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In this episode of The TruthSeekah Podcast TruthSeekah speaks with Ben Pierce of Come&Live! about his upcoming book “Jesus in a Secular World”. Ben talks about how to share the gospel with an audience that doesn’t seem so “preachy” but comes across as genuine and relevant. Ben also speaks about the urgency to get the gospel out and how we should seize every moment as believers to tell people about the wonderful cross of Jesus Christ. Some peoples evangelistic approach can be a bit different or watered down, Ben talks about how to proclaim the message with a boldness and be intimidated by crowds or the opinions of man. If we really believe that we have the answers that a dying world is looking for and we say we have the ultimate truth then why not share with them the truth can set them free? As we discussed in the episode, it is not cool by any means of social standards to be a christian anymore. In many circles you are mocked and ridiculed for having faith or belief in something so bigoted. But if you truly believe that you hold the one thing that everyone is longing for why keep it to yourself?

Ben Pierce is the Director of Come&Live! and is the younger son of David and Jodi Pierce. Come&Live!’s vision is to create a worldwide mission community that will provoke and inspire Christian artists to use their God-given creativity to revolutionize the world for Jesus.

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truth-seeker and/or its affiliates are not responsible any strange phenomena that may occur during or after listening to this podcast which may include the following heightened senses of awareness psychic abilities UFO sightings alien contact time loss out-of-body experiences ringing in the ears ESP lucid dreaming increasing chronicity astral projection telepathy stronger intuition levitation miraculous healings and all remote viewing please be advised to us in our own discussion [Music] [Music] [Music] see Stan [Music] won’t you [Music] you are now locked into the to think about gaming live a juicy calm to the paranormal esoteric and all paying spiritual yo what’s up ladies and gentlemen this is the true seeker podcast I’m your host true seeker and we got a good show plan for you guys today gonna be talking about all things spiritual as always got a great guest lined up for you guys can’t go any further without saying thank you to all of the supporters everybody who is sowing into 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support Suzie lapin Thank You Suzie and Shani Bin’s thank you guys for coming on and joining the fold to support the work you guys mean the world to me thank you from the bottom of my heart huge shout out to some people given that the Dimond body level we got Noah Adam brink and Benny ween and family thank you guys awesome so patron comback sighs true seeker I don’t over there check out the work and yeah thanks for the support without further ado we’re gonna bring in today’s guests we’re gonna be speaking with Ben Pierce from come and live what’s up my brother how are you good man good thanks for having me on be part of this welcome to the podcast man I’m familiar with come and live I’ve seen some of the stuff done with Brian Head Welch Mattie Montgomery or today Tom Green some of those pieces that we’ll put together years ago man and uh definitely have made an impact about being practical with the gospel about sharing your faith and being practical with it so yeah right excited to have you on man I kind of dig into some of those concepts and your your your latest book as well Jesus in a secular world yes we were kind of talking about before we went live it’s kind of like my heartbeat here like I’m a Christian I’m a believer but um in I’m saying the world I deal with other topics that the church may find taboo or they don’t want to address or whatever but we kind of got to be a voice of reason in the midst of the culture man and so that’s why I think it’s important for you know for us to even disgust us about Jesus being in the secular world versus like hey once you come to church let’s bring everybody in the church like right the churches in the world we don’t need to go out we need to bring them into the church or whatever which has kind of been a weird form of evangelism man so what we’ll touch on some of those topics but if you want to start off man just give a little bit of background about what you do and what you’re bringing to the table maybe awesome yeah I am confusing on some levels I was I was born in Amsterdam in Holland so I learned how to speak and write in Dutch before English my parents were missionaries with something called Y way em you through the missions I think people are pretty familiar with that and and so they started there and and you know what the the dominant social movement of the time were the punks and the anarchists you know these rebellious young people who had a negative idea of who God is they saw Church as this oppressive thing of the past they would see these beautiful cathedrals that were just museums you know no one really took it seriously and it was this dead like I said a dead tradition of the past and so my parents were asking God they’re saying how do we reach people who have such an intensely negative idea about who God is you know they’re not coming to the church they’re not being reached in conventional ways and so long story short after a lot of Prayer my parents felt led to start a Bible study on a boat so at they had this boat that was right behind the Central Station in the center of the city if you’ve been to Amsterdam you’ve probably walked by where it used to be and it was this big ole red boat and it was every week punks and crazy people and anarchists and all these sort of underground subcultural people were coming and they were hearing about Jesus and they’re giving their lives to him around the same time my dad started a band called no longer music which as the name would suggest that the heart of it from the very beginning was to use music as a way to go to people just like Jesus to not expect them to come to us but to go to their clubs go to their festivals and lift up the name of Jesus in a relevant way and so this is really the the history and the the lineage that I come from is this sort of life of seeing God move outside of the church trying to be relevant in the way we communicate and then of and then art in music being very much infused into that and so to this day I am a full-time missionary um I have a family I have a two year old and a two month old daughter so life has changed for me a bit in the last few months but this is what I continue to do I’m still no longer music the band still is still happening I just got back from Ukraine where we did a 10-day 8 day sorry 8 shows in 10 days for around a larger 5 month tour that went all throughout Europe I was in Brazil in January we’re gonna be in Colombia in December and it’s basically the same idea how do we lift up Jesus not in the church but outside of the church using relevant language relevant symbols it’s being clear but spoken in a way that people really get it you know really being like Jesus and and so my life’s work is really twofold it’s using art and music to tell people about Jesus and it’s challenging those inside the industry and inside the church community to do the same so with with that being said does the gospel become more practical versus getting someone to make a decision to follow Jesus is it does that make sense at all yeah I mean if I understand you correctly I I think there’s been a lot of backlash and maybe recent years to this sort of like the model of it of life right yeah maybe then maybe again this isn’t a critical statement at all but maybe more than like the Billy Graham model of you know kind of you raise your hand and you write down those decisions and Beaumont’s it’s easy it’s done and it doesn’t go any deeper than that and and I think I think the problem is we we make things too we make things too binary we make things too we create these false dichotomies like well there’s there’s really intentional one-on-one evangelism that is deep and meaningful and then there’s sort of on the other end then you have the sort of surfacy cheap salvation of proclamation to a large setting I think both you see scripturally that both are relevant right Jesus would speak to the multitudes yeah but he would also speak to the individual salvation is never easy right the the decision on some levels to receive what Jesus did for you on some levels but it’s not easy right we then got a walk that out and and choose to be obedient and discipleship is messy right sanctification is messy so salvation should never be presented as this easy God just wants to make you happy God just wants to make your life better no it’s complicated you know and I talked to people after shows all the time and I’m like look I’m my message is not I’m better than you my message is not I’m part of a cool club now where I have it all together that is a lie I’m in desperate need of Jesus today as much as I was the first time I heard about him so we never present an easy gospel but I don’t think you can biblically argue that there’s not a case for man if I’m in like I was my last show on Ukraine we are in front of about 4,500 people i I don’t think you can make a case that it’s that I think men those not accidents knowing that Jesus cares about them knowing that they’ve got this problem this they do bad things like we all do yeah and that only Jesus is hope and and so for me to to not clearly present that from stage because there’s a risk that some people might receive that too superficially I’m willing to take that risk while knowing that also I got to be down on the ground too and make it make people understand that it is an intense lifelong journey does that look like the Billy Graham gospel message though from the stage like here’s the death burial and resurrection of Jesus here’s the gospel he loves you is that what that looks like or does it kind of come you know come across in the music as well and the more in presenting Jesus through the are and through a life laid down type deal or is it you know he loves you and if you want to pray or you know I do we’re very we’re very different I don’t know if there’s probably anything like what we do we a big principle of ours is that you need to show people who Jesus is before telling them yeah and so part of that is of course there’s a lifestyle component to that but as artists we don’t we don’t get to live in front of the audience every day they don’t get to see us right so that’s a little unrealistic but what we do is we use theater and music and fire and video and we combine this all into a very modern-day depiction of the Gospel story now this is nothing like your Ben Hur you know this is nothing you’re gonna recognize it at a church event yeah okay Jesus story that’s very it’s using modern symbols it’s it’s very it’s real it’s honest it’s pretty brutal even but we do this because people are really suffering you know people really are going through hard things so we showed the story of a guy a guy and a girl are created you know which makes sense in the whole creation story and then but then the guy abuses the girl and we use the shadowbox to show this abuse scene which is about as relevant today as it’s ever been right and but then we the the guy representing Jesus in our in our performance he gives his life for the girl he cries over her and he because we show people in the audience you know so many people think that if God does exist he doesn’t care you know he’s indifferent he’s far away he’s like man I don’t I don’t care about what you’re going through and we want to prove that the opposite is true and then ultimately you know he dies and raises just just like the Gospel story and we go from an hour our performance is about an hour and it’s not until the very very end that we finally identify for the audience hey what you’ve seen is God and it’s amazing that after we give people a chance to see it and then as as we begin to share it it’s amazing the difference you see people it’s almost like they go man I I’m not supposed to like this religious stuff but what you’re presenting what you’re showing me this I want ya and it’s because people have such a negative idea of God they have all of this baggage of abuse and and power and and hypocrisy but but I really think the real Jesus people want to know yeah yeah that’s awesome man whenever you’re able to just kind of use the things that are around people I think Jesus did that I think Paul did that using things that they can relate to we see ministries here which in in Tom’s past I’ve been kind of critical myself but there was a there’s a ministry that actually helped with last year but it’s the house of horrors ministry it’s a Christian haunted house and so they give you this scary haunted house get you scared then at the end you there were scenes where you walk through hell and people are in cages and fire screaming I’m sorry get me out of here give me some water you know type of scenes and then didn’t you see the gospel after you kind of gone through there and people have you know talk down about that like you’re trying to you know be like the world to win the world and that’s not how Jesus did it type a deal but it’s effective like they’re presenting the gospel to people who are not gonna come to your church they’re going you know thinking that they’re going to a regular haunted house but at the end they see you know the message of the gospel demonstrated in front of them and so always when we start seeing that it’s always under a lot of scrutiny do you guys get any scrutiny from being kind you know I’m saying kind of like that yeah you do word symbols and you know you guys you guys are kind of complicating it org you know God doesn’t use the art just you know God doesn’t even use music you know saying to share the gospel it’s not biblical those type of things you know all the time and I’ve had so many stories of I’ve come off stage and you know have some you know my heart after after shows I want to talk to someone that doesn’t know who Jesus is that’s where my heart is and and you know some group from the church will come up to me and be like man do you know that you played satanic riffs oh yeah I’m like satanic riffs what you know another time we were just on a TV like a youtube channel in Ukraine and the guy was you know what do you think about people who say that you can’t use rock music to preach and I’m like I don’t I don’t know how people get so far away from Jesus you know who also was criticized Jesus yeah like how do you read that he was an absolute affront to the culture of the day the Jews hated him he was breaking all the rules he was speaking to the the outcasts he was speaking to to women who are marginalized in that culture he was he was breaking all the rules right so how I mean I think it’s about having a real heart for people and and then speaking the right language and and I think the problem is we we add these things because it’s really about control and power I mean that’s what religion is it’s not it’s not about loving people it’s just modern day Pharisees they didn’t care about people I mean I think about the woman caught in adultery right these Pharisees didn’t care about this woman at all in fact they were so harsh their only plan for her was to use her in a ploy to trap and then murder her and and you look at the way Jesus deals with her by contrast he yeah was she did she do a bad thing yeah absolutely do we all do bad things absolutely but but the way he approaches her was is with incredible mercy and so I honestly I got to be honest I have very little patience for modern day Pharisees that go out there and preach man go do something with your lives don’t don’t tell me that these you know David talks about worship God with every loud symbol and clanging drum he’d the fact that we get hung up on these morally neutral things it’s like judge me by my fruit yeah right judge me by what God is actually doing so so yes we deal with that quite a bit um are you familiar with kind of what nf is doing now so NF is easy you know I think he’s under a lot a lot of scrutiny we can look at what he’s done we can look at Lecrae I mean these guys are examples I mean Lecrae went through some dark places you know he’s talked about from branching out and kind of doing what you guys seem to be doing you know not watering the the message down but he’s already got ten albums about the gospel and biblical teachings and I was kind of kind of relating it in more of a place where it’s practical and people can understand it that you don’t have to know that you’re listening to a Christian rap album type deal he’s in and he’s you know stepping out and Christian hip-hop did a lot of people in the churches of just like kind of you know went to the blogs and kind of turned their back on him and stuff like that it took to really put a bad taste in his mouth now about Christian music you know and not wanting to be a part of it things like that um there was a pretty big Christian hip-hop artist just put out some article on Facebook and it’s been cooked like owner on like a tangent about NF performing for 15,000 people and not sharing the gospel and that was in you know you read the comments and everybody saw and if they just tearing into him so is like is he justified with the art speaking for itself with you know I went you know what he’s doing like you know in my art and I went through the struggle I was on pills I was from abusive families but I you know found hope in God and in the Gospels in there you may have to kind of sift through it a little bit but it’s in there are they justified in that would you would you scrutinize the way that they’re doing it or what man I think the the first thing I think this conversation gets complicated because we we create these straw man arguments and we we create these false dichotomies and so you know on one end you have the Christian artist who preaches but there they got terrible music and they don’t care about art and they they they just shove it down people’s throats and the point across but they get their point across but they’re these Bible machines and they just bash people on the head with the Bible and then on the other hand you have the the artists who latent ly refuses to say anything and they’re all strung out and they’ve got all this secret sin in their lives and you know so we create these really narrow categories on either end for the first thing I would say is is this as not a Salvation issue I I don’t think you’re saved by what you do and so I don’t think that what I mean by salvation issue is for NFI I think some people go oh how could you be a Christian or I think that’s that’s horrible it’s not for us to judge that and also God doesn’t love us because of what we do so this is not a value issue either like I am NOT more or less valuable because I I preach or don’t preach right God loves me because of who I am as his son and because he loved he created me and died for me that’s what makes me valuable so with those disclaimers that I don’t think this is a Salvation issue for someone that this makes them saved or not or valued for me I I think it boils down to what what would Jesus do right I mean that the cheesy bracelets right that what ultimately isn’t that what we should be about as authentic followers of Jesus what would he have us do and and I haven’t performed for 15,000 people but like I said I was just on a stage in front of more than 4,000 people and for me it’s like what III think about Jesus’s heart right and he looks out and it says in Scripture that he looked out over the multitude speak and had compassion because they were sheep without a shepherd right and and to me the world is on fire people are being abused people are being allied to secular humanism is is making people believe that their their accidents that they the best they can do is accumulate things and grow old and die and they’re being destroyed people are being destroyed by the lies of the world and if I looked out over a crowd I don’t want to judge him and and that’s forgot to do but if I looked out over the crowd of 15,000 people with all the hurt and all the brokenness and all the destruction and and I knew that that what they really needed yeah do they need to get off drugs sure do they need to clean their lives up sure but Jesus is not just about cleaning up your life that’s a lot of things can clean up your life being forgiven right Jesus is about being redeemed and if I’m looking out over that crowd and I have the answer if I really believe I have the answer I couldn’t not say something yeah I’d have to say something and it’s not about not doing it a good way right it’s not about you’re all going to hell and it’s not about that it’s compassion and it’s understanding your audience and it’s communicating clearly and not every song has to be John 3:16 for them an hour and a half bashing people but would I go that whole hour and a half and leave people with just you should you know this is my struggle and drugs are bad and and anxiety is bad and as relevant as those topics are and as important as those topics are I don’t think I could leave out the most important message in all of history what about and I don’t know how much of it I guess I guess it is but what about if like the excuse for him not to say something would be or even me he knows and not to say something would be the fact that I mean you would you would say something right if you’re if you’re just gonna be out there being open and honest with people I think that’s gonna come up somewhat but what about the answer being in the music like here’s the art listen to the stories listen to the struggle it’s it’s in the art type deal like I don’t have to do the altar call or I don’t have to you know I remember going to concerts back in the day and the venues would say hey you guys can’t preach at our venue and then at the end say hey we won’t let you know even I know you did some stuff with Spencer or whatever but I’ve seen under oath back in the day going to like a vegan atheist venue back in 2002 you know when it wasn’t popular and they the rules were you can’t mention Jesus you can’t preach him right before their last song hey jesus loves you and that’s it but this was before Spencer right and it would just do little stuff like that like hey check out the music check out our work and then there you’re gonna you’re gonna get the gospel from that you know yeah again I think I think it comes down to being honest with your heart and motivation do I think there are unique situations where you need to respect the club owner you know we’ve been in context where the club owners very respectfully said look these are paying customers I really would appreciate if you didn’t do an altar call or anything like that and we’ve respect that you know we’re not we’re not just gonna run people over and you know the good thing about having the gospel built into your show like ours is that people come away seeing the gospel for sure if not hearing it to me it’s about your heart man it’s like okay honestly examine your heart as to why you’re not wanting to speak is it because you really care about people or is it because you’re worried about losing your platform is it because you’re worried about looking foolish is it worried are you worried about not fitting in to the culture around you the gospel is kind of cultural it’s not commercial the cost the gospel is gonna cost you something I mean how they read the Bible where all of our heroes were killed for their faith and then we can think 2000 years later that what Jesus would want for us is to just not rock the boat fit in and just kind of sprinkle in a message why why would that model be laid out for us that man these guys loved people but it cost them it cost them their lives because they were speaking the truth and the gospel is always gonna cost you something and I think if again I’m not gonna judge somebody’s heart yeah it’s not what my job is but what I would say is ask honestly what it would mean to follow Jesus example and honestly look at hard and say why why would I why am I not speaking the most important thing if I got the cure for cancer why am I giving someone ibuprofen instead yeah man who are some of these heroes now who were out there doing and I know you guys have a lot of people you guys work with we actually have mark more on here from Christ far I he was on the podcast Maddie Montgomery like hands down like I would watch footage just to get to the place of him preaching you know what I’m saying in his live concerts and in like secular bars and secular clubs and tours or whatever and giving a clear message a radical message of the cross Maddie Montgomery Tom green from sleeping giant again those are the two people that my mind goes straight to who are some of the heroes out there now who you can applaud who are actually you know they don’t care about their lives anymore it really is about the gospel and they’re doing it in a secular crowd or whatever versus just at churches you know yeah um honestly it’s rare it’s very very rare the time that I kind of stand out all my thunder you called them all out for me no um no we there there are I mean there’s a lot probably that aren’t you know I don’t think it’s coincidental that the ones are out there that are doing it don’t get the we don’t know them and there’s a reason for that you know that’s part of it honestly is that that our culture doesn’t celebrate the gospel and so so it’s not surprising that that is not widely known those that are emerging I mean there are people within our world we work with a russian-speaking band named knew techie they’re they’re really big in the russian-speaking world and and they you know they’ve been part of our ministry now for several years and God is using them I mean they’re going to all these russian-speaking worlds like countries at Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan and Belarus where you cannot preach where the government forbids you to preach and and they’re they’re being bold they’re risking their livelihoods their reputations we have a Brazilian band you know a allegoric that’s doing the same thing they were they’re kind of in the goth underneath underground club scene and they’re going to some heavy hardcore places being open with the gospel and and you know honestly that’s that’s another thing real quick speaking to that russian-speaking band now they live in a time and in a country where they cannot preach I was in Russia and Russia was open for many many years after the fall of the Soviet Union and now it’s closed now the government literally forbids you from preaching on the streets you cannot preach and we were talking to pastors and they were looking at us emotional saying we thought we’d have forever we thought we’d be able to preach forever and we did not take advantage of the time we had and now the doors are closed yeah and and I think about that in our own context we take it for granted in the US as artists that we can speak our minds it may not be like that forever the days of being able to say what we believe that’s really might be closing its changing week it is it is and I’m saying man that’s part of it is urgency factors in to what you’re willing to risk if the message matters enough to you yeah man I remember years ago being in the church and always hearing about this coming persecution that was gonna come and they said that you know it would bring forth revival whenever the persecution came and it was always just this coming persecution as a church or whatever I kind of think that it’s it’s here man I think that uh you know the message is being it’s not popular anymore like it used to could hey you’re Christian me too and you know but now if you admit that you’re a Christian on social media or one you’re gonna get your post and your page throttled nobody’s gonna better see your post if you’re you know you shine like that but you know in in the in in the secular realm and maybe it was like this you know back in the day but you were you were laughed at you were scoff that you were ridiculed for being a Christian you know in the age of wreath reason and in the age that we’re in now of Oh psychology and stuff like that you know yeah no absolutely I mean we always the the phrase that always I tend to find myself using is there used to be a social benefit to believing in Jesus in this country you know is what you know you’d meet your spouse at your church you would find your business partners at church it was you were seen as an upstanding citizen for going to church it was now there’s a social cost you’re you know crazy got it and so that’s why again I don’t think it’s a coincidence artists are going underground because back in the you know even now I think guys like Keith green and Larry Norman were radical even then but it was a different time and there was the Jesus Movement all that now and you’ve got to really be prepared to fight you got to be countercultural and and you’re gonna come under a lot of opposition to preach it’s because now to be a Christian is your anti-scientific you’re homophobic you’re a bigot you’re close-minded yeah you don’t think so but you know exactly and all that and and of course that’s we don’t agree with that but that’s what you get labeled and and it’s hard to emerge especially as an artist under that label yeah well it’s it’s kind of like the persecution is there to kind of weed out the the people who aren’t really serious or whatever like if you’re gonna stand up like you really have to stand up you can’t right I believe in God too you know that really your lifestyle you know says otherwise so if we look at people who are successful at being Christians or successful that being preachers or they make it look cool maybe if that’s a thing right it’s someone who sold out we look at those two names I mentioned we look at Todd white someone like that who’s like you know people are you know I’m saying just drawn to him because there’s there’s no it’s no teeter-totter this is what you get you need it you’re sick you need Jesus I got them for you let’s let’s get it in and he’s unashamed to go out in public and just start singing praises and worships and walking upright random random people and leading them to Christ or whatever so it is like this this line that say okay you know as far as like the lukewarm I’m gonna spew you out of my mouth type deal like if you’re lukewarm everybody knows it but if you love Jesus you really love Jesus right right and well and part of that is again as I mentioned we create these false we create straw man arguments to distance ourselves from that end of the spectrum so it’s like for some reason to be to be open to be is to be unloving or irrelevant or harsh or all these things and so well I don’t want to be any of that as if as if it’s those things are connected when they’re not like how is it’s not mutually exclusive for me to be clear with the gospel and still know how to talk to people outside of the church it’s not mutually exclusive for me to believe the Bible Israel and it says what it says and still love people and still care about people and still show mercy and so I think what happens is we we create these I mean straw men right we create these monsters out of the side we don’t really want because they’re deep down there’s a pride thing and so if I can distance myself from preaching the gospel because to preach the gospel means X Y & Z when it doesn’t then it’s easier for me to justify in my head well I don’t want to be that because you know that those I want to be a you know a loving relevant artist and so of course that means I can’t preach the gospel which to me Jesus was incredibly loving and klett incredibly relevant but didn’t ich didn’t hide what he was about why can’t it be the same for us talking about the straw man man we look at people like I guess I guess Todd why it’s a great example somebody I would call him a hero I’m saying a hero a champion of the faith right now man doing a great work yeah but then again is it’s kind of like the straw man is like to be radical you have to be that and that’s kind of a lie too right like I can’t be the whatever God’s called you to whatever area and not be as vocal we kind of look like you know being a good Christian or being a successful or what God wants you to do is be in another Todd white type deal right that that’s there people watch those videos like man I’m not as how greatest ha why you know I’m saying so they judged themselves among themselves and that’s not it either right no no I course it’s it’s about being who God’s created you to be now there’s a gonna be a narrow road there’s gonna be a cost whatever it is you know I I was recently reading about how in the early church the the early apostles they were saying man we need to find some people that can wait on the tables you know sound it’s kind of seemed like a patronizing way to say it but we can’t deal with all this you know stuff we got to be praying and preaching and we got to find some other people to do this other stuff and what I find very interesting is that Stephen is one of those guys that apparently was supposed to just be waiting on the table the next thing we hear about Stephen he’s out preaching and and preaching with such clarity and such power that he ends up getting stoned you know he ends up getting killed and so to me it’s like man it doesn’t matter what God has called you to don’t it’s not about being someone you’re not it’s not about saying I need to be the next Billy Graham it’s about saying God first of all it’s got to be birthed out of a real relationship right I don’t do things for God because I earn his love that way or because it’s my moral duty or other Christians are gonna shame me if I don’t you know if you look at Isaiah six what happened first first he had a revelation of God’s holiness right he said he was seat he saw the angel right and then he then when he saw how amazing God was what it would do Whitney Houston fool he was God he was so amazing I’m a man of unclean lips yeah you know he puts the coal on his lips then he says what here am I send me but it didn’t like oh god I feel guilty or oh god I see all these examples I probably should be like them here am i send me no he had a revelation of how powerful and amazing God is he had a revelation of how desperately dependent he was and out of that place of brokenness he said God whatever you want do it whoever you made me to be I’ll be that I don’t care if I’m anything I don’t care if I’m nothing just Bews me and then God began to use his life and I think it works the same for us talking about the strongman again or this fake this picture of what a Christian looks like or what evangelist looks like or past or whatever you mentioned why Wham I don’t know how I’m tied to that organization you are or ones that are close to it I’ve got some friends here who have been to why I went why I am also you know coming up as a young Christian myself there was the Masters Commission which was kind of the same thing like a live-in program we sure ain’t train you up disciple you send you out all of this kind of stuff and you lived there and it looked really good I was hungry for God I wasn’t a part of it didn’t have the money at the time alright but I seen I was like man these guys are praying night and day they wake up like their job is to pray to get up to read the word too fast like and to go out and help people evangelize go to travel to churches tell their story and as a young Christian it looked really good like I wanted to do it or whatever and I seen that and then I had friends at the time who was like like now I’m a Masters Commission kind of messes people up I’ve had friends that win and it kind of messed them up like no way bro they get like it’s all God like it’s all ministry you live eat breathe sleep ministry right it’s its it I mean it sounds like a no-brainer um but then dint a couple years later I had some friends I was in a band with they came out of masters Commission this type of Christian bubble that was created for them and there’s this whole time we’re doing ministry were winning the loss and it’s like okay we’re sending you out so that when you graduate from the program like every single one of them thought they were gonna be a missionary they were gonna be a pastor a youth pastor apostle whatever it is they thought they were going out to do ministry and then they went out and they got married and then bills hit him in the face and they had to get a job and they were overwhelmed they didn’t know how to respond like to like I’m saying real life or whatever though I could see how my friends were talking about you know these programs messed him up like I seen my friends go through it it was sad bro it was really sad cuz they didn’t know how to do life they knew how to do ministry but they didn’t know how to do life they didn’t know that the do wasn’t you know the leaders wouldn’t say you’re gonna go out and get a job you’re gonna be back in groceries for two years and you know you’re gonna have a kid I didn’t prepare them for that stuff have you seen anything like that yeah I mean I you know I this has been my life I mean i-i’ve I’m a full-time missionary I’ve supported my you know I’ve been married for almost eight years and I have two kids and by God’s grace were still you know we have a house and we’re doing good and we’re living and yeah you know it’s III don’t want to necessarily criticize another missions organization I think that everyone we’re doing our best you know and and we’re doing our best to prepare I I think that um it’s it’s typical when you’re young to to not know about life right I mean that’s submissions or not you know people have idealistic ideas of what they’re gonna do and then life comes and it’s tough it’s tough to a lot of dreams die once bills hit you know I’m saying a lot of artists find that out the hard way right so so it’s definitely tough and that’s a training issue I think it’s a discipleship issue you look at Paul man he made tents and needed missions I I worked part I worked full-time and admissions then I was part-time and I did missions and I have friends the the guitar Center band probably one of the most talented guitarist I’ve ever met I’m he can play anything that has a note attached to it yeah but he’s been working at a grocery store for the last several years to support his side thing you know it’s about saying god I’ll I’ll do whatever it takes and I trust you and but it’s also you know it also says in the Bible that if you don’t provide for your family you’re worse than a sinner yeah so I made a commitment for example to my wife I said look one of two things is gonna happen either God’s gonna provide through this missions thing or I’m getting a job that’s go ahead like you I guarantee you one has to one or the other I know but like that it sounds funny it’s something but a lot of people say I’m doing this thing and then they don’t see God provide and then their families suffer while it’s never gonna let that happen so so I don’t think I think if God it’s gonna be tough like anything you know if you want to pursue an acting career or a music career it’s gonna be tough you’re gonna have to sleep on your couch sometimes but in the mission’s world and in the following god world I think if it’s supposed to happen you will see evidence but I will start it’ll may be it’s gonna be rough but each step along the way God will continue to show you that he’s faithful that he’s good and I would say to people that are struggling and struggling struggling consider a possibility that maybe God would call you in a different way maybe you should get a job and be Jesus in your workplace um but the option is not to not provide yeah I’m with you on that um I would see people in this this can’t just kind of shook me back in the day for some reason but like I knew I knew youth pastors there were a lot of older than me youth pastors and even pastors as well something would happen you know they get to make a living they get you know they get the they get a paycheck they get salary to preach and teach the gospel and you know for a lot of Christians like that’s the thing to do is to be able to find some type of situation whether you’re a missionary whether youth pastor but somewhere where you can wake up preach the gospel or and you know I’m saying get a paycheck I’ll be provided for whatever but to be able to do it full-time like that’s to go for a lot of Christians it’s sexy it’s enticing I mean and I would see people we’re doing that and then they would lose their job as being the EU’s youth pastor and then they would go get the job at you know as being a bank teller and there was no more gospel in their life they did it as long as there was a paycheck versus the people that I knew and sex that I’ve been involved with that we’re like you know we’re going downtown Friday night we’re preaching from 10:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m. you and we’re not you know we’re like the nobodies or whatever the case is like we eat sleep in and breathe gospel verses to what the pastors who will let go where they had to get a regular job so they just they don’t even write have a hunger for ministry or whatever I remember they would maybe they were hurt you know from being that go I’m not sure but yeah again I think it’s if we’re not careful if you’ve been a believer for for five minutes you will very quickly be tempted to become professional at it you become just you know the language you know the how to do it and yeah you know and I think that’s not what it’s about there’s a lot of them out there too man that’s the bit that’s the bad thing right there is but I look at myself first and I say Jesus what let don’t let that happen to me it’s I mean think about like I don’t know if you’re if you’re married or not but sorry yeah but like a marriage it can your relationship with your wife can become very mechanical if you’re not careful you know and it’s no longer love it’s just it’s just sort of a thing you’re doing you you you’re functioning roommates and you learn how to pay the bills together and maybe even raise a family together but there’s not a dynamic intimate personal relationship there that’s something that has to be cultivated and worked on and developed and and that’s the place that you then do things for God I think so many people make the mistake that they think being a Christian is about the things you do I’m defined by what I do so yeah I go to church I you know we and we’re good at we’re we’re good at knowing that it’s not like very ritualistic you know so we’re it’s not about saying certain words we’re not you know like like Catholics or something like that but were we still do that we still make it religious we still XY and Z has to be accomplished for me to be a Christian when I think it’s an inside-out process we are in love with Jesus he permeates our life he it spills over and so it doesn’t matter you could put me you could put me in an island I’d preach to the trees you know it’s just who I it’s in me it’s the it’s the most excited it’s like I got this friend I got to introduce you to he’s awesome I I talked to him all the time as opposed to I’m not gonna introduce you to someone that I barely know that I’ve heard about yeah and I sometimes attended a weekly meeting about him you know it’s not gonna work it I think it has something to do with authenticity and it’s just something that’s kind of I’ve been you know coming to terms with over the last year now of being able to see people being authentic with with everything with their flaws with their shortcomings with what they like or whatever the case is and being okay with that not saying that they’re okay in their sin but they’re you know saying that they’re not perfect or they have other hobbies outside of preaching the gospel that make them a regular person or something like that or they like to have a drink or whatever whatever the case is everybody’s different but in in in like church culture they you kind of it’s like a you have to conform to the other people around you and I guess a perfect example would be going to church on Sunday morning and you know that you’re you’re being greeted when you come in the door hey brother how would you have the Lord what’s the Lord doing in your life and how are you and you you kind of learned the phrases hey I’m blessed and highly favored man I’m the head and not the tail like I that was a type of culture we were in and church and stuff but verses like coming into the church like man I don’t even know if I believe anymore like been up drinking all night I need God in my life like you can’t really be opening authentic because you’re gonna be judged by these people but being authentic man in whatever that looks like whatever it is it’s like taking the mask off which is the role of the hypocrite taking that off and and quit acting like I’m this guy or I’m the believer I have questions I believe in things biblically that you don’t I believe in things that if I’m open about what I believe in is gonna get me kicked out of your church all of these things but when I started being authentic because I’ve seen other people doing it they were free man like they were they were oh god still loved them because they didn’t fit the cookie cutter mold or their theology was jacked up or whatever the case is and being okay with that man there was a freedom that came with that do you think it do you think what what we’re talking my house tested has to deal with authenticity yeah absolutely but I what I will say is that that I do think that God has I think we need to be careful because the spirit of our age is relativism the spirit of our age is the postmodern deconstruction of any truth that that you know I can believe whatever I want again it’s similar to our conversation about rock-and-roll it’s like what she has never had a problem with a style of music or a date you know you’ve got to look a certain way or you’ve got a you know of course there’s that element of it not adding things to God that he never added to himself there’s also an element of not not being someone we’re not like Jesus you know it the fact that that God did died for me knowing that I would continue to sin that I should hate sin I should not want it but but I will I’m gonna I’m gonna keep sinning and Jesus still loved me and died for me knowing that I would continue to be rebellious all the days of my life I mean it before that kind of God I should just be Who I am but for me that the whole issue of sanctification of becoming like Jesus I kind of look at it like Jesus has a great plan for me for everything for every part of my life it’s like he designed the car right and he I’m the driver of the car but he knows every part of it how it should work how it shouldn’t work and we kind of view sin even as Christians is like God trying to inhibit our freedom to me God designed me so when he says put gas in the car not coffee you know that’s because it’s that’s how it’s gonna run that’s how it’s gonna be free and alive and and so when you say freedom I say freedom is found in living how Jesus calls me yeah I’m not I’m not going against that book unless that’s what it looks like you know what I’m saying like would you rather the sinner you know we hear it in church all the time I rather you just be open with your sin and not hide it or whatever the case is versus you coming in the church and hiding your sin above about all of this kind of stuff because I think it kind of hinges on that as like if you’re trying to be someone that you’re not you know Jesus has done the work and I’m not talking about really sin issues when I make the example I probably am talking more about theology types or stuff or and if I’m mentioning theology the perfect example like you just said the rock and roll or the gospel rap you’re trying to use rap to win the world you’re trying to be like the world to win the world there’s weird I’m in the Bible Belt man like there’s a church on every corner and they all they all have the absolute truth and the other ones wrong or off on some things that’s really weird to even have the audacity to think that but but it’s there but um to be to be okay to be different to be okay you know and and not act like you have it all together or act like you know everything right that’s a big thing in the churches man like I’ve seen like we have to act like we have it all figured out and we have to have an answer for everything because if you don’t then the people will go looking for the person who does right you know you know people because people are looking for truth people are looking for but to pretend like we have it all figured out and we like this is the final say-so the final doctrine on a biblical issue that’s kind of even up in the air and and all those other churches believe different things about that same thing right just to be okay with that because there’s like just just weird contention there I mean I know you’ve been in church culture you know it like just like you mention I’m not like the Catholics type deal like that that type of deal um you know every everybody feels like they have it you know everybody needs to be one to our theology or have you haven’t been there with with other it’s different with the world it’s different with the gospel versus the the Christians kind of going yeah well well I again I think I think that they’re the problem is again a similar what I said that if we don’t define any truth if we don’t accept that there’s anything we can agree on then we’re we’re in a hopeless infinite regress post-modernism and we there’s nothing then we might as well just scrap the whole thing and we can all just kind of go about our business so I I think there are essentials and again I and I said the Catholic thing only in the sense that I meant that people associate Catholicism with the highly honest loving Catholics that put shame in their devotion to God so that’s not that I didn’t want to for that to be heard in the wrong way but yeah what I mean is that that um there are essentials and I think we need to wrestle with what those are I think there are some critical non-negotiables yeah um and then man there needs to be some serious grace with the rest of it honestly and for me there’s a lot of things I can get mad about there’s a lot of political issues I can get mad about peripheral thiol out theological issues that I can get mad about but honestly when I read Paul I I just got this um when you read him there’s just this singular devotion to the most important thing I profess to preach nothing but Christ in him crucified I consider all else trash compared to this right so there was the singular devotion it’s kind of like man I life is short it’s almost like he knew you know it’s almost like someone whispered in his ear how little time you had huh because he just made his life and everything else was expendable it’s like man we’re gonna go after it if this is you know I just read about how he has Timothy circumcised as an adult because that’s going to make it easier for them to preach to the Jews I mean I wouldn’t want to be Timothy in that that exchange even imagine that but it’s like he was so devoted to the the basic idea that that Jesus is the way the only way that we that we are not saved by anything but by grace right these these critical core things and I think we do have to come to an agreement about man and then everything else my even we wasted our time I mean that was with was like you just saying that like I feel like you’re being authentic versus someone who’s just repeating because they know how to you know go through the motions they’ve seen you evangelize and let me do it or whatever the case is when someone’s sharing that truth that you just shared authentically like that’s that’s where the power comes in because you really leave it and you really have experienced it or whatever and you can you can’t give me you can’t give any listener anybody anything that you don’t tangibly have and I think it all comes out of your relationship with God like it’s like genuine you know what I’m saying and so being authentic with that and I have people who like that you know I’m saying their dreams are to be a famous rapper their dream is to own their own carpentry business or whatever and I have other friends who their dream is to be a preacher you know I’m saying a full-time preacher and and and and win their City to Christ like that’s their hunger and their goal and it’s authentically gonna come out of them like it’s their heartbeat man with their passion and about and I don’t and and it’s not you know I don’t I don’t think the carpenter is wrong I don’t think that the rapper is wrong right if that if they’re if they’re pursuing it you know obviously we all need Jesus right we all need love we only need grace and we need the gospel but there’s this thing like if like people who aren’t doing it like you or doing it like me it’s like hey this is the way it’s done even just sharing the gospel in your talk we’re talking about music and again coming from the Bible but we’ve heard it all like you can’t use this you can’t use that you can’t and I’m like kind of like going back to what we were talking about at the beginning like not debating it’s like look you wanna bet you want to bet you can’t use rap to preach the gospel you want to bet but you have the people who are not doing it telling the people who are doing it how to do it right you know what I’m saying it’s about again it’s about control that’s what religion is we’ve had Pharisees from the very beginning we’ll have Pharisees till the very end it’s because for them it’s about a club that they can they can determine based on certain parameters who’s in and who’s out right and so the reason why they have to get away from the gospel is because the gospel is the most inclusive thing in the world people say it’s exclusive it’s not you don’t have to be rich you don’t have to be poor no matter what you look like it doesn’t matter if you’re educated or not educated you everyone is who anyone can can come and and and all before the feet of Jesus and say I need you save me there’s no no one it’s it’s exclusive in the sense that it’s the path it’s the right and only path but it’s inclusive in the sense that there is no you don’t need to do anything you don’t need to add anything you just need to come as you are and admit where you’re at where you’re at and Jesus will will reach out and grab you um yeah yeah I think ultimately my heart is look if your sincere desire is to know Jesus – to read your word to read God’s Word to look at the life of Jesus and say how did he live how can I live like him if that’s your sincere desire then I I firmly believe that that’s gonna manifest in whatever calling you have so if you’re the carpenter then man you’re gonna be the carpenter that’s gonna be bugging all your carpenter buddies and tell them about the most part right but but they’re gonna but I mean you hear stories about that all the time and that guys that were so but there are also the guys that are there for you and you’re down there also the guys that are slipping you you know a check when you’re when you’re down and out there you hear stories of I think we’re gonna get to heaven we’re gonna be amazed by the who the heroes are you know we’re gonna think they’re the the cool visible guys that are on podcasts but really they’re gonna be the invisible guys that were serving loving and being Jesus – no audience whatsoever yeah um and so to me it’s a it’s that’s what it’s about be be authentic want to love and follow Jesus and man I kind of feel like the rest of this stuff’s gonna figure itself out yeah I do too man we’re talking about you know we you book Jesus in the secular world I think most of these topics are kind of what we’ve touched on is kind of like yeah you know it’s out of me I can’t help ya I think I mean I think we’re still on topic really um I I was sent a chapter and uh there was an emphasis towards the end of the chapter the chapter on on prayer and how prayer is so important in an individual’s life with all of this stuff we’re talking about right no matter who you are which person you are in these people we were talking about but prayer is essential for each and every one of us were like what’s the what’s the big thing for you with with prayer man why’s it so important I think for me that well well prayer I mean what what is what constitutes a relationship talking and listening right and so prayer is is half that battle if you’re if you’re not talking to God you’re not in relationship with him so I think for starters it’s about that having that relationship with God I think also it relates to understanding as a Christian where the power comes from I think so often in in the Christian world were we we kind of address things issues in our own lives or the lives of others or the world in very practical ways kind of like business world does you know what’s what’s the strategy what’s the plan okay let’s let’s lay it out how are we gonna deal with this issue let’s come up let’s get together and let’s brainstorm the next thing and and what I’ve seen it the evidence I’ve seen in my life is that when God changes things it’s because of his power not because of our actions God changes things when he moves I mean it Paul even talks about it he says men are not convinced by human wisdom but by God’s power and here’s a guy who was brilliant I mean he could argue anyone out of their position he knew he knew your stuff better than you did yeah but he but he says look none of that’s gonna matter if God doesn’t show up he’s not then then they’re not gonna be changed I play I mean I’ve played hundreds and hundreds of shows I’ve seen thousands of people radically changed but I know it’s not because the music was so great or the I used the perfect combination of words when presenting the gospel know is because God chose to inhabit what we did and reveal himself in a powerful way and it says in Hebrews 11:6 that God rewards those who seek him with an earnest heart that if we would seek him he will reward us and I believe the reward is his power moving in us and through us and that’s why prayer for me is is so non non-negotiable hmmm yeah kind of pulls you out of the monotony or like like you tell my religion like the religious thing without the Holy Spirit it is disgusting man it is so nasty and I like refused to be a part of without the presence of Jesus right worse like you know I can’t I can’t do it I won’t do it it gets crazy man so that’s what it is just talking about like the relationship you’re talking about having a relationship with your spouse or or whatever like you kind of know each other intimately you know you know you have what you have a schedule right you know it’s time to cook dinner you know it’s time to get the kids ready Bob about all of this kind of stuff but there’s something about just being open being authentic even with that spouse letting them know that you care about them and what you your fears everything right and just having that relationship and this the same way with the father it’s the same way with crisis is like being in that intimate relationship and it I think it I think we’re called the Bride of Christ for a reason I really do think it it you know mirrors that yeah an example of the marriage yeah and and and again I mean for me I’m a very kind of a restless active maybe overly ambitious person and so my trap is to start to believe that what I do defines Who I am yeah and man the simple act of just you know going on to some park and just seeking the Lord it’s it goes against every quote-unquote productive bone in my body I’m like I got I could be doing this I got to be right now gotta be yeah and and and yet to just still all of that and to say no no this is who I am this is what I need this is what satisfies me and and in western thinking we’re way too transactional with the way prayer works we view prayer like I give to God something and then he gives something back to me right it’s very transactional but imagine if you treat your wife that way it’s like well I talk to my wife because I either need to give something for her or she needs to give something to me that’s why we talk that wouldn’t be very deep right sometimes you just talk it’s just it’s about just being together it’s about that intimacy of just hanging out like this is my dad this is who I’m supposed this is how I this is Who I am as a person this is how I truly satisfy the longings of my heart and I don’t find that in anything you know ultimately everything I do even the Christian thing I do don’t really give me life like my just personal walk with God that’s what that’s everything that’s the that’s the foundation that’s why I can even love my wife the way I should that’s why I can love my kids the way I should that’s why I can even reach anybody is because first I am a son of God he loves me man I get to I get to be with him he gets to he speaks to me like what the heck the the creator of the universe actually knows and speaks to me he’s real and powerful and then it man I I say to myself every day let my measure of success be that that I am more like Jesus at the end of this day than I was before that’s it look my prayer is that if someone would meet me after having not seen me for a year they wouldn’t say man I saw you know you did all those songs in his podcast and you wrote all this I would want them to say man you you’re different like you you are you know again I’m not saying it stroke my ego but I would love for them to say man you seem more like Jesus than you did a year ago you love peace joy patience kindness goodness faithfulness self-control you’re more of all that man that is that’s cool and that’s for me a measure of success I’m with you on that I think that’s I mean that’s the only thing that uh that they’re like I judge people off of especially the people who come with the book or come with the religion or come with the great ideas on how to do it I try to judge their fruit and you know I’m saying my life changed when I started doing that I started having more peace in my life and and you know and I think it’s the way Jesus told us how to judge as well you know judge no man before his appointed time or judge nothing before its appointed time and to judge people by their fruit the fruit can’t lie like it’s gonna it’s gonna come out so I judge all people by that man and and I like to go where the fruit is I like to be around people who you know bear fruit you know I’m saying and and and you can’t lie eventually it’s going to come out it may take a few weeks may take a little while but if you hang around somebody long enough that that fruits gonna come out of what they really believe you know yep ya know and then for me like nothing greater for me then you know after a show just a few weeks ago you know these couple of girls came out to me and they’re both in tears and they said you know all my life all I’ve ever been told is that I got to earn God’s love that he’s I felt that he’s far away that I’m never gonna be enough man thank you so much for coming and telling me that Jesus is my dad that he loves me that I can know him I people can say what they want about me but that that is it that’s what I that’s yeah that’s what I know God has put me here to do and I could give you we could spend the next of how God has moved in that way not not because I’m good yeah because I’m perfect but because God uses people that just is being an active man like that’s the fruit dude that’s the point in it’s two people who who hopefully most likely you know they’re not gonna stop afoot in the church like that the church is good at that model whatever you’re called to but I think I really do think it’s time to be radical I do think it’s time to you know kinda cut to kind of step out and whatever it not because it’s sexy not because it’s different or I want to win these people you got to know what God has called you to man because it could be hard right if you’re not ready it is not could be and I don’t think there’s actually that much sexy about it i yeah I promise you you want well there’s people who are watching this they watch what I do they watch what you’re doing in like I want to do that right I want to do that it’s like oh do you really want to do you really want to do it type deal you know it looks last year whatever the case is but they don’t know the scrutiny they don’t know the other right off like I had to do hit me up the other day and was like you know and I’m saying god bless us too but he said I wish I could be like you and sit at home and talk to beautiful women on podcasts all day like that’s what I do sit at home and talk to beautiful women on Pocket they don’t see what you um said what actually goes into it they don’t see that the majority though women are old with like older women and but they’re they’re beautiful women too you know I’m saying they just whatever man but anyway it’s it’s the fruit of it too to kind of know that it’s worth it and to know that it’s working I don’t flash those messages you know I like to talk about them and if we do so I’ll talk about them we’ll start tearing up you know what I’m saying because it’s kind of cost it’s not it cost a lot it’s you know the whole the whole term come and live you know the term before that come and die to find that you may truly live man and and you have to die to your desires that I think it’s for everybody who’s following Christ and they have a calling or they have a vocation or they want to do something it costs man it really does and even it looks cool like this is the polished up version like what people are seeing or whatever they don’t they haven’t seen the tears they haven’t seen the ridicule the laughter the finger-pointing the emails the all kinds of weird crazy stuff that we’ve put up with you know what I’m saying yeah no I I don’t have to talk to the old man when you come off stage it’s like brother you need to reconsider what you’re doing the old man it was like a I’ve had some ridiculous stuff you have no idea oh my good mean I yeah but then I mean you know we’ve we’ve preached in Muslim countries I’ve we’ve had our power cut who’s been followed by the secret police I bet some crazy dudes or a cell phone at my head one time right in the middle of when I was talking I mean you you know we’ve had we’ve slept in rough places at cars break down you know it’s just but again it’s so trivial I read the examples of Paul and I’m going you know I was just reading today and he’s you know led to this town and he’s cast a demon out of a girl next he know he’s beaten and thrown into a prison I’m like I got nothing to complain about but there is a cost and man we live in an age of comfort and we don’t like cost we like pleasure especially you know pleasure that’s quick and easy but we don’t like costs in or out of the church but I’m telling you like you said when you are willing to give up your life that’s when you find it and man I’d rather be I’d rather be challenged than bored and there’s a lot of Christians I know that they got their hell insurance but they’re not living the life they were meant to live yeah and that’s gonna cost something yeah you know what just recently my whole dichotomy was changed when it comes to that I believe that there’s things that we all deserve universally for being sons and daughters of God but as far as like maybe on the the cusps of pursuing your dreams or having a happy marriage having a successful marriage that other people envy that other people wish they could have these things like that that are successful in your life I think I was saying for a long time I think everybody deserves to do what they love for a living everybody deserves to have their dreams but I read reading a book and it was just a little excerpt on in a book and it says that you know that stuff’s not promised you have to work for what you believe in to have a successful marriage you don’t deserve anything to have a successful marriage you have to do the work you have to you know have those times of intimacy of just the conversation hey this is what I’m going you know I’m saying what is your day like cuz you go through the motions and stuff and that doesn’t work out like if even like having a successful podcast having a successful band you got to show up for practice like you got to be on the phone with venues there’s so much you have to actually learn how to play your instrument I guess it could be just like a pipe dream you don’t deserve what you earn and what you work for a man and that we’re not understood that that there’s a cost right everything it’s not free it’s not you don’t just get to show up and grab the microphone and start performing or doing the podcast or whatever they you know blood sweat and tears into this kind of stuff right yeah no for sure or not but I mean that that’s that’s just that’s just a human principle honestly I think that nothing is nothing of valued is done without extraordinary effort and sacrifice I mean you look at Olympic athletes and they they refrain from eating anything they work crazy hour you know and a lot of them are doing jobs on the side to make it happen I mean you’re you want to do something extraordinary it’s called extraordinary for a reason yeah again I I I will say though that that what makes Jesus different than sort of yourself help guys out there is that that ultimately the foundation of it is again as I keep saying that relationship with Jesus and and I like I said at the beginning will me know at the beginning but I said I can fall into a trap of ambition becoming an idol I want to do all this thing and I don’t know working hard but but you know there’s almost sometimes a sadder reality getting to the top of the mountain realizing nothing’s there you know I mean because sometimes it’s almost like at least you know you see those bands that are forever trying to make it and man that you make and almost keep you going in a weird sort of way and then you you see these people at the top of the game and they’re killing themselves yeah and and so ultimately it’s like you get there first things first you get your foundation right man that Christian should be the most creative the hardest-working the most disciplined a most excellent all of that stuff in the right order you get that first thing first and then then by all means be good Stuart don’t waste your life yeah well it’s just you know trying to balance the two because we come in into many you know church circles where the grace thing is free you didn’t do anything to earn it it’s given to you it’s a free gift of of grace of salvation or whatever the case is like you don’t say it but then it cost you like you know you come into this relationship with Christ and it’s free so it’s like hey everything’s free I didn’t you know you don’t have to work we have to cease from dead works we have to cease from trying to be ambitious or whatever which there’s there’s you know good things in that stuff like it’s not all bad to be a workaholic I think people who aren’t successful you have to put in the work is you don’t just show up though it would announce what your relationship with Christ that’s with your regular job there you have to get up early for to go to work to be successful there and to keep your job like you have to work at what you love and what you want to build and cultivate right yeah but again I mean again the Salvation side of it is you know we have a faith of tensions you know apparent paradoxes I talked about that quite a bit in the book but you know grace is free and yet there’s all sorts of talk of you know like Paul uses all of this military and athletic language to describe beat your body into submission and run the race to win and you work out your faith and fear and trembling and it doesn’t freedom mean easy right there’s there’s there is a it’s there still a narrow road after that and again like I keep pointing out look at all the early apostles disciples early church fathers you know mothers look at all of the examples in history a lot of them suffered and died so it’s it’s there is a there is a narrow road and there’s a difficulty to it but it’s again it’s not a value thing or a salvation thing and of course of we can’t opening up the can of worms of how we’re to our choices and God’s sovereignty interact and I don’t think we want to go there other than to say I believe both matter and we have to live in light of the of both truths yeah and then and then with all of that holding that in check because being productive is great but like I said if you’re not careful production becomes your God and now you find yourselves you know I I get very frightful of the admonishment in scripture where it says god I did this for you I did that for you I and and yet Jesus says what depart from me I never knew you yeah that’s a scary thought it’s a scary thought that man if we saw those people and that resume what would you and I think we think man they’re they’re killing it yeah look at all that they’re doing and yet Jesus said very you know it’s not a very popular thing to say a very palatable but he said get away from me I don’t know who you are so you better make knowing Jesus your goal and worried about the doing after that you look at like revelations or whatever one in two words you know we have like the Christian heresy hunters and they’re exposed and false prophets and making sure everybody’s doctrines on point and stuff like that we didn’t we look at revelations one or two I say look you did good exposing those who were false apostles and and indigo but I got this one thing against you you left your first love and that’s what he’s like rebuked and everyone’s that you left you’re like you you want you were going through the motions and you you you know you left the intimacy of it and that is scary it’s not fun and you have to check yourself you have to cease from the works and bring yourself back and kind of just take that breath and say okay like you know when’s the last time I got into the scriptures ones up you know not to learn but to really spent like an intimate thing with God right and in fact you notice that’s that’s a thing right – you ain’t getting in to the scriptures – to learn and to prove points and to prove people wrong verse like okay God like teach me again you know that those type of things and if it ever gets away from that man then it gets into dead works and it’s not fun it gets into religion you know empty religion yep yeah you can you can detach from the vine for a season but you will eventually wither and die I mean that’s just the truth so that’s my that’s that’s what I pay for myself that’s what I work at is to stay dependent this stay to stay attached and then let the fruit speak for itself yeah that’s it that’s deep man just understand like you saying earlier like still needing Jesus still needing the grace of Christ today yeah as much as you need it you needed it on day one when where he found you at right yeah especially when there’s years in between that that gap there you know and you kind of forget the person that you was but you go back and you understand that man I still need him today because you know I think it’s okay it’s scary but it should be there’s this you know you could you could do one thing and kind of blow everything you can you can you can you can ruin it by doing one thing off and that’s why I think that this walk is delicate that we need you know because people think that you you reach a level where you’re beyond reproach and I’m good I’m successful on this but you could do one thing you could I mean we look at the world I’d like to talk about Roseanne you can send out one tweet and tear destroy everything that you’ve built your with your whole life or whatever and that’s the same thing with we get there’s just weird place if we get too comfortable with God or we don’t need him like we used to we’re still uh you know dependent it’s a weird place to be there he’s so spiritually strong to be able to work miracles to pray for people and things happen and you’re doing all of this beautiful stuff and there’s just a thority that you have in Christ but then again on the other hand you’re still broken and I still need him as much as I did they want it’s a weird dichotomy there anything you become more aware I I thing God’s goodness is so infinite beyond our comprehension that you don’t become it doesn’t grow proportionate to your understanding of God I think it’s inversely proportionate I think the more the more you understand God who God is despite your progress you become actually more aware of your penance that certainly might been my experience um but again to go to your point of I I don’t think that our walk with God is a tightrope at the same time I do think that that God is good and and I think in the same way that from the outside looking in a marriage looks like it just imploded overnight but the truth is it didn’t it was years in the making now again are there exceptions to that role sure maybe ministries and stuff too though something that’s out there in the forefront we’re like oh you did that you’re done you know tight deal right because many times that was the culminating event many of years of compromise um you know was marriage it could be just being weak man putting yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time and not and not just walking away you know what I’m saying marriages a minute I’ve seen I’ve been in this thing a long time and I’ve seen I’ve seen so many ministers all right sexual perversion of sexual I’m saying immorality some woman came up who is hotter than their wife Dave their wife has had a couple kids and they’ve been with him 20 years and there’s another young lady in the church and they say it’s they fall for it you know they trade the wife in and well you look at David right yeah I mean that but again what was sort of the key principle there I mean he he was supposed to be at the battle right it said it in the summertime when Kings are normally at war mm-hmm he was chilling in the palace yeah right and what does that say well he he thought that he had earned it that was done he was he didn’t have to continue to be in that place of dependence and with his brothers accountability he didn’t need to be doing he kind of thought now I’m cool I’ve done this you know I’ve done this now 12 years I know you’ve done it for a while I’ve been around people that have for a while you’re never done there’s no retirement in Jesus and and I you you need to keep dependent and and and keep reliant and and the second you think now I’m cool I’ll skip this battle that’s when Bathsheba you know decides like I don’t know what she’s doing on the rooftop I mean maybe there’s a cultural thing but it seems a little bit cruel but either way would that’s when that happens right that’s when you’re you’re doing and he was looking to he knows what he knew what was happening on the rooftops that’s a man whenever you’re dealing with you know I’m saying sexual sin or sexual perversion you know and it’s we look at you know Paul he touched you all these different keys and ways to overcome this and beat that and overcome this but when it comes to sexual immorality he says flee youthful lust run from it don’t even entertain it cuz you man it’s sad bro but you know and I’m not saying walking your like you I’m saying your salvation I don’t think you lose your salvation because you you you know there’s people preach that I’ve sat under that kind of teaching or if you do something like that then if you die you’re going to hell type deal or whatever but I think it’s if it if it’s if it’s worth something to you fight for it if it’s worth something to you protect it and I think that our our faith is that you know I’m saying that the fact that so God as a father you know and not let anybody take that from you or let anybody coax you out of that or a change your your mind or what you believe or what you can and can’t cannot do you know I’m saying there is Liberty there right but at the same time I’m saying this freedom that we’re talking about but but there’s these core principles and core things that if you get get away from you know not that somebody’s gonna you know I’m saying just uh you know I’m saying somebody’s gonna put you out of the church but you you you a mess yourself up if you go outside of these these principles right right and then again that comes back to what I was saying before which is to follow God and his design is not some arbitrary he’s not just some mean dictator who says follow these rules they don’t mean anything but I want you to and I’m in charge he it’s for your good it’s for your good you’re playing with fire like you said it’s like man it might look good but it is it is a moment of pleasure and a lifetime of regret and and God put things in place for a reason and it’s not just an arbitrary divine rule it’s also for your greatest joy and good and to follow him as freedom and and I you know I often talk when I people talk to people after shows I say look you the world tells me you guys are free right the world tells me that to do whatever you want is freedom I don’t see a lot of free people out there I see people that are being destroyed by their ideas of sexuality by their ideas of of money and and materialism I see people being destroyed and it’s I almost never have a non believing person disagree with me almost never almost always do they say Yeah right we’re being did like this stuff ain’t working it’s not working for us we demand our freedom but we recognize it’s not working for us and and that’s a that’s the sad lie that people live under Ben who’s the who’s the book for man is it for Christians wanting to share their faith and kind of get out there or is it the book well a couple things first of all unfortunately the book won’t be out for a little while so the timing of this is funny but hey I’ve appreciated the conversation either way it’s Jesus in the secular world reaching a culture in crisis that the heart of it is for anyone honestly it’s for not matter if you’re sixty or or just a kid in high school it’s I want to use my life to reach those outside of the church i I don’t I see this growing divide between secular culture and the church bubble I don’t want to be a part of that I want to be like Jesus in the world out of the world but relevantly sharing who he is and it’s basically just my life illustrating these principles that I’ve learned about seeking God about having a broken heart about learning to speak the right language about having the courage to act and and so that is that’s the basic basic idea behind the book is for anyone its it will be eventually like I said about mid-november is when it comes out it’ll be anywhere that books are sold but there are some other things other ways that you can engage with this kind of material we also have a podcast part of come and live called provoke and inspire it’s it’s are similar to probably what you’re doing similar to what we’ve been talking about how do you live radically for Jesus outside of the church it’s it’s four of us it’s Chad Johnson for former A&R guy for tooth and nail myself my dad David Pierce who’s been doing radical missions for 30 years and then our international sorry our European director Luke Greenwood he’s from from the UK so he sounds really smart because he has a British accent but it’s yeah provoke and inspire similar to you it’s iTunes everywhere else otherwise Steiger org ste i ger / j SW that is how you can I’m just actually looking that up to make sure but that’s how you can find out more about the book as it’s kind of getting closer to being done have you heard the excuse not to evangelize outside of the churches that there’s lost people in the church to like they need Jesus in the church I think everyone needs Jesus I think there are lost people there are plenty of lost people who come to church I think it’s a calling thing it’s not it’s not you know what I mean it’s like it’s not these aren’t supposed to be in contradiction it’s like we’re all different bought members of the same body some of us are gonna be called in the church some of us out a bit yeah so it’s a calling thing to me yeah there was a like I came out of the gospel rap scene and stuff and uh it was always like those guy I was like you don’t say eventually it was like okay if you if you guys want to win the loss like you gotta go we’re lost people are like I gotta go downtown we had to go to the club scene we gotta you can perform in the clubs and we we did that and we were scrutinized what you know all this kind of stuff we’ve preached we’ve done worship songs and bars and all that kind of stuff you know and uh you know and there was always those people to say you know there’s the lost people in church so we’re just gonna stay in church but I found out like a lot of times and this was just me being open authentic with what I was going through at the time was like people just want to you know deal the applause of menacing intoxicating right so therefore you don’t want to go where you’re not wanted it’s comfortable to stay and is it just changed so much from doing like gospel the gospel scene where we could just somebody would bring us out to their church and there’s five hundred kids there versus we’re gonna go to the clubs and we got to hand out flyers and get a crowd and there’s 30 people you know what I’m saying and so we had to do that and it was just a big difference there man but we’ve heard that a lot that there’s you know lost people in the church who uh that’s what we need to win yeah hello again it’s a nice part about your motivation and do what God’s called you to do I guess somebody’s got to win them cuz I guess they’re not lying you know what I’m saying yeah but I think it changed was like versus like uh you’re just an entertainer for the youth group kids like we need somebody to entertain them for the pizza party and stuff right right it only goes that’s only fun for so long yeah man hey bro I appreciate you coming on the show man I really enjoyed this conversation and look forward to speaking with you again man thank you so much and keep up the good work brother yeah no problem again if the book unfortunately won’t be out for a while otherwise provoking inspires our podcast thanks for having us on and is that a unicorn you got in the back there up there other side oh that’s my wife’s a little pony from yeah yeah we got a bunch of great just think that’s what I was gonna ask us you cuz you saying that I you you guys use symbols and I’m like I got a lot of symbols in my room I got a lot of symbols tattooed on me and things I like symbols – I like redeeming symbols redeeming the the the rainbow you know what I’m saying Rudy and the triangle like all kinds of things like that you’re not talking about those kind of symbols all right you mean meaning more of like the allegory or the archetype or the stories symbols like that how to communicate the truth of Jesus not using sheep and fishing because unless you’re in rural country most yeah the runaround sheet so you know it’s just that basic stuff but maybe we could we could have the simple conversation on the next time oh yeah are you are you familiar with the hero’s journey I’m not Joseph Campbell look that up on your own but that’s about the archetype of playing out the role of Jesus in in movies in books and all of these other places as well star wars you know what I’m saying stuff like that that we’ve seen the Lord of the Rings and stuff like that so so you got man the hero’s journey by Joseph Campbell will do I been take it easy brother yeah I appreciate it my piece being Campbell from come and live really really cool guy man been a fan of their work for a while seeing those videos that they put together for Mattie Montgomery from the band or today sleeping giant Brian head well just a lot of cool stuff a lot of cool evangelism stuff and then some really cool practical stuff like I said about being a father there’s a really good video they did about you know being a father I met in Montgomery who’s a really cool guy ran into him a couple weeks ago at a concert as well so yeah good stuff man I lost everybody holding us down in the chat right now holding us down in the chat live on YouTube Christie folks it’s like Brent and uh Kelly it’s the names I see right now let’s see Christie says good ones she says Philippians two 12 and 13 do everything without murmuring and disputing all things are done for God’s good pleasure amen yeah there’s a place I like I like the fact that he talked about the the urgency that Paul had right this urgency to get the gospel out the urgency to let people know you know and they were like forsaking marriage they were forsaking all types of stuff because it was urgent to get out there and then when you understand that urgency that these guys had and then we look at some of the preterist stuff like we’ve had on with Rania Dawa that they knew the end was coming like they knew supposedly it’s been 10 that it’s been 2,000 years since those guys were here right 2,000 years ago but they talked about this urgency that the end was nigh and then Jesus comes up and says this you guys standing here this generation shall not pass away and so all of these things be fulfilled but we look at this urgency it’s like look you got to do this it’s gonna happen it’s coming soon not 2,000 years later not 3,000 years later whatever people think it’s gonna be but just then for those people anyway my view of the Scriptures changed when I understood that urgency there that Paul was having and then a lot of it started to make more sense while Jesus was giving instruction and and so Christians would read that and say well that’s for us man that was 2000 years ago he’s given you instruction on like what to do on the day of wrath or the day of judgment or whether now he was given those people their instruction some of the other stuff the teachings of Christ those are those are universal those are timeless those will never pass away that’ll be forever to do to do good unto others to bring forth fruits of good deeds and in labor and things like that like that stuff is universal it will never pass away so I hope you guys enjoyed this in this episode I wanted to change it up a little bit as well we are I’ve been doing beer and having a been having a lot of similar episodes lately you know a lot of you know New Age stuff a lot of people talking about you know ghosts and contacting the dead and stuff like that a lot of psychics and stuff so energy work I like to change it up every now and then you know I’m saying I can get into all of it I got something to say about a little bit of all of it so yeah it was a good good interview and I was uh I loved his heart for the gospel and to share with the lost and got to have you know I don’t talk to a lot of uh church people too much anymore so it was a good good chance for me to roll some of these ideas and some of the stuff I’ve been seeing that go on within the church realm and about evangelism and who’s doing it right and who’s doing it wrong and this is the way that you should should evangelize and this is the way that you shouldn’t like he was talking about like people downing them for rock and I’m telling you it’s so funny and my excuse is that we are in the Bible Belt man there’s some crazy churches down here crazy theologies I’ve seen it all I’ve had the conversations my friends have had it they’ve been back in the corners and weird little small hole in the wall churches and I should have told this guy this story too but maybe he’s listening to this maybe he’ll go back and listen to this story and I feel like I’ve shared this story on the podcast before but I’m gonna share it again because it fits we’re talking about these little backward churches we’re talking about Christian rock Christian metal Christian rap right there’s all of these people who say that God cannot use it or that it’s sacrilege and that it’s demonic that rap music’s demonic even the very beat there’s certain drums there’s certain churches around here that won’t let you have drums because they believe that the drums conjure up demonic entities and put you in a trance-like state which it it kind of does but like you’re saying go back to the scriptures it says to praise Him with all of these loud clanging cymbals praise him with the timbrel the high end and the low end so you have the you know the sheepskin pulled over the tambourine with the shells and things on it they kind of make those high ends and low ends of temporal so using these instruments to praise God with it’s very is very much as a biblical thing um I wish here buddy might my brother-in-law went to a revival and if you guys have already heard the story you’re gonna hear it again went to a revival uh with a friend of his at his church a little backwoods Baptist Church I don’t know if it was Baptist maybe it was full gospel maybe it was so I don’t even know the difference between all these guys anymore they all just kind of run together but it was a backwoods Church um he goes to the church he’s a Christian mind you he loves Jesus got a relationship with Christ he goes there and he’s wearing a Christian band t-shirt the Christian band happened to be the band demon-hunter really good Christian band love those guys um this their symbol that they use is a skull a demon skull with a bullet hole in the forehead so it’s got these big horns and it’s like this looks like a like a cow skull but it’s a demon skull with a bullet in the forehead I mean that weird demon hunters we killed demons and I’ve actually got demon hunter on my arm and Kinji oriental for those watching on the stream everybody wants me to break down my tattoos but anyway it just happened of it so I have kids your demon hunter and Kenji oriental he goes to the church he’s wearing the demon-hunter shirt pastor calls him up he says son what’s what’s on that shirt you have and I’m gonna I’m gonna go back and forth I’m gonna use my brother Wayne voice just because it’s been a while son how you doing who told you to wear that shirt in this church The Audacity he says no that’s a UH it’s a Christian band now son somebody lied to you it’s not a Christian band it’s uh it’s worldly no sir demon hunter it’s a Christian band and you know it’s a this is the symbol anyway he tried to tell him what the shirt meant he wasn’t having it the pastor made my friend take his shirt off in the church took his shirt off he’s sending it without his shirt on and said we’re gonna pray for you you’ve been lied to it’s demonic and the audacity of you to bring that in the house of God there’s a house of God right what is the house of God it’s definitely not a church building but they start praying for him they put him on the ground they start pouring anointing oil in his mouth trying to cast out demons because he had a Christian rock t-shirt on with that was called demon hunter and needless to say maybe there’s needs to say but he’s still a Christian he’s still a believer still goes to church every Sunday um that’s wild cuz you could just imagine it like I wasn’t there but I’ve been in similar places like you can imagine people praying in the Holy Ghost people shaken you had a key at a key they’re praying over there they’re really getting into it he’s just like hey is Christian I’m a Christian no you ain’t no Christian son you got you a child of the devil we go cast him out of you in God’s name right now I own you put fire on him Lord tell me I’ve been to these churches this is what they do is crazy I’m in the Bible Belt it’s some crazy stuff going on down here man crazy stuff these people are insane man they really are they’re delusional they are delusional I’ve been to some crazy churches it’s crazy in the land of the Bible Belt hmm we are under the reverend spell in the land of the Bible Belt Alabama but I think I’ve been talking about this too that I think if I can thrive with my message in a Bible Belt if I can thrive and be in midst of ridicule and stuff really happened like it’s uh it’s deep but if you can stand strong that and not give up there’s a blessing in it for you I’m saying this again I said it on another podcast the other day but i’ma say it again because somebody wrote me and said that they they needed to hear that don’t go don’t grow weary in well-doing keep the faith don’t look for you know we’re looking for other people to affirm our beliefs and affirm our experiences you know for me the Bible affirmed the majority of those crazy experiences that I’ve had and so that’s you know with you know spirits and ghosts and all kind and just really tearing the Bible apart and finding out all of the crazy obscure stuff that’s in there that people would never even know that’s in the Bible the Bible is a very interesting book it’s a magical book as well to know that like if God be for you who can be against you no matter what you’ve gone through no matter what you’ve been through to know that God has your back like there’s a there’s a release there’s a spiritual encounter when people come to that understanding for the first time where were you at when he found you remember that place where were you at your arm I know people has been there stuper laying in your own urine and throw up from a long night of partying I know people have done that where were you when he found you where were you when you came into the revelation of Christ and there God’s love for you is in Kuenn chable the overwhelming radical love of God there if you haven’t felt it it’s there for you to experience no matter where you are no matter who you are God is not a respecter of person you haven’t gone too far out there you haven’t God has not given up on you God has not turned his back on you isn’t he said he’d never leave you and he’d never forsake you never means never he’ll never do that we try to like judge God off of our parents or our pastors or our leaders you know we think that that that relationship models somehow because it’s some type of authority figure not it just cuz your parents have given up on you just cuz your pastor is giving up on you or your spouse or your husband your friends give up on you God will never give up on you that’s enough to get through anything to deal with anything the anything is different for everybody man and I’m just glad that it’s universal these principles are universal I can share my story and you relate on some level we can have a guest on they share their story we relate on some level some level a piece of it maybe no yeah hopefully you can pull something away from it I really do believe that there’s things that you can pull away from each and every one of these stories the autant authenticity of being um who you are who God created you to be we’re not supposed to be lemmings you’re not supposed to look like you’re not supposed to be a you know it’s so weird you’re not supposed to belittle copycats doppelgangers of other pastors and preachers and roast beef was to be influenced by Christ and go out and with the hole full of the Holy Spirit and be who God’s called you to be whatever that looks like that’s the big thing whatever that looks like what does that look like we want to define it right we want to say okay this is what it is and this is what I am I’m an evangelist I do this I’m a child of God like not even know but you do know that there’s fruit there you do know that you’re being effective and you do know that there’s a sense of peace when you do it or when you go there say go where the pieces thank you be be hard trying to where the pieces why would you go anywhere else the pizzas not there God’s not calling you there go to where his presence is his presence will go before you whatever that is and it’s different for everybody we’re talking about how uh you know I mentioned that you know ministry or this podcast or what he’s doing looks sexy it does look sexy like dudes you know performing for like 19,000 people you know torn the world it’s pretty sexy man like a I think that sounds fun right performer for that many people so there’s people who envy that they want to do that like it that like that is something to ascribe to but it’s if God hasn’t led you to that then it’s not for you whatever it looks like you have you have to follow the the hand of God and the power of God to it people look at what I’m doing trust me and I’m saying some experience I have friends who say hey I want to start reaching out to the New Agers I won’t start reaching out to the New Agers to the psychics trust me they don’t do it usually but they say they have a great idea we have those friends who have all these ideas but they can’t they don’t execute loosely I will start reaching out to the New Agers and in the spiritual community man I really feel like God just has a heart for those people hey I got the platform to do it man I reach a lot of different people here the demographic is pretty open man and we there’s a common bread with with all of them I think you know I think the new-age term is a Christian term Jesus said I’ll be with you you know to the end of the age talked about the new age coming in assuring in the new age which is the age of Aquarius really I want it I want a witness to the New Agers man Christie’s laughing we got a psychic right now she she’s listening right now it says ha ha to the psychics I mean it trust me I want to I want to witness to the New Agers and to the psychics Dean you trying to ruin just to the new ages and the psychics and then you find out that the psychics in the New Agers are closer to Jesus than you were mind blown you find out that the Hindus years of the love of God Hindus a carriers of peace and righteousness and joy and love you found out that the Hindus are closer to the heartbeat of God and closer to Jesus than the Christians blows up here realm of thinking you got it all figured out you got it all figured out who a baby they can’t okay you’re into some things that God is against you know God is not in there man look until you’re able to see God in all you can’t see God at all there’s nowhere you can go no place you can go that God is not there in the book of Acts it talks about if God will deal with any men any man any woman as long as they will repent as long as you turn from your wickedness and the Bible gives a good description of wickedness and things like that hurting people manipulating people judging backbiting slander all of these type of things and so if like there’s those are laws man if you you know you entertained that kind of stuff you’re gonna get that kind of stuff spiritually and then you’re gonna welcome that stuff in your life but if you turn from that you’d be put on the highway to holiness repent turn from your wicked I know that word is an old fast we don’t like that word or whatever but it’s a you know it’s – it’s to have a redirection to do a 180 to turn around to have a new way of thinking a new way of thinking on which level that God hates you God is this that God is that yeah I knew a new revelation of who God is to represent Jesus present Jesus what to represent him represent Jesus because he’s been presented wrongly I really believe that that’s all we can do we can only go off of our revelation we can only go we can only give what has been given to us that grace that we’ve been shown by God through Christ that grace that’s yours that is yours perfect peace that no man can give you and no man can take away you can offer that at same piece that same grace goddess so beautifully shown you I can give you I can’t give you anything else all the rest of its just theory rules regulations and doctrines this theory I don’t know but I can only give you what I know what I understand what I’ve experienced what is mine and the deeper that you grow in God the more you have to offer the more that you have to give the more that you can truly be like the Apostle Paul when he says I have become all things to all men so that I can win some SD SD what religion are you what are you I’m all things what are you what are you going through what’s happening talk yeah I’m I’m saying I’m that this isn’t falling upon death ears it says for somebody it’s deep man when you really like I know we heard that we’ve heard this but when you really understand it you understand it when you over stand it when you know it nobody can take it from you and you really the Bible comes to life because you can see it played out in your life oh that’s what yeah righteousness about man I hope y’all enjoyed this episode I really enjoyed that conversation like I said switching it up a little bit been doing a lot of mr. Coe a lot of you know energy work and healing and some of its just kind of running together I’ve even thought about maybe doing a month or a week or something where I just don’t have any guests you know I’m saying sometimes just the information overload you know what I’m saying so I really have just go a month or something just try it see what happens or just go solo shows what happens because some of it you know we’ve discussed the love okay I know we’re getting close 250 episodes probably over that but um yeah part of it so anyway um just some some news right quick and I’ve been talking about it but September the 22nd I’m gonna be in Tallahassee Florida and um hey Christy Lisa speaking she’s and the catch is that’s a great idea bring Aaron on with you yeah me and Aaron can do some stuff together that’d be awesome my wife everybody’s been commenting about that last show we did I’m gonna be in Tallahassee Florida September the 22nd it’s gonna be an all-day festival that’s called Shanthi fest the information is on my website I’m gonna be doing a set there I’m gonna be performing and I’m also gonna be doing a live podcast this is gonna be the first one I’ve ever done or we kind of do a podcast in front of an audience and so hopefully that’ll go good hopefully that’ll be the start of something new the start of something big where I can actually get out there and start traveling and doing some hosting live podcasts in different places that the show is growing expert exponentially I don’t even know how to I’m pretty sure just butch exponentially I don’t even know how to say that word but it’s growing like crazy that’s how I got to put it is growing like crazy the numbers are increasing a lot of people are jumping on board with what we’re doing here and it kind of opens up doors to kind of start getting out there there’s been a lot of talk about patreon meetups there’s been a lot of talks about discord family hangout meetups and stuff like that so all of that stuff is coming to light we’re definitely gonna be moving forward this is growing this is building its living its breathing it’s a family it’s an organism and not an organization this is what we are man I’m excited about the future also to let you guys know that Christy Lee will be going with this on the show as well on the doing guided meditation in healing there so that’d be beautiful she’s on the bill with me when we talked about doing some stuff together years ago and now it’s coming to past it’s coming to fruition this is our first live event together we’ve done stuff in homes we’ve done stuff in private settings but this is gonna be our first event that we’re able to kind of go out there and do together so that’s gonna be fun also we have an event coming up as of now November the second we’re gonna be at Deb’s house over in Mobile Alabama that’s what we did my album release party which was really fun they have like awesome house slash cabin deal that’s big enough to host a concert so we’ll be doing that on November the second all that info is on my website true sticker calm you get check out all that stuff there I hope to see you guys out we’ve been having a lot of people drive out from like far away when we do concerts and just let me know that it’s touching people like what we’re doing so it’s working so we’re gonna start getting out there a lot more doing more concerts more podcasts and stuff like that out there traveling and I’m excited about the future again if you want to support my work and enable me to go out there and do that at any level of giving even if it’s a dollar you get access to so much stuff head on over to patreon comm backslash truth seeker there you get access to all the stuff I talked about you get all my music ten plus albums there’s a bunch of new music there now as well like I think I got three songs off with this upcoming EP that I’m doing that are done and they’re on patreon you can get them before anyone else they won’t be out until several months but if you’re a patron supporter that music is free to download right now it comes out as I finish each track you just get access to download it a bunch of other cool stuff Thursday night school of the Mystics all that cool stuff so backslash true secret thank you guys for the support and all the new people who are jumping on board with this man welcome to the fold you guys are awesome there really is community there join our discord join our hangouts all that good stuff with that I’m gonna say peace and Shalom we’re gonna do it again very soon love y’all peace peace [Music] [Music] well that does it for this episode folks to hear more episodes of the truth seeker podcast head over to truth seeker calm and if you’re wanting to support the show and get rewards go to our patreon page at forward slash truth seeker

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