Dr.O | Reconciling Demons and Fallen Angels & Ancestral Communion | Adonijah O. Ogbonnaya
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9pM3XA9hsQ
Transcript source: YouTube captions

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we're going to go ahead and jump into
today's discussion
i'm excited to talk to my guests been
checking out his work for some time now
uh this man is a a pioneer i would say
in the modern day uh christian mystical
movement i would call it uh my guest
today is doctor
oh doctor oh welcome to the true seeker
podcast brother how are you
thank you how are you doing doing really
good man
welcome welcome to the show thank you
thank you man thank you so um i guess
let's start here i usually like to
let people just do an intro for people
who don't know who you are
obviously there's a ton of people here
in the chat listening live right now who
already know
who you are but for those who are new to
your work and uh just kind of give an
overview
who you are what you bring to the table
we'll start there
it sounds interesting
i am a child of god i
i i mean i've been i've been in this
practically since i became a believer i
came from the background
of jewish spirituality and became a
believer
i have been preaching the gospel since i
was a kid
so for over 40 years i've been doing
this
uh when it wasn't popular when no one
was doing it
when i was here
and talking about experiencing uh yes
um i i don't like to talk myself but i
did
i have a strong theological educational
background so
um regulative claim on uh
school of theology at the mount
university center clemont in california
so we are reading apart from books and
mysticism which i just started writing
recently i've written on the 20 books
are academic books that are being used
in universities
but my heart is to
talk about intimacy with god and how to
engage the world
engage uh god in a way that
uh transforms the earth and transforms
the
world that's all i have to say
hey that's that's it man that just i
think that covers everything man just
this
umbrella of love and people experiencing
and encountering god and so
i think a lot of people are having
encounters by themselves you know the
natural
uh process that they're they're going
through and uh they don't have a
frame of reference for it you know they
go to the pastors and evangelists and
they usually
like you said you were labeled a heretic
they tell them it's demonic whether it's
angelic visitations or just these wild
far
out experiences that were experiencing
as
believers and so you you had kind of
like the same thing as well coming
into that and just being open and honest
about your experiences
well yeah you know the difference is um
i grew up in a system where where you
don't tell
all that stuff publicly you know and
it saved me a lot from
from some things you know but there were
some things that you you felt compelled
to share
uh the first thing i learned and i don't
talk about it i know most people
a lot of westerners think everything
african is demonic so
so let's just get it straight you know i
was trained how to
keep secrets and it's not in the church
to tell you don't look
don't keep secrets i said but i think
that man who doesn't keep secret
is a dangerous person and the secrets of
the lord i would go to
him it is a secret so god can speak some
things to you and tell you to shut your
mind on it if the right time
and when you open it before the time
it's your fault that you're being
persecuted so i learned that as a child
but whenever even with that whenever the
truth is shared
people do not like to uh
they don't like their comfort zone to be
challenged
um but my view has always been that
if you are the one who god gives the
revelation
then the the owners
of patience and love and grace towards
those who don't have it
is on you not on them
do you think that those experiences go
outside of the word though
or do you think that if you dig deep
enough you'll find examples
and experiences hidden with throughout
the scriptures
well let me put it let me put it like
this to you okay
who who do we believe the word comes
from
god right yeah what is god's nature
god's nature is in
finance the word of the word
the being of god and the world in the
mirror of god is
is unfathomable yeah the reason we
don't know the scriptures not because
the scriptures do not really start
because we have not
really looked to the prism of the
scripture to look into the heart of the
world
the one who spoke it you know uh one one
african church father
when they were having a big argument
they kept quoting the scripture he says
good he says i do not know the one who
right
who wrote but i know the one who spoke
because the word is deeper than that
which is written
so so think about it it's a word of god
written in text
but it was spoken by god first before it
was written which means it carries the
being of god
and unless you don't understand that the
scripture is
the written incarnation of god's being
which means you can keep searching it
why is it that
you and i have been doing this for years
and yet every time we look at the
scripture we see something new
you know here's the reason here's the
reason and
i learned this and this is part of the
hebrew background
is that the scriptures are living stuff
that you cannot find it does not mean
it's not there the scriptures will speak
to you according to the level of your
maturity
because they are just to you not
necessarily you are adjusting to them
so the more you grow the more the
scripture opens up
it's heaping treacherous to you because
it's a living thing
so when people tell me you have to
experience out of scripture and i ask
okay is it the word
is it is it a word of god even let's
just forget the christian debate about
whether it is the word of god
or a word of god yeah is it a word of
god
and if it is a word of god it means it
carries the fullness of who god is how
can you say
that you're having an experience outside
of the word of god
unless you mean outside of the religious
system
that's not the same thing as saying
outside the word of god because for you
you could wake up one morning and a text
that you have you have been reading for
the past 20 years all of a sudden you
start crying worrying why are you crying
i thought you might have been reading it
for so long why are you who are you
seeing something new
because you have developed to the level
where it gives up its secret to you
scripture is a living thing yeah
yeah that's why it's important for us to
to spend time in
in you know with the living word and
also the written word as well because
it's
it opens up like you said and the things
that we've been reading over and
a lot of things we skip over and we we
interpret it one way but then we'll
watch a movie and the lord will speak to
us and give us a piece and then when we
go back and read the word it like
opens up to a whole new level because we
have a new grid
to understand what was being
communicated
to us for this particular season that
we're in right
yeah let me say something
can you come just a little bit closer to
the computer
according to the hebrew people there are
70 72 families of the earth
if the scripture was given to the
families of the earth then the very
basic level of the scripture is 1772
and most of us never get beyond the
second or third level of scripture
so how can we then say that we know
exactly what the scripture says
it's it's it's something that god gave
to the world
every family of the earth the scripture
scripture carries that and that's the
difference between
the christian scriptures and the other
scripture
is that the christian scripture the
jewish and the christian scripture
seems to have been bringing to the world
to the
universe to the multiverse it was
written in all the different routine and
we
i'm sorry for saying like the difference
between a jew and a former gender
is that the jew believes there is one
god and many worlds
the gentile i believe there is many gods
and one world that's the two differences
yeah so so the the one god who is
who is who is not just one in terms of
singularity but who is
who is a a movement of being
within himself that isn't that the
fundamental interconnection of the
universe that god
is who spoke that's what we believe
right and the premise where we start
is that this god has given us
something that speaks to every family on
earth so you don't
nobody nobody no doctor oh no
pope francis knows the whole level
because it was written to be prismatic
to all the families on the earth
so so it's a height of arrogance for me
to say i've read the scripture
and i'm having an experience that is
beyond the spiritual how do you do that
it's because they because the way we
start is what makes the problem
and if you have god is a mystery and you
are a mystery not just a mystery because
you're a believer
you're a mystery by the way the god so
the god who created you is a mystery
who made you a mystery so which means
you're going to keep exploring this
stuff
for a long time and the more you know
god the more exciting it is the more
he opens up to you the more you know
union is not knowing god completely
union is becoming one with god in order
to search
the nooks and crannies of god forever
and ever
that's awesome what what would stifle
that what would hinder that pride
arrogance
uh thinking that we kind of got it
figured out which a lot of us
when we get a little bit of knowledge we
kind of fall into that early on but then
the lord shakes us out of it
yeah but that's the danger that all of
us have to face because
because one of the things i've learned
let me speak for myself one thing's
available
is that knowledge pops up you know
so i have trained myself over and over
again
to be able to listen to those who don't
know what i know
to hear them people who know me
may say they can tell they can tell if
i'm telling the truth or not
that i will listen to anyone who is
preaching the gospel
the only time i i i stand
i stand up against people is when they
try to bring a foolishness that messes
other people's life
you know because i do know the spiritual
world
you know if you if if someone comes up
and tries to
make a believer who's searching for god
search for something else yeah i will
stand
up to them yeah you know and that is
never out of hatred
it's never out of out of uh i know
yeah i do know better than some people
i'm sorry i shouldn't talk like that
that's not
i don't know better because i've been if
i if i don't know anything by starting
this for 40 years for
i've been in ministry 41 years this year
you know so if i don't know anything
then i should stop talking
you know but the point i'm trying to
make is that
that idea of losing the mystery
and the wonder of god is what makes me
behave that way
the other one is when we get to the
point where we don't love people
you know and when we where our love for
people
uh takes becomes secondary
to our theology you know
our theology must be based on love you
know doesn't mean we don't correct
doesn't mean we don't say hey i don't
think that's right
but the heart of love is when it
when it begins to be affected
and we become i don't know how to say
become bitter
we we start treating people
as objects that becomes a hindrance to
our experiencing that
so for me
it is it is
endeavoring from the depth of your being
to love people no matter what they've
done and loving people does not mean a
condominium
of how they are behaving and i think
that that's what's different
with some what some people are doing
they're saying everything is okay and
everything is not okay
you know you can love people and love
them deeply
and if you ever connect that love to
them in a real way
you can transmute their life to
something deeper
but as you're loving people don't forget
your love for people doesn't compel them
to love you back
that's the mistake most people do
there is no intrinsic law
that demands that the lord will back the
only intrinsic law
is the law of the will you know
the law of the will you know the law of
the world the law of the human will
which is the law of the sovereignty of
god
is what compares a person to love you if
you have to compare someone to love you
you have diminished their divinity and
are god-likeness
that's good um with uh do you see a
change
with uh i would say the mystical
movement but the body of christ
as a whole um that people are growing a
little bit more towards
love and being more inclusive now versus
the us for and no more there's a lot of
i'm moving a lot of the the mystical
christian circles right
and it seems like they're more inclusive
they're more more open
um but there are some i have to say
there are some
some gatekeepers who are still like kind
of holding on to
it's only going to be done this way we
can't have no
new people in it always happens like
that would another generation
comes in and those who are able to kind
of steward it and raise up sons and
things like that
but i'm finding there's there's a
movement of people
um who who are just being more open and
honest and
and like uh you know they're just open
to hear your story and things like that
too versus
in the church realm you were labeled a
heretic and you were
you know they would run you out you know
it wasn't really it wasn't
it was surprised it wasn't really mostly
the church that did that
it was people outside too see and i
think i think
we keep forgetting the church is a
mixture of people
it's just a mixture of people you and i
have mystical experience
eighty percent of our brethren haven't
gotten there yet
like i said from the beginning the
almost of the love
and the tolerance and the capacity to
show mercy is not on the one who does
not know
is on the one who knows we we gotta keep
that
the reason jesus showed the level of
mercy is because the level of his
knowledge
of the world and who god is and you
and this is this is what saved me from
bitterness i've never left the church
people leave the church i have never
i've suffered from the hand of the
church
okay i have been you know the things
that the people in the church have done
to me
i should have it was the time i would
almost return back to judaism
but the point is when at once i learned
that the burden is not on the people who
do not know
is on the people who know so i think
that's most mystics are expecting
the people who do not know to father
them
to take care of them
you gotta be careful what you wish for
because if you if they start fathering
you
you're going to end up where god has
already brought you
out of so part of the process and i
think this is where
i made a lot of young mistakes and i
tell them i said this is what your
mistake you're making is
you're wanting your pastor or
the people in your church who have not
had the revelation you have
to minister to you and talk to you as if
they have that
in that way you are being unfair to them
you know we i have to learn that
and once i learn that you know
the transformation of people around me
happened
because i i understood
this thing that i have who
i could not have gotten it in a million
years if the grace of god
didn't show it to me so why am i
boasting
the one question that john the baptist
asked
when talking about jesus is what do you
have that you did not receive
and if you received it why do you behave
like you did not receive it
it's to me it always humbles me every
time i every time
you know we all get it my head gets off
god showed me this
he received it he didn't come up with it
it's a gift yeah god gave it to you and
he
never gave it to you for you see and
that's the problem
i'm i'm a i'm a symbol african you know
you you you
guys are western as americans you're so
smart and that
you have all these big universities i'm
just a village boy
but i've i've been i've lived as an
african in the village
i've lived in chicago to live in chicago
you know i've lived
in lansing illinois i've lived
all over but i have never seen a tree
eating its own fruit
that's good so so i think
once once you get the point you know the
father
has chosen me because my fruit will feed
many
and i will become a sacrament to the
world as jesus is sacrament to me
i must become a sacrament to other
people it's hard
no but no i'm not saying it's easy
please nobody should
they're going to bite you instead of
taking the fruit they're going to try to
cut you
together but you got to understand who
you following
the guy you are following
we do the basic christian stuff you and
i are following somebody
who would have destroyed the world with
the word of his mouth
yeah who would have destroyed the temple
i know it was metaphoric when he said i
destroyed and i'll build it up in three
days but he could have
he could have in the garden where they
come to arrest him
i dropped something and i said you know
when when jesus was on
in the garden and said to peter put your
sword back in his [Â __Â ] he wasn't talking
to peter talking to all the angelic
hosts
and saying hey it's okay
don't do anything relax
and and we have to learn that we have to
learn and
part of part of the reason why i think
like those of us who have the experience
are
more tolerant is because we're beginning
to learn
some things about hey
god trusted me with something i can't
use it to beat my brothers and sisters
over the head
but it doesn't mean we don't know that
it doesn't mean we don't know truth from
error
doesn't mean we don't know truth from
life doesn't mean
we don't know uh
what do you call it uh
vindictiveness from mercy we know what
that is
okay so sorry i'm talking to you no
that's it's all good man um
i think you know even going back to what
you're saying about just kind of like uh
cultivating that awe and wonder for god
and for the universe and the things that
he's created versus
people you know stifling that you know
or thinking that you've kind of reached
this you've it you've come so far that
there's no more that you can learn or
whatever
would stifle that or or we stifle that
in in
other people which is something that uh
you know we're learning not to do it
it's definitely
um you know a responsibility i think
integrity is a big part
of of moving in the mysteries and and
and you know
the difference between you know simon
the sorcerer and
and uh you know paul and peter you know
what i'm saying that they had to
cultivate it with the life laid down and
they and because they did that more was
given
so for us that's that's the plumb line
it's integrity
it's uh it's love you know um let me ask
you this really quick um
seeing that you come from uh africa and
things uh
um does the name credo mutua mean
anything to you
do you are you familiar with that name i
knew him
he just passed away yeah i know
what what do you have any comments about
him and his life and what he taught
and uh things like that i think i think
gregory was
was a was an incredible man as it
relates to the mysteries of
the african world which i think a lot of
christians
in africa have a lot to learn from you
know
uh there's some things that i don't
agree with actually
one of his very strong proteges who used
to be the speaker of the house
of south africa uh matilda motega who
runs the
the school the african the cultural
school for religion was
a close round i'm a professor so i talk
to people that i need to talk to see
part of the issue
with a lot of and when we say the church
we should remember
we're talking mostly about charismatic
guidance we're not talking about
the whole body of christ and the
charismatics have always claimed
the body of christ the church as if it
is their own rightful stuff
you know the church is larger than the
charismatic
you know and so whenever we make those
high fullerton
sound we are the body of christ you know
we talk about
us and tom speaking guys and spirit
moving guys look at the mystics and i'm
talking as if they are the only body of
christ
you know the body of christ includes
both the fingernail
and the toenail you know as well as the
little crevices so you just can't
claim it for yourself there are people
in other structures
in other churches i mean when it comes
to skip talking i think they're the
first ones to speak in tongues the
ethiopian church has been speaking in
tongues for
almost 2 000 years and that's west
that's a western thing when westerners
learn something then
they stop telling it they claim it as
their own
they discover they chose the aspect
so a lot of the other studies have have
always had
this this or they call it um
is a word they use for it but it is this
strong speaking and praying in the
spirit
and ecstatic experience it never stops
it's following you or glad yeah yeah
not just muslims there's a word that
as a word the ethiopian jesus described
i'm going to remember in a second
but if you look if you look at you know
how these guys have kept that people
have always been having ecstatic
experiences
the people that didn't have static
experiences were protestants
the catholics had it the orthodox have
it the egypt
and other dogs even the russian orders
are people who had the experience
and they did the church didn't fight
with them over it you know
because it was part of the christian it
was part of
what happened to the followers of jesus
and everyone was looking
to have the same experience but not
everybody did
so now with the protestants because of
the rationalistic process that happened
in the enlightenment
they lost the capacity to have that
experience until
people like you know the way the way the
way of mistakes
until people like kamzinsendorf and the
rise of the methodism and all this
the emotional experience of religion we
know that in history
but you and i we're not the only body of
christ there's a lot of people in the
body of christ
you know so the guys who are doing this
who in the charismatic churches
or maybe presbyterian church
my experience is people who have had a
certain experience of god
and that has become the defining
experience of their life
and they cannot fathom that god can do
anything else
except what is done with them and they
build the ministry on it
they will experience and build the
ministry of it and they never change
what it is because they are not open to
new experiences but even with that
god uses them based on the experience he
gave them
to help other people get there it is not
the responsibility of the pitch
the teacher to get you beyond where he
is
it's your responsibility to get beyond
where your teacher is it's good stuff
we're coming up on a quick break i want
to go into a little bit more detail on
that with you we got a two-minute break
right quick
i'll join you on the other side sit
thank you
wow so the throne room meditation man
this was just like a new level for me of
creating encounter
really the process behind it is going in
for myself
having an encounter with the lord
tapping into the spirit
and getting in his presence and really
just petitioning the father's heart and
saying god
what would you say to them if i'm
bringing these people with me here if
they're doing this guided meditation
and we're going through this journey
we're having fun we're seeing things
we're
experiencing new feelings and emotions
and sensations
what would you say to them so it's
channeling
the father's heart and relating it back
to the people
so man it's just a beautiful encounter
and um
i remember when i wrote the first one i
was so excited about it and it was just
god speaking to my heart i was able to
channel the father's heart
and um i would read the script to people
because i was just so excited while i
was working on it
and every time that i would just read
the script the presence of god would
just
invade me and i just burst into tears
and i couldn't even read it
i'm just like let me copy and paste it
and send it to you
but every time i listen to it i'm
immediately translated
back into the throne room of god and uh
everything's good there
that's the place where everything is
okay where in the scriptures it says
that we are to hide under the shadow of
the almighty
this is the throne room of god this is a
place that we can encounter for
ourselves
but this is also a place in which we
dwell so a part of us is
always there and we have access to that
now there's people who have never
encountered this before in their life
and it's a totally
new experience for them and almost every
time i get a testimony back from someone
they just say how god wrecked their
lives that they didn't know what they
were getting into
the next thing they know they're in the
presence of god
wrapped up in his glory he's
communicating his love to them
and it just totally wrecks their lives
so
make sure you check out the throne room
guided meditation visualization that i
brought to the table
all right i'm gonna make sure y'all go
check that out go to truthseeker.com
you can get more info on that we're back
from the break
quick break um man so yeah just to
piggyback off of what we just said you
know i mentioned critter mutual we're
talking about
you know how big the body of christ is
and things like that and
just to kind of stay on that vein um for
my
awakening experience and just going
deeper and deeper there was a
a video that i seen with billy graham
who was being interviewed
by robert schuller on the hour of power
and it was this
clip where he talks about how they're
talking about this end time revival and
will we see this big
massive outbreak in churches and things
like that and billy graham says no
i don't think we will he says but i do
see
people coming to christ from all over
the world in all different walks of life
and he starts talking about how
god has a people for his namesake sheep
that are not of this fold even
who are part of the hindu world they're
part of the muslim world they
he said they may not have even have
heard
ever the name of jesus mentioned but
they're part
of the body of christ and it's more
inclusive than we've been told um for me
that
that really allowed me to kind of look
into other truths and
and see people as an extension of myself
versus
us and them and and seeing the fruit
like just judging them by the fruit
versus judging them by what
version of the bible they had or
whatever the case was
what would you say to something like
that would could somebody like credo
mutual
be part of the body of christ
but cradle cradle will talk about jesus
so
you know he'll talk about jesus and what
he believes about jesus
now the belief about jesus doesn't have
to be perfect
yeah but i think i think we make a big
mistake and here's the problem with
christians okay
christians want to force people who do
not want to be part of jesus christ of
jesus christ because they think that
just because you know they want it it
should be so
the the danger in that is
it becomes western co-optation of other
people into their system without their
will
that's number one western people like to
do that i love billy graham
but i think i think it is is is
why that may be true if you start with
you be careful not to do what westerners
do all the time which is co-op other
people do their stuff because their
stuff is good
you know there is a real there is a real
decision now
can christ appear to other people he did
he appeared to me before i become a
believer
you know i i met jesus i appeared to me
before i became a christian i was a kid
you know before i before someone even
came to preach to me
so i knew who he was didn't know the
name you know but when i started hearing
about him my
soul resounded that that was the person
that has appeared to me
and over my lifetime um
i've seen the person i believe to be
jesus so many times in my life i've had
an appearance
and i'll talk a lot about it because it
doesn't give you any special
credence you know because he said it's a
gift
again you know to me it's like jesus was
passing by
and he stopped by my house that's a
different kind of stuff yeah
so but the point the point is yes there
are people in other religions who know
him
and the issue is there are no two truths
there are no to righteousness so
if if the person we are following who is
the lord jesus christ
for me messiah yeshua if he says i am
the way the truth the light
it means that whenever you find true
righteousness
or seeking of god
usually christ will probably appear to
that person and show themselves
now do we have to know
the name jesus the language may not be
that but there's a word for salvation
in every language okay that for me
is the real issue but to to to to to
then say that people
who are who reject the concept of
righteousness people who reject the
concept of who
of the idea of truth and the idea of
life
that that person is a member of the body
of christ i can't i can't say that
and i see i think that's where people go
astray but there are people
that that the lord has appeared to i
mean but
here's another thing okay
the thing about this thing we're doing
is
we're we are in we start talking like
that
we're denying the responsibility of
being the manifestation of god upon the
earth that's number one
because we are saying okay jesus you go
do it i don't need to reveal
i don't preach fool not even just
preaching
i don't need to expand my being
to include and bring other people so
they can know
that god that i know god will do it
himself
that's a lazy man's religion for sure
you know
now we do not need to do what people did
go force them to convert
and jewish and i think christians should
stop trying to get jews to convert
that's my view i think they should stop
because they don't need to because
without them there will be no
yeshua without them they will know they
will not know the way that god loves the
world they will still be walking
in fighting over stuff but that's a
different thing
so then what am i saying i'm saying yes
there are people in other religions who
may know
him but to say that they don't need to
know him
in order to be to to to get to know
god uh you're not dividing god into
several categories even even the hindus
have to
find out what is the ant-man what is
that singular stuff that is the pure
light
and by the time they do that they are
now come to the conclusion of the same
person who says i'm the light of the
world
you get my point so plato was not a
hater of christianity
he loved jesus he just didn't like the
what the can i say
on your show he just didn't like what
the white man had done to black before
for sure and the whole rejection of all
the righteous
myths and the righteous stories of
african culture
calling everything africans do
witchcraft it's a different thing
okay to love everyone to open to be open
to everyone to look at everyone
as a child of god in the making
for the reason i say in the making is
because i am
an absolute respecter of the human will
and his divinity i i can't deny your
will because if i do i deny that you are
god
so and when christians try to you know
release it
you know oprah for example they get up
and say
everyone is a child of god but what if i
don't want to be
you say even if you don't want to be
yourself is that the case
how can that be the case i don't want
your blood see only human beings
will make another person serve their god
whether they want to or not
and god makes peace with it god does god
god and this is where god is different
from you and i hear like okay
you don't want to save me try it your
way then
yeah and and you when you become like
god this is one of the reasons you the
more you become like
i'm talking to you and i'm trusting you
the more you become like god the more
you let other people make up their mind
and not making people not letting people
make up their mind is not love
it's actually satanic because you are
denying them their divinity
your god i must let you make up your
mind and
say wait when you start doing something
i say which you're not acting like god
what is my view of god god is love
god is merciful so truth how come you're
not
acting like the god that you are
for sure it's very simple for me yeah
you know
yeah and that's the thing too so like
those other people who
have not responded to christianity or or
heard the message of the gospel or
responded
they are also by nature doing
things that are producing the fruit that
we would call
love and peace and grace and mercy like
there's there's some hindus who
will you know be able to kind of show
those attributes
way stronger than a westernized
church-goer you know who just kind of
shows up and uh
they claim that they're closer to god
than someone else who's by nature doing
the things that are written written of
in the law those kind of things right
yeah but i think i think i think there's
a little bit of there's a little bit of
understanding there let's let's try that
now so
is he did you become a child of god by
what you
do or by your belief system
see because now if you do that then you
already disqualified those people that
you're still trying to say
that you're still trying to say are
righteous because you're saying that
their relationship with god
is based on their works
you see this this is this is where
christians contradict themselves
i believe that that person who's doing
righteousness their righteousness only
counts
if they believe that no matter what they
do only god's grace can bring them into
where they're going
but when you when you start saying that
because a christian does not act a
certain way that it removes them from
knowing god
perfection is not the goal of knowing
god belief
is the goal of knowing god faith in god
and there are hindus
who believe in god what they really
believe that god is a savior
that's different from the guys who don't
say and there's some people who like are
more consistent
with that than others but we can't go to
the point of saying
that because someone does
righteous acts and lives moral life
that means they are better than you who
believes in the
strong possibility of human beings
changing the world through their law
through their faith and their love for
god
the act is not perfect because it's not
that's not even how you relate to your
friends
how many of your friends are perfect
i don't know that many not one no not
one yeah but this is why they are
friends they believe in you
in spite of their imperfection we cannot
do this stuff that we are doing
when we are saying okay that guy
loves me therefore he must be of god
i mean we just have love each other yes
so
so if i'm going and doing against other
people but i'm loving
the people around me and caring for them
and i don't believe
in in the in the fundamental
righteousness of all human beings or the
capacity of how human beings with god
what's what does that do you see
we and by the way because we're
believers we need to think
from the opposite we must use head and
heart
we just can't use head and we just can
use heart
we love we love the world we open to the
world
but everyone doesn't have faith
everyone doesn't believe
we want to save the world but we can't
save the world
apart from the human will we can't
i won't tell you i do believe they are
muslims
i know that there are muslims who are
still in islam
who know the lord who met the lord
and if you're smart you don't tell them
to leave islam immediately because it's
going to kill them
you allow them to live their life out
according to the level of the standard
in that star
but it doesn't mean every person who's a
muslim knows god just like not every
person who's a christian knows god
and christianity is a western term for
westerners
it's not a religion yet it has actually
become a cultural category
we're talking about not everyone who
calls on the name of yeshua
or who calls upon the name of of your
behavior
or who calls upon the name of el elyon
not everyone they say
they swear by it but they don't believe
it
faith is really serious let me ask you a
question
because you're the only oh i shouldn't
like actually you're the person but
here's the things bro what did
what why did they why was jesus killed
and this is what christians don't answer
what does your scripture say
is the reason jesus was killed
because he claimed to be god is a
doctrine
and they said it very the people said it
very clearly we are not stoning you for
the good works that you did
we're stunning you for what you believe
and what you said with your mouth
so you can say someone who
sets up who says uh the serpent
is god and someone who says god is
beyond god is greater than all
creation it's not the same thing the
more the more we understand that and
there are
people by the way again the people in
hinduism who
understand the spirit nature of god who
are not caught up in
all the three million stuff we know
there are there
but who reveal the truth to them as a
believer would say
they know it because even though jesus
didn't tell them his name
they know it because the light of the
world has revealed themselves to them
there are people like that
yeah but i think we need to do a little
bit more explanation
than just say yeah we got to explain the
gospel
so uh it's almost like a way to get
around the cross like hey i don't have
to tell you about
salvation and sin and things like that
right so we
we still need to make them enter into
that portal of the cross and
understand like why he died and and the
power of the blood and those kind of
things
the old rugged cross well but
they are suffering how are you going to
explain their suffering without an
ultimate suffering
and that's the problem with believers
they do not know what they are what
their gospel
carries it speaks when you hear
that the person you are being told
understands your suffering he suffered
just
that this thing you're suffering he came
and
he can join you in you know a lot of
gods in the world
do not join their people in their
suffering
that's the problem with gnosticism the
god of gnostics
do not join their people in their
embodied suffering
they don't come to you and me when i
when you say are we
your god says what is that you need to
overcome your body
but when you say away to jesus he joins
your body says let's make your body
whole
it's just two different things yeah so
you're
something to offer a humanity
based on who yeshua is
it's not a condemnation of the world it
is good news
you everyone can do this and there are
people who
now let me repeat your word there are
people who know this
who are not christians in the sense of
the western world
i agree with you
yeah um it's it's uh the way billy
graham and them they explained they were
saying there was something within them
that
knew they needed a savior knew that
they knew that they wasn't complete and
it was only god
that completed them and so they you know
i guess i guess going back to like you
know what i'm saying Romans 1
2 like uh understanding that creation
itself testifies
of god and then there's people who they
don't know the law they didn't grow up
in judaism they don't know what
christianity is but by nature they're
doing
they're keeping the law because you know
it's because the law is about love and
they're walking in
in love for for people for themselves
for their family for their friends for
their
enemies even they love their enemies
with compassion you know
those kind of things yeah there is i
agree with you
but you know because it's all right no i
was gonna say i mean i've run into the
problem too just trying you know what
i'm saying just trying to
navigate through this stuff of like we
try to give people other solutions
outside of the cross because the cross
is an offense the cross is foolishness
you know what i'm saying but for us it's
the power of god so we'll try to give
them
other ways to cope with their
problems outside of jesus right because
we want to be accepted or we want to
sound more philosophical or whatever
when it's the simplicity of the work
that was done on the cross right there's
no way around that
you see here's the thing here's the
thing let's let's let's speak about
and i'm going to use western especially
modern western culture we're not talking
about
the old rocket the european culture
where something was regarded as
something that you
go through in order to transmute and
command
the western idea that everything goes
that's not just
there's no that's not the way the west
was before so
they think about it this way a person
who's in india
grasps for what suffering is
they understand suffering they're not
running away from their suffering
there's a view of the perspective of
suffering
that suffering is understood as being
able to transmute
and recalibrate the human being no you
don't always have to
suffer so they have an understanding
of the suffering of christ as the
suffering of humanity
we don't have to deny that we don't have
to deny that stone because
most people in the world want somebody
to empathize with them you know
in that so you're right christ is
you know and he will reveal himself to
them why is it that
most muslims sorry and churchill is
saying this because
a lot of people who are not christians
in other cultures who are
who are seeing him with his hand open
that
and they call him the white one yeah not
the one in terms of being a white man
with a white one the one who's dressed
in white
gun oh he came to me i saw him in white
garment
you know he appears to them
but yet these people still need you to
tell them what it means
yeah it's good
good stuff man yeah it's kind of like
you know people
well you know we want to be accepting we
want to we know that
christianity has had a bad rap and we've
done a great job at running people away
we're trying to convert them
and showing them how to do it and if
they mention anything outside of church
doctrine
you know you're not you did a good job
of hanging out where it almost seemed
like you wasn't wanted but most of us
tuck tail and go start a new church or
get church hurt or whatever the case is
but you stuck with it but
a lot of people are looking for uh
they're looking for answers and they're
looking for a place where they belong
and so
but yeah it's like it's like if we have
the answer but i'm giving you
like a counterfeit i'm giving you
something it's almost like the doctor
what the doctors do now they treat this
symptom
versus giving you a cure like i got the
cure but it may make me look a little
silly
you know it's not as deep and
philosophical and spiritual
as you may want it but it's gonna deal
with
you know your ailment i can treat your
symptoms by you know
meditation breath work all of these
stuff beautiful but to get down to the
core of it we got to go straight to
christ we got to go to the
to jesus to yeshua and deal with that
right
and see again every this is
this is the funny thing about this why
why every religion
including traditional african concept
is talking about god coming in our own
body
you know all talking about god coming in
a human being losing the skin and going
somewhere you know hinduism
a person is an incarnation of the of the
other world
you know and they lose this body in
order
the goal is always to enter and become
coming to union with god
you know everybody is looking for that
so why not offer your own solution
and give human beings an opportunity to
make the choice for themselves
why do we act like there is no choice to
be met
yeah it's because it's an offense
you know it's a stumbling block it's
foolish you know and some of us
you know we kind of we want to be
respected
you know those kind of things it's part
of it though right you got to become a
fool for his
for his namesake and he uses the foolish
things of the world
to confound the but with you but you
guys
you guys are so powerful christians are
so powerful i came into christianity
the problem is that believers even the
daily believers don't know how powerful
they are
that's the problem the real problem is
that we
sit we see people who believe in the
messiah
people who believe that god became a
human being took all of humanity in a
human body
we take them and we make them act like
they don't know
that god is one of us
we when we don't want them to have the
full experience
you know it is christians that make
themselves look
powerless if you befriend
you can't believe you know as a kid i
would pass by churches and i will see
flames of fires
out of the church even churches people
didn't think
was it was a good born again judge
is something about
the principle of the divine
in human form that we are missing
you're a child of god you're glowing
right now
the fire is all over you but you can't
see it
for yourself and most christians can see
it around other believers this is part
of the reason we do not look beyond the
veneer
we don't look at the nature of the
people around us
i i get very odd when i'm with believers
you know and i can always pick out
someone who is in there to not to do
what they're supposed to do
but i still don't tell them i just teach
we got you've got something
you know can i say this you are
your belief what you where you are going
with you guys are going with
where the young people who are having
this experience of going is the logical
progression of judaism christianity
hinduism muslim is the logical
progression of human movement
towards the divine
and to say there's no difference it's
not true there's a difference
let's go good stuff man i i appreciate
that um
and you know that that's what jesus saw
on people jesus was able to see their
potential
and he was able to see to see past you
know the scripture says that
that man judges by the outward
appearance but god judges the heart he
was able to look
into the soul of a human being
and we're supposed to be able to do that
as well right
yeah i mean that's but that's love
that's love bro that's love that's
me pouring god
on your movement to propel you towards
the fullness of who you are
else am i going to help you apart from
me that
how is am i going to support you apart
from that
yeah i always have you to help me
apart from that
that's good i'm excited man
man let's get let's get up man i'm
enjoying this this is this is good i
think we need to uh
have this discussion more often and i've
been uh you know and this is something
that we all deal with especially mystics
right because you want to
people start looking into the new age or
they start looking into
other mystical movements that don't talk
about the blood and
and jesus anymore really it's about
angels and about
speaking with the dead and the past
saints or whatever and this
we got too deep for the gospel you know
what i'm saying the simplicity of it so
i always like to revisit that man so we
can get a good vision of
how we're supposed to be doing man
because it's
this the scripture says you know who has
bewitched you
from the simplicity it's like you've
been be you know bamboozled somebody
tricked you
a spirit tricked you i out of that thing
that was so
simple that you received
to me he is still is still that thing i
am with karbat
you know my combat right the theologian
the big he was asked at the end of his
life when it was 80 i think 80 something
it was on i think he's on bbc and they
asked him
don't quote me but they asked him a
question and they said what is the
greatest theological lesson
you've ever learned it's a man who wrote
25 volumes
of church dramatics he's not a and
could read the back i would be all
original languages
you know it asked him to say what is the
greatest lesson you learned
he said and the greatest theological
lesson i learned
i learned on my mother's labs and they
say what is that
jesus loves me this i know
for the bible tells me so you know we
keep forgetting
we are children of god god took us we
have god's babies
and he teaches us things according to us
and according to our growth level
we should never forget that the
major theological thing is christ in you
the hope of glory it works out
we have god is working out his glory in
our being
all these experiences engaging angels
levitating you know moving
through dimensions you know walking past
past demons and they catch fire and run
away all that
stuff grounds on matter of fact
god loves you jesus
loved you he gave his life for you the
holy spirit
has brought the lord of god to share in
your heart
humanity is loved by god
you know the love of god is not lost but
just
you know you you
you can't take away the love that god
has from humanity away from
from us but we still must come to the
point where we accept that that we
accept that love into our day
is all over us all the worlds
that's good i love it how much time you
got what are we looking like on time for
you
oh what the hell next question
um i want to talk to you because we're
talking about african culture and
something that's kind of coming up a
little bit more
especially coming into the west and some
of us in the mystical movements or
whether they're having experiences or
for me it's more just exploring the word
um is the fact that people are having
encounters with their ancestors
or they're having encounters with the
saints that came before
uh we we're hearing a lot about that we
look at jesus at the mount of
transfiguration and
uh was it uh moses and elijah appeared
to him
and uh peter james and john and they got
to meet
i feel like that was something that may
have been happening more than once
in jesus prayer time for hours on end
is that something that we should engage
in as far as like trying to
commune with you know enoch and elijah
or king david in the heavens or
those kind of things what is your view
on that um as we're stepping into some
experiences like that
my view on this is the the the
the the the the division
or the deportation between this one and
all the other realms is not as strong as
we think it is
it's a permeable universe sorry it's a
permeable multiverse if you make
all the realms are interconnected it's
permeable we can go
in and out there that realm is not as
far as we think it is
it is right here it is by us we we go in
and out on it
either by process of consciousness our
soul our soul
even our physical body presses upon its
immunity it presents upon that
that that world and enters in and comes
out
we are we are we are interconnected we
have
we are tied with it we are rooked around
with it okay so we can't leave that one
now let's begin first things first and
i'm going to go against my western
christian brothers from the beginning
and the question i always ask all the
westerners
black or white why are your ass
sisters and ours are all wicked
there's a serious question that western
christians must answer
and historically it is not the african
who went to your car who went to europe
to kill europeans
it is not the african who went to india
to kill indians it is not the african
who went to
america to kill americans so how come
your ancestors are worshipped
as heroes and all our ants and righteous
and all our ancestors are looked at as
demonic
that's a question that the west must
answer why why our ancestors
all evil and used i mean it's like south
africa south african whites think all
their whites were rapping and killing
black women
and doing all the stuff that we're doing
that monuments and all those kind of
things built right
yes though so that kind of stuff
is what the church must overcome and i'm
saying here
there is no white church and there is no
black church so
the white christians who love jesus must
deal with the issue must answer the
question ah
why are your ancestors better than the
answers of the africans because they
didn't wear clothes
is that the definition of righteousness
because of all the projection you've put
upon them and when i remind people that
all my life i never met a divorced
person until i came to america
they get shocked i never saw a girl
that got pregnant pregnant out of
wedlock in my village
that is true they married at the age of
16 18 to 18.
but guess what i never saw one
so why is it that our ancestors
and by the way i messed with some white
people in america because almost all of
them have black blood but they don't
want to accept it
but we'll leave that alone
i challenge all of them to go to their
dna there's not one of them that doesn't
have
congolese nigerian blood in there
sorry i know this is it no it's good i
mean
but i mean so so i would respond to that
just because you said the church needs
to wake up
to that that this seems like there's a
social justice
movement that the church really isn't a
part of it's kind of like a natural
thing that's happening like they're
demanding that these
statues of these dudes who raped and
pillaged and
they're you know demanding that they
take these statues down and change the
names of the schools
change the names of the streets that are
named after some of these people
so it's it's happening but the church
isn't really
you know in on it but i just want yeah
but i just want the church not to say to
me as an african
which they don't even know i'm jewish by
blood see that's the point
if they see every black person as having
an ancestor that was doing voodoo
but voodoo only comes from one part of
africa
and that's the only thing so how would
that be
so how do you then claim all of africa
is doing good you don't even know what
it means
and even in the army there are righteous
people
who are their ancestors who spoke
against them so my
point is we are the ones who have to
choose
our righteous ancestors i have
had my righteous ancestors appeared to
me my family name literally
means my family name is
um sons of the prophets
and he is an old hebrew that's my family
name
well you said you said you said
something interesting that you said and
i've talked to some mediums who kind of
talk about this you said
righteous ancestors what about those who
were
who died in addiction who were wife
beaters or killers or rapists what about
those guys
the community has already condemned them
for what they did
you know so so the community has
remember when you said the law
those who keep the law if you keep the
law you shall live by the law and even
those who have no law
there is a law written in their
conscience yeah
you know so most cultures have standard
they may not be your standard
but they have standard of righteousness
god judges a man
that's good right
you know so so we're now looking at
you know my great-grandfather you know
my great-great-grandfather you know who
left off
our legacy you know
was a man that everyone revered as a
righteous man my grandmother died at the
age of 100 something i know white people
people in the west
say that's not true they probably don't
know when he was when she was born but
she was there when the first white man
walked into the village so let's talk
about that
so so anyway when she was still a baby
so the point the point we're trying to
talk about is
you're looking you are looking at at
the redefining whose ancestor is
righteous and who
is not and it is the community that must
define
righteousness you know and based and
then we measure it with the scripture
you know is it only
people in the west who have the ten
commandments all of our
chiefs in my village and our
uh others insist all
have they have to go through the laws
all what they should not do in order to
be the king
so so the west takes
all of the other cultures and does work
and bans
together as a primitive culture and then
cleanse everybody
is doing something wrong yeah so living
on who gave drugs to our leaders
and told him he was medicine until the
man lost his mind and went to the
mountain
becomes the hero of the european church
he wasn't even a missionary he wasn't
even a christian
but the church raised him up the church
raised him up to be a leader
to be a sent almost yeah see
that's the problem we have to be more
critical even now in political
atmosphere
people follow politicians
straight forward you know the liberals
are on this side
speaking or spewing their stuff they
conservatives on this side going with
everything that they said
is both sides so
every people every
people on earth before they heard the
gospel
this is where we come back to yourself
have a righteous person that lived in
that culture because
god has left no family on earth
without a witness that's good
um when we're talking about like voodoo
and we're talking about some of the
things that we look at as
primitive or outside of our frame of
reference with western culture because
that's how we just
we think the bible is written you know
for us today or whatever the case is
i have a lyric in one of my songs i say
uh uh
i said we break the mold take control
the prophecies were true i say
abraham was involved in a form of voodoo
and there's
and people are like it catches people
off guard but to see like abraham
had this encounter with god and then he
goes out and kills all these
animals and he takes the blood and he
makes a circle and he puts all the
animals
in a circle and he gets in the middle
and yahweh comes to visit him
i was like if we seen somebody doing
that today we're saying that's voodoo
you know somebody's killing chickens and
spreading the blood in a circle we're
calling the cops but it's
like we try to interpret it like it's
more of a clean westernized
church thing they would never do that do
you think we need to kind of look more
to like the primitive ways
or the ancient ways i would say uh when
trying to interpret
the scripture and spirituality this is
yeah
we need we need some of that this is
where we need discernment
because we know i know some things that
even we as jews did
why why we why are we not in the land
yeah we got a few of us down the line
why are we not in the land
who who kicked us out god
which means that there are certain ways
of doing that sacrifice
that ends up sacrificing human beings
that causes problems
which is what all the other nations got
into right
that's when you get into that so so it's
not so much you know and i get you that
people will consider that voodoo today
but what what most cultures condemned
which is probably what what most
cultures condemn
is the sacrifice of human beings
which going back to credo they talked
about digging up
bodies and having to do rituals where he
would drink
you know eat take the hand and boil it
and drink it and eat the flesh off of a
dead body and things like that right
and that's that's forbidden demonic type
stuff
completely forbidden it's completely
forbidden and africans will tell you
if you do that you've gone you've gone
you've you've
turned against god and
that's what i'm saying whenever we talk
about oh
everyone has god we are lying
everyone may has god but something for
some people
that is so submerged in them that what
rules them
is anti-god
you can't say tell me you know this is
where christians maybe think somebody
who goes and kills young girls and why
they are suffering
or young people draws their blood so
that they can live
out of their chemical structure and you
turn around tell me
oh they know god too which god do they
know yeah
yeah i would um i think my mind goes to
like the serpent seed
that are here too um but there's but
there's
there's just people who are deceived who
are normal
normal people who just kind of been
deceived and they chose the path of the
dark side or whatever the case is right
they had a choice somewhere along the
line yeah and i think that i think
that's where we are so
the issue for us i think we as children
of god
is we need to be clear there is
something
in the world that is anti-god
okay there's something that's anti-you
well barry maguire in one of his music
the old
tennessee uh gospel singer
his name is barry mcguire telling his
story says even the
even the cannibal knows the law
because he tells you don't bite me and i
won't bite you
it's a fundamental law yeah so if the
cannibal goes around biting everybody in
this village
is gonna die the law
is not meant in such a way that people
think it is it's a boundary creating
mechanism
that allows you to be able to sustain
your being to its fullest and
allows other people to give you space to
do so
that's good understanding christ told us
the law was about love anyway
loving yourself loving your neighbor
loving your wife loving your children
and
what you know what that looks like it
almost seems though like
as far as like they were almost a
primitive people they had to be
told not to kill somebody versus now
do you think that we're like in what we
would call the new covenant because
nobody has to
tell us like the lord has written his
law on our hearts as our conscience is
testifying
like we don't have to be told not to
steal we don't have to be told not to
kill someone
it's almost like they didn't know that
in the scriptures like they had to have
it written down
hey this god says not to kill
is that the new covenant like when did
that change i feel like there was a
shift somewhere
you have the new covenant are you
actually saying you don't have people in
church don't have that you have to tell
you don't have people
don't treat that person badly
you see what i'm saying what i'm saying
is there is a tendency
when we allow our consciousness to be
overtaken by the environment where we
are
or we allow our basic natures or just
our desire for our personal comfort
and personal protection to become to
become
so ingrained that we treat everybody
else as being lesser than us
it's it's even righteous people okay
if you you do you want me to give you a
biblical example
you consider our father abraham
righteous yet fear
made him sell his wife down the river
so we didn't know now let's be honest
even though we have the new covenant
isn't it your son brothers in the new
covenant that started persecuting you
when you were saying the things you were
saying and even kicked you out of
their grip and said all kinds of stuff
against you
the reason the stuff is written is
because
sometimes the internal clock of people
refuses to yield until there's an
external
speech that comes to them and that
serves to cause their clock
to yield so it's it's god's way of
speaking to you from
multi-dimensional structures you know
so that you don't just leave it you
don't just you don't follow
how you feel there's something outside
of you
that checks how you feel because
sometimes you're justified in getting
angry
right yeah and even in someone the bible
says don't do it
there's an objective principle that
speaks to you in the context of your
subjective processes
if you like you and i can agree if we
don't agree that it is not good for us
to
punch each other to the ground we can at
least go to the scripture says
a man of god must not be cognatious
oh the bible says the man of god should
not be pugnacious he said
don't hit trotsky that's what your mom
told you
you never listened you still hit your
brother
but your mom became the external habitat
of if you hit your brother
i will arbitrate between the both of you
yeah so it's an amazing thing but
we will learn we will learn the holy
spirit is giving to us
to teach us and transfer to us and
transform us
i get angry too i want this on the times
right now and especially as you're
moving in the spirit you notice there
are
times when you know you have the
spiritual power to do something to
someone
oh yeah and you do
but when you learn
that just because you can which is what
your mom told you
doesn't mean you should
yep someone posted here says uh this is
a comment from live learn
and grow says nothing wrong about
stealing as long as you don't get away
with it
no that's wrong as long as you get away
with it that's what
people think right as long as you don't
get caught like
but god sees like it's the it's the
intention of the heart and that's where
that's the whole this whole christianity
thing is god giving us a new heart
you know i think i think i think he's
being sarcastic
yeah yeah no he was for sure
and he's very easy but that's the point
the point is
you know human beings and what we've
noticed
is the reason people like us is the holy
spirit
lives in us but the holy spirit came
from the father to live in us
so even though it's a subjective
principle
the holy spirit is an external objective
and i don't like you know what the
objective but
of a flow an objective flow an outward
flow and an inward flow
so it's not just us making a decision we
are in conversation with the trying
person of the god
we're talking to the father the son of
the holy spirit so they're telling us ah
shifting this when we shift so we really
are
in conversation we're not just making
decisions
just i feel like this you don't do that
because i feel like doing this i'm going
to do it now you go okay
holy spirit what do you think are you
going to spirit room
what does this look like how is it going
to affect
joe who's my very close friend how is it
going to affect
melissa my sister in christ who is only
seven years old in the lord how is it
how's that gonna happen
so 100 um going back to the uh
the ancestor thing um what about
this this idea of helping spirits cross
over whether it's spirits of the
ancestors who were trapped in the ether
who come to you through the dream state
they need to see the light they need to
get into heaven i know you hear all kind
of weird stuff um
spirits of of ancestors but even i i
have friends
who are talking about like getting into
helping demons
uh see the light and things like that
just talk about those two aspects
why the look of disgust brother
father help us
john the chromatin is condemned by the
scripture right
and necromancy is really going
and trafficking with the dead without
the permission
of god
when jesus saw moses and elijah
they came on their own to him
he didn't go to the grave to raise them
to talk to them
it's a distinction
because elijah
moses and abraham
were already in the
waiting for their physical body to be to
come back
so they appeared in a physical form to
him
from the other realm to this realm
here's the first mistake people are
making
when someone dies
it is no longer the job of believing to
minister to them
why because there are other
stains on the other side why are you
over here
doing the work of the saints on the
other side
when you are not doing the work with
your neighbors that are here
that's number one yeah so so
you are you are supposed to be dealing
with the people here
once they cross the threshold that's
somebody else's job and this is the
problem with people they do not
want to actually do their own
job what they want to do is to do
everybody else's job
so now they don't have microphones to
speak in the church they're going to go
try to get microphones
on the other side of the realm okay
two the saints the saints
have the freedom to come to you you are
not the one that goes to look for them
i agree whose job continues
i've met paul and i'm not talking just
vision i'm sitting in
sitting studying and there he is you
know the point the point i'm trying to
have is
but i never went out looking for him
yeah
i've been in the spirit and i've met
people whose names i don't even know
do you know that the saints on the other
side continue to work for the kingdom
why are you trying to do their job
that's number one so this is why i do
not believe and this is my belief system
this
is my belief system because i think it's
logical
okay that people who have
never heard about the lord who die
they don't just go to hell i don't
believe in nassau there's nothing that
they just
run to hell and god does no if they've
never heard the gospel
there are other saints on the other side
who know the lord will minister to them
their administration
to get to know the lord they must have
an opportunity
to understand if they want to love god
or not love god
the human will doesn't get taken away
that's my view okay
i still have you know they they i can't
flush it out in this meeting the next
one is
you trying to say demons
where in the scripture or anywhere else
in
any scripture of any
religion in the world have you been
giving
the job to save demons well some would
say the restoration of
all things and they're joining in that
process as sons of god
so in other words human beings have now
become
things
there's a reason the bible uses things
and not
humans and uh
are not you know they don't use he
doesn't use things he doesn't use humans
doesn't use beans
i'm talking like a theologian now so
where does it say that a human being is
a thing
and here's the first stuff that we're
doing
any being with will any being with
will that
falls must by their own will come to
know the lord
that's number one number two is
how did demons form unless you believe
that demons are human beings who have
fallen
you know and they need to be saved but
why is that your job
how is that your job how is that our job
because you know if the the goal of
the goal of the restoration the goal of
the restoration
of all things
the goal of the restoration of all
things is this
that that everything in the universe
when you come to the fullness of
yourself as the son of god okay
i have i've got an answer for this how
many of them can walk through us
how many of them can see themselves in
more than five places at once
how many of them actually engage angels
and actually see them they're not
talking i'm not talking about imagining
that they're there
how many of them have actually left me
alive they have their body
how many of them have been seen in more
than one place at once by
other people that is not just something
we made up in your mind
so how are they able to save demons
that they cannot even operate at the
very basic level of christianity
and i challenge them to show me
how they've done that and i understand
there's a person that says they've done
all of that stuff
but everything with the monitor in order
to save a demon you have to conjure them
i'm with you i'm with you um
you know i'm actually talking to someone
so the lord is good
you know so but here's the thing here's
the thing yes
i say if you are going to save demons
you have to be able to conjure them and
bring them to you so you're already
involved in witchcraft
well again like we're talking about
maybe the same avenue as the angels when
the angels or if paul or peter comes to
you
i think they're saying that like you
know their uncles are coming to them
and and people like the dead are coming
to them that's the thing i've
kind of just fathomed i know we're not
supposed to contact the dead but what if
the dead
contacts you i know we're not supposed
to contact demons but what if they
contact you i have been doing this for
40 something years i have never had a
dead person come to me
i've seen people who have died on the
other side
with the lord but i've never had them
so so jesus is now alive and no one can
come
back to you yeah
unless they are already in their
glorious state which is they are with
the lord therefore they can
go anywhere they want we are talking
about a sinner a wicked person who has
died
who lives that realm to come to you
this is why these guys have all problems
in their life because they're not they
don't unders
look i'm an african i'm jewish and i'm
an african
as a young person i used to be able as a
kid i used to be able to conjure
demons
you cannot get a demon to come to you
unless you conjure because they do not
come like that
and if they appear to you they are not
praying to you for salvation how many
demons
appeared to jesus for salvation and he
cast more demons out than you
mean if anyone would have given the
example of
even talking to demons about salvation
about the possibility of the mainstay
jesus should have told us that
paul should have told us that
um and here's another and by the way let
me finish this
come from south africans who white south
africans
who don't want to talk to black people
that they live with but they want to go
save demons say to him
right now why are you trying to save
white people the black people in your
neighborhood
you can't even talk to
what the where did jesus tell you to go
save demons or did he tell you to go
save human beings and talk to them about
the salvation
you're right you're 100 right um and
that's what i want to talk about too
because in
you you're mentioning some of the stuff
there's a difference and there's a
growing movement and we have to be
careful because
i think it can it lends to escapism
of not of like putting the
responsibility on
let's go into the spirit let's use our
imagination to engage
angels let's use our imagination to talk
to god and
all of these things versus uh or seeing
demons i mean you hear all types of
of stories that i think is a part of an
overactive imagination
versus something
yeah versus something showing up here
there's a there's a difference when you
i can close my eyes and see seven demons
around you right now or i see
i have ten angels you and any people
look at it like it's
it's truth or whatever we have a lot of
that going on
um and i think it's escapism
i really do i think i think we should
read
what's what's that text in hebrews
hebrews chapter two
let's read this text in hebrews because
i think we all need
we all need a bit of chill okay okay
we need to take a little bit of chill
pill because this is why i like to go
back to scripture hebrews
chapter 2 is one of the best passages to
read
to let these guys tell me
how they know better than god and
the people see chapter 2 says
okay you know
but let's just let's just do this okay
let's just do this
for unto the angels has he not
put in subjection the world to come
whereof we speak but one in a certain
place testifies saying what is man not
what is angel
not what is demon what is man this is
removing
from the valuation of divinity that god
that
the divine the god places of man is
devaluing man
and making him less a target of
salvation
than god intends okay that's number one
but what is man that thou art mindful of
him
all the son of man that thou has
visited him okay thou made him a little
lower than
angels now crown him with glory and
honor and dissent him
over the works of thy hand and by the
way
the enos is human beings who are
actually weak he knows
his man in his weakness god actually
placed the whole world under the weak
man
not on the demons okay thou has put
all things the subject under his feet
talking about jesus of course
but in that he put all things on the
subjection he left
nothing that is not put under him but
now we see
not all things on him but we see
jesus who was made a little lower than
angels
for the suffering of death crowned with
glory
honor that he by the grace of god should
taste
dead for every man jesus did not die as
an angel
jesus did not come to save demons
jesus did not ever make a statement i
came to save him once
okay now so i mean
someone said for god so loved the world
cosmos
we know that okay for both he
that for his sorry for it became
him for whom all things and by uh
by whom are all excuse me in bringing
many sons
unto glory to make the captain of their
salvation perfect
through his suffering for both he that
suffereth and they who are sanctified
are all one
for which cause he is not ashamed to
call them his brethren
saying i will declare thy name unto my
brethren
in the midst of the church will i sing
praises
unto thee and again i will put my trust
in him and again behold i
and the children whom god has given me
now verse 14
for as much then as the children are
partakers of flesh and
blood he also
himself likewise took part of the same
that true death he might destroy
him that had power over the dead
so how did he come to destroy the one
that had power over the devil and now he
was saving the one he came to destroy
see this this is a whole stop he came to
destroy
the works of the devil and he came to
destroy he that had power over the dead
which is devils
so why are you saving devils that jesus
now you are antichrist you're against
jesus
if you're trying to save something that
he came to destroy
you and him are not on the same team
what if they would say that uh restoring
these fallen entities are destroying the
works of the devil as you
like if you convert them over to the
good side we're destroying their power
let's say that that's the case but it
doesn't say just restoring the work of
the devil says destroying the he that
had power over there which is the devil
it says it is the devil that is going to
be destroyed
it never you know it says his work and
himself and remember
in the spirit realm this is the problem
with people in the spirit realm
unlike the fleshly iran a person's
work and his essence become one
the problem with the demonic world is
that is an essential
intertwining it's an intertwining of
essence and evil
when you cannot you are not sin
i can separate unrighteous i can spread
unrighteousness from you
because it's not your essence okay
there is a fall but by making a
deliberate decision
i don't want god and god being a free
being and freedom giving being will
release you from himself he doesn't have
a problem
it's not going to be fought to be man
that's good what the spirit of the lord
is there is liberty and there's a
liberty to choose
that's good thank you free will act of
worship
oh by the way let's let's let's just
finish this for a second because this is
very important okay i almost stopped
and he might destroy him that had power
of death that is the devil
and delivered them with true fear of
death
where all their lifetime subject
abundant for
verily he took not the nature of
angels one of the church fathers said
what he did not take on
he did not say the reason he's saving
nature
is because man came out of nature there
is nothing in mind that came from the
devil
because if if if if god took
a part of the devil and put in man then
the devil will say
man is the measure of salvation you are
the measure of salvation because
you are what you are a summary of all of
the things that god created when he
created the world after those that
after that world had already come you
saving man saving an individual
is talking to the whole universe it's
like his reward too right
yeah reward like he did it for us like
there's a
a powerful price when he bought us with
a price
yeah because he took on the seed of
abraham wherefore
in all things it beholds him to be made
like unto his brethren
he was not made like demons he was not
made like
angels and he might be merciful and a
faithful high priest in things
pertaining to god to
make reconciliation for the sins of the
people for in that he himself has
suffered and linked them that
he's able to secure them okay anyway
he see you and i and rather part of the
issue
bro is that the way god made you and i
we don't know who we are
we don't even understand how much value
god places or not
we're trying to play value on things
without ever understanding
who we are get to know yourself first
then you've got if you know yourself
at that level of god and you say you
want to set the devil then
then let the goddess you
yeah yeah i'm with you no i'm i'm with
you and i have friends who
i mean they they believe in this stuff
but i it's
you know i'm open for the conversation
you know what i'm saying and uh and
that's why i wanted to talk to you about
it
there's one more thing that um i've been
hearing a lot about too
kind of in these mystical movements in
the christian i actually have a
i have a hindu friend of mine who's
really big into this and then it was
weird once i started hearing a bunch of
my christian church friends
talk about it but um it's talking about
physical
immortality um where there's like the
body like we're gonna
like this body is not gonna die like
there's things that we can do
breath work we can stop eating food we
can understand who we are in christ and
then that
by understanding that we won't this body
will will not go back to the earth i
feel like
this is i feel like this is it's going
back to where it came from that that
which is eternal is within us
it's an eternal seed that's within us
this is our spirit man um
have you heard this these doctrines and
i know we have we have mutual friends
who who teach this stuff and
i mean do you believe that i think i
think it's uh i think it's a half truth
there's truth to it yeah but they are
not explaining what is happening because
this skin will slough off yeah okay
it is a possibility that by
accessing the spirit within this body
can be transmuted and translated
but the skin will have to be gone the
body will become a body of light
there is actually what jesus showed us
in the garden was okay here's the thing
we don't have time to do this but let's
let's do a second one because this is
going to just make us [Â __Â ]
sure but i'm telling you there is a
possibility that this body
cannot die not the way it is because
there's an
actual process whereby this body
changes and transmutes itself you can
you can
say that everyone must die on earth then
how do you explain elijah
how do you explain enoch so god always
gives an example but the thing is we
have to learn
what it's like what does what is it like
to talk about that
physical immortality they are talking
about this physical immunity
yeah because the body the body's the
body's
light which is the light of god is
submerged
and it was submerged by god putting skin
over on us
okay this is very important for us to we
must believe
that that this body what the bible means
the bible says not all of us shall sleep
but some of us will be transformed in
the people of an eye one what happens
we become light bodies every time you've
seen angels have seen the buddha from
above their body glows
even the church left paintings with with
with crown with light crowns
running through them they're glowing out
of their body
it can look like this it can change to
look like something else
okay australian consideration is an
example but
everyone who has gone to heaven
elijah moses whose body was taken into
heaven after he
died when jesus was on earth because
that's what jude was talking about
you know so if we don't know the
technology
but there is a possibility that if we
know the technology and we are so
indebted in god that our body can become
distinct can slough off and our clothes
can stop up and our body can become
light bulbs
yeah but if they are saying physical
immortality as justice
no that's not what they're doing because
this this must go back to the earth
where it came from
but the way it goes is that the light
that describes do you realize christ
describes you as light
it's not just a metaphor you really are
light
yeah it's just that the light is not yet
it's not burning
at the level of your divinity
i know i don't know if you've done any
teachings on this but i know like
there's some hindu doctrines that
believe that there is a literal fire
burning inside of your heart which is
like the sacred heart of christ
um that there's a little spark that's
within you
everybody but for believers it's more
than that the
baptist baptism of the fire of the holy
spirit i just finished teaching
yesterday
the baptism of the father of the holy
spirit be sits the
the in the judaism the yakida
the holy spirit runs as fire down your
spine it is not a serpent fire
and it sits there and then does what
burns back into your being
towards god it's a it becomes an
offering of all your being to god it's
in christianity
there are really saints that have that
experience but it's not
kundalini it's not serpent christians
avoid the separate stuff
because it means that the stuff is
getting my
ordinary sexual power to do all kinds of
crazy stuff
but the hours is it comes from heaven
burns through the body
rises back up and releasing waters the
living water out of us that flows out of
our belly but it goes way
up okay it's not just a splash of fire
sitting in here we are baptized
in fire see that's the difference of the
languages
there's one that's coming among you who
will baptize you with the holy ghostland
with fire
and god makes his messengers
what ministers of fire thank you
you are really fiery being but it's not
the smallest fact whenever you know
christians
the bible doesn't take small span
because when moses came down his whole
being was lighted
when jesus was an amount of
configuration his whole being was like
that
do you feel like you know it almost
seems like that
like we have everyone has that spark
right it talks about in in
john that jesus is the light of the
world and he lighteth every man that
come into the world
so every man has a spark and it's almost
like you need a man of god a prophet
an encounter with jesus like jesus blew
upon his
disciples and neighbors it's like you
need someone to fan that flame that is
within you and when you blow on it
it turns into this big
yeah is that you think that's kind of
how it works
that this is the thing and it becomes a
fire from a different source
you know so and you carry that you
and by the way as i believe that you
don't carry a little light
it's not this little light of mine i'm
gonna let it shine it's an
actual fire
you are a flame of fire it's just we
haven't manifested it yet
but you can tell when you're worshiping
someone you're a worshiper
you're someone who worships god and says
what happens what is that stuff that's
burning all over your body where you can
stand
you want to say you're not a fire but
what if you were able to harness that
and all your cells entered into that
same heat
what do you think is going to happen to
your body
we got stuff that christians got stuff
that they don't know about
because the hindus teach it doesn't mean
it's wrong it's just where the sauce is
and i refuse to agree that it comes from
a serpent
it comes from the holy spirit for sure
100 percent
well dr o man hey i really enjoyed uh
building with you on here man i've been
following your work for some time and
it's a blessing to be able to to talk to
you
uh one on one
we definitely have to do it again i'm
open anytime you want to do it man and
uh
shout out to our our brother who who set
this up as well
so uh thank you so much
i hear him he's sitting next to you
annie
yeah hey brother
hey man thank you for setting this up
brother thanks so much man i enjoyed you
guys so um
if people want if people want to connect
in with the ministry they want to get
involved
teachings and all those kind of things
you you have them on the website right i
have them
i have i have so many free stuff on all
on youtube on our website in fact we
have we have a new
new new uh platform called
mysterium
can i write it for you yes
i know i can because it's your it's your
website but
um it's
t mysterious r i o n
dot com uh there's about 300
videos that already been uploaded we're
going to upload about a thousand
but they are topical it deals with
angels topical and passages of scripture
things i've taught for several years for
me for several years
uh that are all in that place and they
help support what we're doing like we're
right now in brussels
doing some work from spiritual work and
we're going somewhere else to do
spiritual work
and god's doing some things so
um we we prefer that people donate by
by purchasing stuff on the on the side
but a lot of the stuff on the other
sides are free you know
well again thank you for coming on
hanging out with me
and uh all the work that you've been
doing as a pioneer for this stuff and
now we can kind of like freely walk into
a lot of the stuff that you fought for
man
so thank you for all the work that
you've done
okay bless you man god bless you all
right
have not been to yet the bay of the holy
spirit we'd love to have you bro and uh
i enjoyed i enjoyed this man would have
to do it again thank you dr o
hello my brother all right shalom many
blessings
that's it ladies and gentlemen the man
of myth of legend
dr oh man so much truth man so much uh
first time talking with them i love to
uh
to have people on here for the first
time and just build with them and versus
you know you get to see an organic
conversation man and really
you know asking questions that i have
and some things that i'm trying to get
to the bottom of and
obviously that's why you know this
podcast is kind of working is just like
been open and honest let me
organically ask you the questions that i
have because i got questions like
i'm a seeker man just like you guys are
and um
and i know what's on your on your hearts
and minds and uh
being someone who you know would listen
to hours and hours of podcast myself
especially coast to coast a.m
it's like they would be on the brink of
a conversation
and then you would wait for the answer
or you would wait for them to ask
like the hard question or the question
that we all want to know and then they
would change the subject
it's like hold on like what are you
doing like you get us on on the
edge and then change the subject and not
ask the question so
that was something that i always wanted
to bring into asking questions because
literally i would reach out to those
guests who were
on coast to coast like i would listen to
a three-hour interview
and then reach out i would email them
call them and get them on my show
and ask the questions that the guests
didn't ask
or the host didn't ask because i
genuinely wanted to know
okay you mentioned this story what about
this you know what i'm saying
so it's it's awesome that uh um you know
we get to open up with with people
and and um i don't think there's been
anybody that i've like kind of asked
wrong questions i don't want to
marginalize anybody either let's let me
get that straight i
i want to you know obviously people have
their own experiences
people have their own encounters in
their own truths and uh
um and just because i don't believe in
something and just because dr oh don't
believe in something
like it doesn't mean mean that you're
wrong or doesn't mean that
you know you you got to work that out
your own salvation with fear and
trembling
um there are some concerns with
everything though you know what i'm
saying we have to
we have to submit all of our views and
beliefs and you have to weigh out the
good and the bad and then judge it if
it's something that you want to
to keep believing or keep doing right
with everything
with this podcast and the type of people
that i interview
like it's something i think about all
the time you know what i'm saying like
everything that you do your belief
systems everything you're teaching
people can run with it and
and fall into you know selfish ambition
or fall into destruction and just use
what you're you know your your liberty
just because you have liberty in that
area other people could fall into
destruction and that's just how
that's how it is but man you got you
have to know who you are
just going back to what dr o said know
who you are first and then teach from
that
but the escapism is real ladies and
gentlemen
um and you have to be able to admit it
what do you escape to
and i escaped to his presence i escaped
to
work put on worship music and i'm
immediately in his presence i run
from from battle i need to take you know
shelter under the shadow of his wings
you know what i'm saying
um it's a place of escapism it's just
definitely and it's supposed to be most
you know this that's where drugs and
alcohol and
all of these other things sex and
promiscuity like that's escapism
you know what i'm saying not dealing
with with your hurt not dealing with the
truth you
escape because you're putting up these
walls and these
uh different things going on in your
mind that you get to escape and not face
reality
it was very interesting he's talking
about like we have a lot of people who
are engaging angels and and and
i've talked about openly i think i'm
with him with angels like i i seek the
father i don't seek angels
but by seeking the father he opens up
doors for you to have encounters
i never go you know and uh and just try
to seek out an
entity or a a dead loved one or a saint
and that's kind of what dr o said like
he doesn't go directly
paul are you there paul where are you
apostle paul come meet with
me no jesus come meet with me i feel
like it's a slap in the face to uh
to jesus and to the father that we have
access freely to him
but we'll settle for second best we
don't want to hear from jesus we want to
hear from paul
paul how do you feel about what i'm
doing in my life today i just
feel like that's how it is we have
direct access to the father um and
that's just
it don't mean i'm right that's just how
i feel you do you
whatever works for you you know escapism
must be working
but but i think it's it's kind of we
fall into this thing of
of of uh denying people truth
again like and i want to i just say this
with love like
if we're winning demons to the kingdom
it's kind of a cop-out for not having to
go out into the world and win people to
the kingdom
i i didn't think about that until he
said it but it's like man
and i have to look at myself again i've
you got to be open and honest like i've
i'm give i have given people like other
alternatives other than the cross to
find
forgiveness and find healing because
you know whether it's because it uh it
takes the responsibility
off of me or or being mocked and laughed
at and ridiculed
oh yeah you can find freedom by doing
this man you got to go to the cross you
got to go to christ
you got to go to the father you know
what i'm saying to be able to teach
people how to do that especially
when people are hostile or they have a
different faith or whatever the case is
obviously there's different modalities
that we tap
into and different things like that but
it's all about
drawing closer to jesus being conformed
into his image the only
thing that's good at me is because he
put it there it's only my righteousness
is of him you know what i'm saying like
anything other than that is that's
filthy rags
it's it's broken like i'm broken he's
he's what makes me whole
we're broken people we're incomplete you
know so
this idea of like sin and um you know
we're already made made perfect and made
whole and
holy and all those kind of things
outside of
christ crucified like that's that's not
the truth man we have to be
there's again the scriptures is plain
to the jews it's a stumbling block
the gospel and to the greeks it's
foolishness it's stupid it's not deep
it's so simple
that they miss it but that's the
peculiar way that god
uh set this up man for us to tap into
the truth of the identity of who we are
through
the cross of christ and this is through
that gate that he is the way the truth
and the life and no man come to the
father
but by him and anytime we try to give
somebody a different way
you know what i'm saying it is it is a
lesser way that person comes in and
it is a liar and a thief now again i
i'm more inclusive as far as i like i
just want to go to where the love is i
want to go to where the fruit is
i want to take off of that tree again if
if you're
you don't have to be a christian like to
to know christ
come on can i get an amen like there's
people i do who i do believe that god
has a people for his namesake all over
the world
and you you you know them by their
fruits man you really do
but but it's not a fruit it's not a a
works based
belief that that we partake in it is uh
salvation by grace through faith lest
lest any man should boast
you know what i'm saying because at the
end of the day the power is
understanding
who we are whose we are and how powerful
we
we we are of just the mysteries of the
depths of the gospel right and who he
says we are and that's what this is this
whole
experience but it's also understanding
that outside of that i can do nothing
so i have to find out what the father is
doing so i can mimic
him i can walk in the light
and not do anything if he ain't doing it
and understanding that outside of that
will this is uh
it's no will at all getting into the
perfect world and the beauty of that is
he allows us to choose
and that's what the beauty of worship
that's why i talk about the power
of worship that we're submitting our
free will that you can worship whatever
you want
people worshiping rocks and mecca those
people worshiping even in christianity
they worship the old rugged cross like
as a symbol like people worship aliens
man they worship all kind of crazy stuff
but we have the free will and ability to
choose no i worship
the one true god i give my adoration
i give my time i can seek after demons i
can conjure
et's i can do all these crazy out of
this world stuff
but i rather draw close to your heart
father and just love on the lord man
that's how powerful it is man
but we we're so easily amused you know
by these other things that kind of draw
our attention away and stuff and so
just bringing it back home man we have
to do that especially right now
people freaking out we trying to give
them like false solutions
we're trying to treat this symptom
instead of going down to the root
of what's causing the ailment
like that's us you know i'm saying we're
mad with the uh
with the uh pharmaceutical industry and
the doctors because they're not
doing this listen in this in the spirit
realm and spirituality and christianity
be mad with your pastors man you know
what i'm saying and
most of us have kind of felt that if
we've been marginalized by the church or
we've
felt like we don't fit in it's because
we seen a truth that wasn't
that that brought us in to the faith
that wasn't evident
anymore in this type of religion or
structure you know what i'm saying i
came into this
by having an encounter with god and i've
kind of grown
and cultivated that
experience and that relationship with
god and then but then we
learn religion we learn rules and
regulations that
don't really cultivate that experience
that we are loved by god
and how much and so just searching the
depths of that man how much we're loved
that's the that's the only place to
start but you take that love of god with
you
into every aspect that you go
when i found out that i was loved man
when when he he came into my life
before that like i i was like plagued by
thoughts of suicide like i was obsessed
with
different and i had this encounter with
god and
got filled with the baptism of the holy
spirit i was never alone again
sitting in my room by with the creator
that created everything that holds this
whole existence together
all of it and drawing closer to that
why would you settle for something less
man you got access man
through what jesus did direct access to
the father man
ahayaba hashem messiah man so good
love you guys thanks for hanging out
with me if you haven't had
uh on patreon and believing in my work
and and helping fun
division here as well shout out to
christy johnson and uh
benjamin as well for the uh for the
donations that came through you guys
rock
love y'all we'll do it again very soon
actually tomorrow got a show lined up
tomorrow it's going to be good too
i'm talking to the viking it's going to
be good
peace peace guys
well that does it for this episode folks
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