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In this episode of The TruthSeekah Podcast TruthSeekah is joined by Dr.O (Adonijah Ogbonnaya) as they discuss interacting with the spirit world as believers and the idea of reconciling demons and fallen angels & Ancestral Communion.
Dr.O says that one of the biggest downfalls of the Christian church is that believers do not truly know the power that they possess in Christ. When the believer does who they are in Christ they will settle for second best and cheap alternatives that lead many astray and away from the truth that is in Jesus.
Dr.O also urges believers to stay away from the practice of reconciling demons, fallen angels and disembodied spirits such as ancestors. He likens the practice to necromancy and says that we do not have any scriptural reference to entertain such practices. Within the soul of every human is the longing for the supernatural yet there is a right and wrong way to engage with the spirit world. We are given many examples within the scriptures of other worldly interaction with beings both malevolent and benevolent. Much like humans these beings can be self-serving and deceiving and others work for God to bring about the greater good for mankind. The folly is when a believer tries to initiate an encounter outside of communion directly with the Father.
I also asked Dr.O about the late African shaman healer Vusamazulu Credo Mutwa whom he spoke highly of his wisdom of African spiritual tradition, folklore and history.

Check out Dr.O’s Work At https://www.aactev8.com/

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[Music] what you [Music] don’t be [Music] right now locked into the truth thick of my gas can be live at your figure god you’re a source for spiritual and inspirational music teachings and medians the show is designed to help you grow in your walk with Christ and advance the kingdom of heaven and now drew pika yo what is up ladies and gentlemen I’m a host true sticker this is the truth seeker podcast man I’m excited and delighted to be with you guys again today for another amazing episode man shout out to everybody holding us down listening to us live in the livestream on YouTube Facebook periscope twitch no matter where you may be listening to us live if you guys have any questions for my guests today make sure you drop them in the comment section and I’ll try to translate them over shout out to everybody who is listening to us on the backend as well on all your favorite podcast listening apps wherever you are listening thank you guys for all the support means the world all the patrons supporters everybody who is partnered with the ministry here who believes in the work that I bring it to the table who enjoys these conversations these eclectic discussions from people across the board with different belief systems and backgrounds and things like that thank you guys for believing in the platform and in the podcast and so everybody who’s been supporting from day one on patreon thank you all the new patrons supporters can’t really name you guys right now because there’s some errors going on with the site and I don’t see all the new patrons supporters but I’ll catch you guys on the next one if you want to support partner with the ministry head on over to patreon comm backslash true seeker there you get access to my entire discography of music which is 200 plus songs you get access to all the new music that I’m putting out before it’s available to the general public also the guided meditations and interactive recordings that I’ve done you get access to that for a certain level our Thursday night school of the Mystics which is the community aspect to what we’re building here you get access to that in our private disc or a bunch of really cool stuff patreon.com backslash true seeker also if you haven’t had a chance check out my book it is here spirit realm angels demons spirits in the sovereignty of God make sure you get a chance to check it out go to troops tiga calm pick that up as well we’re gonna go ahead and jump into today’s discussion I’m excited to talk to my guests been checking out his work for some time now this man is a a pioneer I would say and the modern-day Christian mystical movement I would call it my guest today is dr. Oh dr. Oh welcome to the true seeker podcast brother how are you doing doing really good man welcome welcome to the show thank you thank you thank you so I guess let’s start here I usually like to let people just do an intro for people who don’t know who you are obviously there’s a ton of people here in a chat listening live right now who already know who you are but for those who are new to your work and just kind of give an overview who you are what you bring to the table we’ll start there I’ve been meaning this practically since I became a believer I came from background for Jewish spirituality and became a believer I’ve been preaching the gospel since I was a kid so for over 40 years I’ve been doing this when it wasn’t popular when no one was doing it when I was everything talking about experience and I I don’t like to talk myself but I be I have a strong theological educational background gradually Fremont school of theology at the University Center Claremont in California so without reaching apart from books and mysticism which are I just invited recently operated and returning books academic books that have been used in universities but my heart is to talk about intimate now th the word engage God in a way that transforms the earth and transforms the world hey that’s it man it just I think that covers everything man just this umbrella of love and people experiencing and encountering God and so I think a lot of people are having encounters by themselves you know the natural process that they’re they’re going through and they don’t have a frame of reference for you know they go to the pastors and evangelists and they usually like you said you were labeled a heretic they tell them it’s demonic whether it’s angelic visitations or just these wild far-out experiences that were experiencing as believers and so you you had kind of like the same thing as well coming into that and just being open and honest about your experiences I grew up in a system where where you don’t tell all that stuff Papa lately you know and it saved me a lot from from some things you know but there were some things that you felt compelled to share the first thing I learned and I would talk about it I know most people’s a lot of westerns and everything African is the monitor so but let’s just get it straight you know I was trained how to keep secrets and it’s not in the church to tell you don’t don’t keep secrets but I think a man who doesn’t keep secrets interspersed and the secrets of the Lord I would go see him it is a secret so God can speak some things to you and tell you to shut your mouth on the right time and when you will put it before the time it’s your fault that you were persecuted so I learned that as a child but whenever even with that whenever the truth is shared people do not like to the wrong mind we have a comfort zone to be challenged but my view has always been that if you are the one who God gives a revelation then they the the owners of patience and love and grace towards those who don’t have it it is on you not on that do you think that those experiences go outside of the word though or do you think that if you dig deep enough you’ll find examples and experiences hidden with throughout the scriptures well moving like this to you okay who would we believe the word comes from God right yeah what is God’s nature God’s nature is in fact the word of the being of God and the world in the mayor of God is its unfathomable the reason we don’t know the Scriptures like because the Scriptures we have really looked to the prism of the switcher to look into the heart of the one who the one whose focus you know one one I forget judge rather when they’re having a big argument they kept putting the script is is good he says I do not know the one over hand who works but I know the one who spoke because the word is deeper than that which is written so so think about it it’s a Word of God written in text maybe it was spoken by God first before it was which means it carries Dominica and unless you don’t understand that the scripture is the written incarnation of God’s being which means you can keep searching it why why is it that you are not been doing this for years and yet every time we look at the scripture we see something new you know I learned this and part of the Hippocratic background is that the scriptures are living so that you cannot find me it does not mean it’s not there the disk will just will speak to you according to the level of your maturity because they have just to you not necessarily you are just into them so the more you grow the more the scripture opens up its heaping traitors to you because it’s a living thing so when people tell me you have to experience how much future and I asked okay the word is it is a word even forget the Christian debate about whether it is the will of God or a word of God yeah is it a word of God and if it is a word of God it means it carries the fullness of who God is how can you say that you have an experience outside of the Word of God unless you mean outside of the religious system that’s not the same thing as saying outside the Word of God for you you could wake up one morning and a text that you have you have been reading for the past 20 years all of a sudden is that crying or why you who are you seeing something new because you have developed to the level where it gives up its secret to you what Scripture is it the living thing yeah yeah that’s why it’s important for us to to spend time in in you know with the Living Word and and also the written word as well because it it opens up like you said and the things that we’ve been reading over and a lot of things we skip over and we we interpret it one way but then we’ll watch a movie and the Lord will speak to us and give us a piece and then when we go back and read the word it like opens up to a whole new level because we have a new grid to understand what was being communicated to us for this particular season that we’re in right hey can you come just a little closer to the computer it will pick a little bit but according to the Hebrew people they are 70-72 families of the earth in the scripture was given to the families of the earth then the very basic level of the scripture is 70 72 and most of us never get beyond it second or third level stretch so how can we then say that we know exactly what the scripture says it’s a it’s something that God gave to the world every family of the earth this scripture scripture carries that and as the difference between the Christian scripture and the other structure is that Christian’s completely the Jewish and a Christian scripture since were quickly into the world to the universe to the multi-verse it was which in you know different in and we and sorry for saying like the different Jew and a former gender is that the do believes there is one God and many words the Jedi believe there is many gods and one world that’s the truth Branson yes oh the one God who is who is who is not that one in terms of singularity but who is he who is a movement of being in within himself that is intact that the fundamental in the connection of the universe that God is who spoke that’s what we believe right and the premise where we start is that this God has given us something that speaks to every family on that sodium nobody no no doctor Oh No Pope Francis knows the whole level because it was written to be prismatic to all the families of the earth so it is a height of arrogance for me to say I’ve read the scripture and I’m having an experience that is beyond the spectrum how do you do the Hat is because they where we start is what makes the problem if you have God is a mystery and you are a mystery not just a mystery because our believer your mystery by a big bubble so the God who created us a mystery who made you a mystery so which means you’re gonna keep exploring this stuff the more you know union is not knowing God completely Union is becoming one with God in order to search the nooks and crannies of God forever and ever that’s awesome what what would just die for that what would hinder that pride arrogance thinking that we’ve kind of got it figured out which a lot of us when we get a little bit of knowledge we kind of fall into that early on but then the Lord shakes us out of it because because one of the things I’ve learned will speak for myself one of these arguments is that knowledge personal you know so I have trained myself over and over again to be able to listen to those who don’t know what I know to hear them and people who know me they say they can tell they will tell about telling the truth or not that I would listen to anyone who is preaching the gospel the only time I stand I stand up against people is when they try to bring your foolishness that messes other people’s life are you know because I do know the spiritual world you know if usually someone comes up and tries to make a believer who’s searching for God search for something else yeah I was there yeah you know and that is the devil out of hatred it’s never out of I know yeah I do know better than some people I’m sorry I should that’s not I do know better if I I’ve been in ministry 41 years this year you know so if I don’t know anything when I should stop talking you know but the point I’m trying to make is that that idea of losing the mystery and the wonder of God is what makes it behave that the other one is when we get to the point where we don’t love people you know when we wear our lot of people takes becomes second rule to our theology you know I was the only must be based on love you know doesn’t mean we don’t correct doesn’t leave with all say hey I don’t think that’s right but the heart of law is when it when it begins to be affected and we become bitter we we start treating people as objects that becomes a hindrance who are experiencing that so for me it is it is endeavouring from the depth of your being to love people no matter what they’ve done and a lot of people does not mean condoning of how they admit and I think that that’s what’s different with some what some people are doing they are saying everything’s okay and everything is not okay you know you can love people and loved them deeply and if they ever connect that off to them in a real way you can transmit their life to something deeper but as you’re loving people don’t forget your lawful people doesn’t compel them to lock the back it’s not to respect most people do not there is no intrinsic law that demands that will not do that the only intrinsic law is the law of the wheel you know the law of the wheel you know the law of human which is the law sovereignty of God is what compares a person to not him if you have to compare someone to love you you have diminished ability and the God likeness that’s good with do you see a change with I would say the mystical movement but the body of Christ as a whole that people are growing a little bit more towards love and being more inclusive now versus the us for and no more there’s a lot of I’m moving a lot of the the mystical Christian circles right and it seems like they’re more inclusive they’re more more open but there are some I have to say there are some some gatekeepers who were still like kind of holding on to it’s only gonna be done this way we can’t have no new people in it always happens like that would another generation comes in and those who are able to kind of steward in and raise up sons and things like that but I’m finding there’s a movement of people who would just be more open and honest and and like you know they just open to hear your story and things like that two verses in the church realm you were labeled a heretic and you were you know they would run you out you know most people outside to see I mean I think we keep forgetting the church is a mixture of people judge the mixture of people you and I have mystical experience 80% of our brethren haven’t gotten there yet like I said from the beginning the almost of the love and the tolerance and the capacity to show mercy is on the one who knows we gotta take that the reason Jesus is because the level of his knowledge of the world and who God is and and this is this is what saved me from bitterness I’ve never left the church people leave the church and never have suffered from the hand of the church okay you know the things that that people in the church are doctor actually it was returned back to Judaism but the point is when I once I learned that the burden is not on the people who do not know is on the people who know so I think that’s the most mystics expecting the people who do not mean no – father them to take care of them be careful what you wish for because if you keep it up father in you you’re going to end up where God has already brought you so part of the process and I think this way and I made a lot of young mystics and I tell myself this is what you obviously you’re making it you’re wanting your pastor or the people in who have not had the revelation you have to minister to you and talk to you as if they have in that way you are being unfair to them you know we had to learn that and once I learned that you know the transformation of people around me happened because I had understood Hey this finger who I do not have gotten it in a million years in the grace of God didn’t show it to me so why am i boosting the one question that John the Baptist asked when talking about Jesus’s what do you have that you did not receive and if you who received it why do you behave like you did not receive it it’s to me it always humbles me every time I’ve ever done you know we all get it I had a kid yeah go to you and he never gave it to you for you see another problem a mama I’m a simple African Lu you you there’s a Western American ship smart all these big universities under stable age boy but I’ve been lived as an African in the village I lived in Chicago Illinois Chicago you know I’ve lived in Lansing Illinois I lived all over but I have never seen a tree eating its own fruit that’s good so so I think once once you get the point you know the father has chosen me because my food will feed many and I would become a sacrament to the world as Jesus a sacrament to me almost become a sacrament to other people it’s hard no but nothing is easy they’re gonna bite you instead of taking the fruits they’re gonna try to cut here together but you gotta understand who you following the day or following we do the basic Christian stuff you are not following somebody who could have destroyed the world with the word of his mouth yeah who would have destroyed the temple I know it was metaphoric when he said I destroy it and I’ll build it up in three days but he could have he could have in the garden when they come to arrest him I talked something I said you know when when Jesus was alone in the garden and said to Peter put your sword back to me she wasn’t talking to Peter stop into all the Angelica’s saying hey it’s okay don’t do anything relax and we have to learn that we have to man and part of part of the reason why things like those are also when a big spirits are more tolerant is because we’re beginning to learn some things about hey God trusted me with something I can’t use it to beat my brothers and sisters over the head but it doesn’t mean we don’t know that it doesn’t mean we don’t know truth from error doesn’t move we don’t know truth from life don’t know what you got it the addictiveness from mercy we know what that is sorry I’m talking to notice it’s all good man I think you’re even going back to what you’re saying about just kind of like cultivating that all and wonder for God and for the universe and the things that he’s created versus people you know stifling that you know we’re thinking and you’ve kind of reached this you’ve you’ve come so far that there’s no more than you can learn or whatever would stifle that or we stifle that in in other people which is something that uh you know we’re learning not to do it is definitely you know a responsibility I think integrity is a big part of moving in the mysteries and and and you know the difference between you know Simon the sorcerer and and you know Paul and Peter you know what I’m saying that they had to cultivate it with the life lay down and they in because they did that more was given so for us that’s that’s the plumb line its integrity it’s uh it’s love you know let me ask you this really quick seeing that you come from Africa and things does the name credo moot wha mean anything to you do you are you familiar with that name and he just passed away yeah I know what what do you have any comments about him and his life and what he taught and uh things like that I think man as it relates to the mysteries of the African world which i think a lot of Christians in Africa I have a lot to learn from you know there’s some things that haven’t had we would grow to actually one of his very strong code that used to be the Speaker of the House of South Africa but my channel checker who runs the the school the African the culture of school for religion per se mr. Crozier I have Miami I’m a professor so I’ve talked to people that I need to talk to see part of the issue with a lot of and when we sit the church we should remember we’re talking mostly about charismatic guards we’re not talking about the whole body of Christ and because methods have always claimed the body of Christ the church as if it is their own rightful stuff you know the church is larger than the charismatic you know and so whenever we make those highfalutin sound we are the body of Christ you know we talk about us and Tom speaking in guys and spirit moving as well and mystics are not talking as if they’re the only body of Christ you know the body of Christ includes both the fingernail and the toenail you know as well as the little crevices so you just can’t claim it for yourself there are people in other structures in other churches I mean but it also still talking I think they’re the first ones to speak in drugs maybe OPN Joe does the speaking in tongues for almost 2,000 years and that’s Western as a Western thing when Westerners learned something then this may claim it as their own they discovered it shows yes but the it’s a lot of the optin of studies have I’ve always had this this the college is a word be useful but it is this tongue speaking and framings an ecstatic experience it never stops in my family yeah yeah Lillian is there is a word that as a word a Ethiopian Jews describe people and remember in a second but if you look if you look at you know how these guys have kept that people have always been have been ecstatic experiences the people that didn’t have aesthetic experiences were Protestants the Catholics had it the other dogs had it even the Russian order that people who had experience and they did the church in fact with them over it you know because it was part of the Christian it was part of what happened in the followers of Jesus and everyone was looking to have the same experience but not everybody did so now the Protestants because of the rationalistic process that happened in their management they lost the capacity to have that experience until people like in the way the way the way of mystics unti people like um since enough and the rise for the Methodism and all the exit the emotional experience of religion we know that an issue you and I we are not the only body of a lot of people in Christ you know so the guys who are doing this in the charismatic churches or maybe Presbyterian Church get louder the masters these people who have a recision experience of God and that has become the defining experience of their life and they cannot fathom that God can do anything else except what is done with and the buildin ministry on it our experience and the build administrator of it I’ve never changed what it is because they are not open to new experiences but even with that God uses them based on the experience he gave them to help other people get there it is not the responsibility of the teacher the teacher to get you beyond where he is it’s your responsibility to get beyond where your teacher is it’s good stuff we’re coming up on a quick break I want to go into a little bit more detail on that with you we got a two-minute break right quick well join you on the other side thank you wow so the throne room meditation man this was just like a new level for me of creating encounter really the process behind it is going in for myself having an encounter with the Lord tapping into the spirit and getting in his presence and really just petitioning the father’s heart and saying God what would you say to them if I’m bringing these people with me here if they’re doing this guided meditation and we’re going through this journey we’re having fun we’re seeing things we’re experiencing new feelings and emotions and sensations what would you say to him so it’s channeling the father’s hearts and relating it back to the people so man it’s just a beautiful encounter and I remember when I wrote the first one I was so excited about it and it was just God speaking to my heart I was able to channel the father’s heart and I would read the script to people because I was just so excited while I was working on it and every time that I would just read the script the presence of God would just invade me and I just burst into tears and I couldn’t even read it I’m just like let me copy and paste it and send it to you but every time I listen to it I’m immediately translated back into the throne room of God and everything’s good there and that’s the place where everything is okay where in the scriptures it says that we are to hide under the shadow of the Almighty this is the throne room of God this is the place that we can encounter for ourselves but this is also a place in which we dwell so a part of us is always there and we have access to that not as people who have never encountered this before in their life and it’s a totally new experience for them and almost every time I get a testimony back from someone they just say how God wrecked their lives that they didn’t know what they were getting into the next thing they know they’re in the presence of God wrapped up in his glory he’s communicating his love to them and it just totally wrecks their lives so make sure you check out the throne room guided meditation visualization that I brought to the table I’ll go to troops to get calm you can get more info on that we’re back from the break quick break um man so yeah just to piggyback off of what we just say you know I mentioned credo Mouton we’re talking about you know how big the body of Christ is and things like that and just to kind of stay on that vein for from my awakening experience and just going deeper and deeper there was a video that I seen with Billy Graham who was being interviewed by Robert Schuller on the hour of power and it was just clip where he talks about how they’re talking about this endtime revival and we’ll we see this big massive outbreak in churches and things like that and Billy Graham says no I don’t think we will he says but I do see people come into Christ from all over the world in all different walks of life and he starts talking about how God has a people for his namesake sheep that are not of this fold even who are part of the Hindu world they’re part of the Muslim world they said they may not have even have heard ever the name of Jesus mentioned but they’re part of the body of Christ and it’s more inclusive than we’ve been told for me that that really allowed me to kind of look into other truths and see people as an extension of myself versus us in them and and seeing the fruit like just judging them by the fruit versus judging them by what version of the Bible they had or whatever the case was what would you say to something like that what could somebody like credo moot wha be part the body of Christ they cradle cradle we’ll talk about Jesus so you know he’ll talk about Jesus and what he believes about Jesus now they believe about Jesus doesn’t have to be perfect yeah I think I think we make a big mistake and here’s the problem with christians christians want to force people who do not want to be back of jesus christ to be jesus christ because they think that just because if no they wanted it should be so the danger is isn’t it becomes Western co-optation of all the people in to be a system without be a wheel that’s number one Western people like to do that I love Billy Graham but I think I think it is why that will be true if you thought would you be careful not to do what Westerners do know that time it is for a lot of people do their stuff because that stuff is good you know the easel real there is a real distinction now can Christ appear to other people he did appear to minify become ugly you know I I met Jesus and he appeared to me before I became a Christian I was a kid you know before I before someone even came to preach to me so I knew who he was didn’t know the name you know but when I started hearing upon him my so resounded that that was the person that has appeared to me and over my lifetime I’ve seen the person I believed to be Jesus so many times in my life appearance and I’ll talk a lot about it because it doesn’t give you any special credence you know because they say is it kid it again he says you know to me is like Jesus was passing by and stopped at my house that’s a different so but the point the point is yes there are people in other religions who moving and the issue is there are no to eat fruits the ramble to righteousness so if the person we are following who is the Lord Jesus Christ for me Messiah Yeshua was here he says I am the way the truth they light it means that whenever you find true righteousness a seeking of God usually Christ probably appeared to that person and showed himself mom do we have to nobody in Jesus the language will not be that but this word for salvation in every language okay that for me is the real issue but to to to then say that people who are who reject a concept of righteousness people who reject the concept of who of the idea of truth and the idea of life that that person is a member of the body of Christ I can I can say that and I see I think that’s what people do astray but there are people that that the Lord has appeared to a meeting but unless everything if the thing about this thing we are doing is we are we we stop talking like that we are denying the responsibility of being the manifestation of God upon death that’s what we’re saying okay Jesus you could do it I don’t need to review hundred but for me the screeching I don’t need to expand my being to include and bring the people so they can know that God that I had no God will do himself that’s a lazy man’s religion pressure you know now we do not need to do what people did go first and to convert and you wish and I think Christians should stop and get Jews to convert that’s my view I think they should stop because they don’t need to because without them there would be no Yeshua without them they will know you will not know the way that God loves the world they will still be walking in fighting over stuff but that’s a different thing so then what am I saying I’m saying yes there are people in other religions who we know him but to say that they don’t need to know him in order to be to to to get to know God you’ll be non-dividing loading several categories even even the Hindus have to find out what is the act man what is that scene you will stop that is a pure light and by the time they did that they are now coming to the conclusion of the same person who says I’m the light of the world you get my point you know cradle was not a hater of Christianity he loved Jesus he just didn’t like to what dope and I say on you sure he just didn’t like what the white man have done to black people for sure and the whole rejection of all the righteous myths and the righteous stories of African culture calling everything Africans do witchcraft it’s a different thing to love everyone to be open to everyone to do that everyone as a child of God in the making for the reason I say in the making is because I am an absolute respecter of the human will and is divinity I can’t deny your will because if I do I deny that your God all right so and when Christians try to you know it you know Oprah for example they get up and say everyone is a child of God but what if I don’t wanna be you say even if you don’t want to be you’re still is that the case how can that be the case I don’t want your brother see only human beings will make another person shut the up dog whether they want to or not and God makes peace with it and this is what you don’t want to serve me try it your way then yeah and you when you become like God this is the only become like God the more you let other people make up their mind and not making people not letting people make up their mind is not love is actually satanic because you denying them get the ability you were God I’m almost to let you make up your mind and say well when you start doing something as a witch you know acting like maybe you’ve got God is love God is merciful so truth how come you’re not acting like the God that you are yeah and that’s the thing too so like those other people who have not responded to Christianity or heard the message of the gospel or responded they are also by nature doing things that are producing the fruit that we would call love and peace and grace and mercy like there’s there’s some Hindus who will you know be able to kind of show those attributes way stronger than a westernized churchgoer you know who just kind of shows up and they claim that they’re closer to God then someone else who’s by nature doing the things that are ready written of in the law those kind of things right did you become a child of God by what you do or by your belief system see because now if you do that then you’ve already disqualified those people that you’re still trying to say that just you trying to say righteous because you say that their relationship with God is based on their works see this is a business where Christians contradict themselves I believe that that person who’s doing righteousness we are righteousness for the accounts if they believe that no matter what they do only God’s grace and bring them into whether God but when you when you start saying that because a Christian does not act a certain way that it removes them from knowing God perfection is not the goal of blowing bar the leaf is the with the goal of knowing God faith in God and there are Hindus who believe in God we believe that God is a savior that’s different from the guys to dosa and there’s some people have a more consistent with that than others but we can’t go to the point of saying that because someone does righteous acts and leaves moral life that means they are better than you who believes in bility of human beings shaping the world truly a lot to their faith and their love of God the act is not perfect because it’s not that’s not again how you will lead to your friends how many of your friends are perfect like that maybe it’s not one no no this is my dear friends they believe in you in spite of their imperfection we cannot do this stuff that we are doing when we are saying okay that guy loves me therefore he must be of God I mean witches have love each other so so if I’m going and doing against other people but I’m loving the people around me and caring for and I don’t believe in in the in the fundamental righteousness of all human beings or what what does that do see we and by the way because we’re that believers we need to think from the opposite wing wash his head and hat we just can’t use head and we just can use heart we love we love the world we open to the world but everyone doesn’t have faith everyone doesn’t believe we want to save the world but we can save the world apart from the human wheel we can’t I don’t know I’ll tell you I do believe there are Muslims I know that there are Muslims who are still in Islam who know the Lord who met the Lord and if you are smart you don’t tell them to leave Islam immediately because it’s going to kill them you allowed them to live their life according to the level of the standard in that stuff but it doesn’t mean every person who’s a Muslim knows know just like not every person who’s a Christian knows God and Christianity is a Western term for Westerners he’s not a religion yet it has actually become a culture or category we’re talking about not everyone who calls on the name of Yeshua who calls upon the name of God hey man hey Oh when they say this way buy it but they don’t believe it faith is really serious let me ask you a question because you’re to be about I shouldn’t actually the other person but here’s the thing what did work why did they why was Jesus killed and this is what Christian long answer what does your scripture say is the reason Jesus was killed because he claimed to be God is a doctrine we are not stoning you for the good work that you did we’re stoning you for what you believe in what you said with your mouth so you can say someone who sets of good says this servant is God and someone says God is beyond God is greater than all creation it’s not the same it more with the more we understand and they’re up to keep oh by the way absolutely the people in Hinduism who understand the spirit nature of God who are not caught up in all the 3 million stuff we know they’re out there but who reveal the truth to them as a believer we say didn’t know it because even Jesus entered in his name didn’t know because the light of the world has revealed themselves there are people like that yeah but I think we need to do a little bit more explanation then just say we got to explain the gospel so it’s almost like a way to get around the cross like I don’t have to tell you about salvation and sin and things like that right so we still need to make them enter in through that portal of the cross and understanding like why he died and in the power of the blood and those kind of things that the old rugged cross with believers they do not know what they are what they are gospel carrots it speaks when you hear that the person you’re being told understands your suffering he suffer just that this thing you’re suffering he came and join you and you know a lot of God in the world do not join the people in their suffering that’s the problem with Gnosticism the god of Gnostics do not join there are people in their embodied suffering they don’t come to you and when you say al we your God says what is that you need to overcome your body but when you sit out with Jesus he joins your body so you something to offer humanity is sure is it’s not a condemnation of the world it is good news you everyone can do this and there are people who never repeat your word there are people who know these who are not Christians in the sense of the Western world I agree with you yeah it’s it’s uh the way Billy Graham in them they explained it was saying there was something within them that knew they needed a savior who that they knew that they wasn’t complete and it was only God that completed them and so they you know I guess I guess going back to like you know I’m saying Romans 1 and 2 like understanding that creation itself testifies of God and then there’s people who they don’t know the law they didn’t grow up in Judaism they don’t know what Christianity is but by nature they’re doing they’re keeping the law because you know it’s because the law is about love and they’re walking in in love for for people for themselves for their family for their friends for their enemies even they love their enemies what compassion you know those kind of things I mean I’ve run into the problem to just trying to you know I’m saying just trying to navigate through this stuff of like we try to give people other solutions outside of the cross because the cross is an offense the cross is foolishness you know what I’m saying but for us as the power of God so we’ll try to give them other ways to cope with their problems outside of Jesus right because we want to be accepted or we want to sound more philosophical or whatever when it’s the simplicity of the work that was done on the cross right there’s no way around that see here’s the thing yesterday let’s let’s let’s speak about and I’m going to use Western especially modern Western culture we’re not talking about the old rugged the European culture was suffering was regarded as something that you go through in order to transmit and come on Western idea and everything but that’s not us yes no that’s not the way the West was before so think about it this way a person who’s in Indian grass was suffering is they understand softened they not running away from their suffering this is a view of the perspective of suffering then suffering is understood as being able to transmute and recalibrate the human being no you don’t always have to suffer so they have of the suffering of crack as the suffering of humanity we don’t have to deny that we don’t have to be nine that strong because most people in the world once suffered it to empathize with them you know in that so you’re right Christus you know and he will reveal himself to them why is it that such a mistake is because a lot of people are not Christians in other cultures who are who has seen him with his hand open they only call him the white one yeah not in terms of being a white man with white one one who’s dressed in white who he came to me I saw a white garment you know he appears to them but yet these people still need you to tell him what it means yeah scream good stuff man yeah it’s kind of like you know people well you know we want to be accepting we want to we know that Christianity has had a bad rap and we’ve done a great job at running people away we’re trying to convert them and showing them how to do it and if they mention anything outside of church doctrine you know you know you did a good job of hanging out where it almost seemed like you wasn’t wanted but most of us tuck tail and go start a new church or get church heard or whatever the case is but you stuck with it but a lot of people are looking for the look of ranches and they’re looking for a place where they belong and so but yeah it’s like it’s like if we have the answer but I’m giving you like a counterfeit I’m giving you something it’s almost like the doctor what the doctors do now they treat this symptom versus giving you a cure like I got the cure but it may make me look a little silly you know it’s not as deep and philosophical and spiritual as you may want it but it’s gonna deal with you know your ailment I can treat your symptoms by you know meditation breath work all of these stuffs beautiful but to get down to the core of it we got to go straight to Christ we got to go to the to Jesus to Yeshua and deal with that right every religion including traditional African concept he’s talking about dog coming in our own body you know or talking about God coming into human lives in the skin I’m going somewhere you do is him a person is an incarnation of the of the other world and they lose this body in other the goal is always to enter and become coming to union with God you know everybody is looking for that so why not offer your own solution and give human beings an opportunity to make the choice for themselves why do we act like there is no choice to be made yeah it’s a kiss it’s an offense you know it’s a stumbling block it’s foolish you know and some of us you know we kind of we want to be respected you know those kind of things it’s part of it though right you got to become a fool for his for his namesake and he uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise the problem is that believers even the base don’t know how that’s the problem the real problem is that we see we see people who believe in the Messiah people who believe that God became a human being took all of humanity in a human body we take him and we make him act like they don’t know that God is one of us we did we don’t wanted to have the full experience you know it is Christians that make themself powerless if you fry became a believer in more as a kid I would pass by churches and I would see flames of fires out of the church even churches people didn’t think was at least was a good born again judge it’s something about the principle of the Divine in human form that we are missing here a child of God you glowing right now the fire is all over you you can see it for yourself and most Christians can see it around order believers this is the reason we do not look beyond the veneer we don’t look at the nature of the people around us I get very odd when I would believe us you know and I can always pick out someone who is in that you not to do what they’re supposed to do but I still don’t tell them had no speech we got you got something you know connected if you are your belief which way you are going with you guys are doing with with the young people who haven’t experienced support is the logical progression of Judaism Christianity Hinduism Muslim is the logical progression of human movement towards the divine and to say there’s no difference is not true it’s a difference good stuff man I appreciate that uh and you know that that’s what Jesus saw in people Jesus was able to see their potential and he was able to see to see past you know the scripture says I that man judges by the outward appearance but God judges the heart he was able to look into the soul of a human being if we’re supposed to be able to do that as well right I mean that’s but that’s love that that’s love that’s the pouring God on your movement to propel you towards the fullness of who you are how else am I gonna help you apart from me that how am I gonna support you apart from that yeah hello is that you me from that that’s good let’s get let’s get up man I’m enjoying this this is this is good I think we need to have this discussion more often and I’ve been uh you know and this is something that we all deal with especially mystics right because you wanna people start looking into the New Age or they start looking into other mystical movements that don’t talk about the blood and and Jesus anymore really it’s about angels and about speaking with the dead and the past Saints or whatever and this is we got too deep for the gospel you know what I’m saying the simplicity of it so I always like to revisit that man so we can get a good vision of how we’re supposed to be doing man because it’s this description says you know who has bewitched you from the simplicity it’s like you’ve been beat you know bamboozled somebody tricked you a spirit tricked you out of the thinking that was so simple that you received the theologian the bee was asked at the end of his life was a deity a son who was on things on BBC and they asked him I asked him a question and I said what is the greatest theological less you’ve ever learned it’s a man new route started and could could read the back I was all you know man with this you know it asked him to say what is the greatest lesson you learned he said I need grid distill what he called us and I learned I learned on my mother’s laps and they said what is that jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so you know we keep forgetting we are children of God God chuckles we have God’s babies and he teaches those things according to a stand according to our growth level we shall never forget that the major theological thing is Christ in you the hope of glory it works out we have God is working out his glory in our being all these experiences in gaining angels levitating you know moving through dimensions you know walking bounce pass demons and the catch fire wrong way all that stuff ground some matter of fact God loves you Jesus loves you he gave his life for you the Holy Spirit has brought the love of God to share in your heart humanity is loved by God you know the love of God is not lost but just below you you can do the way the love that God has for Humanity away from us then we still must come to the point when we accept that that we accept that long into our day is all over us I miss all of us that’s good I love it how much time you got what we looking like on time for you next question I want to talk to you because we’re talking about African culture and something that’s kind of coming up a little bit more especially coming into the West and some of us in the mystical movements or whether they’re having experiences or for me it’s more just exploring the word is the fact that people having encounters with their ancestors or their having encounters with the Saints that came before we’re hearing a lot about that we look at Jesus at the Mount of Transfiguration and what’s at Moses and Elijah appeared to him and Peter James and John and they got to meet I feel like that was something that may have been happening more than once in Jesus’s prayer time for hours on in is that something that we should engage in as far as like trying to commune with you know Enoch and Elijah or King David in the heavens or those kind of things what is your view on that as we’re stepping into some experiences like that my view on this is the vision or the duplication between this and all the other realms is not as strong as we think it is it’s a permeable universe sorry permeable more typos you may all the realms are interconnected come over we can go in announce the RAM is not as far as we think it is it is right here it is bad we go in an ironic Ida by process of consciousness I was sold our soul even our physical body presses upon its inner presence a product that that were an interest in and comes out we are we are we are interconnected we are we have time worked around readings okay so we can’t leave that now let’s begin first things first and I’m going to go against my Western Christian Brothers and the question I always ask all the Westerners black or white why are yours and ours are all wicked the single reason that Western Christians must answer and he historico it is not the African who went to your car went to Europe to kill Europeans it is not the African to India to kill Indians it is not African who into America to kill Americans so how come your ancestors are worshipped at spirits and all of us and righteous and all our ancestors demonic that’s a question that the West must answer why why our ancestors equals means like South Africa South African wasting all their way to where raping and killing black women and doing all of the women as I mention all the rings built right yes though so that kind of stuff is what the church must overcome know when I’m sayin there is no white church and there’s no black church support the white Christians who love Jesus must deal with the Africans because because of all the put upon them they get shot in my village and so on so why is it that our ancestors it’s good I mean but I mean so so I would respond to that just because you said the church needs to wake up to that that this seems like there’s a social justice movement the church really isn’t a part of it’s kind of like a natural thing that’s happening like they’re demanding that these statues of these dudes who raped and pillaged and there you know demanding that they take these statues down and change the names of the schools change the names of the streets that are named after some of these people so it’s it’s happening but the church isn’t really you know you know on it look I just want to say to me as an Africa which they don’t even know I’m Jewish by blood see that’s the point they see every black person as having an ancestor that was doing voodoo but voodoo only comes from one part of Africa and that’s the only so how do you then claim all of Africa is doing good you don’t even know what it means and even in the homey there are righteous people who are your ancestors so my point is we are the ones who have to choose our righteous ancestors I have had my righteous ancestors appear to me my family literally means my family name is in a new source of the prophets and you said you said something interesting there you said enough I’ve talked to some mediums who kind of talked about this you said righteous ancestors what about those who were who died in addiction who were wife beaters or killers or rapists what about those guys [Music] the community has remember those who keep the law if you keep the law you shall live by the law and even those who have no law it is a law written in their conscience yeah you know so most cultures have said that they will not be your son man we didn’t have standard of righteousness you know so so we’re now looking at you know my great-grandfather you know my great-great grandfather you know who left us our legacy you know was a man that everyone revered as a righteous man my grandmother died at the age of 100 someday hello why do people in the West say that’s not true probably don’t know any was when she was but she was there when the first white man so let’s talk about that so anyway when she was still a baby so the point that when we’re trying to talk about is you’re looking you are looking at at the redefining whose ancestor is righteous and who is not and it is the community that most divine righteousness you know and this and then we measure it with the scripture you know is it only people in the West were the Ten Commandment all of our Chiefs in my village and our authors exist all have they have to go through the laws or what they should not do in order to be the king so so the West takes as a primitive coach and then cleansed everybody is doing something wrong yeah so living who give drugs to our leaders and told them it was medicine until the man lost this man and went to the market becomes the hero of the European Church he wasn’t even a missionary he wasn’t even a Christian but the church raised among the church raised him up to be a leader to be a saint almost yeah as a problem we have to be more credible even now in political atmosphere people full of politicians forward you know the Liberals are on this side speaking of viewing the stuff they conservatives on the side going with everything that he said is both side so every people every people on earth before they heard the gospel this is where when we come back just have a righteous person that lived in that culture because God has left no family on earth without a witness that’s good when we’re talking about like voodoo and we’re talking about some of the things that we look at as primitive or outside of our frame of reference with Western culture because that’s how we just we think the Bible is written you know for us today or whatever the case is I have a lyric in one of my songs I say I said we break the mold take control of the prophecies were true I say Abraham was involved in a form of Voodoo and there’s an people alike it catches people off guard but to see like Abraham had this encounter with God and then he goes out and kills all these animals and he takes the blood and he makes a circle and he puts all the animals in a circle and he gets in the middle and Yahweh comes to visit him I was like if we seen somebody doing that today we’re saying that’s voodoo you know somebody’s killing chickens and spreading the blood in a circle we’re calling the cops but it’s like we try to interpret it like it’s more of a clean westernized Church thing they would never do that do you think we need to kind of look more to like the primitive ways or the ancient ways I would say when trying to interpret the scripture and spirituality this is where we need discernment because you know I know some things that even we as Jews teeth yeah we got a few of us down and then we’re not in the land who kicked us out God which means that there are certain ways of doing that sacrifice that ends up sacrificing human beings that causes problem which is what all the other nations got into right that’s where you get into that so so it’s not so much you know and I get you that people would consider that would you today but what what most cultures condemn it which is probably what most cultures condemn is the sacrifice of human beings which God the Credo they talked about digging up bodies and having to do rituals where he would drink you know eat take the hand and boil it and drink it and eat the flesh off of a dead body and things like that right and that’s that’s forbidden demonic type stuff tell you if you do that you’ve gone you’ve gone you use you’ve turned against God and that’s what I’m saying whenever we talk about Oh everyone has God we’re like everyone day has gone but something for some people that is so submerged in them that what moves them is anti-god you can say tell me you know this is where Christians in somebody who goes and kills young girls and why they are suffering on young people brush their blood so that they can live out of the chemical structure and you don’t tell me oh they know God to which God do they know yeah yeah I think my mind goes to like the serpent seed that are here too but there’s but there’s there’s just people who are deceived who are normal normal people who just kind of been deceived and they chose the path that a dark side or whatever the case is right they had a choice somewhere along the line this is something in the world that is anti-god okay there’s something that’s untie you well Barry McGuire in one of his music they Tennessee gospel singer is then Perry McGuire telling a story says even a cripple knows the law because he tells you don’t bite me and I will bite you it’s a fundamental law so if the caliber goes are inviting everybody this village is gonna die the law is not meant in such a way that people think it is is a boundary created mechanism and allows you to be able to sustain your being to its fullest and allow other people to give you space to do so that’s good understanding quite Christ told us the law was about love anyway I loving yourself loving your neighbor loving your wife loving your children and what you know what that looks like the it almost seems though like as far as like they were almost the primitive people they had to be told not to kill somebody versus now do you think that we’re like in what we would call the New Covenant because nobody has to tell us like that the Lord has written his law on our hearts as our consciousness testifying like we don’t have to be totally not to steal we don’t have to be told not to kill someone it’s almost like they didn’t know that in the scriptures like they had to have it written down hey God says not to kill that’s a new covenant like when did that change I feel like there was a shift somewhere see what I’m saying is the is a tendency when we allow our consciousness to be overtaking by the environment where we are or we allow our baser nature’s or just our desire for our personal and personal protection to become to become so engrained that we treat everybody else as being lesser than us it’s it’s even righteous people okay do you want me to give you a biblical example yet he made him sell he’s right down the river so we didn’t know even though we happen isn’t it your study brothers in the new covenant that started persecuting you he who we’re saying the things you will say I didn’t pick you up and set all kinds of stuff against you the reason the stuff is written is because sometimes the internal clock of people refuses to yield until there’s an external speech that comes to them and that serves to costly a clock to yield so it is God’s Way of speaking to you from Montana traditional structures you know so you don’t just leave it you know just you don’t follow how you feel there’s something outside of you that checks how you feel because sometimes you’re justified in getting angry right and even in someone besides don’t undo it there’s an objective principle that speaks to you in the context of your subjective processes even I can agree we don’t agree that it is not good for us to punch each other to the ground we can at least go to his practices a man of God must not be publishers oh that one says a man of God should not be pugnacious he said don’t hit you chica that’s what your mom told you but your mom began the external a PETA hit your brother I will have the trade between the both of you yeah so it’s an amazing thing but we will learn we will learn the Holy Spirit is giving to us the teachers and transmitted to us and transform us I get angry – I want attention and especially as you’re moving in the spirit you’ll notice lot of times when you know you have the spiritual power to do something to someone all right and you do but when you relearn that just because you can which is what your mom told you doesn’t mean you shoot yep someone posted here says this is a comment from live learn and grow there’s nothing wrong about stealing as long as you don’t get away with it no that’s wrong as long as you get away with it long as you don’t get caught like but God seems like it’s the it’s the intention of the heart and that’s where that’s the whole this whole Christianity thing is guy giving us a new heart you know yeah now he was for sure you know human beings and what we’ve noticed is the reason people like us is the Holy Spirit lives in us but the Holy Spirit came from the father to live in us so even though is a subjective principle you hope this food is an external objective and I’d imagine objective but of a flow an objective flow and outward flow and an inward flow so it’s not just for making a decision we are in conversation with the triune question of the talk we’re talking to the Father and the Holy Spirit so they are telling at the ar-50 this when we shake it so we really are in conversation we’re not just making decisions just and feel like this you don’t do that you don’t feel that doing this I’m going to do it now you go okay Holy Spirit what do you think are you going to still Graham what does this look like how is it gonna affect Joe who’s my very close friend how’s it gonna affect Melissa my sister in Christ who is only seven years old in the world how’s it how’s that gonna happen so 100% going back to the ancestor thing what about this this idea of helping spirits cross over whether it’s spirits of the ancestors who were trapped in the ether who come to you through the dream state they need to see the light they need to get in heaven honor you hear all kind of weird stuff spirits of ancestors but even I have friends who were talking about like getting into helping demons see the light in things like that just talk about those two aspects why the look of disgust brother father help us the only common sea is condemned by descriptor right and the crow Manson is really going and trafficking with the dead without the permission of God when Jesus saw Moses and Elijah they came on to him he didn’t go to the grave to raise them to talk to the distinction because Elijah Moses Abraham were already in the in the RAM of the Father with the pneumatic body waiting for their physical body to be to come back so they appeared in a physical form to him from the other room to this room here’s the first mistake people are making when someone dies it is no longer big job of the living to minister to them why because there are other savings from the other side why are you over here doing the work of the saints on the other side when you are not doing the work with your neighborhoods that I hear a number one yeah so you are doing supposed to be dealing with the people here once the crowd of the threshold that’s somebody else’s job and this is the problem with people they do not want to actually do their own job what they want to do is they do everybody else’s job so now they don’t have microphones to speak in the church they’re gonna go try to get microphone on the other side of the room okay to the this sense the seconds have the freedom to come to you you are not the one that goes to look for them agree on whose job continues I’ve met poor and I’m not talking this vision I’m sitting in sitting in studying and there he is you know the point the point I’m trying out is but I never went out looking for him yeah I’ve been in the spirit and I’ve met people whose names I don’t even know do you know that the sins on the other side continue to work for the kingdom what are you trying to do their job that’s wrong so this is why I do not believe and this is my belief system this is my belief system because I think it’s logical okay that people who happen never I heard about the Lord who died they don’t just go to hell I don’t believe in that so there’s nothing like that just run to hell and what does she know there are administrators to get to know the Lord they must have an opportunity to understand if they want to love God or not love God the human will doesn’t get taken away that’s my view okay I do not you know I cannot cross it out in this meeting the next one is you trying to save demons where in the scripture or anywhere else in any scripture of any religion in the world have you been given the job to send demons or some would say the restoration of all things and they’re joining in that process as sons of God so in other words human beings have now become things there’s a reason the Bible uses things and humans beings I’m talking like a theologian now so where does it say that a human being is a thing and yes princess stuff that we are doing any being with will any being with you will that falls must by their own will come to know the Lord that’s number one number two is how did demons friend unless you believe that these demons are human beings who have fallen you know and they need to be stabilized that your job how is that your job how is that our job because you know if the goal the goal of the restoration the goal of the restoration of all things the goal of the restoration of all things these days that that everything in the universe will you come to the fullness of yourself as the Son of God okay I have an answer for this how many of them to walk through walls how many of them concede himself in more than five places at once how many of them actually engaged integers and how to receive them how many of them have actually left me alive they have their body how many of them have been seen in more than once by other people that is not something up in your mind so how are they able to save demons that they cannot even operate at the very basic level of Christianity and I challenge them to show me how they’ve done that and I understand there’s a person that says that stuff but demonic in order to save a demon you have to conjure them I’m with you I’m with you uh in a glass you know I’m actually talking to someone so the Lord is good you know so but here’s the thing yesterday yesterday if you are going to save demons you have to be able to conjure them and bring them to you so you’re already involved in witchcraft well again like we’re talking about maybe the same Avenue as the Angels when the angels or if Paul or Peter comes to you I think they’re saying that like you know their uncles are coming to them and and people like the dad are coming to them that’s the the thing I’ve kind of just fathom I know we’re not supposed to contact the dead but what if the dead contacts you I know we’re not supposed to contact demons but what if they attacked you with the Lord but I’ve never had them Jesus is now like no one can yeah unless they are already in their glorious state which is they are with the Lord therefore they can come anywhere they want we are talking about a sinner if we kill person who has done who lives rammed to you this is why these guys have more problems in their life because they are not anonymous look I’m an African and given an African as a young person I used to be able as a kid I used to be able to contact demons you cannot get a demon to come to you unless you conjure because they do not come like that and if they appear to you they are not coming to you for surface a bitch how many demons adhere to Jesus for salvation and it has more demon out than you in the if anyone would have given the example of even talking to demons about salvation about the possibility of the message Jesus should have thought of that Porcia that a lot of come from South Africans who white South Africans who don’t want to talk to black people that believe we better wanna go 16 months Messiah why are you trying to save white people the black people in your neighborhood you can’t even talk what did Jesus tell you the same demons or belittle universal human beings and talk to them about the salvation you’re right you’re 100% right and that’s what I want to talk about too cuz in you you’re mentioning some of the stuff there’s a difference and there’s a growing movement and we have to be careful because I think it 10 it lends to escapism of not of like putting the responsibility on let’s go into the spirit let’s use our imagination to engage angels let’s use our imagination to talk about and all of these things versus or seeing demons I mean you hear all types of stories that I think is a part of an overactive imagination versus something yeah versus something showing up here there’s a there’s a difference when you I can close my eyes and see seven demons around you right now or I see I have 10 angels you and any people look at it like it it’s truth or whatever we have a lot of that going on and I think it’s escapism I really do I think I think we should read that text in Hebrews chapter 2 let’s read this text in Hebrews because I think we all need we all need a bit of chill appeal okay we need to take a little bit of chill pill because this is why I like to go back to scripture Hebrews chapter two is one of the best passages to read to let disguise tell me how did know better than God and the people see chapter 2 says you know whenever legislatures do this let’s just do this paper on to the end has he not put in subjection the world to come where are we speak but one in a certain place testify say what is man not what is King job not what is demon what is man this is removing from the valuation of divinity that God divided crisis of man is the valuing man and making him less a target of salvation and God intends okay there’s more but what is man that thou art mindful of him or the Son of man that thou has visited him okay thou made him a little lower than angels now crown him with glory and honor and descending over the works of thy hand and by the way the image is human beings who are actually weak inertia’s man in his weakness God actually place the whole world on that weak man not on the demons okay thou has put all things subject what is he talking about Jesus of course for in that he put all things on a subjection he left nothing that is not put under him but now we see not all things under him but we see Jesus who was made a little lower than Angels for the suffering of death crowned with glory honor that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man Jesus did not die as an angel Jesus did not come to sell demons Jesus did not ever make a statement I came to save us okay now so I’m ENS o merciful God so loved the world cosmos we know that for both he that for his attorney for it became him for whom all things and by whom are all things in bringing many sons unto glory to make the captain of their salvation perfect through his suffering whatever for both he that suffering and they who are sanctified all one for which cause he is not ashamed to call them his brethren saying I will declare thy name unto my brethren in the midst of the church will I see praises unto thee and again I will put my trust in him and again before 14 as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood he also himself likewise took part of the same that through death he might destroy him that had power over the death of a death that is the devil so how did he come to destroy the one that had power over the devil and now you were sitting to when he came to destroy see this this is a whole stuff he came to destroy the works of the devil and he came to destroy he that had power over the dead with his Devils so why are you saving Devils that dishonor your Antichrist or against Jesus if you’re trying to save something that he came to destroy you and him I’m not understanding what if they would say that restoring these fallen entities are destroying the works of the devil as you like if you convert them over to the good side we’re destroying their power just restoring the walk up it was destroying the lead and had power over that which is the devil it says it is the devil that is going to be destroyed it never you know it says his work and himself and remember in the spirit world this is the problem in the spirit realm unlike the fleshly dran a precision work and his essence become one the problem with the demonic world is that is an essential intertwining with an intertwining of essence and evil when you cannot you are not sitting I can separate unrighteous I can swear on righteousness from you because it’s not your essence okay there is a fall picked up by making a deliberate decision I don’t want God and God being free being and freedom giving we release you from a problem so I’m going to ask her where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty and there’s a Liberty to choose that’s good thank you free will and he might destroy heaping that have power of death that is the devil and delivered them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage for verily he took not the nature of angels one of the Church Fathers said what he did not take on he did not say the reason his saving nature is because man came out of nature there is nothing because if if God took a part of the devil I’m putting man then the terrible second man is the measure of salvation because you you saving man saving an individual is talking to the whole universe it’s like his reward – right yes award like he did it for us like there’s a powerful price when he bought us with a price yeah because he took on the seed of Abraham wherefore in all things it will all seem to be made like unto his brethren he was not made like demons he was not made like angel and he might be merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God to make reconciliation for the sins of the people for in that he himself as sovereign and intended is able to secure them anywhere he see you and I and vital part of the issue bro is that the way God you and I we don’t know who we are we don’t even understand how much you value got places summer we trying to play value on things without ever understanding who we are you could get to know yourself first then you know I’m with you now I have friends who I mean they they believe in this stuff but you know is you know I’m open for the conversation you know what I’m saying and and that’s why I wanted to talk to you about it there’s one more thing that I’ve been hearing a lot about to kind of in these mystical movements in the Christian I actually have a have a Hindu friend of mine who’s really big into this and then it was weird once I started hearing a bunch of my Christian Church friends talk about it but um it’s talking about physical immortality where there’s like the body like we’re gonna like this body is not gonna die like there’s things that we can do breath work we can stop eating food we can understand who we are in Christ and then that by understanding that we want this body one will not go back to the earth I feel like this is I feel like this is it’s going back to where it came from that that which is eternal is within us it’s an eternal seed that’s what then it says our spirit man what have you heard these doctrines and I know we have we have mutual friends who teach this stuff and I mean do you believe that I think I think there’s truth to it yeah but they are not explaining what is happening because this skin will slow so slough off yeah it is a possibility that by accessing the spirit within this body can be transmuted and translated but this skin will have to be gone the body will become a body of lights this is actually it what Jesus showed us in the garden was okay here’s the thing we don’t have time to do this but I’m telling you there is a possibility that this body cannot die not the way it is because they – process whereby this body changes and transmutes itself you can you can say but everyone how do you explain anak so God always gives an example but the thing is we have to learn what it’s like what does what is it like to talk about that physical immortality they are talking about this physical immortality a wrong yeah because body the body’s the body’s light which is the light of God is submerged and he was submerged by the protein skin over on us okay this is very important for us too we must believe that there that this body I’m gonna Bible me Bible says not gonna question sleep but some of us will be transformed in the people of an whatever happens we become light bodies every time you’ve seen angels or single from above the aquatic truths even the child left paintings with with with crime with light crumbs running through them then they be gluing out of your body it can look like this it can change to look like something else his Transfiguration is an example but everyone who has come to heaven like Moses whose body was taken into heaven after yeah when Jesus was on earth because that’s what Jude was talking about you know so you if we don’t know the technology but there is a possibility that if we know the technology and we are so in depth in God that our body can become this thing can slough off another process and our body can become yeah and if they are saying physical immortality has just States no that’s not because this this must go back to the earthquake came from but the way it goes is that the light that disguised you realize Christ is fractious lights is not as a metaphor you really highlight yeah it’s just that the light is not yet it’s not running a level of your divinity no I don’t know if you’ve done any teachings on this but I know like there’s some Hindu doctrines that believe that there is literal fire burning inside of your heart which is like the Sacred Heart of Christ that there’s a little spark that’s within you believers is more than the finished teaching yesterday the baptism of the holy spirit be six the ended Judaism the Yahoo God sits on your head the Holy Spirit wants us fire down it is not a certain fire and it sits there and then grows one Burns back into your be towards God it’s a if it becomes an offering of all your being God it’s in Christianity they are really saints that have that experience but it’s not Kundalini is not serpent Christians are for the serpent star because it means that the stuff is getting my ordinary sexual power to do all kinds of crazy stuff but then ours is it comes from heaven branch through the body and releasing waters the living water out of us that flows are about belly but it goes way up it’s not just the spark of fire sitting in here we are baptized in before I have see that’s the different of the languages the is born that’s coming among you who will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire and God makes his messengers what ministers of fire thank you you have really fire being but it’s not the small fact whenever no Christians the Bible doesn’t teach small span because when Moses came down his whole being was like when Jesus was an amount of configuration his whole being was like you sure like you know it almost seems like that like we have everyone has that spark right it talks about in John that Jesus is the light of the world and he light us every man that come into the world so every man has a spark and it’s almost like you need a man of God a prophet and encounter with Jesus like Jesus blew upon his disciples and it was it’s like you need someone to fan that flame that is within you and when you blow on it it turns into this big yeah that guy you think this kind of this is the thing and it becomes a fire from a different source you know so and you carry that you vital as a believer you don’t carry a little light it’s not this little light of mine I’m gonna let it shine it’s an actual fire you are a flame of fire is just we haven’t manifested it yet but you can tell when you’re worshiping some and you’re a worshiper you’re someone who worships God and says what happens what is that stuff that’s burning all over your body where you can stand you want to say you do another fire but what if you were able to harness that and all your cells enter into that same heat what do you think is gonna happen to your body if we get stuff that Christians got stuff that they don’t know about because the Hindus teach it doesn’t mean it’s wrong it’s just when his sources and I refuse to agree that it comes from a servant it comes from the Holy Spirit for sure 100% well doctor oh man hey I really enjoyed building with you on here man I’ve been following your work for some time and there’s a blessing to be able to talk to you one-on-one we definitely have to do it again I’m open any time you want to do it man and shout out to our brother who set this up as well so here I sit next to you Annie hey brother hey man thank you for setting this up brother thanks so much man I enjoyed you guys so uh if people want if people want to connect in with the ministry they want to get involved teachings and all of those kind of things you you have them on the website right platform called mysterion my is Canara I believe for you yes again is your website but it’s mysterion my st why I am calm there’s about 300 videos I already been uploaded oh good about this house would be a tropical it deals with dangers topical and passages of Scripture things I’ve taught for several years for many for several in it there are alternate place and they help support what we believe we are right now in Brussels doing some work from spiritual work and we’re going somewhere else to do spiritual work and God doing some things so we we prefer that people donate bad by purchasing stuff on the on the site but a lot of the stuff on the other sites are free you know well coming on hanging out with me and all the work that you’ve been doing as a pioneer for this stuff and now we can kind of like freely walk into a lot of the stuff that you fought for man so thank you for all the work I’ve done Alabama Bo the bay is the Holy Spirit we’d love to have you bro and uh I enjoyed I enjoyed this man wouldn’t have to do it again thank you dr. O Shalom many blessings that’s it ladies and gentlemen the man the myth the legend doctor oh man so much truth man so much first time talking with them I love to have people on here for the first time I just build with the element versus you know you get the seal organic conversation man and really you know asking questions that I have and some things that I’m trying to get to the bottom of and obviously that’s why you know this podcast is kind of working is just like been open and honest let me organically ask you the questions that I have because I got questions like I’m a seeker man just like you guys are and and I know what’s on your on your hearts and minds and being someone who you know would listen to hours and hours of pie cast myself especially coast-to-coast am it’s like they would be on the brink of a conversation and then you would wait for the answer or you would wait for them to ask like the hard question or the question that we all want to know and then they would change the subject there’s a hold on like what are you doing like you get us on on the edge and then change the subject and not ask the question so that was something that I always wanted to bring into asking questions cuz literally I would reach out to those guests who were on coast to coast like I would listen to a 3-hour interview and then reach out I would email him call him and get him on my show and ask the questions that the guest didn’t ask or that the host didn’t ask because I genuinely wanted to know okay you mention this story what about this you know what I’m saying so it’s it’s awesome that uh you know we get to open up with with people in and I don’t think there’s been anybody that I’ve like kind of asked wrong questions I don’t want to marginalize anybody either let’s let me get that straight I wanna you know obviously people have their own experiences people have their own encounters and their own truths and uh and just because I don’t believe in something and just because dr. oh don’t believe in something like it doesn’t mean mean that you’re wrong or doesn’t mean that you know you you got to work that out your own salvation with fear and trembling there are some concerns with everything though you know what I’m saying we have to we have to submit all of our views and beliefs and you have to weigh out the good and the bad and then judge it if it’s something that you want to to keep believing or keep doing right with everything with this podcast and the type of people that I interview like it’s something I think about all the time you know what I’m saying like everything that you do your belief systems everything you’re teaching people can run with it and and fall into you know selfish ambition or fall into destruction and just use what your you know your your Liberty just because you have Liberty in the area other people could fall into destruction and it’s just how it is how it is but man you got it you have to know who you are just going back to what dr. o said know who you are first and then teach from that but the escapism as real ladies and gentlemen and you have to be able to admit it what do you escape to and I escaped to his presence I escaped to put on worship music and I’m immediately in his presence I run from from battle I need to take you know shelter under the shadow of his wings you know what I’m saying it’s a place of escapism it says definitely and it’s supposed to be most you know that’s where drugs and alcohol and all of these other things sex and promiscuity like that’s escapism you know what I’m saying not dealing with with your hurt not dealing with the truth you escaped because you’re putting up these walls and these different things going on in your mind and you get to escape and not face reality it was very interesting he’s talking about like we have a lot of people were engaging angels and and and I’ve talked about openly I think I’m with him with angels like III seek the father I don’t seek angels but by seeking the father he opens up doors for you to have encounters I never go you know and uh and just try to seek out an entity or a dead loved one or a saint and it’s kind of what dr. o said like he doesn’t go directly Paul are you there Paul where are you posso Paul come meet with me no Jesus come meet with me I feel like it’s a slap in the face to uh to Jesus and to the father that we have access freely to him but we’ll settle for second best we don’t want to hear from Jesus we want to hear from Paul Paul how do you feel about what I’m doing in my life today I just feel like that’s how it is we have direct access to the Father and that’s just don’t mean I’m right that’s just how I feel you do you whatever works for you you know escapism must be working but but I think it’s it’s kind of we fall into this thing of of denying people truth again like and I want to just say this with love like if we’re winning demons to the kingdom it’s kind of a cop-out for not having to go out into the world and win people to the kingdom I I didn’t think about that till he said it but it’s like man and I have to look at myself again I’ve to be open and honest like I’ve I’m give I have given people like other alternatives other than the cross to find forgiveness and find healing because you know whether it’s because it takes the responsibility off of me or being mocked and laughed at and ridiculed freedom by doing this man you got to go to the cross you got to go to Christ you gotta go to the Father you don’t abstain to be able to teach people how to do that especially when people are hostile or they have a different faith or whatever the case is obviously there’s different modalities that we tap into and different things like that but it’s all about drew drawn closer to Jesus being conformed into his image the only thing that’s good at me is cuz he put it there it’s only my righteousness is of him you know what I’m saying like anything other than that is that’s filthy rags it’s broken like I’m broken he’s dude he’s what makes me whole we’re broken people were incomplete you know so this idea of like sin and you know we’re already it made made perfect and made whole and holy and all those kind of things outside of Christ crucified like that’s that’s not the truth man we have to be there’s again the scriptures is too plain to the Jews it’s a stumbling block the gospel and to the Greeks it’s foolishness it’s stupid it’s not deep it’s so simple that they miss it but that’s the peculiar way that God set this up man for us to tap into the truth of the identity of who we are through the cross of Christ and this is through that gate that here’s the way the truth in the life and no man comes to the Father but by him and anytime we try to give somebody a different way you know what I’m saying it is it is a lesser way that person comes in and it’s a liar and a thief now again I I’m more inclusive as far as I like I just want to go to where the love is I want to go to where the fruit is I want to partake off of that tree again if you’re you don’t have to be a Christian like to know Christ come on can I get an amen like there’s people I do who I do believe that God has a people for his namesake all over the world and you you know them by their fruits man you really do but but it’s not a fruit it’s not a a works based belief that we partake in it is salvation by grace through faith less lest any man should boast you know what I’m saying because at the end of the day the power is understanding who we are who’s we are and how powerful we we are as just a mysteries of the depths of the gospel right and who he says we are and that’s what this is this whole experience but it’s also understanding that outside of that I can do nothing so I have to find out what the father is doing so I can mimic him I could walk in the light and not do anything if he ain’t doing it and understanding that outside of that will this is uh it’s no will at all getting into the perfect world and the beauty of that is he allows us to choose and that’s what the beauty of worship that’s why I talk about the power of worship that we’re submitting our free will that you can worship whatever you want people worshipping rocks and Mecca those people worship Him even in Christianity they worship the old rugged cross like as a symbol like people worship aliens many worship all kind of crazy stuff but we have the free will and ability to choose no I worship the one true God I give my adoration I give my time I can seek after demons I can conjure ETS I can do all these crazy out-of-this-world stuff but I’d rather draw close to your heart father and just love on the Lord man that’s how powerful it is man but we were so easily amused you know by these other things that kind of draw our attention away and stuff and so just bringing it back home and we have to do that especially right now people freaking out we’re trying to give them like false solutions we’re trying to treat this symptom instead of going down to the root of what’s causing the ailment that’s a you don’t say we’re mad with the with the pharmaceutical industry and the doctors because they not doing this listen in this in the spirit realm and the spirituality and Christianity be mad with your pastors man you know what I’m saying and most of us have kind of felt that if we’ve been marginalized by the church or we’ve felt like we don’t fit in it’s because we’ve seen the truth that wasn’t that that brought us in to the faith that was an evident anymore in this type of religion or structure you know what I’m saying I came into this by having an encounter with God and I’ve kind of grown and cultivated that experience in that relationship with God and then but then we learn religion we learn rules and regulations that don’t really cultivate that experience that we are loved by God and how much and so just searching the depths of that man how much we’re loved that’s the but that’s the only place to start but you take that love of God with you into every aspect that you go when I found out that I was loved man when when he came into my life before that like I was like plagued by thoughts of suicide like I was obsessed with different and had this encounter with God and got filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit I was never alone again sitting in my room Bob with the creator that created everything that holds this whole existence together all of it and drawing closer to that why would you settle for something less man you got access man through what Jesus did direct access to the Father man a higher by Hashem Messiah man so good love you guys thanks for hanging out with me if you haven’t had on patreon and believing in my work and helping fund what the vision here as well shout out to Christie Johnson and Benjamin as well for the for the donations that came through you guys Rock love y’all will do it again very soon actually tomorrow got a show lined up tomorrow it’s gonna be good too I’m talking to the Viking it’s gonna be good peace peace guys [Music] [Music] well that does it for this episode folks to hear more episodes of the truth seeker podcast head over to Jessica calm and if you’re wanting to support the show and get rewards go to our patreon page at patreon.com forward slash truth seeker [Music]




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