Healing Trauma With Plants | Neurologist Florian Birkmayer MD
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68CQkOPRdo4
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the mind consciousness and how that
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to plants and that beautiful essence
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spirit realm there is a section in here
about psychedelics and my personal
journey with psilocybin mushrooms and
how they changed my life and propelled
me into my my dream and into my destiny
and how I was able to discover that we
also have some retreats coming up where
we're going to be going out in nature
using Amanita muscaria so if anybody
wants to get in on that go to true
sitcom all the info is there and yeah
read about my story here in this book
people ask me about it all the time
probably talk a little bit about it
today too as well so we're gonna go
ahead and jump into today's episode
my guest is Florian Burke Meyer Florey
and welcome to the show brother how are
you thank you truth seekers thank you
for having me it's good to have you so I
had a amazing talk with your wife and
business part
partner Kathy skipper which was amazing
and she was very passionate about the
work that you guys do and us returning
to nature and our connection to that
that interview got a lot of views and
there was a lot of things that I was
asking her on the show which is like you
need to talk to my husband because this
is right up his alley so it's a blessing
to have you on and if it's any anywhere
around the conversation that I had with
her I know this is gonna be an amazing
episode
well she's amazing so I don't know if I
can live up to that but I'm very excited
and we share this love for the same
topic so I'll do my best so what what's
let's just start here so I know we're
gonna talk about plants and stuff like
that and and how it affects the brain
and in our connection but what what
separates y'all's work like hers is
definitely empathic spiritual
communicating with with the plants I
know and that's just one facet of what
she brings to the table well what do you
bring to the table that kind of you know
fits this this well-rounded picture that
excuse me that you guys are well I think
what distinguishes our work is that we
were working in partnership with the
aromas and other molecules is living
allies I think one thing that frustrated
both of us and especially me is this
wall of separation you know there's us
our ego and then all these material
things out there whether it's you know
molecules that humans have invented like
prozac or all these you know even the
way most people you use herbs is as as
material and I think what our
fundamental illness is as modern humans
is the sense of disconnection and I
think that if we treat nature around us
as an object
as an herb that you can buy in the store
or it's just as material and not the
spirit we're not going to heal that
fundamental disconnection and I think
that's one thing the other thing I think
that's really important is so many
people focus on what's wrong and
especially I'm a psychiatrist by
training I call myself a holistic
psychiatrist and the problem is that you
know if you read the dsm-5 which is the
book of all the diagnoses there's no
definition of what is healthy it's like
there's no way out you know it's I
always say that one of my idols is Carl
Jung and what I like about it what one
Kris central aspect of his work that I
like is that he offers a positive
definition of health you know in in
Western medicine it's like as long as
you're not sick you're healthy which is
a negative definition of health if asked
you how do I get from here to San Diego
you say well don't go that way don't go
that way don't go that way I still don't
know what the right way for it is and
that's how it is in Western medicine
saying oh you you don't have anxiety you
don't know if I blood pressure you
you're fine and the clients like I don't
feel fine so one thing that your office
is that our entire life is an
opportunity to what he called
individuate or what we also like to call
living our personal myth you've you've
alluded to that in your own journey
instead of saying well I'm not sick I'm
fine it's saying every day every moment
is an opportunity to grow evolves become
more fully ourselves I think that
opportunity is what distinguishes our
work and related to that is one of again
one of the gifts for young from young
for me is the idea that you know life
continues to give us challenges and the
opportunities that we transform these
challenges into stepping stones for
growth to say oh I'm never going to be
unhappy again that's not what we signed
up for when we incarnate you know it's
sort of like how do you transmute the
the all the the crud that life throws at
you into the alchemical goal that that's
really the opportunity and that's I
think what makes our work different what
led you in into this work was it dealing
with your own trauma was it just your
own
what was it your own experiences with
with plants or plant medicines or
anything but what was it that actually
lit a fire within you to pursue this
well all of the above so I mean I had
personal trauma which was my mother was
very young when she had me and then had
a miscarriage when I was less than 18
months old and so on a visceral sense
beyond words I know what that early
childhood neglect is I'm you know and
then it was sort of this black hole I
learned to dissociate at a really young
age so I think that was the impetus and
then really only in the last couple
years and through a lot of Kathy's work
I realized that you know my mother
wasn't the origin of that trauma was
transgenerational with her parents and
my father's parents having I mean it's a
huge kind of worms but you know they
they were living in Germany in Austria
during the Nazi era and involved in that
and that I really only I think only had
the wherewithal to begin to understand
in the last few years and then in terms
of my own journey I mean you know I
remember in high school loving physics
but singing well before I can understand
the molecules and the stars we have to
understand ourselves and so in medical
school I wanted to there was this
calling to to be holistic and I felt
that psychiatry could be holistic and I
said you could treat anything from the
molecule to the community now modern
psychiatry has pigeon-holed itself into
just writing pills but that's a whole
nother story and then it was just before
it was around the time of medical school
in the late 90s that I went to my first
priority ceremony and it just met at
that Kierkegaard e'en moment where I was
naked on my knees in front of God and it
was just such a gift and then shortly
after that I had a severe personal
tragedy one of my sisters died in the
house fire and many times people say oh
I lost my face in and I don't mean God
and the Christian sense but sort of you
know the all that we are one of the one
that we're all part of instead of this
tragedy which was awful and and actually
propelled me in my own journey further
it sort of gave me the kick in the rear
to move to New Mexico but it didn't we
my faith in all the unseen realms it
deepened it and then through ceremony my
own work
it's just life's gotten richer and
deeper and richer and then along the way
I discovered her I mean I was interested
in aromas already as a kid my
grandfather had I remember one of the
first essential oil product it was a
swiss product and it just went from
there used soils in medical school to
help me study and then i really you know
one of one of the stories if you like
telling us one of the puzzles i've had
even before medical school is why do we
have dopamine as a neurotransmitter you
know where does that molecule come from
you know what
why would really evolved to include that
molecule in our brain because one of its
breakdown products is actually toxic so
over time we accumulate this toxic
breakdown product in our brain why would
nature design it that way and I realized
that both dopamine serotonin and a lot
of these neurotransmitters were actually
plant molecules long before we walked to
earth and what I came to realize is that
in an evolution is a lot of recycling
but it's more than that
I think it's sort of using the same
protocol so to speak so I think that
both of dopamine and serotonin and all
you know and all these related molecules
which a lot of the psychedelics of
course tickle the serotonin receptors
nature the plants wanted to be sure they
could communicate with us you know we
wouldn't just plop down here
disconnected we evolved in a natural
world where our sense of smell was for
survival but it wasn't just for survival
it was like this deep relationship you
know I'm a backyard beekeeper and it's
so amazing 200 million years ago
flowering plants and pollinating insects
co-evolved together and plants figured
out how you know the one thing that
plants don't have his locomotion so they
figure about how to communicate with
these insects to help them pollinate and
in many ways they did that with us too
we evolved in this natural world
surrounded by all these molecules that
were constantly communicating with us
some of them traveling through the air
you know smells aromas some of them that
we meet through ingesting the plants and
it's it's just it's this
connection this welcome home that our
ego has sort of tricked us into
forgetting so that's why I call the
aromatic molecules the molecules of
connectedness and then I gave you a lot
along roundabout way of answering but
for me this is a lifelong journey there
were all these different strands have
woven together into this deep sense of
connectedness and helping people
reconnect are there some plants that you
let's see you know maybe used for like a
daily regimen that you communicate with
whether it is some of the aromatherapy
whether it is some of the essential oils
and things like that or like a you know
take take like a like a daily vitamin or
something like that that you make part
of your daily routine well the first
thought is that you know I live in Taos
New Mexico with Cathy me live way up on
the mountain and so we're surrounded by
juniper and pinyon and they've really
become my friends I've had many
conversations with them and just waking
up in the morning seeing them walking
outside smelling them I just a couple
days ago I you know Cathy says the same
thing you know if you keep thinking of a
plant it's like it's trying to get your
attention and even though it's middle of
the winter here I keep thinking opinion
so I'm gonna distill some and have some
hydro-zone so just that that daily
acknowledging communication saying good
morning with the plants around us and
you know the nice thing is Janet for an
opinion our aromatics and what I like
about both of them and they're these
survivors and and they remind us that
survival isn't the struggle but this joy
you know when you see opinion its roots
wrapped around a rock in this very dry
barren climate and there's this
exuberance to it and that you know it's
very powerful very protective but
there's also this joy and that's a
really nice reminder when we go on to
that ego pity party oh I you know all
the stresses that pinion reminds me
everyday life is exuberance in terms of
essential oils we always say that it's
better to know three or four essential
oils really well then I have two hundred
oils did not know them and so for years
I carried a bottle of Palo Santo some
soil with me I would anoint myself with
it twice a day
I don't do that anymore because the Palo
Santo told me hey okay we've learned
this close relationship just you know I
still use it sometimes just for personal
use and there's a parentheses here that
I've decided not to use Palo Santo
anymore because it has become endangered
but that's just an example recently I've
just been working a lot with the arrow
essential oil the arrow is a plan that
makes this beautiful blue essential oil
and it actually is related to the myth
of the archetype of the wounded healer
and we feel it's the plant form the
spirit of yarrow embodies the wounded
healer and in European stories it goes
back to Chiron who was a centaur he was
actually a very special Center and he is
the origin of the archetype of the
wounded healer and he taught that the
Greek hero Achilles to use yarrow to
staunch the wounds of his soldiers
during the Trojan War so literally you
can use yarrow you can chew up the plant
and put it on a cut or a scrape if you
have it like Achilles did but it also
helps with psychic wound psychic
boundaries so it's really one of our
master allies and what's really
interesting is that Chiron in English to
wear to surgery but in French and German
the word is Kyoji and so the word
surgery in French and German actually
dissenting that comes from Chiron's name
so he's like the father of surgery but
also he taught the slippiest and then in
the temples of Asclepius the priests
when you were when you went sought
healing at a temple of Asclepius in
ancient Greece you'd spend a night there
in the dormitory and the priests would
release snakes and then in the morning
they'd interpret your dreams so Chiron
is both the father of surgery and of
psychoanalysis
so I use yarrow a lot and then the other
thing I'll just put it out there but the
other thing that's really changed my
life over the last few years is micro
dosing you know with psilocybin and I'm
a little shy about it of course because
I have a medical license but it's it's a
game changer you know it's just again
it's it's this deep relationship with
this teacher and it's it's it's really
in the ongoing relation
ships that you get so many gifts and and
that sense of connectedness everyday
yeah it's beautiful
I don't think there should be any shame
there it's definitely something that's
gaining a lot of popularity I think that
I think you know you would know the you
know the medical study that's out there
and and and the fact that it's something
good and it's helping people in so many
ways
you know micro dose and psilocybin so
it's been something that's been very
very beautiful to me as well and I've
talked about it and uh and yeah it's
getting popular it's you know this
conversation is is it's able to be had
and I've been having it with a lot of
clergy and stuff to people in in
churches and things like that and even
I'm doing my research and there's so
much information out there not even
speaking of John D Allegro that's just
one person but there's so much out there
about you know the mushrooms tie to
Christianity and and the Eucharist even
and and so like I'm doing my research
even and laying in bed and thinking
about it like you said like it's calling
to you it's definitely something that
happens I was like a good year that it
was calling me before I did it but I was
laying in bed and I was thinking about
how there's a scripture in the Bible
that talks about when you partake of the
Eucharist or communion and you're not
worthy to partake of it that you do
drink and eat damnation upon yourself
and so this is something like in just in
the Christian Church it's been like yeah
you what you're not a believer you're
not born again you got hidden sin in
your life and then you're gonna get sick
because the scripture goes on to say
that's why there are many who are sick
among you but we know people who partake
of communion who are unbelievers or
whatever and nothing nothing happens to
them they're perfectly fine so there was
like a download or communication that
came to me was like it's talking about
the psilocybin is talking about the
psychedelic because if you have not done
the inner work if you have hidden sins
in your life if you have things that you
have not worked out when you partake of
the communion of the
Herman you're going to drink or eat
damnation upon yourself you're gonna
have a bad encounter you may see hell
you may experience hell but if you if
you're doing the inner work if you're
making sure that you're on this hero's
journey and you're right where you're
supposed to be and you've been dealing
with the trauma and things like that
you're gonna have a beautiful encounter
and see heaven and maybe even talk to
enlightened beings the angels or
whatever so this connection that's there
and it's been a lot of work that's been
that's been put out ahead of us but it's
a very interesting concept of you know
the the use of mushrooms in any manner
but for it like in Christianity and the
mushroom cults and things like that have
you done any research on that and it
helps do religion it's it's funny that
you mentioned that because the first
thought years ago already I was reading
about the Good Friday experiment which
was one of the seminal experiments and
psychedelics in the late 50s and again
you know there was what it really boils
down to is intentionality and I think
you know I'm a sort of I'm an X
Catholics I'm still in recovery but the
word it's interesting cuz you know sin
can be used as their words that can hurt
or cause harm yeah so what does sin
really mean and I think sin is that we
have a choice and we can either choose
to repeat the unconsciousness the the
trauma is inherited over generations you
know pretend it didn't happen or that
you know that weren't perpetrators in
our ancestry or we can say no I need to
confront this I need to feel this so
that's one level of sin and I think let
me just many things I want to say but
the first thing I want to say is one of
the things I'm convinced about in
reading young and really working with my
own psyches I feel that the psyche the
collective unconscious spirit never
gives us more than we can digest at any
given time but at the same time we know
that unconscious forces like addiction
can destroy us so how do you resolve
that paradox well the way to resolve
that paradox is if we face what our
psyche what's old what spirit gives us
and say okay I'm going to face this I'm
going to feel it then it never
gives us more than we can digest if we
avoid it through addiction and through
all these other patterns through ego
then it will destroy us there is a story
in Young's sort of mythic autobiography
called memories - whose reflection swear
he had this client who refused to go
into his own depth and was became
obsessed with mountain climbing and then
had a mountain climbing accident and
died and Jung felt that his spirit his
soul kept calling him into his depth and
he avoided it by symbolically climbing
mountains and like in a video game at
some point his soul said to him I've
given you so many chances to call you
you haven't listened game over and I
think that's what you're talking about
with when we're not ready to receive
spirit the Eucharist I think it's about
our intention if we do it for the ego
purposes and those are not all I mean
there's sort of a consciously of ego
purposes but the ego also has
unconscious patterns and we encounter
that you know when we encounter spirit
if we're trapped in the ego like you're
saying you know when we're in that
quote-unquote sin yeah ego will throw up
different various what is it it's not
important or you know all that
unconscious stuff all these dreams all
these visions is not important or it'll
say oh it's scary the other thing the
ego officer oh it's too late you know
it's too late to change your ways and
those are all barriers and if we're
really humble and honest we can
recognize those ego barriers as signs
that were going in exactly the right
direction and I agree with you I think
in many traditions you know all over the
world there are psychedelic plants and
even aromas we work a lot with aromas
because you know the ego states a little
more intact but we've seen in our work
when you have aromas that are alive they
change you similar to psychedelics
people you know trauma that's been
buried will come up perspectives will
come up and that's the gift and we have
to open eyes I think that's sort of that
readiness to receive it's just that
intentionality like I'm ready and the
certain humility that I'm open to
receive whatever comes out yeah that
that's one thing that we talked about
when you when you decide to move forward
is that it's gonna make you look at the
stuff that you've been suppressing and
that's the sense
especially this stuff that's hurting you
like even the word repent and coming
from the Christian paradigm repent is
simply turn you know turn from the
things that are killing you if you know
you're in addiction you're inside in a
relationship if there's trauma in your
life it's gonna show it to you the
reason that you've been running people
out of your life is this are you willing
to deal with it and I think I love what
you said it's a gift that it allows us
to see that there's so many people we
talk about this all the time I interview
healers and psychics and people from all
walks of life and people are champion a
champion the inner work like now it's
something sexy now for us to talk about
dealing with ego dealing with trauma
healing our soul wounds and you know
cleansing our family lineage and DNA and
for the sins of our ancestors that we're
paying for now when fixing that so it's
something that's popular right now and I
think that you know just you know what
you and your wife are doing is amazing
because the plants are crying out they
are calling out for us
and we need someone to interpret it for
many people it's a foreign language and
we have no idea what they're saying but
for someone who is who has a
relationship with these plants and with
these teachers we need somebody to
interpret that to the rest of humanity
and I think you know there's so many
people who are doing a great job and you
guys are some of them thank you and I
agree with you as you said nature's
calling us nature's calling us
desperately and the egos just creates
this illusion of separateness so they
it's a big a double forgetting we forgot
we forgot that we were connected and
then we forgot that there was ever such
a thing as connection and oh and and
that's the invitation years ago I had
this elderly client this guy and he was
just complaining about everything you
know just this endless list of all the
things that were wrong in his life and
he was in his 80s you know first of all
be grateful you're alive but this phrase
came through me that I can't take any
credit for other than just hearing it
and saying it to him and that was like
well as he was complaining I said well
this is what the aim
are jealous of us for there is this
unique opportunity when we choose to
incarnate you know I'm in Chinese that
the word for human means between heaven
and earth were both physical and
spiritual and so we have this
opportunity to reconnect from this place
of disconnection remember the old game
pin the tail on the donkey you know you
put the blindfold on and then you try to
pin the tail on the donkey the whole
point of that game is to wear the
blindfold if you didn't wear a blindfold
it'd be the most boring game in the
world oh there's a donkey I'm gonna
stick the tail right there so in a way
when we incarnated we're playing a
cosmic game of pin the tail on the
donkey so we have to sort of start from
this place of disconnection and then
shed the ego and that's that's I mean as
you said nature is everywhere around us
calling us and again that's where I get
I I'm gonna put the word sin in
quotation marks but the ego will say oh
don't go there don't do that focus on
yourself and the awe and the humility in
that that sense of belonging that we
feel when we connect with nature through
aroma through psychedelic molecules
through being in nature you know just
even going into nature for real not just
going to a zoo or a park and saying oh
there's a nice they were really exposing
yourself to nature you feel it enveloped
by it and we all deserve that feeling of
being hugged yeah one thing that I
remember Kathy saying that really stuck
with me was going out in nature emphasis
on by yourself yes going out alone
and so that that was one thing that
stuck with me and since then I had this
this inkling to return back to nature
with fire to go back and just build a
small fire in my backyard and
communicate with fire and things like
that and just being there and being in
nature and it's so beautiful
but then my family joined me as well so
they were able to come out to but it's
something about going out by yourself
that stuck with me one thing that I
asked Kathy to and she had no experience
with this I'm gonna ask you but dealing
with the Amanita muscaria mushroom have
you had any encounters with with that
strand at all there is of course you
know a long European tradition and you
mentioned the Eucharist and the
Christian imagery and there's the work
of Karl rock who I forget the names of
the book now but he went all over
churches in Europe and the iconography
is everywhere and as a little kid you
know there were these folk songs about
I'm Aneta that are you know personify
I'm Aneta
and acknowledge that there's a spirit
and a being there so it was very much in
my cultural field and then I remember
some years ago going mushroom hunting
with a friend of mine near Taos and it
was early in the season and I started
singing one of those childhood songs and
all of sudden I kid you
I mean I didn't see any mushrooms and I
start singing these songs and all of a
sudden the a Meninas popped up every
word so we can communicate with them and
I have I I ingested it once a long time
ago and I think I just wasn't ready so
it I didn't feel much but there are you
know different approaches to it one is
to dry it to turn the muscarine into
five Hydra indolent meaning acid or you
know the other thing is if you have a
reindeer you feed it's a reindeer and a
shaman but you can do that by drying it
too and I believe every teacher really
reveals itself at the time when it's
ready I had the same experience of
singing and talking I had with Apple
anthis Makram Makram era it's it's a
small cactus and near the Mexican border
along the Rio Grande at the nickname is
false peyote or black peyote and again I
was hiking in this very barren beautiful
landscape knowing there was and I
started this conversation in my head
with them and then all of a sudden you
know I couldn't see any and all of a
sudden as the conversation proceeded and
we sort of got to know each other I
realized I've been walking among them
for the last half hour and I have and
all of a sudden I realized I had to be
really careful not to step on them
because they were everywhere so that
deep relationship you can have talking
you can have it through the aroma you
know
plants aromatic but you can you can
communicate on that subtle level they
even even without an aroma or Kathy
wrote a beautiful class I wrote a few
chapters of it called intuitive plant
communication and we can have that
purely spiritual connection with any
plant especially tree is just by tuning
into them and then of course you know
the Eucharist the whole idea of
communing with a plan and that's what's
so amazing about that that plants allow
us to eat them you know I mean of all
the things that could be toxic and stuff
there's all these plants that they're
perfectly okay with us ingesting them
you know similar to maybe it's not
exactly the same with with the
pollinating insects there's this
give-and-take you know the bee makes the
honey and helps to plant along the way
and I think that years ago I would go
walk my dogs every night and every night
this was like engender every there was
this beautiful huge bar owl and you know
and sometimes it would sit on a fence
and we were like maybe six ten feet from
each other and I said we just look at
each other and I told a friend about it
and he said well you realize that owl
needs you as much as you need it the
plants need us to acknowledge them and
there's there's a yeah we need to
acknowledge them also that you know in a
way that's what prayer is and ceremony
is that realizing that there's someone
talking back that it's not just one way
so we get into a lot of the spiritual
stuff and we talked about like
communicating with angels and things
like that and we also talked about the
elements and stuff as well elementals
and the fairies and things that kind of
the spirit behind the elements right and
so people would do like guided
meditations to meet their guardian angel
you know things like that I'll do
meditations to encounter Jesus and
things like that would you would you
suggest doing a meditation in a form of
a prayer to try to communicate in in
nature with the plants who wants to
speak to me who has a message for me
and just kind of put the intention out
there to be open and then how would that
work maybe it would be just like a
download or just some type of impression
that you would receive or it would show
up in
the way in your life how would something
like that work well again it's an
ongoing relationship so it's not you
know like the first time you meet
someone you might not give them the bear
hug that you give your oldest friend so
it's you know the first thing that
happens is you notice it or you think
about it like especially in the desert
one thing I love about living in the
desert there'll be these tiny plants and
if you were in a jungle you wouldn't see
them if you're five feet away and then
they're in the desert these tiny
survivors these little cacti and other
things you can sometimes see them from
like a hundred feet away or even you can
fear they have these tiny bodies in
these huge spirits so if your mind keeps
going to it you know it's already
reaching out to you and then some of
them have learned you know you enter
their field already at a great distance
so you just approach them really
mindfully and almost like ask permission
you know maybe get a little closer and
tune in especially with the big trees we
were we were in Northern California and
the member and these redwoods and it's
like you know being amongst Wales you
can't just go up to it and hug it I mean
you could but III actually like pushed
me over because I was just any that
literally fell over so depending on the
energy of the plan you'll you'll enter
their field feel it and then approach it
with respect and you know every step
closer you takes you know tune in when
there's an aroma you know it's it's it's
helpful because you know we're wired to
smell aromas but don't let it distract
you because the aroma it's not just all
that smells nice the aroma is a vehicle
of it's like a language it's a message
and so then there are you know in in in
Kathy's plan communication class she
talks more about the different stages
and then there's sort of traps in one
trap is sort of having too many ego
experimentations and another trap is
getting like too emotional so we have to
become these empty vessels I always talk
about heart awareness you know the sort
of mental awareness and what we focus
with our predator eyes on something in
heart awareness the other analogy to
that is like what they call the soft
iron horses wages you just like an imp
be best just receive and use much of an
agenda yes you want to meet the plant
but then just leave it
and the plant will show you and then it
you know it's something I would do again
and again and again you know you'll
you'll get information from the plant
and it's it's not necessarily words and
you know sometimes we use words of
course to try and capture it but it'll
be at this much deeper level and then
with a particular communication at some
point you'll realize okay this
conversation is over and and I recommend
keep going back to it over time and what
will happen is that yeah you'll be in
your kitchen and all of a sudden either
if it's an aromatic plant the scent will
just pop into your nose even but it's
nowhere near or you'll think of it like
I mentioned and that's again sometimes a
sign from the plant aid there's
something I need to tell you and then if
you have the essential oil handy grade
or if the plant is nearby go and visit
it and it's it's really a relationship
it's not just a one-off so I think
that's really the essence of
communication is remembering this
relationship and I guess the other thing
related to a lot of what we internalize
in the modern world is rememberable
worthy you know there's often this
though I'm just intellect I'm just eager
I'm not worthy and I think the gift when
the plants open up to us is we are
worthy they're waiting for us that's
good
talk to one of my friends because my my
wife is severely allergic to poison ivy
poison oak poison sumac it it just
spreads it's really and he was talking
about how they're kind of like on the
outskirts of the forest and they almost
serve as the protectors of the forest or
maybe they're protecting this tree or
maybe they're protecting what's behind
it and make sure that you're careful
when you walk through there also
remember back in the day I was working
for the city and we had to weed a big
ditch and we were we'd eaten but we
didn't know any better but we started
weeding elephant ears and we're just
weed eating the elephant ears and then
it burned our skin so bad we had no idea
that what it was gonna do and so there's
these different plants and stuff like
that that are kind of
service protectors would you would you
call some of those plants but protectors
oh absolutely and I think what it is
it's a calling for mindfulness it's like
the Zen monasteries where they beat the
students with sticks while you're trying
to meditate and maybe that's a little
egoic but I think that you know III
thought we didn't have poison ivy in New
Mexico and and my oldest stepson he just
moved here went fishing and got exposed
and ever since then just tuning into the
energy of the plant now when I'm when
we're you know scrambling along the
streams fishing you just get this
intuitive hit and the similar ways with
you know cacti I love cacti I've had
grown cacti at home since I was a little
kid but of course you know you don't
want to get stuck by the spine so you
learn this you know it's always
fascinating about my dogs they'd be
running through the desert and somehow
they never ended up with too many cactus
spines in their paws because there's
sort of like this awareness and I think
it's like you know when you said you
didn't know any better whacking the
weeds it's another way in which to be
aware or like what when people first
moves to the desert you know they get
stuck by cactuses all the time but
cactuses are also these beautiful beings
and so yeah they just teach you how to
be aware and to move the same with the
the poisonous plants you know that it's
there are many different teachers and
it's about awareness and respect it's
not just oh I can ingest any plant or I
can I can roll in a cactus it
each plant teaches us something and it's
it's part of that beautiful network that
we you know there's in in in Celtic
tradition they talk about the weave it's
just you know all that energy that
connected all this sort of like the the
Internet of aromas and plants that's all
around us and we don't need a computer
or a phone to tap into it our being is
our our network and each of them has
something to teach us
and and and you know sometimes the
lesson is a little bit harsher and
sometimes the lesson is more subtle let
me ask you about this too what a
out cannabis and our our brain and
cannabinoid receptors are we made to
communicate with this plant or to ingest
it or process its its chemicals I think
that's that's a huge topic and let me
start someone you know I I have a psyche
a holistic psychiatric practice and then
I really got awake and back in 2015 to
how I was a wounded healer that hadn't
fully dealt with my wound and through
that even though I wanted to be the best
psychiatrist and I'll always be there
for my clients I realized as as good as
I wanted to be I kept the clients
trapped in the client role and so I had
to stop what I was doing but the one
thing I kept continuing to do because I
felt you know having prescribed at that
point psychiatric medications for almost
20 years I actually felt guilty for I
mean I knew at the end I'd most of my
practice was helping people get off meds
but I felt really guilty for all the
damage I'd caused both you know the
literal damage from these psych meds and
also the the spiritual damage because
when you give someone a pill you're
sending them a message he is so messed
up you need to be on medication which is
a really disempowering message so I kept
continuing so and I was one of the first
people in New Mexico to certify for
medical cannabis when the law first
became operational back in 2009 people
found me and it was beautiful because so
many stories of like I had countless
clients that who were completely
dysfunctional you know like who through
cannabis used with the right intention
and I'll get to that later they turn
their lives around you know they one guy
I was I've been labeled schizophrenic
was on all these meds his girlfriend had
taken the kids to Florida then she died
and through cannabis he got things he
got pulled himself together so much that
he got his kids back from the Florida
custody system which is a really
difficult system to deal with there
countless examples one lady that was
working as a stripper because she was so
traumatized the next year when I renewed
her I didn't recognize her she'd become
a realtor I mean she didn't just you
know move up a little bit she like
jumped several rungs on the so she can I
mean and there's countless stories
veterans
that couldn't function who you know
really got their lot and that's when
people say what does cannabis do I would
say the best thing it can do is give you
your life back
now what's happened is you know it's a
healing plant it's had wisdom for
millennia and the problem is that of
course then human ego comes in and says
oh well we can make money off of this
and we can tweak it to fit our needs so
in the one hand you know the industry's
evolving and we're learning more about
how to use it and I'm you know smoking
even though cannabis smoke is about a
cigarette smoke having been in India a
couple of years ago and inhale in are
seeing really bad air pollution
I feel like inhaling with small
particulates it's just not that great so
you know now there's baking and edibles
and the ratio of CBD to THC and even the
other cannabinoids CBG and CBN and so
there's there's a virgin acknowledge but
I think the shadow side of that is that
in a way my wife and I went to look at a
dispensary a few years ago in New Mexico
and the plants were all you know on
these trusses and stuff and with
artificial lights and it was almost like
slavery you know like ROM humans have
taken the healing gift of the plan and
they're turning it into an industry and
I'm Colorado is just north of us and
it's been really good at canonically for
Colorado but there's sort of this Gold
Rush mentality and and that's really the
shadow side of it and this is you know
every being all of us have a gift a
light side and the shadow side and if
you know a little bit about cannabis
it's actually kind of a very it uses a
lot of water and in a way that's the
shadow of it is that greediness and when
you meet people in the cannabis era
there are many people in the cannabis
industry that have really healing
intention but they're also people they
get a little greedy they get like little
and so that's some I think there's great
potential and you know cannabinoids
exist in all sorts of plants and even
whales have cannabinoid receptors so you
know our bodies have cannabinoid
receptors and when we ate a very
plant-based diet we were it's speculated
ingesting cannabinoids all the time that
were regulating our
these cannabinoid receptors on our body
are involved in homeostasis preventing
inflammation I mean they serve all these
purposes so I think if we live in a
healthy relationship with what the plan
can teach us that's something that's
really we've become even more
disconnected from but the shadow side of
that is out of this disconnection people
have taken it and the industry has
become very greedy and I think that you
know like that that a rightful place
where we are in deep relationship to
nature that's again the whole story
about how cannabis ended up on the narco
Harrison narcotics act and how it was
outlawed and how that had to do with the
DuPont chemical company and the racism
of Harry Anslinger you know so there
were at least ego agendas you know
fossil fuel based products we gotta get
rid of him oh and you know similar to
now there was all this racism and so one
way to to feed the racism was that the
state of the Mexicans were using
cannabis and poisoning the youth is a
horrible things this is a sacred healing
plant it's been in many traditions all
over the world and then ego poisoned our
relationship to it and now it's you know
from that place of disconnection and ego
poised and we have to find a way back to
a healthy relationship with cannabis
which i think is important and like any
power plant you know aid not just
cannabis but other plans too it can
possess you you know if you're not
respectful enough you know way that's
what respect and mutual is is sort of to
have healthy boundaries to learn the
lessons without being possessed can
happen with any power plant but we're
sort of finding our way back to that and
along the way of course there's the
industry in the green and lot of life
yeah for sure going back to the Bible
and religion again and this time with
with cannabis there's some study in the
Old Testament where people would say
that the original oils that were made
were made out of cannabis some of the
anointing oil that they would use as a
balm to put on people and to heal people
and to put on their skin and things like
that have you done any research on that
as far
like cannabis in the scriptures in the
Old Testament there's a word that's used
and it's not it's like it's it and I'm I
don't know the exact word I think it's
in Ezekiel have you looked into that at
all
I have I've done a little more research
on what the ancient Egyptians did and
the Romans and I vaguely remember the
Hebrew I mean it's at the tip of my
tongue now but the Hebrew word for
cannabis and again it both the hebrew
word which i don't remember now and and
and even the word cannabis it has to do
with you know it's very useful plant it
has many uses and if I remember
correctly anibus products I forget in
what form were used in the embalming
process for the ancient Egyptians and
related to that again the Egyptians to
me had the most amazing spiritual
technology related to power plants and
specifically aromas you know one of the
power plants that the ancient Egyptians
used cited some topic a little bit as
the Blue Lotus which has an aroma it's a
very subtle aroma it's very hard to
create and you know with as far as I
know there's no one actually making it
right now cuz who knows why but the Blue
Lotus was so important to the Egyptians
that it was actually in the creation
myth you know I mean in Vedic myth of
creation when the sky and the earth
separate their child is the Blue Lotus
it's like the first thing that happens
in the creation of the universe is the
birth of this Blue Lotus and one of the
roles of the Pharaoh was to be able to
ingest more Blue Lotus than anybody else
he was kind of the sacrificial lamb and
once you once you know what the Lotus
looks like it's everywhere in Egyptian
iconography and then of course opium
also you know the the poppy seed pods
are everywhere in the iconography so
they had all these deep relationships
and aromatic why's there's a substance
called labdanum which is the resin of a
bush called the sisters bush and
Egyptian pharaohs would put it in their
beards and in fact the you know the
archetypal terror of his Osiris the
brother of Isis and he has two wands in
his hand one is a crook like a bishops
truck and the other one is what's called
a flail and in fact that was a labdanum
collecting tool and when they put it in
a beer
now you see people you know the all
these guys have beards and there's these
beard grooming products and they'll say
with labdanum but the Egyptians didn't
put it in their beards to look good they
did it as sophisticated spiritual
technology labdanum to us is the master
of the shadow it really brings up the
issues you need to confront that are
buried in your unconscious imagine if
you had like the labdanum in front of
your face like the Egyptian beard at all
times and of course they also use
cannabis and then again the Romans you
know grew cannabis all over Europe and
that was part of chunking topics again
how they they became so successful for a
while you know that they knew what
plants they needed to collaborate with
for rope and ham burner and then it's
only passed down through the Roman
historian I think Leaney but he talked
about the squishy and so there was this
tribe in Europe before there were the
modern countries and he talks about them
doing sweat lodge with cannabis you know
putting the cannabis on the hot rocks in
the sweat lodge and then they'd be
roaring with laughter he said of course
he didn't fully understand because he
was just a Roman guy but there's this
ancient ancient tradition of all these
different ways of using it I don't know
as much about the details in the Bible
but all over the world people have used
it and had been a deep relationship with
it yeah I think it's a Exodus 30 22 and
23 let's see the word here cassia I
think is the word 500 and it's just
telling you how to make this oil to heal
into anointing like you said they would
use it in their beard and things like
that and then you you see the beard oil
stuff coming out really big now two
questions here first one because you
mentioned blue lotus it kind of sounded
like you didn't really a vouch for for
smoking any type of plants like whether
it's tobacco or marijuana using it I've
smoked blue lotus before ordered some
online is that would you would you
recommend smoking it or
or not well I think again to refine that
point and thank you for following up on
that it's again it depends on the
intentionality I you know having gone to
po2 ceremony and having smoked sacred
tobacco with intention I would venture
that if someone only smoked tobacco with
sacred intention only if during prayer
that they wouldn't get lung cancer and
in a way the the the diseases that
tobacco is causing is the shadow of that
teacher plant because people are using
it in an unconscious way like I said
early if use it consciously it'll teach
you if you use it unconsciously can
destroy you you know this is in terms of
smoking cannabis of course it's
traditional way of using it and there is
something about breath and smoke and I
in many spiritual traditions the word
for breath is the same as the word for
spirit it's my mind are you man yeah and
so there's this whole awareness is over
you know the first thing we do when
we're born is inhale the last thing when
we do it when we die before we die is
exhale so there's this whole thing about
conscious breath and communing with a
plan done that way I I think that that
that statement came from knowing that a
lot of my clients that are certified
from medical cannabis didn't like
smoking were worried about it and maybe
needed cannabis so off and you know
because when you smoke it it's active
for about two to three hours but when
you have cancer other chronic or chronic
pain you don't want to be smoking every
couple hours so I think that it's about
the judicious use of it if you if you
smoke with intention in a ceremony I
think that's good but if you're smoking
all day every day it takes a poll and
it's about his audience right now I met
the guy years ago I went to a cannabis
conference and there was this really old
guy who's been studying the effects of
cannabis and smoking cannabis on lungs
for 20-30 years and you know it's not as
it doesn't cause lung cancer it doesn't
cause all the things that tobacco smoke
causes and again I don't mean to knock
tobacco and again tobacco is a plant
that's been enslaved where they're
removing the nicotine adding the
nicotine adding urea
but that's a whole other thing but I
think that
many people just need simple rules if
you know if you have a high need for
cannabinoids in your system because of
chronic illness whether it's PTSD or
pain or cancer
I think ingesting the right cannabinoids
in the right mixture and where it's
what's important is the ratio of CBD to
THC and of course the terpenes that will
be a cornerstone and then you can use
the smoke more intentionally but you're
not constantly chasing the adequate
blood level of cannabinoids so I think
and again I think for people who think I
mean I went to a pain conference a few
years ago and there was a very
mainstream milquetoast doctor there and
he was talking about how they're
ethically or correctly prescribed pain
pills and you know cannabis there's been
studies now the in states for medical
cannabis is available number of opiate
prescription will goes down the number
of people dying from opioid overdoses
goes down and I've seen that firsthand
all these people that were able to come
off both opiates and other meds with the
help of cannabis and then this guy said
yeah but how do you describe a joint or
something and so there's you know that
that stereotype that the only way to
have a relationship with cannabis is by
smoking it I guess that was my point is
that there's we're we're learning all
these other ways of having deep
relationship with the cannabis ingesting
it you know juicing it in raw cannabis
as you know the the cannabinoids are in
the acid form they're not decarboxylated
and recently we've experimented with
using CBD and you can ingest CBD or CBD
a because the body turns it into CBD and
then adding I often tell people to
addled if you're not interested in the
teachings of THC just add a little bit
of THC the boost to CBD because many
people try pure CBD and say oh it
doesn't work well pure CBD is very
poorly absorbed by the body so if you
add a touch of THC yeah it dramatically
boosts the effect that if you just add a
touch and you take a lot more CBD the
CBD protects you from if you're not
interested in the teachings of THC the
CBD will protect you from that but then
recently a friend of ours gave us non
decarboxylated
it's syros and so it was TPA
and that works just as well so for
people that are worried about adjusting
even a little bit of THC in ingesting
THC a with the CBD works really really
well too so this is again these are all
things we're learning as we're deepening
in our relationship with the plant and I
think smoking in a ceremonial way and
then intentional way has a part of that
but for many people you can deepen your
relationship with the cannabis in other
ways too yeah that's that's from the
research that I've done is exactly what
you said but I think that a lot of these
places maybe where its THC is still
illegal they're pushing the notion that
you don't you don't that it doesn't have
any THC in it and you don't need it but
it's like THC is like the inhibitor you
know that kind of gives you you know it
kind of kind of activates it and so
there's all of these people say no it
doesn't have any THC in it it's fine you
as I hold you need THC for it to even
work right absolutely I mean if you look
you know the plant has an intelligence
in the plant both the molecules exist
and you know if it's so but Cathy said
and it's really brilliant is this this
philosophy and I think it's true that
the plants that grow around us create
the molecules we need so if we just see
that cannabis everywhere in the wild the
THC CBD rays show in those plants where
you live would be exactly what you need
and so there's truth again human ego
errors or ego traps as one is that ever
since people figured out the THC is the
mind-altering molecule they've been
breeding these strains human imposed to
maximize the THC Contin and that
imbalance is the plant and the other
thing of course human imposed instead of
saying the geniuses and the whole plant
saying oh it's just a CBD and you know
in a way it's the blessing of the CBD
products that are out and as people are
getting reacquainted with the idea that
cannabis can be healing and very
conservative very mainstream people are
saying oh wow have you heard of CBD so
that's it kind of like their
consciousness is being visited by the
spirit of the plan so it's sort of
opening the door just a little crack and
then they say well what else is there
but again pure CBD products and the
downside is that their human ego the
idea that a single pure moly
kill is better than the whole plant is
again an ego idea that's not true we
know that the spirit and the geniuses on
the whole plant including all the other
cannabinoids and all the other molecules
that are in the plan awesome let me ask
you about this have you done any
research into DDD I don't know what DDD
is so depersonalization the realization
disorder oh thank you OD ID sorry
so dissociative identities are sort of
maybe our names yeah yeah yeah so I say
that because in there's some comments
here someone says that it's not a good
idea to ingest marijuana THC before the
age of 25 I grew up doing it as a kid we
were smoking a lot of weed as a kid and
I experienced you know this this DDD
which scared the hell out of me took a
long time for me to kind of come back to
reality felt like I was trapped in a
dream state nothing was real my mind
worked differently very scary and felt
like I went to sleep and woke up the
next day and still felt like I was in a
dream four months after maybe still a
touch of it now like it's not the same
whether it was to the brain was still
developing you know I'm saying the hyper
campus and still developing and you're
messing with it what is your studies on
that because there's a lot of there's a
lot of research saying that it doesn't
always do it but for a lot of people
marijuana can induce that that state of
DDD yeah so there's many things to say
about that the first thing is to just as
a practical advice even if people have a
lot of experience with smoking cannabis
ingesting it is a different animal that
the product process is it different it's
a different spirit so even if someone is
a heavy smoker of cannabis I would
recommend starting ingesting with a low
dose and getting acquainted with it the
second topic you touch on is again the
whole what is safe for children and I
agree I mean our brain actually
continues to grow throughout life but
there's a very a huge burst of activity
in brain growth in teenage years up to
the mid 20s and
of major psychiatric disorders that's
when they first manifest because
something goes wrong in that growth
process whether it's bipolar or
schizophrenia yeah so I think that
adolescent brains are particularly
sensitive and I think that this is one
of the the problems we have is that you
know we lost the connection with the
ancestors we lost the connection with
being truly initiated you know I've
certainly certified the youngest patient
have a certified was I think a two year
old girl who had sickle-cell anemia and
you know with the pain I'd rather see
with parents who were very educated
about cannabis I'd rather they gave her
tiny amounts of cannabis and put her on
opiates at age two and I've certified a
lot of mostly teenagers with severe
autism and stuff where I know that the
benefits of the cannabis outweigh the
risks but again that is with healing
intention with parents are very much
saying okay we're using this feeding
purpose the problem in modern life again
is you know we don't have any puberty
rights anymore we don't have any
initiations anymore so kids get exposed
and now again the distorted strains the
strains that have been cultivated to
maximize THC which is unnatural and
there's no one to teach them how do you
respectfully use this plan so of course
things go wrong and I looked into this
quite a lot back in the 90s and early
2000s there were several huge studies
that using cannabis and adolescents
increases the risk of psychosis but I
think one of the studies imply that
there were certain people that were
sensitive to it and again the modern
strains for the the THC is just
imbalanced you know THC by itself is I
have sometimes even prescribed Marinol
which is pure THC and I told Foreman
people really don't like it because it
doesn't have the intelligence of the
plant in it so if we could initiate
adolescence in the property is the
respectful and it's the same with
alcohol you know growing up in Europe
and yesterday I mean it's changing now
because they started having binge
drinking in Germany and stuff but you
know when we grew up in Austria the
adults were drinking and you learned how
and you know there's other layers to
that but you kind of
learned and there wasn't a spin
stringing and then I came to college in
the States and my first couple days on
campus I went to all these caterers all
these frat parties and I couldn't
believe what I was seeing it was like
completely alias because if you pick me
up and drop me on Mars the way people
are standing around the Kagan's just
chugging it was completely alien to how
we had been initiated into using alcohol
in Europe and and and and with that
initiation comes all sorts of unspoken
rules I had a friend who grew up in
France and in high school they had wine
for lunch but again you didn't get
wasted you just had a little bit of fine
so you learn how to work with it and you
know there are there are other
dimensions to that but when we don't
have the initiation and and you know
this is same with you know why is
adolescence the rate at the time when
people are prone to psychosis bipolar
schizophrenia and I'll get back to the
dissociation that in a minute in the old
days we had initiation rites and it is
an it is a period of transformation and
modern life is really traumatic you know
even if people didn't touch cannabis or
high THC cannabis during adolescence I
think a lot of them are going crazy from
just living in modern life disconnected
without any guidance without that
relatedness we talk about and if we had
that relatedness and the proper teachers
and initiators then you could you could
learn how to use it properly and in
terms of that dissociation again what
that makes me think of is it has to do
with being initiated is your vessel
strong enough like again for a
psychedelic therapy and in large enough
doses cannabis is can be very profoundly
psychedelic your vessel needs to be
strong enough and it's and that's no
joke you know if your vessel isn't
strong enough and you meet a power plant
it can destroy you it can take you over
and that's all part of that teaching
that we've lost as a culture and and and
again it it applies to cannabis yes and
other life in general it's interesting
you say they're just talking about the
initiation because you know and how how
severe it can be I'm
there were initiations in the ancient
world where if you didn't make it
through you were done you die yes you
died in in the in in the maze you died
and when you had to fight the bear or
whatever it was like there's some really
interesting initiation rites and that
was the thing like and that's how they
kept their warriors they're like look we
we only need you know these these strong
guys who are gonna protect you know the
tribes and things like that's very
interesting and then when it comes in
and then we're also - a lot of times
those are some of the physical things
you would go through but a lot of the
other things it was with the
psychedelics were or eating I've heard
about Native Americans eating a handful
of fire ants and when they they bite
your insides it releases some type of
poison that puts you in some type of
psychedelic trance as well or they'll
let you go through the you know the pure
mid rituals and things like that on
psychedelics and then when you meet you
know the man at the end you really think
he's a monster because he's wearing a
suit and you have to get past them and
all of these really interesting things
and when I this was in 2015 but when I
had my encounter with psilocybin on the
Native American land which is my
heritage it was communicated with me
that this is a rite of passage all of
your ancestors have done this and you're
standing on just like Moses you standing
on sacred ground we've called you here
this is by no accident it's lost it's
it's a lost art but you found it you've
tapped into it and it was the most
beautiful experience of my life that
changed my life but it's definitely a
rite of passage that has been lost in
the West and like you said the college
thing for me in my mind is the only type
of initiation we have hazing experience
experiments and making can you drink the
keg you know all of these weird things
that they do to kind of initiate you
into these fraternity these Greek
fraternities or whatever it's the only
thing close that we have to tease
coming-of-age thing I do remember in in
elementary school a friend of mine who
was a he was a Native American as well
but he missed school for a week because
he was going to
initiation in the desert with his family
he turned I think it was like 10 years
old or something and they brought him
out to the desert and fasted and led him
through this this experience and he came
back and he had I don't know if he had
marks on him or what but he went through
this initiation something that his
elders his grandfather his parents
continued to keep up but it's lost in
the West there's so many things you say
that resonates first of all god bless
you for doing that because you really
felt it and you put yourself through it
so kudos to you because it's you know
that's really the gift and again
psilocybin mushrooms in my experience
that profoundly ancestral they really
get us in touch with the ancestors and
you know one of the books I read a long
time ago that I really liked was Mircea
Eliade this book on shamanism you know
he was a very influenced by yeoman the
one downside in that book is he really
ignores psychedelics because of his own
lack of experience and I think that book
was written in the 30s or 40s but he
talks about that the instrument
initiation is really a death process and
that's really the the archetypal story
and before that death process people who
are called to have the gift often feel
like they're crazy and that's the
flipside of what you know what teenagers
going through is I have several Shami I
mean they don't like the word shaman but
medicine man friends the tribes around
here and they said you know before I
figured out that this was my calling I
thought I was insane I thought I was
going crazy
so again when a young person is
struggling you know now we put them on
an anti-psychotic which is horrible
instead of saying well this is a gift
and it's it's a you know it's it's a
heavy gift to carry but here's how you
can get initiated into it we've lost
that and and I would much rather these
kids that have these experiences being
ishii ated properly and share their gift
instead of shut up and take your pills
you know and that's that's so the nice
thing is you know you're you're you're
one of us and you found you you know
that connection and that's the
opportunity for all of us and a lot of
us we sort of were stabbing blindly
because there's been so cutoff you know
in Europe I read this wonderful book by
Ralph Met
that came out I think 20 years ago
called the well of remembrance and you
know already the Romans were trying to
wipe out the old nature religions and
then you know since 2000 years of the
major religions being suppressed the
press or than being like falsely claimed
I mean that's what often happens is that
people pretend that they have some
ancestral connection like the Nazis with
the Aryans which stay completely made-up
so that's what you often get and I think
that's actually going back to the
college hazing and fraternities we have
that hunger we have that inclination we
have that anatomy in our psyche that
wants that experience and so then modern
forces hijack that for their own
purposes fraternities do it you know
with all these virtual reality and stuff
I think that's what's happening is like
these companies are colonizing our own
conscious you know yeah when we were a
kid we didn't have that virtual reality
the dreams we had the business we had we
could we could go into those realms and
now they're those realms are being
pre-programmed for us and in fact you
know the origins of virtual reality are
these guys the early computer makers
dropping acid but but I think when you
have that genuine experience through
psilocybin through other sacred plant
medicines it's real but when someone
plays the video tape for you it's not
yours and that's something we really
have to be careful of it's all this
virtual reality now because those are
not real there's an agenda there and
they're colonizing our soul yeah that's
good that's good it's a form of escapism
it is fun technology's fun but it's
definitely a form of escapism when any
of this stuff is abused or when you
can't live without any of it right
you're going back again I I say that
about the marijuana thing like can you
can you do a week without it what would
happen like you start the show impulses
you get angry you know what I'm saying
you need the weed it was like to
function to be clear-headed and so I
think that anytime anytime we need
something out I mean I mean maybe the
same with coffee for me you know what
I'm saying like if I go a day or two
without coffee I'm gonna have a killer
headache my body is used to the caffeine
and to the sugar you know what I'm
saying so you're gonna feel the effects
of it but I don't think that we should
bow
anything I think that everything we
should have a relationship with it all
but but as as far as we need it to
survive what we need it every day it
becomes a you know sometimes something
outside of ourselves that completes us I
had a question here from Christie
Johnson wants to know your experience
and knowledge with kratom have you have
you tried khatam and/or have you looked
into it at all it's become scheduled one
here in Alabama now so it was helping so
many people get off of opiates and
heroin addiction but now hey we got
suboxone for you come get it from us
it's illegal like you'll go to jail for
a long time if they catch you with it
well it's it's it's it's interesting as
I had heard about qatal I've tried it
and it's certainly you know again there
are all sorts of molecules and croton
there's a certain intelligence of the
plan but I have over the years it's
extremely rare but I've probably in 20
years encountered a couple people who
then felt they had an unhealthy
relationship with Cromwell you know they
felt they were addicted to it but
overall I think you know in suboxone
again it's a double-edged sword when it
first came out it was such a relief
because it's a partial agonist and I
won't want to bore you with that but I
saw again and again that when he really
listened to people instead of making
them stay in the program forever most
people are able to lower their dose of
suboxone and often come off it after a
while of course the drug companies and
the whole system doesn't want you to do
that and now the Box ons become an
industry so that early promise again was
hijacked in the name of money and its
really sad what's happened to it but the
whole idea of there's a pharmaceutical
that the hidden message is you're so
messed up you need to be on pills and
with kratom used respectfully and again
that's they were there aren't that many
initiations or teachings about it that
I've come across and it's used in all
over Asia so some people it becomes an
ally as you said it helps them come off
the synthetic opiate so the the hardcore
opiates for some people they just don't
know and then you know they develop an
unconscious relationship with it so I
think it's it is an ally for some people
the whole
idea of making molecule schedule one is
just you know I mean how can you make a
plant illegal you know that's just again
such arrogance and again often there's a
hidden agenda because you know there is
such a thing as suboxone or you know
with even with CBD there are all these
efforts to you know the the DEA created
its own category from CBD separate from
cannabis and you know lo and behold six
months later there's a prescription from
a CBD out there so these choices that
put molecules and Schedule one are not
innocent they have an agenda you know I
mean it's it's they're all these
molecules again they can liberate us or
they can enslave us and and and and the
whole thing of what makes a molecule
Schedule one I find really absurd and
it's fights you know in Europe for a
while there was this F I don't know what
the latest is but they were gonna outlaw
all herbal medicine are basically
demanded herbal medicine need the
pharmaceutical standards which you know
if it's an herb that you can collect in
your backyard no-one's gonna go out and
do a study to prove it works but it's
again that disempowerment that
disconnect that relationship we have
with plants is our birthright and then
these companies and powers-that-be try
to insert themselves saying oh you can't
touch that plant that's a Schedule one
plant and you can't have a relationship
and so they become more and more
disempowered you know most people I live
in an Earthship so every day I'm mindful
of you know the Sun and the water and
that relationship and when you live in a
big city on the grid and you know you
just flip your switch to turn the heat
on and you flip the switch to turn the
light on
you're completely enslaved you know it's
like the matrix and and they're these
forces that just want you to be
disempowered and having that deep
relationship with plant where plants can
teach you and you know which plants in
the wild you can eat in which you
shouldn't eat we need to reconnect with
that and and and they're you know who's
keeping us from that the question is
who's benefiting from that yeah yeah
definitely it I mean it's kind of a
no-brainer that we should look into it
why are you telling
me that I can't experiment with my own
consciousness again something that grows
freely that I can walk into the backyard
or into the cow pasture and pick up
these things and but if I'll get caught
with them I'm going to jail for a long
time and you find out that we hear
stories like mine and many people it's
like it pulls you out of the matrix I
hold on like why am i working for this
corporation I don't want to be here I'm
wasting my life and so you want to
pursue your passion they need like oil
in their machine that you know to keep
this thing going and it's almost when
you look see stuff like the matrix and
stuff all the stuff starts making more
sense and it's like we have to unplug
and I think unplugging is returning to
nature you know we're in every way
possible and having a balance thereof I
know at the end of the episode I did
with with your wife we talked a lot
about you know transhumanism and how
we're merging with machines and how even
you know there's a part of it you know I
think it's inevitable you know that's
where we're headed you know but we're
taking advantage of it even now we're
using this we're talking to each other
on on you know different parts of the
planet and there's people listening
right now from all over the world we
just had a comment from someone in
Australia it's three o'clock in the
morning there and they're up watching
this right now so we're using technology
to connect ourselves but it's like they
I feel like there should be a balance
and that balance is worth exploring yes
absolutely I think again it goes back to
intentionality whether we're conscious
or unconscious and with consciousness
comes responsibility I think that you
know just one last comment about the
whole schedule one the whole war on
drugs you know who's benefiting you know
the the company the company that makes
oxycodone in compared to them the
Mexican cartels the Boy Scouts you know
and they they have the lawyers and the
money to control legislation they the
the DEA their hands were tied I mean the
whole war on drugs again is a scam but
they couldn't actually go after the
prescription opiates even though that's
killing more people than all the drugs
coming over the border so there's this
whole there's so many layers to it the
money that people are profiting from
getting people addicted to these more
the kills from keeping people in the
dark about how to respectfully work and
and reconnect to nature and it's really
up to us to unplug from the matrix and
again that's why I think psychedelic
molecules scare people because when you
read about what the army did in the
fifties with with psychedelics you know
and all these people that were
experimenting then had these come to
Jesus moment these spiritual epiphanies
realizing they they they couldn't do it
anymore and you know the unruliness or
the the the beauty of these molecules
they realized and they're not good as a
weapon because they can they don't do
what your ego what the military ego
wants them to do and the characters
involved in that book there's this guy
Sidney Gottlieb who was basically one of
the inspirations for dr. Strangelove in
the movie dr. Strangelove you know this
like a movie villain but he was in real
life and he wanted to use LSD as a
weapon and but these molecules you know
sometimes I wonder why is cannabis
letting itself be exploited the way it's
being exploited now you know and then
with our Oscar like all these people are
offering our Oscar ceremonies I'm like
well you know you really initiate it or
you just sort of turning your own
seeking in and I'm like why is this very
powerful plant is very powerful molecule
allowing itself to be doing this and
then I have to admit while I'm just a
human I don't see the strategy of these
plants but I know they're they're
calling us I know we're being invited
back in yeah and and that's really the
matrix I want to be part of is that is
the matrix of the plans yeah well see
that's the thing about the psychedelic
thing is that you can't abuse them you
might be at abuse marijuana there's some
plants you can abuse you try to abuse
psilocybin watch what happens you try to
abuse ayahuasca watch what happens it's
gonna eat your lunch you know and that's
that that's a respect that they demand
you know what I'm saying and so you
don't go into it lightly because you're
drinking damnation on yourself again
going back to that but they do have the
power to help you to unplug and there's
so much there's a resurgence of all of
this stuff and I think people want
healing people want to ascend to the
next level they want to get out of the
muck and
and stuff that they were born into so
they're having to do the inner work and
there's so many podcasts like this and
documentaries of people whose lives have
been radically transformed through
returning to nature through many
different means you know we're just
discussing a couple of them so so I
guess we can champion that you know and
so that people are doing the work and
there is a resurgence again looking back
at the 60s when it you know the war on
drugs happened like they're trying to
draft people for the war to go fight in
the war and all these hippies are like
Liberator like hell no we're not going
fighting your war no way there's no way
we're gonna go do this and said okay
we're gonna take this from you you know
like a Daleks you know the psychedelics
gave people the awareness to say oh no
we're not gonna fight in this war and
then you know the CIA tried to undermine
the anti-war movement by criminalizing
these molecules and all sorts of so
again it's interesting because
psychoactive molecules have been used as
weapons for a long time I mean and not
all of them you're right psychedelics
are too powerful but you know what every
monarchy is related to I would say
opiates you know the ancient Egyptians
as I said the the jewelry is full of
opium iconography and that's why they
were so rich and could build these
pyramids is because they were dealing
opium and the British took it to the
next level they grew opium in India but
they didn't want the Indians to become
lazy so they sold it in China that the
Boxer Wars you know what's the first
move more on drugs so the Chinese had
stopped selling opium to our peoples
yeah so it's always it has to do with
with these power structures and now
we're being invited and that's the gift
of you know ultimately the Internet and
it's in its infancy was in a career in
technology where we can have this
conversation without an intermediate and
we can connect with people around the
world and of course then become when
he's come in and make it corporate again
Facebook and Google and all that stuff
and but that's not the original spirit
of the internet yeah so we're finding
each other and I think that's the gift
and that's the you know that same
connectedness that the aromatic
molecules that are always surrounding us
flying through the air TARDIS too
psychedelic molecules we're finding each
other
teaching each other and reconnecting to
what's our god-given right that that
inheritance from our ancestors that the
powers that be have tried to disconnect
us from and we're all working together
all over to reconnect but we were like
the mycorrhizae yes when we experienced
even just when we experienced it or we
returned even in us a small way it's
such a huge victory just to know how far
we are separated from it right now our
food isn't even real you know even a lot
of the stuff they tell us this plant
base is not it's just chemicals and
made-up stuff you know so when we touch
nature in any any facet I think it's I
think it's a step in the right direction
again just going outside putting your
feet on the ground or something that I
think anybody can do let me ask you
about this what about kava
have you tried kava or looked into that
at all yeah I mean I spent some time in
Hawaii in medical school and less to be
there you know being a rotation and so
just being a tourist and I've tried kava
and to me it's you know a mild sedative
it's really slows down the digestion so
that's something I don't like about it
but what's interesting is that you know
people have people of Polynesian descent
often have these profound reactions to
it and again there was an initiation of
teaching and when that got lost people
started using kava as an intoxicant and
I remember talking to a nurse years ago
who it worked in the emergency room
somewhere in Hawaii and these people
would come in completely psychotic on
kama it's again it's all about the
respectful use of the plant if we're
initiated into it properly it can teach
us but if we treat it with disrespect
it'll teach us in a different way yeah
yeah I ordered some and try to it I
liked it it did it doesn't seem to last
long I hate those things that don't last
long you do it and it's like preparation
it's like you get 10 minutes of it you
know well you know in terms of the
molecules I let you know carbonyl
lactones which are these huge molecules
like like wow
is that possibly tickling our brain you
know it's like with CBD there's all
these aromatic molecules that mimic CBD
like beta carry alpha lean and so you
know you have two molecules on paper
they look different but then they're
they're dance with our brain is similar
so again what the one thing that
interests me about kava is how was this
huge carbonyl act or molecule what does
it actually do and there's just this
whole universe of you know I mean
there's to me the aromatic molecules are
like a vocabulary like a language you
know and if we have 26 letters in the
English alphabet and there are hundreds
of aromatic molecules out there so
imagine if we had hundreds of letters in
our alphabet the poetry we could write
and similar with the psychedelic
molecules there's just so many of them
and I've been very fascinated by the
relationship between the aromatic
molecules and the psychedelic molecules
and Alexander Shulgin who was an amazing
pioneer he's the guy who rediscovered
MDMA and created dozens of very potent
psychedelic molecules himself has a de
sympathy between certain aromatic
molecule and certain psychedelic
molecules and you know he says you know
it's like you can see nature kind of
winking at you and similarly then I
reread Hoffman's book plants of the gods
and again many of the psychoactive
plants from around the world have
essential oil in them so there's this
deep relationship about these plants
that want to teach us that want to
connect with us both as spirit teachers
as aromatic teachers which to me are
really on the same spectrum now when it
when it comes to you know the scent and
the smell and putting your body in a
relaxed state opening you up and things
like that so many different things that
can happen have you done any research on
the Oracle of Delphi and it was said I
know there's some debate but what I've
read and instead it was saying it was
like ethane and methane gases that were
released and would kind of get them
drunk and intoxicated and they would
kind of prophesy and give fortunes and
stuff like that have you done any
research on that in the Oracle of Delphi
I have been very interested in the
Elysian mysteries which is the story
of Persephone and Demeter and that's
actually a free Hellenic story you know
that before the Olympian gods came along
Persephone was actually called Korra and
we see the same archetype with uh Nana
and Isis but and so part of what
happened in Delphi was had to do with
the Elysian mysteries I mean the results
of louis's where they have the temple
there but it's this idea of journeying
into the underworld to transform and
that involves the ego death that we
talked about in terms of what the active
principle was that's been speculated
there is this idea that there are these
fumes rising from the earth there and
that those could be used as
mind-altering molecules and that's one
theory the other theories that they use
psilocybin mushrooms that they used even
fly agaric mushrooms
you know Hofmann and and and a lot of
the early psychedelic pioneers
speculated about that and in a way it's
you know what it actually was isn't that
important because it's just it reminds
us about the importance of ritual the
importance of being initiated and then
you know then it's about more what are
we what do you know what are our
teachers here and now what what is what
is around us what is near is what is
calling to us yes it's interesting um
you know to thinking and again going
back to you know what it was if it was
anything the same yeah and uh of an
excuse I've done a lot of research on on
channeling if you will and so putting
your your consciousness outside of
yourself or using you know the persona
to the channel information or or to take
the the blame off of you or whatever and
people use a lot of drugs to do that I
think religion does that as well kind of
looked into that I'm gonna there's a
couple questions here and the chat kind
of opened up the chat for some questions
and let's see here
Padawan wants to know do you know
anything about holy basil
yeah again I don't have a lot of
experience with it it is a plant that
was used around well where it grows in
India and stuff and has ancient
descriptions about it and again it's the
molecules I think there is I have to
admit I'm a little rusty on the
background they think they've now
started identifying what the active
principle is but that's one thing that's
interesting is that it's not one of the
usual suspects in terms of which
molecules there is and again I think
that we've also seen people misusing it
or sort of stumbling into it without the
proper initiation and I have to admit I
don't know if there's any living
tradition with it still but it's again a
reminder that being initiated is really
important I think it's very powerful
some people have incredible experiences
with it I've tried it a few times and I
felt just a little bit and I was
probably I think you know since I wasn't
properly initiated into it it didn't
reveal its full magic to me but I've
certainly read about people who then
have these crazy experiences so I think
it's it's again how do you relate to a
sacred power plant and it's it's what's
you know there's so many different plant
species you know holy basil is in the
mint family lamiaceae family you know
you eat almost each of the major
families of plants past psychedelic
molecules in it even mean of course
mushrooms on plants like and have you
know they just found this like and that
has like five myth oxy DMT and
psilocybin in it and you know do you
think about what this is like and do you
know he's like and a hundreds of years
old and then there's the whole thing
about even animals that have psychedelic
molecules in it you know near us here we
have the Sonoran Desert toad which
produces five months out see DMT and its
venom glands and that being this toad
lives underground hibernating for nine
ten months of the year I mean it you
know
it's like what does it maybe it's
dreaming us and again you know even the
human pineal gland we make DMT in our
own brain
so to me that that's you know the
connection that's that's the interface
between molecule and spirit and we're
all tuned into that wavelengths and
again specifically holy basil I don't
have much experience I've certainly
heard of people having challenges with
it what's the the one that's supposed to
be like a really scary psychedelic some
kind of devil's horn or something like
that
what is huh it's a flower
oh well there are you know there are
natural psychedelics that have a lot of
physical side effects so the first thing
I thought of was the Torah jimsonweed or
Prague Mangia species which are very
rich since its Coppola meaning
scopolamine it can has a lot of
physiological side effects and others
the old poem matters a hat or blind as a
bat because it constricts your pupil red
as a beet because you flush part of the
hair because it raises your body
temperature and it can cause really
rapid heartbeat and again insufficient
dose it it's fatal so there's a lot of
these molecules you have to learn how to
use them right again being initiated and
a lot of plants that as a kid growing up
not a cell that's poisonous don't touch
that fire garrick poisonous you'll kill
you
belladonna it'll kill you henbane or
what's the other one on the other pain
oh it's poisonous and then you realize
no they're not mean they're poisonous
and that's what they tell the
uninitiated so you don't mess with it
there is teaching and wisdom to be
initiated and then of course there's you
know I mean what's the scariest molecule
you could say frozen I mean you know the
synthetic molecules and what they do to
our brain every molecule to me has a
spirit you know we have a spirit but
dopamine has a spirit serotonin has a
spirit so these synthetic molecules in a
way what's their spirit they're like
these Frankenstein Ian spirits almost
and what you know like let's take
ketamine synthetic molecule an amazing
teacher
but even John Lilly who was the real
pioneer I mean it almost killed him so
that's I think that's one of
the most dangerous molecules are the
molecules that separate you I mean them
and I said projects the most dangerous
molecule in a way that's not a joke
because when did my need when you get
taught of these symptoms you're having
we need to cover them up that to me is
the worst outcome and I remember years
ago of being a resident walking down a
hallway running into a patient of mine
who was waiting for to see someone else
I'm like how's it going and he's like
you know sitting there drooling I myself
barely awake guys like you know almost
really close he's like oh terrible I'm
still feeling something and I realized
you know life isn't about being so
medicated that you don't feel anything
anymore it's about feeling and feeling
it all and you know when we talked about
the initiatory experience earlier you
know no one gets out of this game alive
we have to live life knowing we're gonna
die that's that's really the greatest
spiritual wisdom and so when we live in
this dissociate you know the
dissociation can happen to us because of
trauma that's something we haven't
talked about you know it's a survival
mechanism and evil animals dissociate
you know when the lion catches the zebra
zebra goes limp or the possum playing
that that's associations it's an ancient
mechanism and then of course some people
seek mind-altering substance is usually
not psychedelics because they teach you
too much but alcohol opiates they're
sort of the numbing molecules so that it
chemically dissociate and now we don't
even need to do that because we've got
cell phones and everybody's staring at
them and they're being disassociated
years ago I went is that there's a
Museum in LA called the psychiatry and
Industry of deaths it's museum by a
Scientology or the citizens Commission
Human Rights in an anti psychiatry
Museum and in one room there's all these
mind-control projects and we know about
MKULTRA and you know Sidney Gottlieb and
the CIA trying to use LSD for
mind-control and realizing that's not
going to work and then this many years
ago and there was just this little sign
on the wall saying oh yeah there's a
mind-control project called Tower and
the medium of mind-control is the cell
phone well it's working I mean that's
like the ultimate mind control is cell
phones everybody's in the matrix
yeah it's stronger it's stronger than we
even think but you can do all the
studying you want and have your mind
blown about the Illuminati and the Cabal
and the elite in how they got us and
it's deeper than that it's deeper than
your worst
that's why this conversation is so
important and it could be stay stay
say it again you broke up right there
sorry it's like you know the way these
devices find their way into our brain is
through convenience so to me convenient
and since the AIDS deadly sin because oh
it's so convenient to have my cell phone
and it's a convenient to have Facebook
on my cell phone and then you're in the
matrix you know and you're actually
paying for it you know it's it's like
you you know you're enjoying it not
realizing what a deep level were being
manipulated yeah that that's again when
we connect with nature's through the
psychedelic molecules that's what I want
to be a part of not not the modern slave
Atrix you know I talked about this with
your wife a little bit too and I know
there's so much more we can go into this
but with with the whole transhumanism is
like they're like replicating spiritual
technology like stuff that exists right
with the global brain we are all
connected we're empathic so they'll take
the fact that we are connected and
that's okay you're connected through
Facebook you're connected if you see my
status you know if you like it you agree
with and you know it's so there's so
many of these different spiritual
technologies that seems like they're
just mimicking through technology I just
want to reiterate to the question I had
a while ago it was let me see the
devil's trumpet and I think is the what
I was thinking guys trumpet is a name
for the treat at or the botanical name
is Brook Mangia species which again are
full of scopolamine so again in South
America it's in some versions of Oscar
they include it I forget some of the
traditional names now again with
teaching I think it can teach us
something but I know a lot of people
again you can die from it and even I've
heard of a number of people even if they
don't die from it they can really get
possessed by it like permanent psychosis
and and really having so you know some
of our teachers are more benevolent and
some of our teachers we need to approach
with the greatest respect
so I think what's really important again
is having proper initiation especially
with plants were you can die from I
guess one of the last question here we
can end this on flying penguins Martin
wants to know what plant do you find the
most influential or beneficial like what
is your main go-to plan I know you have
so many but if there was one that you
would like to communicate for yourself
or for people to check out wow that's a
really tough one that's like you know
going to the ice-cream store and saying
oh yeah you know you get to pick one
flavor and I want to taste all of them
favorite favorite album I mean this may
be an odd one but I think if you're
really ready to get to know yourself I
think a high quality labdanum I
mentioned latinum earlier it's the resin
of the sisters plant the black name is
sisters LaDonna fair we have we have one
on our essential oil website it will
reveal stuff from the shadow and I
usually say oh this you know you
shouldn't use it without being initiated
into it but again times are urgent and
when we're really ready to face our
shadow that's the most important
spiritual journey in a way that's the
gift years ago decades ago when I worked
with clients for the Dix already you
know when they realize hey there's a
force inside of me that's making me
engage in this addictive behavior that's
the beginning if you survive your
addiction that's the beginning of wisdom
that you have a shadow that can make you
do these things that will destroy you
and so then if you want to delve deeper
the labdanum really you just smell it
and meditate with it and it will it will
reveal things that may be really hard
for you to accept but I think that's
what's really important now I think the
other molecules they all have a place
they're all amazing teachers but if I
had to pick one right now today it may
sound strange but I would go with
labdanum
and you know just smell it and it'll
it'll show you things you might not be
ready to see but that you need to see
I'm gonna check that out and you can get
that off y'all's website you guys have a
lot of stuff on the website is really
cool the stuff that you guys offer
everybody definitely needs to go check
it out if you want
if you want to go ahead and plug the
website now you could do that yes
essential oil is on a website called
Cathy's Attar's so that's Kathy is c88
YN san doctor is ATT ARS Kathy's arse
comm we have the lab venom there that's
from India really top quality and many
other power teachers the arrows in soil
which we get from France that's one of
my big allies that we talked about at
the beginning and the other website
where we have a lot of our classes and
it's also the portal what we offer
consultations and we do consultations
online like we're doing now I mean this
is a conversation but we do consult deep
consultations online and the website for
that is aroma gnosis comso aroma a ro ma
gnosis is G and o s is aroma gnosis comm
ya guys make sure y'all go check it out
I'll put all that English in the show
links as well show notes
I guess one more question this is for
Christy again she wants to know have you
had any encounters with angels or I'm
assuming that you know my mind angels
are the the entities behind the plants
as well kind of similar maybe there are
other ones on etheric levels of higher
density and things like that but how
would you respond to that any encounters
with otherworldly beings such as angels
and those type of things
oh absolutely I mean I think you know
that we can talk about disembodied
beings in general and then you know
there are entities and beings that exist
on the disembodied realms and that they
absolutely exist certainly there's
angelic beings that I've had the
privilege to encounter through one of
the first people I invited to give a
class ten years ago in New Mexico is a
lady from upstate New York Margaret
donor and she's an angel channel or and
it was a real epiphany for me but again
through aromas and psychedelic molecules
you meet the spirit behind the molecule
and you know then it gets into mo what
do we call them you know the Greeks call
them the nature spirits to live in trees
the dyads and then the I ads and the
rivers so I don't mean to split hairs
but these disembodied bee
everywhere you know and and and the some
of them are benevolent some of them want
us want to reconnect us and some of them
have their own agenda you know and a can
possess us whatever you want I've
certainly there are cases I've seen in
my career as a psychiatrist for you know
not be Catholic anything but demonic
possession is certainly a possibility at
that
it's uncanny like when you menu open to
those realms you have to also learn how
to protect yourself again that's where
the arrow is really good because it's a
real boundary maker and protects us from
and again what what what sort of again
we're gonna use a word whose in biggest
but what sort of demons are coming in to
you through your self song you know oh
yeah for sure and I think to this even
the work that I'm trying to push out
there just this this notion of what is
an angel as well we know with the with
the Hebrew word for angel means it means
messenger and so these plants are
messengers they have a message for you
if you'll listen
and there's many thing I think even the
demons have messages for us so once
they're there they're angels too because
they they are carrying a message it may
be a harsh message it made me hate get
get your life in order turn from your
sin deal with it or if you don't deal
with it it's gonna deal with you that's
a hell of a message and you need
somebody to tell you that and there are
beings or entities on waves of density
that will deliver that message to you in
one shape or form you through addiction
through many different ways and so I see
the beauty and it all of how it all
works together and they're all
messengers so I think it's really
interesting to look at it that way um I
you know and I think that so it's just
one last thing as I said you know that's
in a way what our core teaching is
everything can be a messenger you know
how do we turn the obstacles in life the
challenges in life the negative patterns
into stepping stones for growth and the
other thing I just want to briefly
mention because he keeps coming up is
but again sugar is a profound mind
control mechanism mind control drug and
if you look at all the foods that
contain massive amounts of sugar now
when people talk about being in the
matrix I think we're in the matrix
through the sugar the sugar is mind
controlling the vast majority of the
population right now and maybe that's a
conversation for another time what about
natural sugar where does that fit in
I mean like I said I'm a backyard
beekeeper and I would even I mean tell a
diabetic to eat honey because honey is
you know they they found honey in
Egyptian Chairman's that was still good
to eat so honey is like sacred food for
sure had refined sugars you know the the
semi synthetic sugars I think is mind
control because you can give people
narcan you know the anti opiate
medication and if they're addicted to
sugar and if they go into opiate
withdrawal so sugar in many ways numbs
you the way opiates do and and it
teaches you this dependence on you know
all these outside sources it's sugar
refined sugar like that does not exist
in nature you're right of course were
wired for it and people are companies
powers that we have you figured out how
to use sugar as a mind control it's so
weird cuz even though you go to the
grocery store and try to buy stuff and
it says like sugar free or healthy and
you look at how much sugar is actually
in it like even in water it's like how
you putting sugar in the water man yes
you know it's crazy let me ask you this
- people want to know how do you spell
the lab dimin labdanum el a b c d e a
and um and again there's a lot of Latin
and out there that's dead you know very
poorly distilled mass-produced so not to
be too egocentric but if you want high
quality laughing and go to our website
Kathy's Akhtar's com we searched the
world far and wide for the best aromas
and you really need a living eleven amel
Abda and um labdanum awesome well I'll
link all that in the show notes as well
Florian thank you so much for coming on
I really enjoyed this interview man
hanging out with you I'd love to do it
again just let me know when you want to
come on and out there's so much more
that we can get into thanks so much and
I'm many blessings to you my friend
thank you blessings to you truth seeker
alright later brother
florian florian Burke Meyer that's Kathy
skipper's husband and business partner
because they are in business together
which that was a really good interview
if you have not heard the interview that
I did with his wife it's only just a
couple weeks ago make sure you go check
that out because that one was really
good too very similar but we got into a
lot
of other aromas and what the aromas do
and different things that we can take as
well you know I did talk about what is
the the t's the different teas that we
can make and I talked about what was it
we talked about
salvia a little bit about the salvia
plant not the extract we talked about
tobacco being used as something sacred
and divine in healing and cleansing as
well using these things for the right
reasons
another thing we talked about we talked
about so much but make sure you go
listen to that episode it was good man
just talking about the different plants
and our connection to it doesn't it make
you want to get outside the something to
make you want to communicate and it's so
interesting man and so he's a
neuroscientist right and he studies the
stuff in our connection to to it and to
the brain and how it makes you feel and
chamomile that's what it was the
chamomile tea when you're wanting to
relax and again instead of cracking open
a beer or six beers whatever you're
doing brew up some chamomile relax
chamomile you know some mix of mushrooms
with it just enough to kind of get into
it and feel good so really interesting
that was cool there was a lot of stuff
that he brought to the table as well
they're dealing with the the CBD they've
been arguing with me talking about you
don't need no TA see you could get the
one without TA see that's the same thing
uh-huh I don't think it does you know
you can try to make you feel better I'll
tell you what's a what something is the
placebo it works because I believe it
works it works because some some a
trusted person the the placebo studies
are interesting how much you believe
something again if this I need this to
complete me I need this to to help me
and if I take it or to help me it's big
it can be used in your favor I don't
think it's a bad thing right no matter
what we're doing or taking or taking
salt pills or whatever but we're really
or sugar pills
and the placebo lets us know that it
works for us and so it does so much to
say about that I want to tell some of
you guys are definitely from last week
in the school of the Mystics we talked
about we just mentioned the name and we
mentioned Teresa Janeiro's and I
actually reached out to her see she had
to change the part Chris Garner told me
about that I checked out her videos and
see what she is now and I spoke with her
yesterday over the telephone and I think
we're gonna do some stuff together so
Teresa and Janeiro's are supposed to be
coming on the podcast and it's gonna be
interesting
it seems like she's really denounced a
lot of things that she was promoting and
she got to see the dark side of all of
this celebrity and Hollywood and it
freaked her out and she's seen the
darkness behind it so I'm looking
forward to that interview we're gonna
get that lined up soon talking about
that you guys know she was close with
David Wilcock and Corey Goode and those
guys and and now they she essentially
become their enemy or whatever they kind
of denounced her and tried to make her
look like a crazy person and stuff but
once you see you know the spirit behind
that stuff it freaked you out man so
really looking at looking forward to
working with her having her on the
podcast and maybe doing some stuff in
the future as well so shout-out to Chris
Connor for let me know that she had a
change of heart as well and definitely
need to catch those people before they
go too far over kind of like what's his
name Steven bang cars you know somebody
like that who is just like against
anything spiritual he's so Christian
he's so earthly minded he's no spiritual
good at all right so some people like
that and people send me his work all the
time because he's like saying Yoga is
demonic meditations demonic he just
anything spiritual is demonic and that's
just silly and I'll show you the
connection where all of this
spirituality comes from in the Bible
crystals incense meditation trances
astral projection all of this stuff is
in your Bible I hope that would ignite a
light within you to want to start
reading this stuff within there and
shout out to Richie what's up brother
Richie's hanging out Richie says great
show here thank you
but yeah make sure you guys join us
tonight 7:00 p.m. central for the School
of the Mystics if you're a patron you
get access to that for any level of
giving even a dollar get you access to
that it's all hangout it's our just
community aspect to what we're building
we do a lot of different things change
this up from week to week some good
conscience conversation so if you're
wanting to get into that make sure you
check it out it's in the link there you
get you'll get an email with the link to
join man I did my I know I talked about
it on the last pot podcast but I did the
my first flight got over that and was
awesome amazing for those of you who
didn't hear and I overcame my fear of
flying did a long ride up and pretty
much vocalize everything that I wrote up
about it dealing with the fear of flying
so man just encourage everybody 2020 is
here man it's time for you stepping to
your calling the things that you've been
dreaming about the things that you've
been wanting to accomplish man pull the
trigger step out make it happen you want
to start a podcast do it you want to
find healing do it you want to go and
have your ceremony do it you know we're
hosting our own ceremonies right now I
got one next week we're gonna be doing a
ceremony going out into nature with with
some brothers in the community so it's
going to be good then I got another one
coming up in April we're gonna do it
again a bunch of stuff that we got
planned I'm working on some courses I
have like two different courses that I'm
working on one of them is a like a
metaphysical spiritual practice that you
can do to to tap into the spirit to
Innis it's a it's based off of the
scriptures and a few different
scriptures that it brings out I don't
know if it's going to be a course or
maybe like a 21-day book or whatever to
kind of do these practices but very
excited about working on that and just
as kind of the downloads come to me I
try to get them out of me and put them
on paper and so I'm working on that
we're also working on some courses
trying to help people manifest their
destiny kind of move some of those
blockages out the way I am available for
private sessions people who want to go
on on one-on-ones with me whatever it is
that you need help with if you are
dealing with trauma if you're dealing
with blockages financial any of those
kind of things that you need help kind
of
getting over getting to the next level
starting that business starting that
podcast building a website whatever it
is you guys know what I do and it's on
many different levels some people come
to me because they want to know how to
you know step out in business on the
internet how to put themselves out there
and start booking clients they want to
become a spiritual coach those type of
things they're doing Reiki but they
don't know where to start to start
getting clients and so people book me
and I help them and I build websites and
logos and I do all the branding and all
that kind of stuff on the back end so if
you need help with any of those things
you can book me on my website true
seeker calm all the info is there we'd
do a free 15 minute consultation for
those of you who are interested and
maybe purchasing a session from me and I
scheduling one so man a lot going on in
20 20 messing with some new music
meeting a lot of new people I feel like
I'm passing the torch to a lot of people
when it comes to the hip hop like I'm
still doing some music but there's a lot
of other things that I'm doing first but
there's a lot of young people who have
influenced over the years who are now
kind of stepping out themselves to do
spiritual hip-hop in there you know I'm
kind of coaching them and giving them
some pointers and and stuff like that
and a lot of them look up to me so
really passing the torch to a lot of
young people coming out now and it feels
really cool to know that I've influenced
them I can hear it in their music it's
really cool so I used to get upset about
that you know what I'm saying but it's
cool to be in a place where like you
know that you have an impact and it's
lasting right and it's in so it's like a
ripple effect we talk about that you
know the ripple effect from the whatever
you're doing ripples out to other people
and I think you benefit from that you
benefit from the healing you beneficiary
you you know benefit from the bag not
benefit but you experience the bad karma
too people are left in the wake of your
mistake so that's why we need to do good
deeds we need to help people we need to
build people up because we you know
people are hurting man and at all all
fingers point back to you so it's a
blessing just to be there and and and
know being conscious about the work that
we're doing that's Scott weight going on
man you just check it out yeah I was
trying to connect to a different
I'm supposed to be on am I supposed to
be at one right here uh uh no so sorry
about that
oh no problem I'm in the middle of a
middle of a podcast just say hello sorry
Oh Scott yeah we just did a UH an
interview as well that was good it'll be
coming out soon so let's see so he's
connected to the same one that's awesome
look see that's the thing about uh
giving out the same link to uh to do
these podcasts it's like people to click
it and come in I remember one time it
was a couple times but just one time I I
was supposed to meet with the person and
so I gave him the link and somebody else
had the link to I think it's cuz it's
the same one I think it's the same one
that we used for the school atomistic so
I had my guest it was me and the guests
and it was before we went live and I
went to go get some coffee and I came
back and there was a third person here
and so there was just this woman just
staring at the camera and she's like
sitting on the edge of her bed and and
I'm like ok so we got uh is this your
was like is your partner we're gonna do
so it's two of y'all because I've done
those interviews to where they kind of
come on with their friend or their
spouse he's like no I don't know who
that is
I was like oh okay um let's go to a
different room and I had to create
another room cuz random people just kind
of popped in on the interview so I don't
want to give you I know ideas it's just
jump off when you feel like saying hello
in the middle of a podcast but yeah it
happens what was the UH I mean see here
cuz I know uh you see the name of the
interview because I know we just did it
and it was actually really good oh yeah
yeah so we just did it in good faith so
me and Scott just did this other
interview what was that this last this
week actually it was a in good faith
yeah make sure you check that one out
too because it was good it'll be on the
podcasting app soon so I'll probably put
that out tomorrow also it's my birthday
tomorrow
think we're going to karaoke at the
Mexican restaurant it's kind of what I
do I sing I rap let's do all that kind
of stuff so wish me a happy birthday
guys with that I'm gonna say peace and
Shalom and really enjoyed this episode
hope you did too it's good stuff peace
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