truth-seeker and/or its affiliates are not responsible for any strange phenomena that may occur during or after listening to this podcast which may include the following heightened senses of awareness psychic abilities UFO sightings alien contact time loss out-of-body experiences bringing in the year CSP lucid dreaming increasing chronicity astral projection telepathy stronger intuition levitation miraculous healings and on remote viewing please be advised to listen for indecision [Music] what you [Music] [Music] these faintest and when I don’t be [Music] [Music] [Music] and all things spiritual yeah what’s up ladies and gentlemen this is the true seeker podcast I’m your host true seeker back with another today we’re doing two episodes today back-to-back and I excited and delighted to be with you guys so got some good conversation got a great guest planned up for you guys today so I can’t go any further without saying thank you again who are the beautiful patreon supporters everybody who enables me to do what I’m doing and bring this work to the table my music the podcasts the art everything that we’re doing with the videos and all that cool stuff thank you again from the bottom of my heart I want to welcome some of the new members that we’ve had within the last week or so supposed to shout out to Alba Rodriguez Alex Sampson Korean Mitchell and Horn wigs Sebastian let me know what country you’re you’re tuning in from brother thank you guys for the support it means the world if you would like to get access to the material that we’re putting out some of the exclusive stuff my entire discography of music which is music that I’m creating head on over to patreon comm backslash true seeker there you get access to all that beautiful stuff as well as our Thursday night sessions that we do which is the school of the Mystics that’s the community aspect to what we’re building here the hands-on aspect so that’s the fun stuff so head on over there check that stuff out huge thank you to Noah Adam brink and Vinnie ween and family for supporting at the diamond body level thank you guys and everybody else for supporting much love thank you without further ado we’re gonna go ahead and jump into today’s discussion I’ve got a awesome guest lined up for me today Lee makovski Lee welcome to the podcast brother how are you very good thank you good to be with you good to have you on man I was introduced to your work through our mutual friend Laurel and Laurel Erica which she’s a wordsmith in herself and beautiful woman and so she had a bunch of friends she was introducing me to and you was one of them and she spoke highly of you checked out your work and I was like man I’ve never I’ve never seen anything on you but then as I’m starting to do the research you’re kind of everywhere man so I’m excited to have you on today yeah well you’re kind of sitting in somewhat of a shrine for people who are you know watching on YouTube for those of you who aren’t there’s a bunch of picture frames and pictures and shelving and desk and tables everything’s painted with looks like some type of psychedelic or a little bit of maybe some geometry maybe a little bit of everything some space some planets a little bit of everything but it’s really beautiful art that’s and that’s actually he’s using for his backdrop so I guess that’s a great place to start man we can start with you with your background and what you bring to the table but uh what’s up with the art man because you’re you’re pretty much your home is turned into a temple or shrine of our right yeah turn the computer around and show you some of the the rest of the studio because I really love talking with people like yourself creative people musicians artists because we really have to you know so many people think it’s about critique and I say artists do that for themselves we have to inspire each other’s my home and why the artists here is 37 years ago when I was working as an actor in Hollywood I was going to show off Dallas and I realized at that point that although that gave me certain things creatively it wasn’t fulfilling I still had to have the conversations like you’re having with your show where you’re you’re having ideas you’re being stimulated by what’s where your resources what’s gonna stimulate your creativity so my home I’ve always dedicated to discussion groups 37 years ago I started having Tuesday night discussion groups out of theosophy discussion group twenty-five years of each is good night and the balance that I have a Western in the tradition looking at everything from young and alchemy to a lot of Joseph Campbell and mythology so my home has always been a place where my motto is at least here let these things matter let’s not worry about convincing the neighbor but let’s look at each other and say if this matters to you and matters to me that’s the beginning that’s relationship and then I taking musicians and actors meaning when we get together we want to create a space of mutual trust so we can enjoy that place where we discover what neither one of us would do along and this amplifies us and this is really the nature of the discussion groups here over the years and why the art is to a great degree the outcome of all of the questions I couldn’t ask in the world but I certainly was not going to not ask when I was home and I found over the years a lot of people were interested like I was making the resource very similar story man and I’ve kind of used my home in the internet you know for that because I come out of evangelical Christianity but I was always into some of the deeper stuff even within the Bible but I couldn’t ask those questions you know those deeper questions out there or aliens or life or psychedelics or anything like that but I went to the internet and I started a podcast and got scrutinized and it was silly we’re down here in the Bible Belt and then eventually it kind of it kind of you know I’m saying because I was consistent it caught on and those people who were into that stuff are all around supporting supporting it so it’s awesome when you have your own safe space like that to kind of explore those ideas without scrutiny right well think about all these things to change things but it’s story that changes our human condition that’s what we think we’re capable of and we look at really the world is sort of an autoimmune reaction through the creative mind it says if we begin to give a place where these things matter then if the music’s good like with you it’ll start attracting people because you’ve given them a place that they know they can go to because a lot of people are alone but they don’t know that you can actually talk about these things and that’s another point of why this is my home is I’m a very big exponent of you must find places where you feel safe to talk about sir things otherwise you’re defending them and they can never innocence become part of your real creative resource because you’re defending them against people that are against it but really the people against it it usually just afraid and would rather not talk about these things and so I think we’re being more wise now just saying well let’s talk amongst ourselves yeah you can create a story that isn’t threatening but really inclusive then we’ve done the job of the storyteller in the musician the actor which is not to judge the audience but to say you know watch it more interesting yeah that’s good hey Lee if you don’t mind can you get a little bit closer to the audio they’re saying the audios a little bit low a little bit too closer to computers yeah perfect um I mean that I think that whole that whole idea is is awesome because it changed for me obviously we’re coming from two different aspects but I see myself in that and it’s kind of like something Universal that’s working because it I went from trying to prove what I believed and trying to debate people out of their belief system to believe what I believed and it only to try to solidify my beliefs because you believe in it as well so it has to be right or has to be true but there was a piece and it was an awesome place that I found myself in once I quote unquote gave up my right to be right to win the conversation to win the argument now truth is truth whether you’ve encountered it experienced it created it or not and so just to be in that aspect of belief is beautiful and I don’t have to defend it and it the truth doesn’t even have to you know it doesn’t need God doesn’t need me to defend him or it whatever it is right mountains don’t need there to be defended by us and that’s that’s really a very good point you know that’s that’s an excellent point about this sense of we go from debate to conversation that’s why I’m house I’ve always had a round table it’s very our theory in the sense of I want the excellence of my fellow lights I want to the story that like any play any musical piece and he danced we are as good as what we put into it and if we impose ourselves on to another character I want it to change we must understand the nature of the play which is and I do feel this very strongly because my studio as a library as well that it’s the nature of the library the desire to step back from fighting over the books and realized that the library itself expresses that we are part of an enormous conversation that if we’re not against we start to be able to put together and like you you start to end like myself we’re starting to create community around a sense of place and not a sense of conflict but a sense of gathering that’s why I call out I say I want you to think more like gardeners you know let’s plan to see let’s let’s attend the soil and that’s be the ones that say I’m not expecting things to have to I’m creating the circumstances where they can grow those this there’s other people who are doing stuff like that it’s very similar I look at Alex gray and Kazem and in saying what he’s bringing to the table and people who are essentially using art to bring people together and creating a safe space for people to come together and have these discussions what are some of the things that you guys do is it just kind of hanging out having a couple drinks talking about ideas do you put on events music and think DJs and things like that as well you know actually that we put on my wife and I for the last 10 years have had gatherings that really came off of my 37 years of these discussion groups not had discussion groups at my home from 8 to 10 for the last 37 years every Tuesday night and for about 20 of those years as well on Thursday night and that was just really dedicated to exploring and creating a place of let’s gather and read these books together so I always use a book like right now on a Tuesday night we’re using Henry Miller’s wisdom of the heart we read younglings the red book together in group so we always use a book as a centralizing characters so because a lot of times if you have a salon and you just talk as you know the artists talk and they express themselves and I wouldn’t has there it’s very good but it doesn’t have legs because it in a way isn’t working with resource outside of the artists themselves so I like to put a book and off that says let’s look at these ideas because we all have like you like with creative people we all have ideas you know so we need this other character there saying all right well let’s let’s bring these ideas together around this this focus and so that’s really been a great tool on theosophy we rested in 9 years reading the secret doctrine which is I think their ages but it was great because every Tuesday night we would read a few pages discuss it go into it and then go back so there was this real sense of developing a discipline about about really approaching these things and taking it seriously with a sense of humor yeah that’s awesome you say that man I’m just seeing all the similarities here that’s that the thing is like even what we’re doing on our Thursday night is that there’s like a lot of us who just want to come together and just share and build and talk and there’s there’s room for that to kind of after but I was like you I want to go through a book together of course a discussion to kind of give a framework versus just they were hanging out sharing ideas but have this book where are we getting somebody else’s ideas and almost imparting something to the people a little bit more than that then I hang out so that’s really cool you say that if you always had a book that was the framework for that event and we’re gonna study this together and kind of break it down it’s awesome really works because in a way it frees everyone to be on the same page literally but I really do think that this is its key because we do have to create tools that help us honor the conversation not just as in the sense chewing the fat which is fine but really that by creating a place where we talk about these things I think on a much deeper level inversely work were allowing these things to have a place do you know in other words like like something will not grow just because it does it grows because we’re finding our way through this like about books suggestions for one another and this is what I always say to creative people listen we’re dealing with primary technology we’re dealing with the imagination and subdora this is something all the ancestors understand they understand that you know the winters are cold we lose our children too to death and animals and we don’t know what to do but we can’t tell the story about our misery we have to tell a story that creates a sense of possibility for family and I seen this the most primal need in our humanity that’s why I think the similarity between us is it’s getting to a point of realizing it’s not the innocence the individual psychology of that person but how each of us carry a different psychology that says at least amongst ourselves we have to make this allow this to matter you know and and and my motto is we have to learn to say yes rather than yikes you know do them yeah I’ve kind of adopted this saying just essentially what works for you like what are you doing with your practice with your psychology with your religion whatever it is that you’re bringing to the table how was it working for you and just to explore that in everyone in in everything versus what’s not working like we all week we kind of know what’s not working you just turn on the television we can see what’s not working but what are you doing to get through day to day so that’s something awesome to find common ground with people on let me ask you this while we’re just talking about your library a little bit too and books what’s what’s what’s the oldest book that you have there and what’s the oldest Manley P Hall book you have well I have the the actually Tetris bonuses the great the new pearl of great price from 1546 Wildey so I I was very fortunate to be able to collect some real jewels but I also realized this this book karma that that you become very much a custodian you realize some of these beings have lived 400 years so a lot of different people’s lives and so I would get an ancient text and if it was in bad shape I would restore it have it restored because I do feel this sense a curatorial responsibility which is why I think I have the library I do is because I’ve never felt that the entitlement but really this this gathering of let’s put together a story that really reflects that yeah humanity is almost ace was great difficulty but in spite it look awesome was I know if I if I get that feeling by holding some of the original levansky books which I have one from like 1890 something I think it is I’m not really sure but um it’s pretty it’s pretty old but if you if you got some from the fifteen hundred’s I know you just feel like you’re in the presence of a holy relic almost right we are you have this feeling of you’re not dealing with information we have because of computers and just the facts ma’am we think that information that’s out now it’s the same thing is out but part of the hidden secret of these traditions is the element of beauty it’s the element because it’s living that the components are not adding up to adopt the scientific equation a plus B equals a B it’s actually putting into the equation we will put into that mix that allows this to grow into what it wants to become and that’s really even going like the library idea you start to see that this is an ongoing question asked across the ages and I’m thinking maybe I should do what should I walk with this would that work but yeah you can for people who are watching on video and then we’ll trying to explain and or I guess you can explain it a little bit as well for people who are listening but the room so I’m just trying to show us but the whole thing is essentially a library or this is just that room yeah this this this room is a you can start to see it start to see Eve on that it on the pillar will also start to see that I don’t know if you can see the floor no yet beautiful now what are some of the techniques to kind of tap in to that state I mean I know a lot of the art would be called psychedelic art just because the you know I’m saying the typography of it are you I mean have you guys practice the use of some of the plant medicines and things like that you know actually I’m one of those beings that that didn’t need to get further out I didn’t need to find in a sense these doorways they were to present in me I needed to find a way to to really see that the find a way to express this story of of really our human eye that I’m summer like trended faint with this here we go see these are the old books you’ll start to see how the library is painted did you do the majority of it I’ve been working on this every day since 9/11 2001 when the towers came down Wow and you’ll start to see that it’s actually written in a language that was revealed on 9/11 called The Watcher language and this you can see is this is mothership revelations in pink she’s actually going to tell us this story that leads us into the story of the hieroglyph of the human soul and so enough of that I will bring us back here I’ll show you this is the me you can see the Tarot wheeled up here right this is my drawings glued down to the back is he wound down in in a wheel but that also helps us understand the nature of the structure of the wheel why spokes of the wheel why does this story here in my home become relevant in a place where where there’s all of this work being done by people gathering in discussion I was able to work on the Tarot on the archetypes in an environment where I wasn’t having to defend the work because in the world I found working on these traditions you would find people rolling their eyes that say why or that’s awful or that’s wicked and I thought as an actor that’s misunderstanding the play altogether I played a lot of villains and villains aren’t really the bad guy that the catalysts they’re the ones that forced sort of the heroic out of the individual to take action and that’s why my work on the Tarot I liken to having built a piano having understood the nature of the psyche as a cast of characters so like the piano we’re not fighting over the keys we’re understanding the structure of how we’re composed so that finally on 9/11 my upstairs studio becomes this story that we’re going to move into the imagination of the human story but no one will use it as a means to escape our responsibility but will use it with the desire to return from inspired States to share it with those we love you see that’s that’s so that’s sort of the journey of the entire really at last 37 years where does the inspiration come from where do you think it comes from like as far as like in the ethers on the other side and in like always are we being inspired by a higher intelligence or is it the higher intelligences all you know in our in our brain and our in our pineal gland almost I like to think of consciousness and states of compression meaning that that within all states of compression like within every age ourselves one two three there’s there’s a unique wholeness of completeness and that that we are within in a sense of protected field because the the loving element behind all of this is it doesn’t it doesn’t want to sweep away or actually create madness and so for many it stays very latent because of this deep concerned that if your mind opens too quickly to too much you will lose your identity you won’t know who you are and so this is why in mystery tradition in in the the Tarot in esotericism that that the human desire is to run before we can walk and even in my book on the Tarot I quote Goethe who used the latin phrase the torah non facit soldiers nature does not grow in leaps meaning that like wanting to climb a mountain that if you think you can sort of skip over the exercise isn’t necessary to breathe 30,000 feet you’re going to suffocate when you get up there because you’re not putting in the diligence saying that it’s not about me it’s about being worthy of the things I seek to know you see that’s the shift we’re so used to thinking is just information that changes it from a book on the Shelf of information into a quality of consciousness that says listen if you embody me I will transform you from within this is what I learned as an actor is we’re so used to looking at spiritual and religious states from the audience as opposed to from the performers sense that that I learned by embodying the character I think that’s why my Tarot is such rich work as I was never a believer in Tarot I don’t need to and I don’t believe in the characters in the play either I’m interested in play I want to know how in every age these seem same characters keep reoccurring you’d love to say yeah we got rid of the devil this time but he says all this time you would think we learn how to outsmart the devil these archetypes and stuff that you play I just did a little documentary that I put together about the persona and familiar spirits coming from the name and I didn’t even know this but I was studying ventriloquism and the the Greek name for for the familiar spirits was the ventriloquist where we get the guy with the you know the hand puppet now and so they would the cut it comes from the the Oracle of Delphi and how they would you know get high off of the gases that that was coming up from the cave and and tell fortunes and things like that and everything starts running together but to see the the personas and there’s a freedom that kind of comes there when when the scapegoat is available when I could you know the guy who’s who’s the who has the puppet he can be a shy timid guy and he would say things that he would never say to the beautiful voluptuous woman who walks by he would never say it but the puppet gives him the freedom to say it in character then I was like studying that and putting all this stuff together we’re like you know the movie the mask by Jim Carrey and a lot of the quotes that come through there were like when I when I’m wearing this mask I become someone else and I receive power and all of the stuff when it puts the you know the blame is shifted not upon Jim Carrey but the mask or whatever the case is and so we see that with superheroes when they wear the cape and they put their mask on they become you know Clark Kent turns into this you know this hero you know I’m saying who has these magical powers essentially and it’s really interesting when it comes to that notion with art as well you know I can I can say things in art that early on was a lot easier for me to put into a song or a painting a picture that would share that notion and take you on that journey versus you getting with me and there’s different ways to do it but the art in the music and stuff itself helped to take you on that journey as well whatever and I don’t even have to do much of the work it’s it exists I don’t have to recreate it like it’s gonna be there forever essentially right yeah and and i think that that relationship because again we’re so used to illustrating you’re serious to believing things and when you understand that the transmutation of art is is that it resolves it does do away because a lot of art I will save people the guard comes from ideals and it does to a certain degree but it also comes from this trying to do something about despair trying to do something about inner turmoil that doesn’t really make sense doesn’t have a type of logic to it it simply has a type of aggressive energy that needs to be expressed and it I believe often times doesn’t know what it wants to be any more than we know what it wants to be which is why when we think about our approach to these things we begin to honor the fact that if I want to know something it’s not to try and figure out what I believe or don’t believe about it but to enter into it to feel the work transforming from within this is why a lot of our sacred texts the Bhagavad Gita a lot of these different things are written in the first person because when you say I am Krishna where it is Krishna who is I know where am I not who am I not when am I not your your expressing as you said like the puppet be expressing the the true Krishna within you because you created a residence for it in the same way that if you are playing Hamlet you allow that character to live with it you you shape-shift into that character and yet you don’t lose yourself you’re not overwhelmed by that character and this is one of the problems with a lot of magical tradition is because there’s belief involved rather than theatricality involved one becomes entranced or trapped by the energy rather than when you’re acting and you feel these enormous energies flow through you you have created the theatrical permission to not over identify you know which allows you interestingly enough to really identify because you know you’re in charge you are in control of these energies so you can ignore that handle the enormous force but oftentimes without context people put themselves in the way of these enormous energies and they really are swept away by them because they don’t have the innocence the practice that practical stage you don’t like like like having a lot of talent without anything to put it in there they’re removed from in a way they never actually are able to apply their their talent because they’re at the grounding or those people keeping it in a sense work like planting a seed as a matter of fact in my tear role it’s very interesting because I did not I use my my drawings but we can see that I don’t create a magician to begin with it’s a Magus but Magus is a higher effect meaning a teacher the sacred mysteries and notice that this drawing is a see do you see and as we look at the seed we’re not looking at someone who is trying to trick us with smoke and mirrors and create optical illusions but truly the gardener that says these greater qualities of mind do not grow from the outside in they are planted within your psyche and as you nurture them they will then grow but they will grow as you they won’t grow as something outside of you they will be your relationship with these things and another very interesting clue was this drawing of mine for the world architect is dated the falling away of the 20 hours mmm we can see the Twin Towers you see the pillars no you can also see the female figure in the middle which is this story of the falling away of the binary of patriarchy the false erections of money and God which have led us for the last have to get somewhere it’s never about finding home it’s about where do I have to get so this is the story she says are but you see the tree the the mother the feminine the ancestors say you live in all world simultaneously when you know this because this is the world archetype like the world trade centers this is about Saturn and structure not think about always wanting to create music but you spent thousands of years creating a piano and I really think that this was what it’s about that he used to be one note of direct connection and then we bent that light and lost that connection and now it’s become many notes in a recollecting at the end of time so to speak like the library the world says you are the outcome of all of this you’re not one of the books in the library you woven up all the books in the life telling us and proving to us yeah cool so that’s my my two cents on that on the on the on the archetypal of the mystical but what I wanted to show is that what amazes me and delights me is that when we are in sympathy with these energies a bit like being in sympathy with water or swimming with it it allows us to take a journey and not drown in those waters and yet we are the ones that have to create permission give ourselves parameters I say we can go anywhere but we have to create that that this this is the in a way it’s almost like like a play saying this is the permission I get these this is what I create we have to be those that give ourselves permission and I think we have to do it but we’re talking about the beginning not to convince others but to say at least amongst ourselves if these things matter then like the Magus will be planting a seed that will grow on its own because I was still like think about rock and roll right it comes along nobody needs to convince anybody to listen it’s good you start moving and to me that’s a great idea a great idea doesn’t need to be defended doesn’t need to be believed you know just needs to be excel often you say that man because I’ve been kind of relating all this stuff back to the Bible right I come out of evangelical Christianity and so I’m not running from the Bible I’m diving into it even deeper and to see the archetypes that are from Genesis to Revelation and how we we’re not reading a history book but we’re reading about you know us where we’re pretty much beholding into a mirror as we read the allegory of these characters and the golden calves and the you know the other nations and the other armies that came against the children of God and if you look up those names of those other nations and stuff they mean different things that we go through in our life for my anxieties and fears and doubt and worry and how they overcame these are the nations of innis oh it’s so beautiful so a lot of people it scares a lot of evangelicals because it’s you know this isn’t really taught there we’re taught that it’s all literal and it just stuff like um same really happened so it kind of scares them but I told them that you know even if it never existed if it was proven that it was all allegory which they want to hold on to the literal sense and that’s fine but if it was proven that it was all it was it was all allegory and then never happened it wouldn’t change anything the power behind those stories is not it’s not powerful if it if it really happened you know you want to prove that these people literally exist it it’s it’s powerful if you apply the principles of the allegory of them of the myth to your life and you really get the essence about what is being conveyed there it’s powerful and even teach that in Sunday school but for some reason when we get older it becomes about the literal and we’re trying to find Noah’s Ark and trying to find the Ark of the Covenant and all of these type of things when it’s all it all exists it literally exists but within within you and I think that’s why when you look at evangelicals when you look at different ways people in a way are inspired by these ideas and thoughts these these allegories these metaphors these histories for different people I really think that what we have to look at is that that’s a sign of the strength of the Christ ethos meaning that this is what the power of this idea is in each of us whether one believes or doesn’t believe it doesn’t really matter it’s part of the very Joseph Campbell talked about this in the geology world woven of these stories and for me there’s been a great proof of this because in terms of Christ Christ in the hieroglyph of the human soul appears on the floor I was not expecting this because I didn’t have in a sense a religious platform or an agenda so I was very fascinated because Christ also the story of Eve my third book is called Adam and born and he restored a romance in two parts because I started to paint the pillar and you saw it when I walked her out of bed it’s also Deepavali velocity ie painting you’ll see her because she she appears very magically I’m not ill astray ting her and it’s coming from the discovery process of the months of working on her as she’s being drawn forth literally through my hand she’s telling me a story about Adam about Adam and Eve and about Adam becoming lost becoming atomized lost and how Eve becomes really in the story the one who draws out him back into his deeper love because he became lost in history and time violence and death because he had separated his beloved but they come back in is very beautiful and that’s why I was very interested that in the most important part of the floor actually I think this is worth if we can if you can see it because this this surprises me but you’ll start to see have to find out because it the screens are burst it’s a little hard but let me know if you can you see this face yeah you see how there’s an open eye on the right and a blind eye on the left and this really started to show me the story of the father meaning that the blind died the knowledge of the Father the journey of five leads to the mirror of self-reflection but as we come back down to this Christ at the right angle and her story is the knowledge of I love therefore I am and this is the knowledge of the mother and why we begin with the mother and with love and if you think about the Christ as love the good father and a good mother and then the blind eye of the father of the law that tells us that you will take a journey to see into creation and all there’s a blossom unique identity and much of this is using again the environment to express that many of the stories the myths that we live by really are part of each of our psychology and that our hearts oh well we allow them to be manifest because we never insist that we believe in what would generous we think you can say to an evangelical you know what god bless you you don’t have to believe anything not about belief it’s about consideration and I always think if anybody was about consideration it was Christ mm-hmm sinner this you might be worthy of salvation you are uniquely worthy something in you is back to Moses in the parting the Red Sea is leaving each of leaving alignment obelisks and pyramids we’re going to leave we’re going to be lost right because know who’s lost it has to find its way on its own as to create laws for itself now Juana comes the Christ impulse wait a minute it’s not just about the law there’s something beautiful in it something worthy but you have to develop it it’s not just given to it’s a gift of the ages this is why I’ve given talks I’m actually using a lot of Hildegard of Bingen ‘s work Saint Hildegard because she was an artist in the eleven and ten eleven hundred remarkable being but her illuminations show the Christ figure within the rings of a tree as if to say that it’s not in any one time these qualities these qualities are within every ring of the tree and I really believe that this is what our arts bear out because where art is we see beauty and where we see beauty I think we really see the realization of what these deeper teachers were all was trying to reveal to us then won’t you live within you think stop judging each other show up together because at the end of the day if you don’t heal one another who are all sick yeah that’s the beautiful thing about is healing yourself first and then going back to you know be able to heal the others everybody wants to in it I guess that’s kind of like the you know I’m saying the meaning of the parable where they talked about you know Jesus talked about having up you know trying to get the speck out of your brother’s eye when you have a plank in your own or a log yeah absolutely these are these are fundamental etiquette of energy questions I’ve fallen manners it’s like how do you treat others but also how are you treating that quality in yourself you find some part of yourself a thief do you find some part of yourself a beggar you find some part of yourself miserable don’t you know the whole point is that that we must do something but the truth that were one of these human conditions that’s what my work has proven to me deeply is that that we are holographic that and as a matter of fact when I started the the hieroglyph of the human soul it began with as I said the watcher language which is a fractal language meaning it’s the iteration of the same character over and over again and the first being to emerge woven of this weave was the Chinese mother goddess Quan Yin and she started to reveal that she said she said you make the mistake that you believe energy is objective energy is sentient all is consciousness all is whole and holy you are holographic and I started painting my floor which is linoleum and I have to say when nothing says ordinary I’m painting the ordinary and she’s telling me this story that our sacred waters think of art not as my art but on all right its creation it’s flowing to us so creation is saying that our eternal waters are returning home to the domestic space meaning the questions aren’t about how to convince the neighbor now they’re not interested the question now is how do we live at least where I live how do I allow the things that matter to matter here even if they don’t matter there and to me this is the Aconitum mental martial art we start to realize what to pay attention to and what just makes us angry in a sense and I and I feel like that’s what’s upon us a lot of people are understanding the lesson at the mirror I say stand in a mirror with your friend and then things that you’re looking into depth because you see yourself there and think you see somebody behind you you’d think they were in front of you in the mirror and so if you didn’t like the person you saw in the mirror you’d throw something at them but guess what it would hit the mirror it wouldn’t go any it would get and explode back on you you know and and this is one of the great keys to anger is tell somebody I returned your gift to you unopened don’t open the gift bag return it that was one of the teachings of action of Christ there’s something beautiful about you know being able to see yourself in in the eyes of the others and and to know that essentially whatever you’re doing onto someone you’re doing unto yourself that we are all one with when it when it comes to art and it becomes – like I’ve been exploring just the last day or so this really crazy download about pride prejudice you know sickness is when there’s not an adequate flow of that energy when you’re studying all of these things can really be confusing to a lot of people a lot of you know the scripture says that knowledge puffs up with pride and I know something you don’t know like there’s that aspect that a lot of people have to kind of get over I’ve been there I know a lot of people who have but to be open and honest we have to let it flow and I’ve seen just this idea this download man that I got just crazy revelation that as we study as we get these downloads as we get all the information and if it just sits stagnant I feel like it it turns into that pride or it gets it become stagnant within you and it’s supposed to flow that we are to find creative outlets to either write about it in your sense almost going crazy painting getting it out getting all of the stories getting everything out for me putting it down in a song you know in creating this masterpieces this work of art that didn’t exist until I created it and that release that you get as a little Creator man when I talk about that being made in the image and likeness of a creator that feeling that we get whenever we create thing it’s a it’s crazy but I feel like that that we have to be able to get it out and it’s not just about you know the pride thing that comes right I know this so I know that I don’t know that but it’s about helping people and making it practical right like all of this stuff is practical it sounds deep and esoteric and crazy but it’s practical you can essentially apply the principles from all of this stuff to your life and that’s been said if you can’t take your philosophy and in your ideas and your doctrines and break them down to a five-year-old then it’s no good off you can’t help the person struggling with their own addictions and and you know depression and things like that then it’s of no good and there’s a lot of people in those realms who study they have all the crazy information in the occult knowledge but it’s not practical it’s not tangible right it’s about making it practical and sharing it with people and what it helps them in kind of you know I’m saying aids to their life or caters to them versus just being an idea I feel like that’s the creative this is why I often like your talks now I really use the theatrical elements because you can really start to get to understand with actors what I’m working as a director with actors first thing I say is I want you to feel safe if you feel safe we’re gonna watch each other’s back think of musicians right I’m not gonna make fun of each other we’re gonna realize we make mistakes and we’ll lean in them that’s right I love jazz you know it’s like wow that was a great mistake let’s rip on it you know and to me that’s a painter you said you know painting is is making mistakes and if you’re lucky you make enough mistakes to make a painting it’s sort of like life it’s that and I think pride and all these things I think you’re right or when we become stagnant when we become standing at the mirror of self reflection and we need it about ourselves rather than this other way I must express it I I do feel very strongly because my art didn’t come to be a painter my dad was a painter I was an actor I was at Juilliard studying acting and I started using painting as a way to connect emotionally so I started throwing paint at the cat you know think about just using paint as a medium of emotional expression you know hitting punching because I was playing a violent character and I just couldn’t connect with the characters I started trying physicalize it when I started to put together a lot of acting techniques and painting techniques meaning that that it’s not to illustrate something but to allow the emotional of the energetic state to manifest and like seeing clouds than to see what’s in it and to create a dialogue with it and that’s why I think my art is what it is is because it’s never been an illustrator Czar’s I’ve never tried to draw anything it’s always been the same approach as with acting is that I step into the question and the question creates them as you know the necessary impulse yeah well let’s let’s take this boat out of the harbor and see what we’re gonna go together we don’t know either but let’s keep let’s keep diving in I think that you know who we are it’s the keeping diving in and being very vigilant about arrogance because that usually comes out of insecurity yeah you know like like you know like nobody believes anything I do you know and and I often say when people come to us you know when we do our galleries cuz we have a number of gatherings every week now and I was do a little walkabout of the studio a tour and I don’t say that you know the books really reveal that we’re always born into a world where we rush out thinking gosh this is wonderful isn’t it wonderful and everyone says no shut up don’t talk to us about these things so it’s that sense of oh I can’t I guess this doesn’t matter do you know and and so many and even the books in the library said you must understand historically that we were all pushed back all in a sense but the only reason a lot of this work exists is because we we did it in spite of being we did it because we had to do it not because there was some reward at the end the reward was the very need as you said I’ve done I’ve created something with my hands I’ve created a song with my heart I’ve allowed something out of me and we know you know that which if you know if you let that which is without you know within without you will be healed and that’s why art is not the illustration of something it is the creative spirit and I tell people now when they’re standing in my painted studio every brush stroke is a breath this is living breath a painting is a long it wants to breathe with us it wants to say trust your imagination and I will allow you to breathe into a larger sense of wonder and possibility and this isn’t something far-fetched we know this with music we know this with theater we know this when we are transported but not swept to another planet we’re transported and we’re still here so we will have a really wonderful conversation together and be with the people who love and for me that was why so much of this was triggered on 9/11 when I saw people jumping out of buildings all of my love of transcendence of wisdom about the traditions and Ages I realized in a flash man I want to hold the people I love I want to be here I don’t want some erection making me think I’ve got more than you do I’m on my knees you know and I really do think there’s a big thing about this sense we rise out of the linoleum in this story we rise up into domestic space because maybe the last question is intimacy you know we’re so armored we’ve battled our way for ages how do you take the armor off how do you find a place where you do feel safe we don’t feel like you have to defend these things where people aren’t going to think you’re crazy or weird because you know and we’ve all been through that and that’s what I think we’re trying to say stop trying to convince people who aren’t interested those things you make them nervous but if they are interested be a good storyteller offer them something that includes them yes what does right sing-along yeah right yeah find the others man you see you like it as long as you stay faithful and as long as you say consistent and don’t give up don’t grow weary in well-doing you’re gonna find the others and that’s what you were talking about like people feel like they’re alone that they have nobody who feels a certain type of way that they do and you know it could be lonely it’s the kind of a dark night of the soul that I think I’m you know a lot of us have to have to travel but once you don’t die there you make it out of that night you know on the other side there is a light at the end of the tunnel now so you know from you know the the the things and the ideas and our and the concepts that I was demonized and laughed that over now I’m praised over and they love it and people there’s people it’s the right audience and essentially I tell people this go to where you appreciate it go to where you need it versus being where you’re tolerated most people are just in a place and they show up because they’re tolerate oh there he goes again Oh crazy so-and-so go to what you wanted man there’s a place for everybody whatever you know no matter what your freak flag is there’s other people out there who have similar ideas and who are doing it and who are confident and who they are and you don’t say what they came to do and once you know that man there’s a there’s a power that’s released to you because you know who you are and nobody gets to tell you who you are you’re like look I’m doing the self discovery I Know Who I am and because you don’t know who you are it makes you feel insecure or you want to point fingers because I represent something within you that like you said you don’t like about yourself and when you understand that you take the dog out of the fight and it’s not about you anymore it’s about them and something that you represent a part of that person that they don’t like about themselves you’re too free you know they’re bound by this they believe that if they do this they’re going to hell and here you are doing it openly and freely and you’re okay it like it’s you know but it’s good though it really helps that person of you walking in your authenticity no matter what it is it helps that person eventually find freedom if you if you stay consistent with it so just by you just by being you you’re essentially setting people free right because I feel the creative because at the end of the day you’re going to have to survive a world that doesn’t care that does think these things are strange because they put you outside of whatever the norm might be because they’re they’re subjective there are the things that can’t be controlled so I do think that that’s why that that the the creative things really do need to as you’re saying as I’m saying think about the sense of that if we think more in not a tribal sense in a bad sense but more like you got to remember in early times that there were those that said you know what I’m having inner experiences I have all of these dreams maybe we can get some logs and some fire and some some charcoal and do some drawings and story tonight instead of just freezing at night you know in a way they were looking for I think we’ve always been that in the human psyche and maybe that’s the point like in a play saying all right well if these people played this like they are afraid so they’re not the ones that are going to in a sense jump out of the nest they’re going to want to stay there but there are those that do and if I’m one of those people and this is why I’ve always loved I think a lot of us – people like William Blake and get involved with and because there’s this ferocity this this fearlessness creatively – to really just live in the integrity of the artists vision which is unapologetic – the nature of how most people want to stay within the confines of safety you know in a way that but I don’t think that’s for everybody I just think that when an artist finds themselves with that responsibility to hold that role and to do what you’re saying you’re doing there and I’m doing here which is yeah let’s find those that care about these things because we’re exhausting ourselves fighting over you know with people that don’t care about these things and maybe if we do we can grow a garden that’s beautiful enough to attract their attention rather than signs and placards telling them that they’re a bunch of idiots because people aren’t idiots people really do come from in our hearts are trying to make a story that gives them a sense of satisfaction and oftentimes when they project anger and others it’s they’re afraid for the other people because they live as you said do you know how can you do this things and and yet we must do those things because that’s all part of the play do you think that where we are now do you think art is under attack or liberties or free speech or the freedom to explore or the freedom to express yourself to some extent like we look at look at Roseanne you know trying to make a joke thinking you know and she made an honest mistake supposedly and her career is over because she missed it on our people too sensitive now I think it’s changing with the expression especially with comedians and artists and things like that you know you can’t you can’t draw a picture of Mohammed you can’t make fun of the president you can’t hold up a picture with his D cap you know in these type of things so there’s like things that are off-limits now is it becoming more like that or is it kind of always exist that you think a lot of times r oppressiveness whether it was during the time of their position with us of it you know that there’s always those that are going to put a lid on things but oftentimes it’s if you don’t react against that you start to become more subversive you say all right well I can’t be that obvious maybe I need to be more subtle I mean so their innocence painters they got away with murder because they realize they could always say to the Pope or the Cardinal oh no you misunderstand it’s it’s not about these it’s this you know it’s a picture you can and that’s why I feel like for us is why there’s my home there’s this sense of be strategic don’t think about fighting these forces because in a sense that’s what they thrive on they’re not a person they’re quality they’re what’s called an egregore a thought-form like energy attracts like energy a lot of the problem with the arts is the AI it’s the artificial intelligence of the art world self-congratulatory sense of what is important which is this is an expensive work of art it’s about the value system rather than about art and about creative conversation I really believe that the artists I tell artists don’t ask them people what they think about your work ask them what your work makes them think demand that you get into a conversation say I’m not interested in your critique I do that for myself I’m interested in where we can go because we can actually then draw the creative spirit into our shared conversation rather than critiquing the creative spirit and you can walk away feeling superior because you didn’t actually haven’t put anything on the line except you’re a fit and I’m tired of that I mean I have to say that that I miss because let’s say you want to do you want to critique then you’re doing all to the table you do it beautifully you do what we used to do as alchemists I would read your book if you wrote one fifty or a hundred times I would quite literally like creating a character to play digested memorize it so I wouldn’t just respond knee jerk I’ve never you you’re an artist so now I’ve been bad your art I’ve drunk your wine let me tell you what didn’t inspire to me do you see how that creates inspiration rather than a shuts each other down yeah if we think like martial artists the system out there that shutting everyone down is saying be strategic start gathering with those that these things matter to realize that that a healing process isn’t changing that it’s drawing that and that’s when we talk about feminine and masculine energy no authority says if you have to shout don’t because they’re not worth your time and attract their attention you found a friend because it’s not shouting at this time it’s gathering and I feel very strongly about yeah no I’m with you a hundred percent on that I’ve been I’ve been saying that with different words a lot lately as well it’s kind of a double-edged sword with the critique thing a little bit because there’s this notion of like you want to share your art with people who benefit from it people who adore people who like it people that it’s gonna help right versus the person who is critiquing it and always finding flaws in it sometimes those people think they’re doing you justice or doing you service just uh you know I’m saying this uh criticism that you know I’m saying it’s gonna help you but um so there I’ve been told of like you know you’re you I’ve been accused of having what they call yes men in your corner you’re just surrounding yourself with people who are saying yes I like it I like it you know Donald Trump we got all these people on them yeah like you know great great you know if they keep doing it and so we get accused of having yes men around us and not taking critique and criticism constructive criticism from people but at the same time because there’s people who tell you now I don’t do that I don’t like the art of what you’re doing you met you’ve messed your house up there’s this that doesn’t look right it’s not gonna assume it’s you know I’m saying stimulate at all times like all kinds of crazy stuff coming against you right but it takes that person who’s able to kind of go in to the ethers to the dream stage to the flow state and pull something out that nobody’s done nobody’s done this so how am I gonna get you’re okay if you have no idea what the hell I’m seeing in my visions I’m in my head and I’m able to go in and pull it out and you’re telling me not to because you’ve never seen it you can’t see the vision you know people want that paddle in the bag they want people to say oh man keep doing it you’re doing a great job keep it up but sometimes that’s not there and you have to go in anyway to the flow state so the dream states and pull that stuff out to be a revolutionary and I think that’s how great things are births I do I think also you have to look at everything from from Blake and the Shoreham ancients to the Sydney circle to two transcendental select offensive balance and these are really been my models one of the reasons I had the discussion was my home is I looked at Emerson the American grants and medals they said listen they’re realizing the Civil War is coming it’s a point you know in a sense the same type of terror that’s going on but but the whole sense is we have to get together if these things matter if there’s a deeper eternal nature of the human story then it is up to us to really cultivate a place where we can talk about these things we can write about these things because history is not defined by our beginning or our ending but it’s defined by the willingness to add to the conversation even in the darkest of times the sense that something might be possible and that’s why I always feel that it comes out of the creative and imaginative because as I say even in a state of despair a piece of charcoal and a stone allows what we talked about that expression to be to be made and we’re in a time I really do think of taking back the creative spirit for the creative spirit and my motto here is at least where I live this matters to me but this is my garden it’s not a garden that I’m interested in your critique of any more than I want you to critique my daughters or my wife this has to do with my law so if you want to know what is sacred this so this is not up for debate it’s not up for discussion it’s up for that which takes us into a place of shared inspiration because I’ll tell you from my musician friends my actor friends my artist friends my lover of trends that that love life I mean of my lovers but [Laughter] [Music] that sense though that we really are out of place where we’re starting to say let’s see this guiding light in us which it this matters to you this matters to me it’s not a big thing it’s an intimate thing and we know that all our crias created from the willingness to trust that’s subjective and that place of intimacy and oftentimes when people shut us down it’s because they’re very afraid of that in themselves and therefore they don’t want it in you and that’s where you realize oh well maybe we’re not ready to have this relationship so maybe you think those friends of mine are yes people but you know what you could say that was the same in the in Paris in the expats were sitting around Hemingway and all the rest saying you know what nobody’s buying our work I think I’m going off to war they’re trying to find a way to create an identity which of course they did I mean this is a great thing we find in the arts of dhatus all these different small groups of people who got together and said of course the world thinks were crazy because the world wants to go along without being bothered by that which it’s unfamiliar yeah you bring something to the table that challenges them though yeah you know I’m saying something that’s different outside of the norm and it’s good though and it helps for growth and stuff and before I get you off here have you seen the temples of humankind in Italy have you oh yes I only see pictures right yeah there’s some there’s some great relationship between what Alex gray is doing on the East Coast I’m doing on the west coast and domino’s doing in Italy and it has to do with residents in the residence you know this sense of a collective focus through art and it’s awesome well Lea I appreciate you coming on the podcast hanging out with me let people know where they can go to check out your artwork check out some of your stuff and uh okay my website is Lea McCloskey comm which is spelled le IgH McCloskey comm you can put my name Lea McCloskey with art I would highly suggest my parts on YouTube we didn’t get into it today but my painting Phoenix arise creates $1 and a holographic DNA they’re extraordinary reparation I did a talk on mandalas recently my Google my name on the power and healing power of the mandala art infinite power of mandala for the love of woman is another one I did one recently on really on the screen meaning of the Tarot where I go through my Tarot they’re very good talks about 45 minutes long and I would suggest them because they they help really bring us in through art into these greater ideas of wisdom and wisdom tradition and I think you’ll be very inspired but I would just really even with computer these days just google my name but also my book tarot revision and my cards is such a helpful tool because I was able like an archaeologist as we do to go much deeper because I didn’t have an agenda I actually just kept going and after those 17 years I can honestly say about like trip and a little piece of good furnitures a darn fine phrase the furniture so use it and be inspired but thank you yeah thanks for coming on man I have to make it up there sometime what uh what I say to you in your in California right California I’m in Malibu California so we’re out on the coast and I grew up two miles from here so I’m the native boy it’s a it’s all it’s all yeah hi my brother thank you for coming on we have to get up and do something something soon and I’d like I’d like to collaborate with you or something okay great thank you