Leonard Jones of MorningStar Ministries | The Power of Music | Worship and Warfare

Leonard Jones of MorningStar Ministries | The Power of Music | Worship and Warfare
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPKLZrdgfXM
Transcript source: YouTube captions

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seeker so with that being said that's
out the way I want to welcome my guest
today this is Leonard Jones of
Morningstar ministries Leonard welcome
to the podcast brother how are you oh
man it's such a blessing to be able to
speak with you like I don't know if you
get this all the time but I definitely
came up listening to the music you guys
were doing at Morningstar in the mid 90s
the birth of the prophetic movement in
my book I've read the final quest and it
was accompanied by all the CDs that you
guys were putting out and it was when
God took me deeper in my own prophetic
abilities and the whole gifting was
shrouded with Morningstar ministries all
the people hanging out with the churches
the conferences the school of the
prophets and things like that was
shrouded in Morningstar ministries and
music so you were the soundtrack to
really my spiritual awakening and walk
with Christ and I've encountered the
Holy Spirit on so many deep levels
through your music so it's the honor and
blessing that to have you on my show and
to be able to talk to you also would you
say that
Morningstar ministries or was kind of
the pivotal marking for the prophetic
movement like I tell a lot of people I
don't want to hope I'm not facetious by
saying this but I say that there
wouldn't really be a Bethel without the
early morning star days would you is
that safe to say that Bethel came out of
Morningstar well I would say a lot of
the musicians you know like came to our
conferences you know back in the day and
so I think we would definitely influence
them there's no doubt I'm John and Brian
if had told me that yeah they they were
incredibly you know impacted you know
and just about everybody that I I've got
all my friends like Stephanie
and Josh Baldwin who came out of our
school and just a whole bunch of the
people that are with Bethel actually
came through our worship school and it's
a we definitely have and they have an
influence on us and we had in there it's
definitely symbiotic yeah do you think
that you guys recaptured like the
Davidic style of worship that was kind
of lost for a long time do you got you
guys think you went back and recaptured
that you know I don't think we really
actually had a plan you know it was just
kind of it was just one of those things
we just loved God we love to worship and
and all it all came together at the same
time like the very first conference that
was a big impact on the whole worship
scene in general was the part of David
conferences and it was actually just one
conference we got four CDs out of that
live CDs and I think it was like the
perfect storm you know I mean like the
intercessors were really starting to
arise that take take authority where
they needed to and at the same time we
had on that the first stage I mean we
had pretty famous studio musicians that
had just gotten saved or you know had
just started doing stuff for the Lord
and so you had like the pinnacle of
musicianship along with the pinnacle of
intercession and then you add a hunger
to that you know and and we were just
going for it we we had no idea what we
were doing
we still don't you know probably though
is we love God you know I love music I
love to play music and you know I use it
all the time I'm you know to to minister
to the Lord with you know I I do it
every day
that's it that's a neat phrase there you
use it all the time to minister to the
Lord and it kind of sets up this this
question here what does that mean for
you because I feel like there's a
difference when we're like singing forth
truths and prophetic utterances and like
declaration verses were singing about
God versus singing to God
what's the difference there yeah well
well like this morning I was just I was
just basically practicing my guitar and
singing and but I was directing that
towards the Lord you know what I mean I
mean it's just it's just a mind exercise
basically you know I just I could I
could practice or I can practice like
he's he's here going you know saying
like hey I like that do that again
yeah you know and it's like a second
musical fellowship you know between me
and God and it's really where I get I
get my worship tighter than that when
I'm leading worship I don't really get
much out of that I'm always going on
there's too much going on you know but
but when I'm alone you know in my little
practice room and I'm just singing to
the Lord you know that's that's where I
really get to connect yeah that's
awesome so singing to the Lord I mean
let me ask you about this because one
understanding music one just
understanding sound and stuff then and
this is like a personal question that I
had when it comes to date like King
David being a psalmist and we see like
the story where King David was playing
before Saul who was troubled by evil
spirits and when he played the stringed
instrument something happened something
shifted and the evil spirit left let me
ask you this is this because David was
anointed and he was a psalmist and he
worshiped the Lord and he understood the
power of his music or whatever or is it
just understanding the power of music in
general that music has the power
to bring forth peace or change the mood
or change the atmosphere and anyone
could do it or words as specifically
that he understood that he was
worshipping God with with his
instruments or something like that well
I think it's a little bit of both
you know I mean like obviously in the
secular world they have musical music
therapy mm-hmm you know and it really
works you know and those people might or
might not be Christian you know you
never know with uh with my my stuff I've
I've I've had hundreds of testimonies
where people were they would just stick
on like I have these for violin CDs it's
just
instrumental worship you know we just
just play out of my heart you know to
the lord and so many people I'm a Heidi
Baker told me that's she has those on
like on rotation at her at her place you
know and I've had lots of people say the
same thing
Lance wall now told me that he likes to
go running with my with that stuff you
know so there's something about you know
just music in itself it's it definitely
has power I mean you can't you can't go
here you know a mass or ski symphony or
you know Sibelius Violin Concerto and
not be moved
yeah you know and and that was some of
those guys maybe personally may not be
you know but the music itself definitely
has something to it I think that when
you add a heart for God yeah I think it
gives it a little extra plunge and and
I've had there's a kid that came up in
one of my conferences and he said and he
was like he was bald and there was a kid
you know and he goes my parents brought
me your song oh yeah the long version
it's about 18 minutes we just listened
to it in our discourse at
yeah and he said he said I had it on
continual rotation and I've been going
through
I've got he called the bone cancer and
he said my last scan I was due to die
my last scans I'm totally cancer-free
you know and he he attributed having
that song playing 24 hours a day that
one song just repeating yeah over and
over again and that's that particular
song it was a mixture of so many things
there was things that we did in the
studio there was things that we did live
and we mixed and matched you know - but
you if you listen to it you can't deny
when the when the spirit takes over and
Ricky Skaggs jumps up on the stage and
grabs my mandolin or violent I think I
was being manly and just something
happened over and over again that whole
comprehend it was it was remarkable you
know that so the music itself has
something there's but there's also
something about excellence that people
lose they when you don't you might be
able to have the great spirit you know
and a good heart and all that kind of
stuff you know but when you're really
great on your instrument you can go
anywhere the Lord tells you to go yeah
you know that's kind of the difference
in what we did and what the rest of the
church was doing at the time because we
came into those sessions with pretty
much great musicianship you know
everybody you know if we're in see if
some of the changes to e-flat everybody
goes there on it either you didn't have
to have that whisper Michael and we're
going to you know because everybody has
perfect pitch everybody knew exactly
where we're going so that's why there
was prophetic moments with last 20
minutes yeah you know rather than you
know like the Kevin Kross
thing that he did with us of the praise
the Lord on my soul that actually was
about 45 minutes long you know and it
was pretty awesome but when me and Don
Potter were mixing it we had to cut it I
mean I guess we could have made one
album out of that well I think we cut it
down to 18 minutes yeah you know but
that was a prime example of everybody
knowing what to do because they were so
well-versed on their instrument they
could hear and listen so you're
listening to yourself you're listening
to from heaven you're listening to your
fellow musicians and it's this whole
intertwining thing that happens and
that's what I call prophetic you know
sound and prophetic music because part
of it is part of its God part of its you
you know it's if you it's it's just as
mixed it's it's awesome I love it in to
be honest with buddy it doesn't work
with untrained musicians they really
have to know what you're doing yeah it's
like they want to go there but they
can't you know what to do you know
excuse me thinking about um a psalmist
right we're talking about people just
grabbing the instrument playing there
are certain people that when they grab
the instrument and this is the people
that I personally call us honest when
they pick up a guitar violin whatever
that stringed instrument is and they
start playing it and you immediately
feel the power of God just they don't
even have to open their mouth or
anything they could hit two or three
notes mm presence of God there that
atmosphere changes they understand what
kind of what's going on I think that's a
psalmist as well so you have people who
can do that just just about playing the
instruments and it almost seems like the
instrument is a conductor or a conduit
for what you're going through
whether it's rage and anger and hatred
like it can come out through your music
you can come out as you play that energy
gets gets amplified almost or project it
or if you're if you're someone who's
been fasting you're just desiring God
and going
I'm saying deeper levels with God and
you've been alone and you've going
through that process and you get and you
start playing the guitar that comes out
- and it changed that has a power over
the atmosphere is that kind of what
happens like did like the instruments
whatever they may be are like a project
it's almost acts as a projector of what
you're what type of intention you want
to push out yet yeah what's your
whatever your feeling is is definitely
going to come out in your instrument I
yesterday I was at John Mark McMillan's
Church I was playing violin and a viola
and a cello just picking stuff and there
was a lot of things going on you know I
couldn't hear extremely well you know so
I had to what I had to do was really
just listen for something first
you know I I don't like I try not to
overplay I was I was playing on a couple
of CDs with Jason up in one time and I
saw the video and I'm just playing all
the time I'm just like just whatever you
know and when I heard the CDs I could
hardly have every once in a while I
could hear the violin so they just kept
pulling me down when I when I was over
playing so and I've gotten to the point
where I wait until I hear something in
my head you know when I hear it
okay well that add to the music if it
will add then I play what I hear in my
head and now that thing that was in my
head that could come from me it also
could come from God you know who knows
all I know is when people people come up
afterwards and they so say my god when
you started playing do that violin
something happened inside of me yeah I
had that tendency to think those
melodies that I would get or the little
whatever I get came from God yeah at
that time because I mean I'm not that
really of a great violinist I'm I but I
can play
pretty much whatever I can hear in my
head I can play it as soon as I hear and
I know where those notes are and that
takes a lot of your training you know so
you I'm mixing those things back and
forth I'm mixing what I'm hearing from
with my ear training with listening to
things I think the results are okay
does it really touch people you know
does it really get passed you know I
mean when people walk into Church and
they get into a worship thing their
spirit usually is already open you know
their soul usually is not you know their
soul which is their emotions their the
you know the the feelings that you get
you know when you're in worship you know
a lot of times you know you walk in you
know your spirit you'll you'll sing the
words but your soul doesn't get touched
you know and so my my ideas it is like
if you really want to get touch
somebody's soul you you you can't just
place them the spirit stuff you've got
to play for I think your soul - yeah you
know and so when I play out of my soul
and and and my spirit which is they're
very intertwined
you know it's then that's when I noticed
a real difference whereas if I just
if I just played a solo I see nothing
you know or here you know but if I just
play something out of my heart not in my
soul all of a sudden people had their
hands appraised you know because they
know they're theirs they know that's
different you know and and I believe
secular people can hit the same thing
you know I mean I I watch concerts all
the time I i'll see these concerts by
you know like Humphries McGee or
something like that you know and you can
tell they think they're playing a song
on their planes all of a sudden they get
into this it's it's like almost a
prophetic groove I don't know exactly
how to explain it and you look at the
audience and everybody has their hands
raised yeah because everybody knows okay
that's supernatural because they don't
know what they're doing they don't you
know know
he knows what's going on up there you
know that Suns something just took over
now whether or not that was God well who
knows but something takes over when you
know when you start when you get out of
the black note you know on the page you
know and start playing out of the white
note that's inside of you you know it's
it really makes a big difference you
think you think that that was something
that the prophets understood as well
because like we see in the scriptures
that there was a school of the prophets
and there was this awesome scripture
that says that they come walking down
the hill holding all their instruments
like they all had all these instruments
or whatever and they and and they you
know I'm saying they were prophets they
understood that the thing that's key
they understood the power of music and
the power of worship and vibration and
energy and all that kind of stuff I
think they did but I think it was just
by accident that they found that out you
know I mean I like King David you know
he just decided you know you know I'm
gonna build I'm gonna build this
tabernacle I'm gonna hire all these
musicians you know and and I'm gonna get
the very best of the best and I'm gonna
pay him you know what they're due and
but he but when that happened all of a
sudden the glory of the Lord came into
the house and the priests couldn't even
stand a minister now I don't think David
knew or Solomon knew that was going to
happen you know I think they were just
doing it because but I'm just gonna do
this for the glory of God you know but
they didn't realize that God was
actually touched by that music you know
and when he when he was touched that's
when the cloud came in that's when the
people couldn't they couldn't stand the
minister wouldn't I had to come the
conference I was telling you about at
the last day of the conference we did a
song called I want to hold your hand by
the Beatles because this is a long time
ago and we had
they run out of Christian songs we had
nothing else we then we knew nothing
else if we were gonna have to start
repeating or something side I just took
the Beatles song I want to hold your
hand and man the power of God came in
the room a cloud appeared on the stage
with we had we didn't have smoke
machines back then I mean this is a real
glory cloud yeah showed up on the stage
stayed for like 20 seconds or 30 seconds
Dairyland the bass player that was
playing on the session on the that day
he was what's that I said well I think
that's the glory Club you've always
heard about in the Bible and so I'm
looking out towards the audience the
audience is freaking out everybody's
freaking out I'm looking through this
cloud you know that it's not smoke
because it looked like little particles
of water or something you know and
there's like a mist but it wasn't it
wasn't a smoke and when it dissipated it
dissipated it went like this I just like
disappeared like him about 3 or 4
seconds huh we had that on video and it
was just you know but here's my take on
it was God started to come into the room
his manifest presence and I believe that
the you know you might call heaven a
parallel universe I don't know whatever
I believe it broke through the veil for
a second you know and and I believe
that's what that's when the atmosphere
reacted to that power you know the power
of God came in a cloud that I've never
seen sense never saw before heard about
it but I've never seen one like this you
know I've seen some things at other
places you know and I go I don't know
you know that could be you know that
could be you know it's just like you
know burnt out or something you know but
this was real power of God you know
and it was done by music you know God
it affected God to the point he couldn't
he couldn't do anything else but come
into the room
what about smell have you ever had those
encounters we've been in worship or been
praising and you fit your smell a sweet
aroma maybe flowers or honey have y'all
had those encounters as well I've heard
of other people I don't I've never had
it I've you know like I said my my best
times of worship are you know on my on
my own by myself on a rock in the woods
somewhere yeah you know that that kind
of thing and I don't know there's those
special manifestations you know I
believe I totally believe God does them
you know the problem you know the thing
is he one person may smell it and the
other person may not smell it is because
that that person needed to smell that
you know now this this particular night
went and the cloud showed up everybody
thought yeah you know and so there was
no mistaken and me and Don Potter mixed
the song and put it on one of our tour
CDs the worship CD and when the cloud
showed up we we only had 24 tracks of I
think it was a dot or something like
that tape when all the vu meters when
when that happened the cloud showed up
all of emitters 24m go like this oh yeah
Wow up to the top now that's impossible
you know because there's certain mics
with different different eq's different
levels all of them go like this you know
and you can hear it on the CD you hear
this this rumbling kind of thing like I
don't know like Raiders of the Lost Ark
or something you know I mean it was real
you know you could see it on the 24
tracks we couldn't get it off we
couldn't figure out what what
us and so yep no that's awesome yeah now
I remember that man just not doing you
can feel it's so it's so weird how
you're able to capture that stuff on CD
right or on the audio files just like
you know we would be you know having our
own prayer meetings at home listening to
y'all's music and we'd listen to the
crowd and listen to this shift in the
spirit and we'd be able to be almost
translated transported there with you
guys a couple years after that was taped
right or filmed if we're watching it on
video or whatever the case was and we'll
be able to experience that with you
that's the beautiful thing about it is
that there is no such thing as time
right that we can you know especially
with God he said I mean he's the guy who
kind of you know those are sins as far
as the east to the west and I understand
that is being he's able to go back in
time and just erase it like it never
happened
you know I'm saying that's what he's
able to do so so beautiful when we get
to experience his glory and that and
that in that way manifested in our lives
or in a group effort it's so beautiful
um so let me ask you about this cuz like
there's this understanding now we've
kind of been studying it in here and
some people talk about it a little bit
and I've just tried it in my own life
and maybe it goes back to just
understanding the power of music and
understanding what you know being a
psalmist is or having that intention
before you go into worship maybe but
people are like having these encounters
like you're saying you go into your own
you know personal prayer closet with the
Lord you have this static encounter he
shows up he loves on you and you say you
know what I'm gonna bring this encounter
now that I've experienced this that when
I do go into a corporate environment I
can tap into that place and bring you
guys with me because I've experienced
that almost like stepping into a portal
or vortex whatever you want to put cool
names on it or whatever do you think
that that's possible when you when you
go into worship and should you do that
I think it's possible again it it relies
on the how well-trained the other
musicians are because I can do it myself
one of the reasons I can do it you know
because I can I can do anything I hear
you now if I go in like I lead the
Friday night meetings here at
Morningstar and I use students and a lot
of them are super talented but they're
not super experienced and neither are
they super well-trained yet I what I do
in my worship school is I mean we you
know we really I put them through the
wringer you know I make them learn how
to read music I make them learn how to
hear note sight they learn all their
music theory they you know so that when
they get in those situations and they
know what to do they know when those
chords changed what those chords are
they and so it doesn't happen very often
excuse me with untrained musicians you
know I mean it can you know but it's not
going to it's not going to travel far
and wide like art like those CDs that
you were talking about I mean the
harmonica player you know I mean he he
played with Def Leppard and he played
with Larry Carlton and all these really
famous you know folks the the other
percussionist was like with michael w
smith you know Don Potter was with Chuck
Mangione with what's-her-name oh the
judge you know Susie was with you know
you know so all these people were very
famous studio musicians you know and
very well-versed and they do exact as
soon as those courts hit they knew
exactly what to do
unexperienced musicians don't know what
to do you know and there's a direct
correlation in how deep that you can go
in the spirit by how well you were
trained in the natural and I know you
people won't you know you know it's you
know will negate that well I can tell
you where I've gone yeah in the spirit
with musicians like that and I know and
I can
where they've gone and it's nowhere near
you know that kind of I think I think
that that principle kind of sets up the
next question because if that's true
then it must be universal for even your
theology like how deep you know God
allows you to see how deep you want to
go with him in worship in experience and
we've seen a lot of people who may have
been in a prophetic movement it's stuff
like that and seeing God move and do
miracles and signs and wonders and all
of these really cool things and then
they get with another sect of
Christianity that says you know what
that's that stuff y'all words into isn't
biblical it's not of God that wasn't God
who did it their understanding changes
they don't believe that anymore and then
now their doctrine and theology doesn't
allow them to go that that deep in the
spirit anymore because they're under
this I wanted on paper type deal show me
on paper don't it's not about
experiences your feelings can deceive
you you know all of these weird things
that come along with it so it kind of
lines up what you're saying that what
you've learned on the instrument how
much knowledge understanding you've done
there it allows you to go deeper and
essentially what you I think with your
doctrine and theology heaven either can
be an open gate or a closed gate or
limiter on on you I'm saying the things
that you see in the spirit as well have
you seen that I mean there's been people
who come and go all through that's part
of part of the game is people coming and
going throughout our lives and
especially with religion and
spirituality like one little difference
of opinion you won't hear somebody from
somebody again sometimes you know and
it's kind of hard but with y'all's
movement and stuff man have you seen
that a lot where people's theologies
will change in one minute they're there
they're leading they're in ministry with
you then the next the next they're
slandering and telling people to stay
away from you and things like that
because of theology have you seen that I
think it depends where let me try to get
with I had a thought but I just can't
quite get it the did they believe it in
the first place you know what I mean
like
in other words when I got saved people
were witnessing to me I started I
started going to this church for like
six months before I got saved and I sat
through offices Assembly of God Church
so there was an altar call every Sunday
yeah you know and and so I sat through
like six months of altar calls because I
to be honest I just didn't want to be
talked into something you know and so
how I met the Lord was I was reading the
Bible I was studying I was trying to
figure out what case is true that's true
I want to fall if it's not I want to go
on with my life and I'm sitting in
McDonald's on Third Street in
Jacksonville Florida reading the Bible
and all of a sudden it's like my mind
just flipped over and I and I thought
God this is true what I'm reading is the
truth Jesus really did this and I've
always said this you know nobody talked
me into it so nobody can talk me out of
yeah that's good you know and I look at
I saw the things that were going on you
know that people were saying this you
know the these outbreaks and all this
kind of stuff you know and then a lot of
those people still aren't aren't
following the Lord anymore and they're
off you know do whatever they want to do
and I look at it I go okay you really
didn't believe that in the first place
you were just you were kind of parroting
what you thought people wanted you to
say and you were you know it's because
if you believe it and if it came to you
in the rebel nobody can take that from
you did you know and so I think that
there's just a few things that I've held
on to you know I hold on to you know you
know the the Lord Himself you know and
that he was you know I know and I state
this all the time you know I don't know
hold on I still say I don't know a lot
about you got I know I know you're good
I can tell that you're good
I know that you know I know that Jesus
is the Son of God I mean there's nothing
you can do to ever take that out of me I
know that he's the son of God I know
that it was born of a virgin you know I
know that he died I know that he was
resurrected I know that he sits at the
right hand of God you know that nobody
can ever take that away because no
because you know and of course I'd heard
that but when he showed me that it was
true then you can't take that away from
yeah you know and and there's a big I
don't know if you I don't know what's
like in Mobile you're in Alabama mobile
huh
but I mean I go to a lot of churches
around the world you know and there's a
lot of people just not going to church
anymore yeah you know and I mean good
people that and but a lot of you still
love the Lord yeah a lot of them are
still you know watching videos reading
the Bible witnessing and stuff but
they're just tired of the game yeah you
know and I understand it you know I
every time I do a meeting somewhere I
always I always ask myself the question
why why do we do this
you know what why are we here what's
what's what is the use of what we're
doing you know and I always to me always
rolls back to my relationship with God
not my relationship to the church not my
relationship to the truth but my
relationship with God and I just enjoy
him you know I enjoy playing my guitar
to him I enjoy playing my violin or
piano or mandolin or sitar or whatever
I'm playing
I enjoyed that you know and he seems to
enjoy it too you know and so and I don't
know the answer and I don't know what
the answer is that's going to get people
back into church you know I do know that
church as it is right now is
working for the next generation for the
most part now there's a few hotspots but
I'm looking at yeah definitely hotspot
yeah yeah but I'm looking at most places
I'm going yeah you know okay the music
is great the preaching is great
the building is great why isn't this
place packed out with hungry young
people you know now I see it somewhere
what places I was just in Barney a
couple of months ago and the little
church was just packed to the rim yeah
you know these people and and this is in
a country and it was a pretty much a
Muslim country and this is a Christian
Church but they still had them guys on
one side and the girls on the other side
you know of the church you know I mean
there was there was two seating sections
but as soon as the worship started they
bomb the whole church came forward yeah
and it was all intermingled at that
point dropped out for a second my
internet we're good though okay anyway
the so that's my my answer is I don't
know the answer on how to get them back
in to the church but I'm not so sure
it's not God to be honest Wow yeah
because sometimes God has to let
something like a system die in order to
create a new system because they he
can't he can't take that old wineskin
and do what he wants yeah and there's
just weird resentment that's there as
well for those like from the church
leaders oh yeah for those who quit going
and they're like shaking their finger or
you know you always say well they're not
walking with the Lord anymore and
there's this thing I've been finding now
just to let people know that look just
because you don't go to a church it
doesn't mean that you're not part of the
church and that God hasn't given up on
you and God you know still loves you and
still can use you and I've just been you
know singing that from you know this
podcast and reaching people who are
looking into other things like they're
gone into different movements or
maybe gone into New Age or witchcraft or
whatever the case is but there they
still love the Lord but they just aren't
fulfilled in church because of their
different you know rules and regulations
and and weird theologies that have the
die off you know with with time and
stuff too and it's like they love God
but they can't keep their mouth shut
because there's just so many weird
things that we've put up with over the
years that people now they're not having
it you know and just so because there is
still a hunger there for people people
still love God and they're gonna bring
God with them and whatever wherever they
are they're doing a pretty good job at
it man but it's just to let them know
that you're not alone right right I'm
dealing with that a lot so it's really
cool just I mean obviously that that one
phrase you're not alone
like for me is that it's done wonders
for people just letting them know and
like it's just so easy and I get so many
messages wow I thought that this was you
know my pastor said this or so-and-so
said this because I'm not this and say
look God God hasn't given up on you just
because you have you think differently
you act differently you worship
differently whatever the case is like
you're still part of the kingdom and
just seeing life come back to people man
it's beautiful but there is still a
hunger there but it's just like and
people are more they're more open talk
about God right now than any time I've
ever seen it yeah part of me was
thinking it it has it may have something
to do with social media like with the
internet in information everything's
there at your fingertips and you know
it's like it's almost like it takes the
place of that need of Jesus because
whatever you need is there but it's
never gone it's never gonna like you
know saying deep down it's never gonna
replace that void so it's always there
but maybe because we're changing as a
society as a people as humans really the
way we interact with technology it's
changing our genetic makeup or all this
stuff is changing but it's never gonna
take that that void away is never going
to so it's really strange to see with
the generation coming up under us their
need and how they are reacting when do
they get there is it at 14 is it at 12
is it when they reach puberty is when
they have an income
when is it so it's very interesting to
watch the next generation come up and
say when is the key moment that we need
to you know how do we uh you know
present the gospel in a way that's
appealing the gospel is appealing and
not water it down but how do we present
it to them where they're gonna get it
you know right it's really interesting
but back to the subject of music let me
ask you about this people are you always
here you know Satan was the worship
leader in heaven and I don't know if
that is sound theology I know I've heard
it for years what do you think about
that because when people are talking
about the power of music and music
travels through the air and Satan's over
the Prince of the air and things like
that always hear these little one-liners
when it comes to be careful about the
music you listen to even in churches
like there's a lot of churches that
don't even let you play drums or the
tambourines or symbols and things like
that what do you what do you feel when
it comes to the devil
being over music yeah I think it's a
joke
I'm with you yeah I never believed it
I've read those scriptures and I'm
thinking he's talking about a king I
know right come on out yeah he's just
talking about somebody you know and
somebody just like but it preached good
yeah you know and and people who that's
something new you know it's like
tickling here you know the Bible says in
the last days people are going to be
have itching ears you know I'll tell me
something new you know and then and it's
like that's not even like you said I
don't think it sounds theology
whatsoever yeah having said that I think
music is again is in the hands of the
human soul on the human spirit
you know and you you can take it either
way yeah you know you can you know and
of course I think that the devil can
definitely influence people and I think
you do have to be careful of what you
listen to I I let one of my dollars
listen to some stuff up you know and I
shouldn't have you know and I was just
trying to be open-minded yeah
you know
now looking back on it I thought man why
did I do that
you know and I my one of my reasons was
I thought that's actually the music is
really quite good you know and but I
really should have I should have stopped
it you know so I think if if they're in
your household and you're over Authority
and you hear something and they're there
you know doing something wrong you know
spiritually I think you should stop you
know you know obviously you can't I
don't know if it's so great from the
pulpit to say something you know about
it you know but if they're in your
household and and somebody could say
well the pulpit that is that pastor's
household maybe you know I think it's
just I think everybody has to do that
you know whatever they think is you know
the best way to do it I I do know that I
mean I I made the mistake but my friend
a friend of mine was running sound for
Marilyn Manson and he said man you you
need to see this show you said is the
and my friend is a Christian he's and he
was doing that he was on running sounded
for the Ozzfest here here in town so I
took our sound man and I'm one of my
keyboard players I said do you guys want
to go and and we you know we went and I
when he came out on the stage and and
berated the Lord and berated and just
was just in two minutes I said to the
guys I am so so sorry I I didn't know it
this you know I said we needed to leave
and I took him out of there I was just I
was going on my friends advice you know
he said man this is the best show out
there and and I'll be honest with these
I mean
Marilyn Manson musically as a genius you
know I the the music he was creating is
is incredible but man when you add that
bad spirit and it's a bad spirit yeah
you know along with it yeah then I can
definitely say to you as a Christian
don't listen to Maryland yeah you know
because I've been I mean I've had
experience with it and I go you know you
just don't listen to that kind of stuff
you know because he's blatantly was
going after the Lord and so yeah but but
it's Satan give him that power not not
in the least God gave him the power to
do it you know I mean Alice Cooper who
now is a Christian you know I mean he
wasn't using it for God now it be uses
what you know he still does his song
yeah yeah but he talks about God yeah
yeah you know insane from Megadeth as
well but God gave those you know every
good and perfect gift
the Bible says comes down from the
Father of lights and Satan is not the
father of lights he's the Prince of the
power of the air which is different you
know and so and I and music is a good
and perfect gift you know so now it can
be perverted again I think it's through
the human soul you know and and what
they have worshiped yeah that's good
yeah but what they've worship you hear
like you you hear that a lot about uh
Christian leaders taking the the youth
group to uh to go see movies you know
and they walk in and like uh we gotta go
you know they take them in then they
gotta apologize and stuff like that and
it happens with movies but sometimes you
gotta take a chance sometimes you could
be missing out or you don't want to just
be in fear that the devil is here or the
devil is there I mean there's those
people out there too
when it comes to secular music though
what do you think that the deal is I
know it's just music in general I've
heard stuff where like there there are
secular songs that I don't know maybe
are annoying it or speak to you where
you are maybe that's what's going on you
guys have redone a lot of secular songs
over the years and did a really good job
at it I can't listen to those secular
songs now without hearing your lyrics so
that definitely happened um so what what
happens there there's people that are
saying that they are annoying it I've
heard catchphrases was they're just
running from the Lord and they don't
know it and I've heard other other
analogies just saying that you know the
scripture says that the giftings
and Collins and talents are without
reproach the Lord doesn't give it to you
and take it away so they're annoying it
now they're doing the devil's work but
there are those secular songs I don't
know if they were created or if they
were raised in church or they knew what
they were doing but there is something
there that some of those songs are just
more anointed than what we hear on
Christian radio you know yeah well when
when God brought the children of Israel
out of Egypt he told him he said go and
borrow
it's funny that he uses the words
borrowed was he knew that they weren't
going to give it back he said goat
borrow gold borrow all the other things
that you need you know and get it from
your owner so so and the Bible says in
this way that's how they spoiled the
Egyptians they went and they got all
this stuff well they took it into the
wilderness and that's what they go the
tabernacle with the stuff that they
stole you know for me Egypt you know
they it was do then it was back wages
you know but basically but they lied you
know they went and they and as far as I
can tell them I could be in the wrong
here but I remember God I remember in
the Bible he says go and borrow from
your you know and from the earth of
people you know the Egyptians and and
then then we're going to go out and so
they go out you know and they they built
the temple
I look at secular music as as that gold
you know that I just take it I mean
right now we're learning a song by
Chicago called you're the inspiration
you know and you don't even have to
change
one accessory instead of you don't have
well I don't say baby in the song but
you know you might have heard that song
you know that it's a really cool song
and kind of like what is a sloppy wet
kiss we got to change that yeah I mean I
can worship to that stuff you know I
don't have any problem without it oh
yeah you know it's to me that's the
that's the gold that you build the
temple with you know oh so we talk about
music
let me just transition it let's see what
you got to say about this so with music
is always accompanied with the dance
where does dance come in to worship and
I'm sure that that over the years
they've been people who come in and do
deep Studies on the power of dance and
change falling off of you David danced
you know saying naked ly before the Lord
you know without any restrictions or
anything like that what is the power of
the dance come through like him break
through and worship well it's never it's
not used very often you know
I can tell you that the I'm sitting in a
room and I'm at what used to be called
PTL with Jim Baker and oh no baby oh I
came to work here about 30-some years
ago to work for Jim Baker before his
heart fall and and and then I used to do
the music here on the grounds for PTL
and in the lady that danced here I can't
remember her name right now but she
would dance she would just put like she
would dance to CDs and stuff like that
and I've never been touched
nobody's ever sung a song that touched
me the way that dance touched me Wow
yeah and I have this friend these
friends of mine up in Ottertail
Minnesota there it's a place called the
creamery so the most creative community
I've ever seen in my whole life the
dance the art the music the architecture
that the
up with you know I mean it's in magazine
since stuffing the pastor's daughter
Sophie who was one of my students in at
a school in Germany for a while and then
and she came to this school - she has a
dead she did a dance troupe a couple
years ago and I couldn't I mean it was
I don't you ever seen those videos stomp
yeah you know I mean it was it was that
caliber yeah you know I mean with rhythm
things you know with poles and stuff you
know and just like you know it was very
very powerful I don't see that in work
you know I see like ladies with long
dresses spinning around with tambourine
wishing ourself doing it or was there
mono oh oh she had benign fits with her
oh all super trained I mean it was it it
was as good as anything Janet Jackson
ever put on or I'll say or any any of
those I mean it was awesome you know and
of course the devil does not want to get
that out of the bag you know he wants to
keep that you know totally in the
secular world if anybody tells me that
dancing is of the devil why is it that
when a one-year-old is learning how to
walk and the music comes on that they
start mm-hmm jumping up and down you
know they you know and you you hear
weird theologies out there though man
you know there's all kinds of stuff you
had to put up with over the years
traveling to a lot of churches myself
doing gospel rap actually over the years
and I've just seen wow just crazy stuff
over the years I'm down here in the
Bible Belt too so it's just like you can
imagine right the church is right next
door to each other had these crazy ideas
about what God is and what he looks like
and what he allows and things like that
you know what was your favorite album
with Morningstar and what was your
favorite album that you've put out by
yourself hmm
under your name I think battleground was
a it was a really good album it's mostly
my songs
but it just there was energy on that I
don't I don't I don't hear a lot of
energy and worship music anymore yeah
you know and it was that was there was
just some great songs you know on that
and when when that came out
I took John Mark McMillan and amber
Brooks and Luke's gags and my son and
Fergus Marsh the bass player for Kevin
frosh and we went down to Brazil and we
were doing this Youth Conference down
there there's like 5,000 youth you know
and me and Luke Skaggs had written this
song called burning bush which is like
just it's kind of like a filter but kind
of rock and roll fiddle kind of a thing
and all of a sudden like two or three
thousand of them started yelling out you
know and I'm going how in the world we
just put that album out how in the world
did people in Brazil know that song yeah
sorry that my computer just did that
you're good in the so anyway that that
album was it was awesome
but I still to this day my favorite CD
did I put out as a thing called
perspective and and and I love that
album because it was it was one of those
things where it was I had I had just
left my store for a while to start doing
worship schools all over the world and
and you know when I left I I started
listening to the way I was playing the
way I was writing and I thought well I'm
not very good and I've gotten really bad
and I was so started spending real time
thinking about my lyrics what am I
trying to say you know thinking about my
music what am i what am i trying
stay with my music and so I I wrote
these songs and they came just from my
private time in the morning just you
know just playing unto the Lord and I
went out and did this conference out in
Colorado and this place called
resurrection church really cool church
and the pastor it was a men's meeting
there was about a thousand men there and
they were really touched by the new
songs and in the pastor city and these
are awesome songs he said when are you
gonna record them I said well I don't
you know I don't have a job whenever I
get the money you know he goes well how
much would it take and I said I don't
know and he so he went out before after
the last session he goes look how many
you guys like these songs and you know
but he was like yeah yeah you know he
said we're gonna take an offering and
we're going to we're gonna we're going
to get these songs recorded and they
took up an offering and it was thirty
six thousand dollars you know and so I
had a had a studio here in town at three
which is a really great studio that he
that Jason Upton does a lot of stuff
there and just everybody is a it's
probably the biggest best studio on the
East Coast so I went in there I hired
all the musicians the the best musicians
I know to come in and play and and I
paid them what they would get in
Nashville I paid each musician 600 bucks
a day you know which is what that's a
normal you know for a high-quality
studio musician there did they get six
to twelve hundred a day in Nashville and
and so I I didn't have that budget we
strength that you normally have and so
consequently that album was really
high-quality we recorded it at 96 rather
than 44.1 we mixed to high speed half
inch
you know I was gonna go analog but the
tape cost was was gonna kill me you know
and so I ended up we I went in one two
hours in the studio and recorded every
instrument and we ran we let we ran on
tape you know a half inch tape on a
Studer 24 track machine and then we we
also ran 98 96 K on you know Pro Tools
and that was the closest thing you know
you could probably go up to one was at
188 that's or whatever it is a higher
resolution on Pro Tools but we really
could we could hardly tell the
difference that we could still tell a
little difference on the analog and the
Pro Tools by running higher resolution
but to you know the difference in tape
costs and all time and all that it was
like six or seven thousand more dollars
and I just didn't have it you know but
if I ever get the money again I mean I
would totally analog everything you know
people who swear by a man oh it's it's
the there's still me digital doesn't
really still come close yeah yeah the
records I mean that's coming back to I
think they said vinyl sales right now or
are actually higher than CD sales oh
that's interesting
yo CDs are selling in anymore - yeah
that's what they all are no that's the
thing right it makes you think you know
spend the extra money to do it to get
the sales so that's really interesting
how does something will come out and
it's up gonna kind of be obsolete and
then it'll come back
I think it's nostalgia though for the
most part you know yeah but it's also
just sit in a room put a CD on and put a
record on yes and you you can hear the
difference
Celie goes from like 20 haired subdued
like 20,000 records go from what one up
to
whatever has been created 50,000 a teeth
I mean way beyond with the hearing range
yeah but you you feel those high-end
things you feel it with the hairs and
who knows years you know that's why it
was announced is different yeah you can
hear what we're hearing is one thing but
feeling it's another right have you done
any Studies on what is it um
cymatics have you looked up any
documentaries or done any study it was
pretty much the different there's tones
and and chords that you can play and
water and sand will actually take the
shape of that I've seen that yeah I have
seen it yeah
and there's certain there's certain
notes I mean that's something you can
feel as well like they played that off
note or that but uh you know I'm saying
chord that's just kind of like it just
feels depressing when you play it and
all depressing songs are in this key and
essentially like if you do it with the
water you can you can hook it up to a
speaker and it's pretty easy to make I'm
gonna make one but it makes out these
complex geometric patterns the ones that
are pleasing and more aesthetic sounding
to the body make you feel good they make
beautiful patterns and the ones that are
just like confusing and feel bad they
make just confusing patterns and in our
body is made out of what 70 percent
water is it you know what I'm saying so
when we're hearing that music or the
positive words or affirmations are being
spoke over you like it has something to
do with that man like the energy that is
through sound whether it's our voice and
just vibration and energy and frequency
in general it's real beautiful well you
want to talk a little bit right here at
the end about your school and what you
got going on we wrote a it's a two year
program and it's it's basically I've run
a pay pretty much I went to music school
I went to four years of university and I
pretty much teach them everything that
they would learn at a university is
musically and what we we we have every
Friday night we have a meeting that we
do worship form and that's
like our recital for what we've been
learning all week you know and because
the I think probably the difference in
our worship school I try to keep it
small it in other words if schools is
there's a lot of practical training goes
down here I mean we really teach them
how to play we teach them how to sing we
teach them how to write music everybody
the whole class everybody writes their
own songs that I don't allow them to
bring other songs in you know if they if
they're going to lead they're gonna lead
from a morning star like a song that one
of our alumni has me or daughter Susie
or alumni have written you know because
I'm trying to create a whole different
way different sound and you know when
you're bringing the traditional worship
sounds are I mean I have to admit they
sound good but their music ly they're
not very tantalizing you know and so so
I I do a half hour lesson with every
student every week and that's where I
work on their compositions with them and
and some of the compositions that are
come getting ready to come out right now
are pretty awesome yeah and and then the
we have a theory class every week where
they learn all the theory and now also I
take all the songs that they're learning
and I explained the theory behind those
songs so that they they learn how to
write their chords they learn how to
write read music it's kind of a it's the
same thing you would learn in the
university it's just done with with
worship in mind you know but by the time
everybody leaves here they they all can
write their own songs they all can play
their instruments way better it's it's
it's not sitting in a classroom
listening to you we don't teach them
about worship we teach them to worship
yeah you know and and I try to teach
them how to
how to worship in the practice room not
way that you get out on the deck you
know and so we have the extended periods
of time I don't know if you can this our
practice room I don't know if you can
see it but I mean it's you know we got a
ham and you know and we got guitars and
we got got both of my Marshalls in here
and just it's just filled with
instruments you know some of them are
actually not not here that it's just a
huge you know it's probably the most
important thing I've ever done you know
trying to get I'm trying to get them to
I'm trying to get them to change their
change the sound of what's going on
right now
you know um I'll be 67 and a couple of
months and you know I don't know you
know I want to start hearing stuff that
pleases me too yeah you know yeah I mean
I don't want him to write like me yeah
and that's not what I'm after I want
them to write like themselves but I want
to give them the tools to do that you
know it's no um this isn't a dig at any
anybody but like when you listening to
Christian radio Christian music I think
you know I say his name you know Jeremy
camp knows how to write a good worship
song right and he but he's been doing it
for maybe 20 years now where he's just
got this this formula they all kind of
sound a little bit the same and it's
like okay I learned how to do it and I'm
just gonna keep repeating almost the
same song change the lyrics up here a
little bit and it just works for him and
so is that kind of what you're saying
just like the company like quit doing
what everybody else is doing
especially especially if we're like able
to so-called access the courts of heaven
hear directly from God and he's just
gonna write I wish it we should I really
do think in the kingdom we should be
ahead of the secular
realms it's not like trying to copy what
they're doing but we're able to kind of
take a new sound bring it to the table
and get
them to copy it and I've actually seen
that in the hardcore Christian metal
scene there was some some bands that got
really big in the mid-2000s and the
hardcore Christian metal and and all the
secular bands were stealing from them
they were Norma Jean under oath some of
those bigger bands as I Lay Dying
Christian bands and the secular guys
were copying them that actually happened
in the mid-2000s and so I really feel
like that's how we're supposed to be
able to do this to bring something new
to the table to make them like um hey
let's let's try that versus the other
way around I know it can work both ways
but do you feel like that that we're
able to do that - well we don't just
have to sort keep I'm saying
regurgitating what's working or whatever
right well the problem that you have in
in the worship movement or whatever you
want to call it today is it can be
financially motivated you know so nobody
wants to brought the boat yeah let's go
back there you know what I'm saying
and so consonance worship yeah you know
because you're afraid I mean you got
okay you have all these yeah probably a
million churches all playing the same
songs yeah why because they're easy yeah
you know and because you know they
listen and they're they're anointed
there's no doubt yeah the songs are
anointed and it's it's become you know
it's like a it's like a song mill you
know coming out you know that and you if
you go if you veer off any from that
thing it's not gonna get played yeah you
know in the regular churches and what
I'm trying to teach these guys is you
know well you know if if money is your
God or if money is important to you
don't do what I'm doing yeah you know
because you know there's not that I mean
I I make pretty good money I could get I
get good royalties and stuff you know
but but it's gone up and down you know I
mean if I you know I look at those songs
at those guys right you know and I go
what a well-crafted song it's a
well-crafted zone however I wouldn't I
personally wouldn't listen to it you
know but you know it kind of I've seen
this I've been through the whole thing
you know yeah I saw
maranatha music come I saw it go I saw
integrity music all good integrity yeah
that's that's where mom I mean that's
where they came from mobile right I like
those guys I don't dance with you know
and stuff I've seen Bethel music I've
seen this stuff you know the Australian
guys the Hillsong you know I've seen
elevation all these guys and they are
not going to rock the boat yeah you know
I guarantee you but after a while people
do get tired of it exactly so you got to
be able to change with the season or
change when God says the chains right
because you find you're doing something
that works the whole thing about
following God following Christ is that
that cloud actually moved you know what
I'm saying we have to be willing to walk
in the spirit is to be able to walk in
the cadence with the Holy Spirit and he
you know here hearing that new song the
new song of the Lord here in that being
able to become kind of move with that
but if it's working like you said they
look if it ain't broke don't fix it so
they're just gonna stay with it the text
makes itself eventually so if the person
doesn't change they either get left
behind because they're still stuck in
that same sound or the church moves on
because they're ready for a new sound
but a lot of times those people are left
in the wake of not wanting to rock the
boat right in in the end so it really
doesn't work out and in the long run you
have to be loud to change yeah I look at
people like Keith green you know okay
well why are people still listening to
him why aren't people still
you know singing his songs I still hear
it you know in young people I'll ask the
people unless they like class I'll say
ok how many of you guys have heard of
Carmen Amy Grant maybe if you you know
how many of you have heard of Keith
green everybody well yeah what's the
difference
you know a musical integrity mm-hmm you
know the guy could play he knew how to
him he could sit down to a piano by
himself and do a concert and blow you
away so he had the spiritual end he had
the musical end going on and you know I
think when you add the spiritual and the
musical and then you're gonna have some
longevity yeah you know and and so a lot
of the people that you're hearing right
now in 20 years you won't hear of them
you know that's he 3 that's the thing
about those I mean 40 years ago yeah
exactly and it still it still has it
still has longevity that's the thing
with the radio tuned like you find these
people working and I guess it applies to
Christian music in a radio too you hear
these songs and they're good for you
know if you want to call it dirt you
know I'm saying 15 minutes of fame that
15 minutes could be a year that 15
minutes could be three months but you
don't remember them like you remember it
because it may omit something to you but
you're not digging up their old material
and like man there was something that
this music transcended time there's so
many singles that come out and they're
they're big for those nine weeks or
whatever but then they just fall back
they become make their quick money this
happens in hip hop happens in pop and
they're just pushed under versus those
people that you can name that you've
been naming we can look at the legends
and people are still listening to their
music and it's their music is timeless
but what about this too because that
we've discussed this a little bit with
those legends some of those people now
we could say you know we could say Bob
Marley we can say Kurt Cobain some
people who brought something different
and changed it and kind of you know put
their stamp on the music industry
something I think they sung from their
soul they accessed that in my night were
able to access the spirit but they
accessed their soul they changed the way
they made music that when you played it
you can feel what they were going
through whatever it was and usually
wasn't to glorify God sometimes it was
right and you could feel that what about
this so those legends if a lot of those
guys died in their prom right and in
that kind of help their destiny sealed
their destiny they got to die at the
pinnacle of their career and but on the
other end we're seeing people now where
your idols will be destroyed your I you
know say your idols fall in the end and
if if they don't die in there prom and
they don't get right with God we're able
to see these people who were like you
know they called Michael Jackson the
King of Pop music the king of rock and
roll if they don't get their life right
if they don't balance stuff we get to
see these leaders fall and then it kind
of diminishes their legacy because we
remember them in in that last state that
happens with hip-hop if the if the
rapper wasn't killed at the height of
their career they end up putting a lot
putting out a lot of music that just
isn't good anymore they weren't able to
change like we're talking about you know
understand have you what would you say
to that to those people with their
legacy or maybe it just ties back into
being able to change and not be stuck
with the music well if I'm talking to
you music say constantly constantly be
learning you know like I I will take I
learn I'll take songs you know I and
I'll just just because I listen to what
they do and I go yeah I really want to
learn how how did he do that
I want to learn that you know it's all
taped like say like Dave Matthews solar
I learned the guitar part to satellite
you know and to learn how to do that and
play at the same time you know just to
learn it you know
I'll take John Mayer song neon you know
because it's just a hard guitar part
you know and so I'm constantly taking
stuff like that and just and and what
ends up happening is that kind of music
it kind of gets him in that I end up
writing a little bit like that you know
same thing with the violin and I'll hear
some smoke of me and I want to I want to
learn that I've transcribed whole solos
by jean-luc Ponty and yeah these
different you know violinists you know
just just just to keep it you have got
to keep expanding yeah otherwise you you
know if I read uh I I discourage all of
my stuff listening to worship music
while there during the school in the
school yeah yeah you know I say you go
listen and I said don't listen to
Marilyn Manson you know but don't mean I
said the reason is I want you to start
writing like your stuff and not like
these people mm-hmm you know I don't
want you to write like me now they they
learn a lot of my songs because my songs
have a lot of chords in it that they'd
never hear they'd never do in a normal
setting you know and then I teach them a
lot of secular songs you know too
because I want I want them to learn
there's more than three or four chords
out there you know and and then how to
put those chords in into effect in so so
that they will have longevity yeah you
know so that there are music you know
when they're my it when they're 66 I'll
be 67 when they're I mean even though
it's it's not the most popular music in
the world I know that you know but it's
it's in the church it's one some of the
most creative you know because it's I'm
just I'm I'm throwing things in all the
time you know from because I'm had my
Paul my hand on the pulse of what's
going on in music in general you know on
the rock scene and megohm Rock scenes
you know and the jazz scene the
bluegrass all that I keep I keep very
aware of what's
you know and so I write with those
styles in mind so I can because they're
not going to hear this in church yeah
you know they won't they won't hear this
stuff you know and they'll never you
know now they may go Alan but I have
heard that all the guys that came
through the worship school which is you
probably know a lot of them yeah you
know really famous at this point you
know if you listen to them to us to this
day I think they're the best worship
leaders out there I mean they're writing
the most creative in the most you know
but it's they've toned way down from
what they've learned here and you have
to kind of kind of combine it I was
right yeah nobody I mean the stuff that
we're learning here's not is it'll never
be mainstream you know but it's kind of
like the people that walk down the
runway you know you know showing off
those clothes nobody would wear those
clothes on the street you know but the
next year you see that style influencing
what's sold in Kmart you know and and
that's what I'm I look at ourselves and
what we're doing here we are here to
influence them we're not here to make
them into our image whatsoever you know
and I'm sure that they will it's going
to really I mean I'm just writing a
number of songs with the students right
now and I mean this one girl she came in
and and we wrote the song and it sounds
like a really cool old nickel creek song
if you know who they are
mm-hmm yes it's kind of like a bluegrass
hip you know it's a really cool sound
and you know so there they are all
writing different styles one of the the
keyboard player you know I listened to
what he was coming up with I said man
have you ever listened to a group called
Chicago he said no you know I said
because you the way you're writing is
just like them you know and he's a young
guy a kid from Mongolia and
and so I made them learned that the
piano part - that you're my inspiration
by Chicago because I wanted to see what
was out there you know I said this is
this is the style you're gravitating
towards anyway so yeah I think longevity
just basically has to do with with keep
learning and keep changing don't don't
you know now if you're James Taylor no
don't change you don't have to change
your style you know stay James Taylor
you know could break you if you change
two months if something that's working
it's working for a reason but there's
gonna be a season where it doesn't work
anymore and you got it you got to be
able to to no win like hey I got to
change this up um let me ask you just a
quick a quick shout out to my wife she
has always said over the years that um
she has no musical bone in her body and
I've always played in bands and did
music and done my recording and all that
kind of stuff but with her when it comes
to music she says she couldn't sing she
had this weird ungodly belief really
that there that there's no way even if
she wanted to she could learn music
tempo Theory nothing like that she just
started playing the iewk and and she's
being consistent she's learning she's
showing up she's practicing every day
and she's getting better and she's kind
of blowing her mind because she's
totally told herself that there was no
way possible that this could happen and
she's starting to sing a little bit and
she's really enjoying it it's blowing
her mind what would be some advice for
her just starting out just learning how
to sing just learning how to play and
kind of combining the two what would you
say if somebody was playing the iewk
just starting out and still kind of
afraid of their voice even a little bit
yeah I think in the beginning is just
fine but we have a real advantage with
the Internet yeah you know just find
some stuff and learn it you know look
what's going on you know and say okay
how do you play this song on the ukulele
put it up go to be most likely gonna
come up yeah it most likely somebody's
already put it on there learn it you
know when I was growing up you know
I had to go to concert if I want to see
live music I had to go to a concert
they had live music on anything you know
when I turned into a teenager they had a
thing called Don Kirshner rock concert
that was the first time they had rock
music on television so if I wanted to go
I had to go to a concert and that's how
I learned to play you know as I'd go and
I'd watch these guys I'd watch Clapton
or I'd watched that The Allman Brothers
were in Jacksonville at that time I'd go
to it and watch them Skynyrd you know
and all these guys from Jacksonville
were playing around and I'd have to
watch what they were doing that's how I
learned you know but you guys the
younger you don't have an excuse anymore
right yeah you got it
so there's no particular website to go
to or I think they can go to
lennard-jones com also okay for the most
part I just used Facebook for the most
part heck yeah it is good that too that
you're actually doing that yeah cuz I've
just heard people like on this way out
they're super spiritual stuff is like
they'll say this you know when it's time
for me to play the Lord's gonna teach me
that I'll just be able to walk up to the
piano and the Spirit will leave me what
play is that kind of weird you know they
kind of heard a number of times and I
say well he never does he never did yeah
I've heard that over the years too so
it's good to use wisdom in all areas so
if you guys look into if that's what you
feel like the Lord's calling you to lead
worship definitely get up with Leonard
Jones and uh he's definitely has a long
list of songs and and other musicians
who were successful right now and
leading the game right now that he's
trained up and doing it so Leonard man I
really appreciate you coming on hanging
out with me I really enjoyed this
conversation brother I'd love to do it
again with you sometime in the future
yeah Arbus good to meet you Thank You
Man
god bless okay god bless you
lennard-jones ladies and gentlemen
Morningstar ministries good stuff great
stuff y'all let me know in the comments
if my stream is cutting in and out I'm
recording this on the back end too just
in case but uh yeah man this dis podcast
man what are the people I've been able
to talk to over the years
it's been insane like man I've been able
to talk to people that I've looked up to
since I was man six seven years old had
conversations with people I have them on
here as guest people who have made a
huge impact on my life that I guess at
the time listening to their music or
watching their work you know this like
that celebrity and that renowned there's
that you feel like you know them because
you've listened to I mean hundreds of
hours of their material lennard-jones
definitely one of them busy bone from
bone thugs-n-harmony as I was a kid was
definitely one of them
and you Schwab from project 86 I mean
the majority of these people man I've
just reached out to them and at
different seasons that I'm in and God
lines it up I'm able to have these
people on here pick pick their brain and
talk to them and it's like you don't
understand like even in our discord I
give a shout out our discord community
those of you who want to join the link
is in the description but we've been
listening to a lot of Morningstar here
lately and it's really good stuff and
it's something about that music that has
longevity and like pushed the envelope
something different it wasn't just what
was popular at the time trust me like it
wasn't for everybody
I had like he's saying like you wouldn't
hear their music on the radio I have my
friends who couldn't stand them they
couldn't stand their music but for those
who were wanting to get into the spirit
and go deep with God in the spirit realm
like their music was a catalyst to that
and I I want my music to do that I want
my music I want to be able to put my
music on for people in it and then be
able to get alone with God or ride in
their car and be taken to another place
as you're listening
Morningstar ministries and and Leonard
Jones and all those names he mentioned
that he's worked with over the years
I've definitely been a part of that in
my life
again with when I was the Lord was
showing me what it meant to being to be
prophetic in these giftings and
abilities it was accompanied by
Morningstar ministries by the work of
well the the preaching the teaching the
writings of Rick Joyner and the worship
of Leonard Jones and Don Potter and some
of those guys and it was just beautiful
just a whole essence for me what it how
much it meant to me and I'm doing what
I'm doing which excuse me Wow I'm doing
what I'm doing today because of those
guys that's the beauty and there's a lot
of people strategically that's been
placed in my life and I'm like they have
shaped me they've imparted something
even knowingly or unknowingly that I
shaped the way I approach music or
approach life or approach spirituality
and yeah man it was an honor to speak
with him um good stuff I want to uh I'm
sorry I'm getting over this cold guys my
throat so um I want to play you guys a
snippet of this video here I'm gonna
play the video and you in in those
listening you can listen to the audio
end both will do justice you can listen
to it but um there was a guy listening
to the true seeker podcasts I guess he
was into some esoteric deeper
understanding stuff and but he's also a
Christian too he listened to the
interview that I did with JD Ramsey who
is a tent revival Asst preacher
evangelist he he's doing the old school
tent revival setting up a big tent in
the middle of the country preaching
people come there saved and delivered
and healed really cool guy we did an
episode on and I've been working with
this guy for some years I've done his
website helped did his logos and stuff
like that so I've been working with him
for some years had him on as a guest
that we talked about seeking God in the
secret chambers of prayer and and really
where all spiritual authority and
spiritual power comes from is in those
secret
with God will you draw away and which is
the same thing we was talking about
today Leonard Jones says his most
powerful times was God isn't on stage
with thousands of people it's when he
goes in his prayer room and shuts the
door and just gets along with God those
encounters that he's had there has
changed his life the same for me but
that's what we talked about on the
interview with JD Ramsey if you haven't
heard that one be sure to go back and
listen it was really good but this guy
was listening and he got convicted
I guess because he had not been in his
prayer chamber you hadn't been going to
that secret place with God you kind of
this put sometimes you can get caught up
and just seeking knowledge seeking
understanding and you kind of get away
from the experience or knowledge of God
of just being with God right you learned
about God and in theories in the
universe and things like that versus
just going to meet with God yourself and
that's the privilege that we all have
through Christ that were able to kind of
go boldly to the throne room of God
through Christ and what he's done for us
and so Christ takes that that veil or
that wallet that separates us that Gulf
that separates us between from God and
he bridged the gap that we don't have to
have the priest we don't have to have
these systems in place and all of this
kind of weird stuff essentially why
people aren't going to church right now
because of all that weird stuff in
between you and God like you have to go
you have to jump through these hoops and
pretend to be someone you're not and
pretend you don't like things or pretend
like you don't listen to the true seeker
podcast you know whatever the church
would tell you Jesus busted that junk
open and that's the Liberty that's in
Christ and the freedom we talked about
that the guy felt convicted to return to
his first love as the scripture says to
return through prayer and he found him
convicted but he felt encouraged and he
got closer to God the guy said that he
lived about two hours away from where JT
Ramsey was preaching so he thought to
himself why don't I go check him out so
he drove he loaded him and his family up
two hours and drove two hours
and they went to the the meeting and
they had an encounter with God he
brought his son with them who's been
experiencing some some issues and they
got a miracle so I'm just gonna play
this it's about six minutes or so I
believe but I want you guys to be
encouraged and then I'll come back and
do a little bit of commentary but I'm
gonna go ahead and play this and I want
you guys just to listen I'm gonna let JD
to tell you because this is JD kind of
talking about that whole experience
during his uh his preaching out last
week so uh let's see all right here I go
let me know what's at if you can hear
that I can go in an area rent a place to
probably stay there I'm inhibited
unhindered for quite a long time it's
not like I'm trying to involve a
physician go and trust me first thing
I'm asking those guys when I think
michael roberts nate allen all those
guys how they ever kept their stoop so
clean you see them they're always
impeccably dressed I'm just I don't know
it may not you figure that out and they
stay clean it's just a lot of hard work
but you know the fruit of its always
work the things that happen out here
I've seen so many things happen people
think you got to get on a jet plane go
to four country to see some of this
stuff happen in the United States what
we see happen underneath these hands
powerful things and so on just because
you're in the middle of nowheres Ville
USA doesn't mean something we've scored
there it can't happen in there
just make your mind up I've already got
my mind made up I'm reading this
testimony I got last night but Jim only
came down this is incredible
message me this today this is awesome
how many over here last night it's good
wasn't it
got this food and we let him do it
and this gentleman here he's from st.
Louis he found out about the meeting but
listen to on the podcast I was on with
another Chris rap artist out of Mobile
Alabama I was on the program here a
couple of weeks ago and he was
interviewing me just talking to me about
my wife and encounters with God the
supernatural things and I guess podcast
pretty well received know fairly broad
audience a lot of response back from it
so provoke some people but this got our
the podcast he's a Christian rapper when
he lifts up towards Santos I think over
me Madison is that my Granite City
that's where he stays it messaged me and
asked what the week was going on instead
he probably come down and and anyway
this is what happened showed up last
night this is what I'm talking about
what faith and expectation does all
right it just puts a pool on God and I
spent most of the time on comes talking
last night if you really got her crux of
what I was talking about I was talking
about the power of hunger spiritual
hunger now most people just don't have
any that's why they never get any
thinking god they're really not that
hungry
they weren't the Lord and feed over you
can't fake it out and I read you a book
you're not hungry I could tell about him
preach I preached all kinds of nights
all over the United States and I don't
when people are hungry knowing people or
not I'm not a make them hungry so it's
not a bad night for me but I mean it's a
shame I got to make people hungry my god
I gotta go out here make these folks
hungry
make more God so this is the boring
night out here tonight
Mambo get blasted one way or the other
but you gonna come along with or not but
but basically I mean everything I said
last night all went back to the ability
and hunger how it puts a hold on God
real simple stuff you don't ever hear
anything about the screech bit more
because nobody's encountering God they
don't know anything about it it's the
truth all right I mean I'm not saying
that there's no people that are counting
Lord but people that understand humility
for the Lord and I'm a big guy and I'm a
loud guy and I'm a man's man but behind
closed doors I'm here and I'm broke you
know I got a contrite spirit you're not
getting ready for my meeting so let's go
still on before crimes so what I do
it's my strategy right there you all
know my secret that's it
I go sit down on the floor and I found
it's awesome it works out great I get
real woke up over people on your row
broke up over their situations to come
out here we got blasted places what's
that well the forum look you can do this
all right you know that people say you
know I'm not going anywhere with the
Lord I'll say well well have you tried
tears yeah
it's just something about it I was in
there asking him for some money for a
couple puppies the other day I was
bawling about it too because like a
little kid my monocle give me couple
puppies dinner I want some expensive
dogs I wanted to put the money high use
foundation was missing dollars go with
my dad he asked me for a puppet he's a
good daddy I know that might seem
shallow to you but I'm pulling all his
buddies
I want some nice puppies so I'll just go
cry about it that's just the stuff that
happened by closed doors of my house but
this is the power of hunger this is what
it would be hunger and humility a lot of
times people want to get a miracle for
God but they can't even sit through 15
minutes of the service let me know I
hope your attention spans a little bit
longer than that and then she'd give God
will get more time than that we just
want to get in and get out and people
don't understand you know you don't
understand what's going on with people's
lives in here tonight just the different
circumstances in the situation something
if you can pull back the veil and see
everything that's going on how desperate
people actually are and how desperately
they need an intervention from God
that's what we're doing out here I mean
we're dealing with life and death issues
with people we really are I mean I did
what people like Matt that's becoming
out here he's not here tonight he's
gonna go home kill himself that night he
came out here got delivered now I'd now
he's back on bars marriage is back right
the church about blow up
[Applause]
so this is this is awesome right here
this guy he messaged me yesterday said
what times week stop when I get down
there tell me how I found out about that
this is what he said God really touched
him and his wife last night but I pray
for his son some was about that big and
that's all just woman everywhere crazy
said what's that brother but I just
wanted to testify you prayed for my son
last night he had been having behavioral
issues and he could to concentrate or
even write his name you couldn't even
tell you all the letters just talking
about his son could even tell you the
letters of his name
well since brain we haven't seen a major
difference to him he seems calm and
normal like I can have a conversation
with him he looks at me I die and
dialogues with me when before he could
he wrote his whole day at school and
told us every letter of his name
we're experiencing a miracle in our son
and I give God all the glory thank you
brother for believing with this
agreement this is amazing transformation
with the blood of the cross
this is what we did there's just a lot
of different stuff and just add more so
yesterday we took them to the doctor for
the first time the doctor was already
who's ready put the go on medication the
small notice something was wrong so they
tested them and they were waiting to
give us the results with the doctor in
my wife we're not wanting to put him on
meds I want to put my kid on those kind
of things either
it was tugging at me yesterday to try
them all the way to Carbondale they'll
just expect whatever the Lord had for
him my family glass gonna ask my son if
you wanted to get prayed over I didn't
want to force tonight I wanted him to
decide finally he said yes oh yeah some
kind of form of ADHD and I mean if you
woulda saw a little boy alive he'll know
was talking about if you were here last
we serve a mighty God well but if you
want something from April desperate Wow
excuse me again Wow
so the guy went out there and seen JD
felt led of the Lord to go took his son
with him his son was suffering from some
ailment some kind of ADHD or whatever
and he said that JD was saying his eyes
we just kept moving all over the place
he said he couldn't hold a conversation
with the son he couldn't spell his name
he couldn't write his name just because
he couldn't hold a thought and it was
just hard to kind of get through to his
son they took him up there in faith
drove two hours got there in faith went
up for prayer JD prayed for the family
and I'm assuming they fell out under the
power of God is what he said God touched
him took the boy back to get tested
tested and at school and he's been able
to hold conversations with his son he's
given his son understanding they have
control his body self-control like when
you have no control of your mind and no
control of your thoughts and no control
over your eyes and things like that
the Holy Spirit comes to give us
self-control and he imparted that to
that that's a miracle he got it is that
being moved through desperation and
hunger and wanting it so much so that he
drove two hours I mean and he got got
what he came for his son got touched by
God I still believe in miracles I really
do it's beautiful and I'm just I'm
thankful that God would would do that
God would use me or use this podcast or
this platform strategically and I'm this
is with intention like every guest is on
here for a reason like I said there's
people who did not like that episode it
was a very churchy episode it was very
we use a lot of Christianese most people
don't understand that but we talked
about tried to make it more plain for
everybody
Universal God is a universal term in
general when we talk about God we're
talking about God getting alone with God
the power of God moving at the Holy
Spirit it's not for everybody some
people may not even listen to that
podcast but this guy listen to that
episode listening to the true seeker
podcast listen to it stepped out in
faith drove two hours to go see JD
Ramsay his son got rocked by the Holy
Spirit and got healed that is God
strategically using
this podcast me and I love it
this isn't a one-time deal I get these
messages all the time and they used to
blow me away when I just get them so
much now I love it I just I just brag on
God every time I don't take it for
granted but I just brag on God and I
thank God it's always something it's
always hey I heard you through this or I
heard you through that or I looked up
Jordan Maxwell and and here you are
praying for me when you prayed when you
prayed at the end of the Jordan Maxwell
interview I felt god I started to cry
when you started praying and I wanted to
know what you know and I wanted to give
my life to the god you serve I get those
messages this is this is the strategy
every move is a calculated step and it's
awesome when you get to work with God
when when like we're talking about going
into the secret chambers getting God's
heart getting that vision and making it
manifest okay God how can you use me
being led by the spirits being able to
move in the spirit walking in the spirit
the word is Caruso in the Greek as to
walk in the spirit
it's a cadence left right left right
when you go left I go left when you go
right I'll go right when you don't move
I'm not moving right you know Bible says
that those who are led by the Spirit of
God are the sons of God sons and
daughters of God you got to be led by
the Spirit whatsoever is not done of
faith to sin without without faith you
cannot please God it takes stepping out
in faith and being able to be obedient
to the voice and to the wind of the Holy
Spirit not the winds of the air and the
doctrines and all of the weird stuff
that's out there to get you off track I
state counterfeit but the wind of the
Holy Spirit the breath of the Holy
Spirit to be able to move wherever he's
going and to do whatever he's doing
strategically strategic
whatever it may be whatever it is that
God is doing in your life and you want
to be you won't you want that to happen
for you
I believe this power in prayer and I'm
gonna pray for you and if you want God
to use you you're saying God use me
you're seeking your search and you're
trying to do everything you know to do
nothing's working you kind of reach a
dead end you kind of hit a brick wall
but you want God to use you I'm gonna
pray for you that God will strategically
use you did you would be in the right
place at the right time in the right
season and wherever you are you just be
conscious that God is looking to use you
can use you and wants to use you that's
what we got to understand all three of
those he can use us and he wants to use
us he's looking to use this right so I'm
gonna pray that for you
it's so beautiful that everything you do
you understand the sovereignty of God
and no matter where you are I don't care
where you are in life the good the bad
the ugly God is in it all he's there to
be able to see his hand to be able to
understand his move and move with that
to be able to be strategically used by
God I'm gonna pray for you guys and I'm
gonna end out this uh episode get
Heavenly Father we just thank you for
this moment for this opportunity for the
breath that we're breathing thank you
for a heartbeat that we are alive that
we can claim ourselves on the earth that
we exist and it's in you and through you
that we live move and we have our being
we just give you thanks and praise right
now just ask you Lord and whoever needs
it ever wants that touch that they would
just say it's them but they would just
agree with this prayer God that you just
blessed them with an outpouring of your
Holy Spirit to stir up the things of God
that is within them the things that
you've placed within them that you're
not doubting it over them you're not
gonna take it away that the promises of
God are yes and amen and that you will
complete that beautiful work in which
you've started with in my friend right
now we
blessum I gotta thank you that you will
just move them strategically to be used
in this season no matter where they are
to be the hands and feet of God no
matter where they are that you bless
them and that you use them god I pray
that you'll make our enemies our
footstool God that you set upon our feet
up on solid ground that you just take
away the doubt the worry and fear that
would just be in the moment wherever we
are we want to always change the
situation or I just want to take
ourselves outside of the moment God but
in the moment the breath we're alive God
in the moment is all we have and that
will find that you want to use us just
begin to step out in faith do this go
here say that God strategically use us
if that's you just say yes then amen do
you want God to strategically use you
yes amen thank you for your plan thank
you for your gift in Jesus name we pray
I'm in peace and Shalom guys love each
and every one of y'all see you on the
next one
Shalom