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In this episode of the TruthSeekah Podcast TruthSeekah speaks with Lenoard Jones of MorningStar Ministires about the power of music. Leonard Jones and Morningstar Ministries led the sound of the prophetic movement in the mid 90s to the early 2000s. During this time there was not a church that believed in the prophetic ministry that was not fully drenched in MorningStar music and literature from Rick Joyner. I tell people that Bethel Music would not exist today without the influence of Leonard Jones and Morningstar Ministries. Many of the top worship leaders today at Bethel and even other major churches have been through Morningstar’s School of Ministry. In this interview I got to speak to Leonard Jones about being a forerunner in that movement and got to pick his brain about some of his early experiences in the prophetic Ministry. We also talked about the power of music and sound in general. One of the questions that I asked Leonard was did he believe that when David played the harp over King Saul and caused his evil spirits to subside was it because he was a psalmist or was it because of the sheer power of music? We also talked about how we must pursue our giftings and talents with excellence, especially in the realm of music. I’ve heard people say that in the right time the Lord will teach them how to play and give them spiritual songs. Leonard said that it helps to know your instrument so that when you do feel led to explore while playing an instrument that you actually have the know-how to make those sounds come to life. Leonard Jones is teaching the next generation of worship leaders the basics and fundamentals when it comes to playing their instruments. Leonard also talked about their encounter during a conference with the Shekinah Glory of God that showed up in the form of a glory cloud.

Leonard Jones has been involved with worship ministry for 37 years and was professionally trained in the US and Europe. His last 20 years have been spent leading worship at MorningStar Ministries and raising up hundreds of worship leaders and musicians at their school of worship. 

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truth-seeker and/or its affiliates are not responsible for any strange phenomena that may occur during or after listening to this podcast which may include the following heightened senses of awareness psychic abilities UFO sightings alien contact time loss out-of-body experiences ringing in the ears ESP lucid dreaming increasing chronicity astral projection telepathy stronger intuition levitation miraculous healings and/or remote viewing please be advised to asymmetry indecision [Music] [Music] to stand when I don’t but you come [Music] [Music] you are now locked into the to think about you succumb to the paranormal esoteric and all pain spiritual and now your truth seeker yo what’s up ladies and gentlemen I’m your host true seeker this is the true seeker podcast excited and delighted to be with you guys again today got an awesome show planned for you we’re gonna get into some awesome conscious conversation we’re gonna be discussing spirituality and the power of music so it’s gonna be a good discussion today I got a great guest for you guys lined up I want to say a quick thank you before I go any further to everyone who’s been supporting the work the music the ministry the podcasts via patreon you guys allow me to do this from day to day so thank you guys from the bottom of my heart for supporting the vision and coming on board with me give a shout out to some of the newest patrons we have within the last week or so I’m gonna give a shout out to Christopher Reece and his family thank you for coming on for the support Chris has been a friend of mine for some years now so thank you for finally jumping on board with the vision man and helping support it financially Giovanni which is believe this is a the legendary geo it hangs out in discord with us brother thank you for coming on and also thank you to Noah as well for coming on with your support as well man it means the world to me special thank you to the diamond supporters we have Benny weenus family Noah is another one and we also have Adam brink thank you guys from the bottom of my heart if you’d like to support head on over to patreon comback slash true seeker there you get access to my entire discography of work which is 10 plus albums 200 songs you get access to our Thursday night school of the Mystics which is pretty much the hands-on community aspect to what we’re building here with the podcast and learning to hear the voice of God setting up a safe space to walk in the prophetic be able to hear the voice of God and essentially is to be able to speak it out and safe space and we’ve seen a lot of people do this for the first time and lives being changed over the internet with everybody coming together for the school of the mystic so it’s real beautiful and if you want to be a part of that patreon.com backslash truth seeker so with that being said that’s out the way I want to welcome my guest today this is Leonard Jones of Morningstar ministries Leonard welcome to the podcast brother how are you oh man it’s such a blessing to be able to speak with you like I don’t know if you get this all the time but I definitely came up listening to the music you guys were doing at Morningstar in the mid 90s the birth of the prophetic movement in my book I’ve read the final quest and it was accompanied by all the CDs that you guys were putting out and it was when God took me deeper in my own prophetic abilities and the whole gifting was shrouded with Morningstar ministries all the people hanging out with the churches the conferences the school of the prophets and things like that was shrouded in Morningstar ministries and music so you were the soundtrack to really my spiritual awakening and walk with Christ and I’ve encountered the Holy Spirit on so many deep levels through your music so it’s the honor and blessing that to have you on my show and to be able to talk to you also would you say that Morningstar ministries or was kind of the pivotal marking for the prophetic movement like I tell a lot of people I don’t want to hope I’m not facetious by saying this but I say that there wouldn’t really be a Bethel without the early morning star days would you is that safe to say that Bethel came out of Morningstar well I would say a lot of the musicians you know like came to our conferences you know back in the day and so I think we would definitely influence them there’s no doubt I mean I’m John and Brian if that told me that yeah they they were incredibly you know impacted you know and just about everybody that I I’ve got all my friends like Stephanie and Josh Baldwin who came out of our school and just a whole bunch of the people that are with Bethel actually came through our worship school it’s a we definitely have and they have an influence on us and we had in there it’s definitely symbiotic yeah do you think that you guys recaptured like the Davidic style of worship that was kind of lost for a long time do you got you guys think you went back and recaptured that you know I don’t think we really actually had a plan you know it was just kind of it was just one of those things we just loved God we love to worship and and all it all came together at the same time like the very first conference that was a big impact on the whole worship scene in general was the part of David conferences and it was actually just one conference we got four CDs out of that live CDs and I think it was like the perfect storm you know I mean like the intercessors were really starting to arise I take take authority where they needed to and at the same time we had on that the first stage I mean we had pretty famous studio musicians that had just gotten saved or you know had just started doing stuff for the Lord and so you had like the pinnacle of musicianship along with the pinnacle of intercession and then you add a hunger to that you know and and we were just going for it we we had no idea what we were doing we still don’t you know know is we love God you know I love music I love to play music and you know I use it all the time I’m you know to to minister to the Lord with you know I I do it every day that’s a that’s a neat phrase there you that all the time to minister to the Lord and it kind of sets up this this question here what does that mean for you because I feel like there’s a difference when we’re like it’s singing forth truths and prophetic utterances and like declaration verses were singing about God versus singing to God what’s the difference there yeah well well like this morning I was just I was just basically practicing my guitar and singing and but I was directing that towards the Lord you know what I mean I mean this is just it’s just a mind exercise basically you know I just I mean I could I could practice or I can practice like he’s he’s here going you know saying like hey I like that do that again yeah you know and it’s like a second of musical fellowship you know between me and God and it’s really where I get I get my worship tenor in that when I’m leading worship I don’t really get much out of that I’m always going on there’s too much going on you know but but when I’m alone you know in my little practice room and I’m just singing to the Lord you know that’s that’s where I really get to connect yeah that’s awesome so singing to the Lord I mean let me ask you about this because one understanding music one just understanding sound and stuff then and this is like a personal question that I had when it comes to date like King David being a psalmist and we see like the story where King David was playing before Saul who was troubled by evil spirits and when he played the stringed instrument something happened something shifted and the evil spirit left let me ask you this is this because David was anointed and he was a psalmist and he worshiped the Lord and he understood the power of his music or whatever or is it just understanding the power of music in general that music has the power to bring forth or change the mood or change the atmosphere and anyone could do it or was it specifically that he understood that he was worshipping God with with his instruments or something like that well I think it’s a little bit of both you know I mean like obviously in the secular world they have musical music therapy mm-hmm you know and it really works you know and those people might or might not be Christian you know you never know with with my my stuff I’ve I’ve I’ve had hundreds of testimonies where people were they would just stick on like I have these for violin CDs it’s just instrumental worship you know we just just play out of my heart you know to the Lord and so many people I’m a Heidi Baker told me that’s she she has those on like on rotation at her other place you know and I’ve had lots of people say the same thing Lance wall now told me that he likes to go running with my with that stuff you know so there’s something about you know just music in itself it’s it definitely has the power I mean you can’t you can’t go here you know mussorgsky Symphony or you know Sibelius Violin Concerto and not be moved yeah you know and and that was some of those guys may be pushing they may not be you know but the music itself definitely has something to it I think that when you add a heart for God yeah I think it gives it a little extra punch and and I’ve had there’s a kid that came up in one of my conferences and he said and he was like he was bald and there was a kid you know and he goes my parents brought me your song oh yeah the long version it’s about 18 minutes we just listened to it in our disk or Tet yeah and he said he said I had it on continual rotation and I’ve been going through I’ve got he called the bone cancer and he said my last scan I was due to die my last game is I’m totally cancer-free you know and he he attributed having that song playing 24 hours a day that one song just repeating yeah over and over again and that’s that particular song it was a mixture of so many things there were things that we did in the studio there was things that we did live and we mixed and matched you know to but you if you listen to it you can’t deny when the when the Spirit takes over and Ricky Skaggs jumps up on the stage and grabs my mandolin or violent I think I was doing mentally and just something happened over and over again that whole conference it was it was remarkable you know that that so the music itself has something there’s but there’s also something about excellence that people lose they when you don’t you might be able to have the great spirit you know and a good heart and all that kind of stuff you know but when you’re really great on your instrument you can go anywhere the Lord tells you to go yeah you know that’s kind of the difference in what we did and what the rest of the church was doing at the time because we came into those sessions with but pretty much great musicianship you know everybody you know if we’re in saves some of the changes to e-flat everybody goes there on it you know you didn’t have to have that whisper Michael and we’re going to eat you know because everybody has perfect catch everybody knew exactly where we’re going so that’s why there was prophetic moments with last 20 minutes yeah you know rather than you know like the Kevin Kross thing that he did with us of the praise the Lord on my soul that actually was about 45 minutes long you know and it was pretty awesome but when me and Don Potter were mixing it we had to cut it I guess we could have made one album out of that well I think we cut it down to 18 minutes yeah you know but that was a prime example of everybody knowing what to do because they were so well-versed on their instrument they could hear and listen so you’re listening to yourself you’re listening to from heaven you’re listening to your fellow musicians and it’s this whole intertwining thing that happens and that’s what I call prophetic you know sound and prophetic music because part of it is part of its God part of its you you know it’s it’s you it’s it’s just as mixed it’s it’s awesome I love it in to be honest with buddy it doesn’t work with untrained musicians they really have to know what you’re doing yeah it’s like they want to go there but they can’t you know you know excuse me thinking about um a psalmist right we’re talking about people just grabbing the instrument playing there are certain people that when they grab the instrument and this is the people that I personally call Osama’s when they pick up a guitar violin whatever that stringed instrument is and they start playing it and you immediately feel the power of God just they don’t even have to open their mouth or anything they can hit two or three notes mm presence of God there that atmosphere changes they understand what kind of what’s going on I think that’s a psalmist as well so you have people who can do that just just about playing the instruments and it almost seems like the instrument is a conductor or a conduit for what you’re going through whether it’s rage and anger and hatred like it can come out through your music you can come out as you play that energy gets gets amplified almost or project it or if you’re if you’re someone who’s been fasting you’re just desiring God and going through you know I’m saying deeper levels with God and you’ve been alone and you going through that process and you get and you start playing the guitar that comes out too and it changed that has a power over the atmosphere is that kind of what happens like did like the instruments whatever they may be are like a projected almost acts as a projector of what your what type of intention you want to push out yet yeah what’s your whatever you’re feeling is is definitely going to come out in your instrument I yesterday I was at John Mark McMillan’s church I was playing violin and a viola and a cello just picking a step and there was a lot of things going on you know I couldn’t hear extremely well you know so I had to what I had to do was really just listen for something first you know I I don’t like I try not to overplay I was I was playing on a couple of CDs with Jason up in one time and I saw the video and I’m just playing all the time I’m just like just whatever you know and when I heard the CDs I could hardly have every once in a while I could hear the violin so they just kept pulling me down when I when I was over playing so and I’ve gotten to the point where I wait until I hear something in my head you know when I hear it okay well that add to the music if it will add then I play what I hear in my head and now that thing that was in my head that could come from me it also could come from God you know who knows all I know is when people people come up afterwards and they so say my god when you started playing do that violin something happened inside of me yeah I had that tendency to think those melodies that I would get or the little whatever I get came from God yeah at that time because I mean I’m not that really of a great violinist I’m I but I can play pretty much whatever I can hear in my head I can play it as soon as I hear it I know where this notes are and that takes a lot of your training you know so you I’m mixing those things back and forth I’m mixing what I’m hearing from God with my ear training with listening to things I think the results are okay does it really touch people you know does it really get passed you know I mean when people walk into Church and they get into a worship thing their spirit usually is already open you know their soul usually is not you know their soul which is their emotions their the you know the the feelings that you get you know when you’re in worship you know a lot of times you know you walk in you know your spirit you’ll you’ll sing the words but your soul doesn’t get touched you know and so my my ideas it is like if you really want to get a touch of somebody’s soul you you you can’t just place them the spirit stuff you’ve got to play off of your soul – yeah you know and so when I play out of my soul and and and my spirit which is they’re very intertwined you know it’s then that’s when I noticed a real difference whereas if I just if I just played a solo I see nothing you know or here you know but if I just play something out of my heart not in my soul all of a sudden people had their hands appraised you know because they know they’re theirs they know that’s different you know and and I believe secular people can hit the same thing you know I mean I I watch concerts all the time I i’ll see these concerts by you know like Humphries McGee or something like that you know and you can tell they think they’re playing a song that planes all of a sudden they get into this it’s it’s like almost a prophetic groove and I don’t know exactly how to explain it and you look at the audience and everybody has their hands raised yeah because everybody knows okay that’s supernatural because they don’t know what they’re doing they don’t you know nobody knows what’s going on up there you know that Suns something just took over now whether or not that was God well who knows but something takes over when you know when you start when you get out of the black note you know on the page you know and start playing out of the white note that’s inside of you you know it’s it really makes a big difference you think you think that that was something that the prophets understood as well because like we see in the scriptures that there was a school of the prophets and there was this awesome scripture that says that they come walking down the hill holding all their instruments like they all have all these instruments or whatever and they and and they you know I’m saying they were prophets they understood that the thing that’s key they understood the power of music and the power of worship and vibration and energy and all that kind of stuff I think they did but I think it was just by accident that they found that out you know I mean I like King David you know he just decided you know you know I’m gonna build I’m gonna build this tabernacle I’m gonna hire all these musicians you know and and I’m gonna get the very best of the best and I’m gonna pay him you know what they’re due and but he but when that happened all of a sudden the glory of the Lord came into the house and the priests couldn’t even stand a minister now I don’t think David knew or Solomon knew that was going to happen you know I think they were just doing it because but I’m just gonna do this for the glory of God you know but they didn’t realize that God was actually touched by that music you know and when he when he was touched that’s when the cloud came in that’s when the people couldn’t they couldn’t stand the minister when I had to come the conference I was telling you about the last day of the conference we did a song called I want to hold your hand by the Beatles because this is a long time ago and we had totally run out of Christian songs you had nothing else we then we knew nothing else if we were gonna have to start repeating or something side I just took the Beatles song I want to hold your hand and man the power of God came in the room a cloud appeared on the stage which we had we didn’t have smoke machines back then I mean this is a real glory cloud yeah showed up on the stage stayed for like 20 seconds or 30 seconds Gary lon the bass player that was playing on the session on that day he was what’s that I said well I think that’s the glory Club you’ve always heard about in the Bible and so I’m looking out towards the audience the audience is freaking out everybody’s freaking out I’m looking through this cloud you know it’s not smoke because it looked like little particles of water or something you know and there’s like a mist but it wasn’t it wasn’t a smoke and when it dissipated it dissipated it went like this and just like disappeared like in about three or four seconds huh we had that on video and it was just you know but here’s my my take on it was God started to come into the room his manifest presence and I believe that the you know you might call heaven a parallel universe I don’t know whatever I believe it broke through the veil for a second you know and and I believe that’s what that’s when the atmosphere reacted to that power you know the power of God came in a cloud that I’ve never seen since never saw before heard about it but I’ve never seen one like this you know I’ve seen some things at other places you know and I go I don’t know you know that could be you know that could be you know just like you know burnt out or something you know but this was real power of God you know and it was done by music you know god it affected God to the point he couldn’t he couldn’t do anything else but come into the room what about smell have you ever had those encounters we’ve been in worship or been praising and you’ll fit you’ll smell a sweet aroma maybe flowers or honey have y’all had those encounters as well I’ve heard of other people I don’t I’ve never had it I’ve you know like I said my my best times of worship are you know on my on my own by myself on a rock in the woods somewhere yeah you know that that kind of thing and I don’t know there’s those special manifestations you know I believe I totally believe God does them you know the problem you know the thing is he one person may smell it and the other person may not smell it it’s because that that person needed to smell that you know now this this particular night when and the cloud showed up everybody thought yeah you know and so there was no mistaken and me and Don Potter mixed the song and put it on a one of our tour CDs the worship CD and when the cloud showed up we we only had something like that tape when all the vu meters when when that happened the cloud showed up all of emitters 24mm go like this oh yeah Wow up to the top now that’s impossible you know because there’s certain mics with different EQ different eq’s different levels all of them go like this you know and you can hear it on the CD you hear this this rumbling kind of thing like I don’t know like Raiders of the Lost Ark or something you know I mean it was real you know you could see it on the 24 tracks we couldn’t get it off we couldn’t figure out what it was and so yep no that’s awesome yeah now I remember that man just not doing it you can feel it so is so weird how you’re able to capture that stuff on CD right or on the audio files just like you know we would be you know having our own prayer meetings at home listening to y’all’s music and we’d listen to the crowd and listen to this shift in the spirit and we’d be able to be almost translated transported there with you guys a couple years after that was taped right or filmed if we’re watching it on video or whatever the case was and we’d be able to experience that with you that’s the beautiful thing about it is that there is no such thing as time right that we can you know especially with God he said I mean he’s the guy who kind of you know those are sins as far as the east to the west and I understand that is being he’s able to go back in time and just erase it like it never happened you know I’m saying that’s what he’s able to do so so beautiful when we get to experience his glory and that and that and that way manifested in our lives or in a group effort it’s so beautiful um so let me ask you about this cuz like there’s this understanding now we’ve kind of been studying it in here and some people talk about it a little bit and I’ve just tried it in my own life and maybe it goes back to just understanding the power of music and understanding what you know being a psalmist is or having that intention before you go into worship maybe but people are like having these encounters like you’re saying you go into your own you know personal prayer closet with the Lord you have this static encounter he shows up he loves on you and you say you know what I’m gonna bring this encounter now that I’ve experienced this that when I do go into a corporate environment I can tap into that place and bring you guys with me because I’ve experienced that almost like stepping into a portal or vortex whatever you want to put cool names on it or whatever do you think that that’s possible when you when you go into worship and should you do that I think it’s possible again it relies on the how well-trained the other musicians are because I can do it myself that’s one of the reasons I can do it you know I can I can do anything I hear I don’t do now if I go in like I I lead the Friday night meetings here at Morningstar and I use students and a lot of them are super talented but they’re not super experienced and neither are they super well-trained yet I what I do in my worship school is I mean we you know we really I put them through the wringer you know I make them learn how to read music I make them learn how to hear note site they learn all their music theory they you know so that when they get in those situations and they know what to do they know when those chords changed what those chords are they and so it doesn’t happen very often excuse me with untrained musicians you know I mean it can you know but it’s not gonna it’s not gonna travel far and wide like art like those CDs that you were talking about I mean the harmonica player you know I mean he he played with Def Leppard and he played with Larry Carlton and all these really famous you know folks the the other percussionist was like with michael w smith if you know Don Potter was with Chuck Mangione with what’s-her-name oh the judge you know Susie was with you know you know all these people were very famous studio musicians you know and very well-versed and they do exactly as soon as those courts hit they knew exactly what to do unexperienced musicians don’t know what to do you know and there’s a direct correlation in how deep that you can go in the spirit by how well you were trained in the natural and I know you people won’t you know you know it’s you know will negate that well I can tell you where I’ve gone yeah in the spirit with musicians like that and I know and I can listen to where they’ve gone and it’s nowhere near the that kind of I think I think that that principle kind of sets up the next question because if that’s true then it must be universal for even your theology like how deep you know God allows you to see how deep you want to go with him in worship in experience and we’ve seen a lot of people who may have been in a prophetic movement it’s stuff like that and seeing God move and do miracles and signs and wonders and all of these really cool things and then they get with another sect of Christianity that says you know what that’s that stuff y’all words into isn’t biblical it’s not of God that wasn’t God who did it their understanding changes they don’t believe that anymore and then now their doctrine and theology doesn’t allow them to go that that deep in the spirit anymore because they’re under this I wanted on paper type deal show me on paper don’t it’s not about experiences your feelings can deceive you you know all of these weird things that come along with it so it kind of lines up what you’re saying that what you’ve learned on the instrument how much knowledge understanding you’ve done there it allows you to go deeper and essentially what you I think with your doctrine and theology heaven either can be an open gate or a closed gate or limiter on on um seeing the things that you see in the spirit as well have you seen that I mean I’ve spent people who come and go all through that’s part of part of the game as people coming and going throughout our lives and especially with religion and spirituality like one little difference of opinion you won’t hear somebody hear from somebody again sometimes you know and it’s kind of hard but with y’all’s movement and stuff man have you seen that a lot where people’s theologies will change in one minute they’re there they’re leading they’re in ministry with you then the next the next they’re slandering and telling people to stay away from you and things like that because of theology have you seen that I think it depends where let me I had a thought but I just can’t quite get it the did they believe it in the first place you know what I mean like in other words when I got saved people were witnessing to me I started I started going to this church for like six months before I got saved and I sat through Alice’s Assembly of God Church so there was an altar call every Sunday yeah you know and and so I sat through like six months of altar calls because I to be honest I just didn’t want to be talked into something you know and so how I met the Lord was I was reading the Bible I was studying I was trying to figure out what case is true if it’s true I’m gonna fall if it’s not I want to go on with my life and I’m sitting in McDonald’s on Third Street in Jacksonville Florida reading the Bible and all of a sudden it’s like my mind I just flipped over and I and I thought God this is true what I’m reading is the truth Jesus really did this and I’ve always said this you know nobody talked me into it so nobody can talk me out of yeah that’s good you know and I look at I saw the things that we’re going on you know that people were saying this you know the these outbreaks and all this kind of stuff you know and then a lot of those people still aren’t aren’t following the Lord anymore and they’re off you know doing whatever they want to do and I look at it I go okay you really didn’t believe that in the first place you were just you were kind of parroting what you thought people wanted you to say and you were you know it’s because if you believe it and if it came to you in the river nobody can take that from you did you know and so I think that there’s just a few things that I’ve held on to you know I hold on to you you know you know the the Lord Himself you know and that he was you know I and I state this all the time you know I don’t know hold on I still say I don’t know a lot about you’ve got I know I know you’re good I can tell that you’re good I know that you know I know that Jesus is the Son of God I mean there’s nothing you can do did I ever take that out of me I know that he’s the son of God I know that he was born of a virgin you know I know that he died I know that he was resurrected I know that he sits at the right hand of God you know that nobody can ever take that away because no because you know and of course I’d heard that but when he showed me that it was true then you can’t take that away from yeah you know and and there’s a big I don’t know if you I don’t know what’s like in movie you’re in Alabama in Mobile huh but I mean I go to a lot of churches around the world you know and there’s a lot of people just not going to church anymore yeah you know and I mean good people that and but a lot of you still love the Lord yeah a lot of Moore’s too you know watching videos reading the Bible witnessing and stuff but they’re just I heard of the game yeah you know and I understand it you know I every time I do a meeting somewhere I always I always ask myself the question why why do we do this you know what why are we here what’s what’s what is the use of what we’re doing you know and it always to me always rolls back to my relationship with God not my relationship to the church not my relationship to the truth my relationship with God and I just enjoy him you know I enjoy playing my guitar to him I enjoy playing my violin or piano or mandolin or sitar or whatever I’m playing I enjoyed that you know and he seems to enjoy it too you know and so and I don’t know the answer and I don’t know what the answer is that it’s gonna get people back into church you know I do know that church as it is right now is not working for the next generation for the most part now there’s a few hotspots but I’m looking at awful yeah definitely hotspot yeah yeah but I’m looking at most places I’m going yeah you know okay the music is great the preaching is great the building is great why is it this place packed out with hungry young people you know now I see it somewhere what places I was just in Barney a couple of months ago and the little church was just packed to the rim yeah you know these people and and this isn’t a country it was a pretty much a Muslim country and this is a Christian Church but they still had them guys on one side and the girls on the other side you know of the church you know I mean there was there was two seating sections but as soon as the worship started they bomb the whole church came forward yeah and it was all intermingled at that point dropped out for a second my internet we’re good though okay anyway the so that’s my my answer is I don’t know the answer on how to get them back in to the church but I’m not so sure it’s not God to be honest Wow yeah because sometimes God has to let something like a system die in order to create a new system because they he can’t he can’t take that old wineskin and do what he wants to do and there’s just weird resentment that’s there as well for those like from the church leaders yeah for those who quit going and they’re like shaking their finger or you know you always say well they’re not walking with the Lord anymore and there’s this thing I’ve been finding now just to let people know that look just because you don’t go to a church it doesn’t mean that you’re not part of the church and that God hasn’t given up on you and God you know still loves you and still can use you and I’ve just been you know singing that from you know this podcast and reaching people who are looking into other things like they’re gone into different movements or they might be gone into New Age or witchcraft whatever the cases but there they still love the Lord but they just aren’t fulfilled in church because of their different you know rules and regulations and and weird theologies that have the die off you know with with time and stuff too and it’s like they love God but they can’t keep their mouth shut because there’s just so many weird things that we’ve put up with over the years that people now they’re not having it you know and just so cuz that there is still a hunger there for people people still love God and they’re gonna bring God with them and whatever wherever they are they’re doing a pretty good job at it man but it’s just to let them know that you’re not alone right right I’m dealing with that a lot so it’s really cool just I mean obviously that that one phrase you’re not alone like for me is that it’s done wonders for people just letting them know and like it’s just so easy and I get so many messages wow I thought that this was you know my pastor said this or so-and-so said this because I’m not this and say look God God hasn’t given up on you just because you have you think differently you act differently you worship differently whatever the case is like you’re still part of the kingdom and just seeing life come back to people man it’s beautiful but there is still a hunger there but it’s just like and people are more they’re more open to talk about God right now than any time I’ve ever seen it yeah part of me was thinking it it has it may have something to do with social media like with the internet in information everything’s there at your fingertips and you know it’s like it’s almost like it takes the place of that need of Jesus cuz whatever you need is there but it’s never gone it’s never gonna like you know I’m saying deep down it’s never gonna replace that void so it’s always there but maybe because we’re changing as a society as a people as humans really the way we interact with technology it’s changing our genetic makeup our all this stuff is changing but it’s never gonna take that that void away is never going to so it’s really strange to see with the generation coming up under us their need and how they are reacting when do they get there is it at 14 is it at 12 is it when they reach puberty is when they have an encounter when is it so it’s very interesting to watch the next generation come up and say when is the key moment that we need to you know how do we uh you know present the gospel in a way that’s appealing the gospel is appealing and not water it down but how do we present it to them where they’re gonna get it you know right it’s really interesting but back to the subject of music let me ask you about this people are you always here you know Satan was the worship leader in heaven and I don’t know if that is sound theology I know I’ve heard it for years what do you think about that because when people are talking about the power of music and music travels through the air and Satan’s over the Prince of the air and things like that I always hear these little one-liners when it comes to be careful about the music you listen to even in churches like there’s a lot of churches that don’t even let you play drums or the tambourines or symbols and things like that what do you what do you feel when it comes to the devil being over music yeah I’m with you yeah I never believed it I’ve read those scriptures and I’m thinking he’s talking about a king I know right come on out yeah he’s just talking about somebody you know and somebody just like but it preached good yeah you know and and and people go who that something new you know it’s like tickling here you know the Bible says that in the last days people are going to be have itching ears you know I’ll tell me something new you know and then and it’s like that’s not even like you said I don’t think it sounds theology whatsoever yeah having said that I think music is again is in the hands of the human soul on the human spirit the antenna and you you can take it either way no you know you can you know and of course I think that the devil can definitely influence people and I think you do have to be careful of what you listen to I let one of my dollars listen to some stuff up you know and I shouldn’t have you know and I was just trying to be open-minded yeah you know and now looking back on it and why did I do that you know and am I one of my reasons was I thought that’s actually the music is really quite good you know and but I really should have I should have stopped it you know so I think if if they’re in your household and you’re over Authority and you hear something and they’re there you know doing something wrong you know spiritually I think you should stop you know you know obviously you can’t I don’t know if it’s so great from the pulpit to say something you know about it you know but if they’re in your household and and somebody could say well the pulpit that is that pastor’s household maybe you know I think it’s just I think everybody has to do that you know whatever they think is you know the best way to do it I I do know that I mean I made the mistake but my friend a friend of mine was running sound for Marilyn Manson and he said man you need to see this show you said is the and my friend is a Christian he’s and he was doing that he was on running sounded for the Ozzfest here here in town so I took our sound man and and one of my keyboard players I said do you guys want to go and and we you know we went and I when he came out on the stage and and berated the Lord and berated and just was just in two minutes I said to the guys I am so so sorry I I didn’t know it this you know I said we needed to leave and I took him out of there I was just I was going on my friend’s advice you know he said man this is the best show out there and and I’ll be honest with these I mean Marilyn Manson musically is a genius you know I the music he was creating is incredible but man when you that bad spirit and it’s a bad spirit yeah you know along with it yeah then I can definitely say to you as a Christian don’t listen to Maryland yeah you know because I mean I’ve had experience with it and I go you know you just don’t listen to that kind of stuff you know because he’s blatantly was going after the Lord and so yeah but but did Satan give him that power not not in the least God gave him the power to do it you know I mean Alice Cooper who now is a Christian you know I mean he wasn’t using it for God now if he uses what he still does his home oh yeah yeah but he talks about God yeah yeah you know and stain from Megadeth as well uh-huh but God gave those you know every good and perfect gift the Bible says comes down from the Father of lights and Satan it’s not the father of lights he’s the Prince and the power of the air which is different you know and so and and music is a good and perfect gift you know so now it can be perverted again I think it’s through the human stall you know and and what they have worshiped yeah that’s good yeah but what they’ve worship you hear like you hear that a lot about uh Christian leaders taking the the youth group to to go see movies you know and they walk in and like oh we gotta go you know they take them in then they gotta apologize and stuff like that and it happens with movies but sometimes you gotta take a chance sometimes you could be missing out or you don’t want to just be in fear that the devil is here or the devil is there I mean there’s those people out there too when it comes to secular music though what do you think that the deal is I know it’s just music in general I’ve heard stuff where like there there are secular songs that I don’t know maybe are annoying it or speak to you where you are maybe that’s what’s going on you guys have redone a lot of secular songs over the years and did a really good job at it I can’t listen to those secular songs now without hearing your lyrics so that definitely happened um so what happens there there’s people that are saying that they are annoying it I’ve heard catchphrases was there just running from the Lord and they don’t know it and I’ve heard other other analogies just saying that you know the scripture says that the giftings and collins and talents are without reproach the Lord doesn’t give it to you and take it away so they’re annoying it now they’re doing the devil’s work but there are those secular songs I don’t know if they were created or if they were raised in church or they knew what they were doing but there is something there that some of those songs are just more unknown it than what we hear on Christian radio you know yeah well yeah when when God brought the children of Israel out of Egypt he told him he said go and borrow it’s funny that he uses the words borrow cause he knew that they weren’t gonna give it back he said goat borrow gold borrow all the other things that you need you know and get it from your owner so so and the Bible says and this way that’s how they spoiled the Egyptians they went and they got all this stuff well they took it into the wilderness and that’s what they go the tabernacle with the stuff that they stole you know for me Egypt you know they it was do them it was back wages you know but basically but they lied you know they went and they and as far as I can tell that could be in the wrong here but I remember God I remember in the Bible he says go and borrow from your you know and from the earth of people you know the Egyptians and and then then we’re gonna go out and so they go out you know and they they built the temple I look at secular music as as that gold you know that I just take it I mean right now we’re learning a song by Chicago called you’re the inspiration you know and you don’t even have to change one word instead of you know well I don’t say baby in the song but you know you might have heard that song you know that it’s just a really cool song and kind of like what is a sloppy wet kiss we got to change that yeah I can worship that stuff you know I don’t have any problem without it all you know it’s to me that’s the that’s the gold that you build the temple with you know oh so we talk about music let me just transition it let’s see what you got to say about this so with music is always accompanied with the dance where does dance come in to worship and I’m sure that that over the years there have been people who come in and do deep Studies on the power of dance and change falling off of you David danced you know saying naked ly before the Lord you know without any restrictions or anything like that what is the power of the dance come through like him break through and worship well it’s never it’s not used very often you know I can tell you that the I’m sitting in a room I’m at what used to be called PTL with Jim Baker and oh no baby oh I came to work here about before his fall and and and then I used to do the music here on the grounds for PTL and and the lady that danced here I can’t remember her name right now but she would dance she would just put like she would dance to CDs and stuff like that and I’ve never been touched me like that nobody’s ever sung a song that touched me the way that dance touched me Wow yeah and I have this friend these friends of mine up in Ottertail Minnesota there this place called the creamery said the most creative community I’ve ever seen in my whole life the dance the art the music the architecture that they come up with you know I mean it’s in magazines and stuff the pastor’s daughter Sophie who was one of my students in at a school in Germany for a while and then and she came to this school – she has a dead she did it – dance troupe a couple years ago and I couldn’t I mean it was I don’t feel bear seeing those videos stomp yeah you know I mean it was it was that caliber yeah I mean with rhythm things you know with poles and stuff you know and just like you know it was very very powerful I don’t see that in work you know I see like ladies with long dresses spinning around with tambourine machine ourself doing it or was their motto oh she had by nine kids with her all super trained I mean it was it it was as good as anything Janet Jackson ever put on or I’ll say or any any of those I mean it was awesome you know and of course the devil does not want to get that out of the bag you know he wants to keep that you know totally in the secretary world if anybody tells me that dancing is of the devil why is it that when a one-year-old is learning how to walk and the music comes on that they start mm-hmm jumping up and down you know they you know thank you you hear weird theologies out there though man you know it’s all kinda crazy stuff you had to put up with over the years traveling to a lot of churches myself doing gospel rap actually over the years and I’ve just seen Wow just crazy stuff over the years I’m down here in the Bible Belt too so it’s just like you can imagine right the church is right next door to each other had these crazy ideas about what God is and what he looks like and what he allows and things like that you know what was your favorite album with Morningstar and what was your favorite album that you’ve put out by yourself under your name I think battleground was a it was a really good album it’s mostly my songs that it just there was energy on that I don’t I don’t I don’t hear a lot of energy and worship music anymore yeah you know and it was that was there was just some great songs you know on that and when when that came out I took John Mark McMillan and amber Brooks and Luke’s gags and my son and Fergus Marsh the bass player for Kevin frosh and we went down to Brazil and we were doing this Youth Conference down there there’s like 5,000 youth you know and me and Luke Skaggs had written this song called burning bush which is like just it’s kind of like a phil tune but kind of rock-and-roll fiddle kind of a thing and all of a sudden like two or three thousand of them started yelling out you know and I’m going how in the world we just put that album out how in the world did people in Brazil know that song yeah sorry that my computer just did that you’re good in the so anyway that bad album was it was awesome but I still to this day my favorite CD did I put out as a thing called perspective and and then and I love that album because it was it was one of those things were it was I had I had just left my store for a while to start doing worship schools all over the world and and you know when I left I was going I I started listening to the way I was playing the way I was writing and I thought well I’m not very good anymore I’ve gotten really bad and I was so started spending real time thinking about my lyrics what am I trying to say you know thinking about my music what am i what am I trying to say with my music and so I I wrote these songs and they came just from my private time in the morning just you know just playing unto the Lord and I went out and did this conference out in Colorado and this place called resurrection church really cool church and the pastor it was a men’s meeting there was about a thousand men there and they were really touched by the new songs and in the pastor city and these are awesome songs he said when are you gonna record them I said what I don’t you know I don’t have a job whenever I get the money you know he goes well how much would it take and I said I don’t know and he so he went out before after the last session he goes look how many you guys like these songs and you know everybody was like yeah yeah you know he said we’re gonna take an offering and we’re going to we’re gonna we’re gonna get these songs recorded and they took up an offering and it was 36 thousand dollars you know and so I had a I had a studio here in town at 3 which is a really great studio that Jason Upton does a lot of stuff there and just about everybody uses it it’s probably the biggest best studio on the East Coast so I went in there I hired all the musicians the the best musicians I know to come in and play and and I paid him what they would get in Nashville I paid each musician 600 bucks a day you know which is what that’s a normal you know for a high-quality studio musician there did they get six to twelve hundred a day in Nashville and and so III didn’t have that budget we strength that you normally have and so consequently that album was really high-quality we recorded it at 96 rather than 44.1 we mixed to high-speed half-inch tape you know I was gonna go analog but the the tape cost was was gonna kill me you know and so I ended up we I went in 1 2 hours in the studio and recorded every instrument and we ran we let we ran on tape you know a half inch tape on a Studer 24 track machine and then we had we also ran 98 96 K on you know Pro Tools and that was the closest thing you know you could probably go up to one was at 188 or whatever it is a higher resolution on Pro Tools but we really could we could hardly tell the difference that we could still tell a little difference on the analog and the Pro Tools by running higher resolution but to you know the difference in tape costs and all time and all that it was like six or seven thousand more dollars and I just didn’t have it you know but if I ever get the money again I mean I would totally analog everything you know people who swear by a man so it’s it’s the there’s still I mean digital doesn’t really still come close yeah yeah the records I mean that’s coming back to I think they said vinyl sales right now or are actually higher than CD sales oh that’s interesting yeah well see these are selling in anymore – yeah that’s what they all go that’s the thing right it makes you think you know spend the extra money to do it to get the sales so that’s really interesting how they’ll something will come out and it’s something to kind of be obsolete and then it’ll come back I think it’s nostalgia though for the most part you know yeah but it’s also just sit in a room put a CD on and put a record on it and you could you can hear the difference Sealy goes from like 20 carats up dude like 20,000 records go from what one up to whatever has been created 50 a teeth I mean way beyond with the hearing range yeah but you you feel those high-end things you feel them in the hairs and who knows years you know that’s why it was announced is different yeah you can hear what we’re hearing there’s one thing but feeling it’s another right have you done any Studies on what is it um cymatics have you looked up any documentaries done any study it was pretty much the different there’s tones and and chords that you can play and water and sand will actually take the shape of that I’ve seen that yeah I have seen it yeah and there’s certain there’s certain notes I mean that’s something you can feel as well like they played that off note or that but uh you know I’m saying chord that’s just kind of like it just feels depressing when you play it and all depressing songs are in this key and essentially like if you do it with the water you can you can hook it up to a speaker and it’s pretty easy to make I’m gonna make one but it makes out these complex geometric patterns ones that are pleasing and more aesthetic sounding to the body make you feel good they make beautiful patterns and the ones that are just like confusing and feel bad they make just confusing patterns and in our body is made out of what 70% water is it you know what I’m saying so when we’re hearing that music or that positive words or affirmations are being spoke over you like it has something to do with that man like the energy that is through sound whether it’s our voice and just vibration and energy and frequency in general it’s real beautiful well you want to talk a little bit right here at the end about your school and what you got going on we wrote a it’s a two-year program and it’s it’s basically I’m running to pay pretty much I went to music school I went to four years of university and I pretty much teach them everything that they would learn at a university is musically and what we we we have every Friday night we have a meeting that we do worship form and that’s kind of like our recital for what we’ve learning all week you know and because the I think probably the difference in our worship school I try to keep it small in other words if schools is there’s a lot of practical training goes on here I mean we really teach them how to play we teach them how to sing we teach them how to write music everybody the whole class everybody writes their own songs that I don’t allow them to bring other songs in you know if they if they’re going to lead they’re gonna lead from a morning star like a song that one of our alumni has me or Don or Susie or alumni have written you know because I’m trying to create a whole different way different sound and you know when you’re bringing the traditional worship sounds are I mean I have to admit they sound good but their music ly they’re not very tantalizing you know and so so I I do a a half hour lesson with every student every week and that’s where I work on their compositions with them and and some of the compositions that are come getting ready to come out right now are pretty awesome yeah and and then the we have a theory class every week where they learn all the theory and now also I take all the songs that they’re learning and I explained the theory behind those songs so that they they learn how to write their chords they learn how to write read music it’s kind of a it’s the same thing you would learn in the university it’s just done with with worship in mind you know but by the time everybody leaves here they they all can write their own songs they all can play their instruments way better it’s it’s it’s not sitting in a classroom listening to you we don’t teach them about worship we teach them to worship yeah you know and and I try to teach them how to how to worship the practice room not way you get out on the stage you know and so we have extended periods of time I don’t know if you can this our practice room I don’t know if you can see it but I mean it’s you know we got a ham and you know and we got guitars and we got got both of my marshals in here and just it’s just filled with instruments you know some of them are actually not here that it’s just a huge you know it’s probably the most important thing I’ve ever done you know trying to get I’m trying to get them to I’m trying to get them to change their change the sound of what’s going on right now you know um I’ll be 67 and a couple of months and you know I don’t know you know I want to start hearing stuff that pleases me too yeah you know yeah I mean I don’t want him to write like me yeah and that’s not what I’m after I want them to write like themselves but I want to give them the tools to do that you know it’s know this isn’t a dig at any anybody but like when you listen to the Christian radio Christian music I think you know I say his name you know Jeremy camp knows how to write a good worship song right and he but he’s been doing it for maybe 20 years now where he’s just got this this formula they all kind of sound a little bit the same and it’s like okay I learned how to do it and I’m just gonna keep repeating almost the same song change the lyrics up here a little bit and it just works for him and so is that kind of what you’re saying just like the company like quit doing what everybody else is doing especially especially if we’re like able to so called access the courts of heaven hear directly from God and he’s just gonna write I wish it we should I really do think in the kingdom we should be ahead of the secular realms it’s not like trying to copy what they’re doing but we’re able to kind of take a new sound bring it to the table and to get them to copy it and I’ve actually seen that in the hardcore Christian metal scene there was some some bands that got really big in the mid-2000s and the hardcore Christian metal and and all the secular bands were stealing from them they were Norma Jeane under Oh some of those bigger bands As I Lay Dying Christian bands and the secular guys were copying them that actually happened in the mid-2000s and so I really feel like that’s how we’re supposed to be able to do this to bring something new to the table to make them like um hey let’s let’s try that versus the other way around I know it can work both ways but do you feel like that that we’re able to do that – well we don’t just have to sort keep by you know I’m saying regurgitating what’s working or whatever right well the problem that you have in in the worship movement or whatever you want to call it today is it can be financially motivated you know so nobody wants to Brok the boat just go back there you know what I’m saying and so concert you know if I personally think the love of money is what ruins before shit yeah you know because you’re afraid I mean you got okay you have all these yeah probably a million churches all playing the same songs yeah why because they’re easy yeah you know and because you know they listened and they’re they’re anointed there’s no doubt yeah the songs are anointed and it’s it’s become you know it’s like a it’s like a song mill you know coming out you know that and you if you go if you veer off any from that thing it’s not going to get played yeah you know in the regular churches and what I’m trying to teach these guys is you know well you know if if money is your God or if money is important to you don’t do what I’m doing yeah you know because you know there’s not that I mean I’ve make pretty good money I get I get good royalties and stuff you know but but it’s gone up and down you know I mean if I you know I look at those songs at those guys right you know and I go what a well-crafted song it’s a well-crafted song however I wouldn’t I personally wouldn’t listen to it you know but you know it kind of I’ve seen this I’ve been through the whole thing you know yeah I saw maranatha music come I saw it go I saw integrity music all good integrity yeah that’s that’s my mom but I mean that’s where they came from Oh bill right I like this guy’s I dance with you know and stuff I’ve seen Bethel music I’ve seen just stuff you know the Australian guys the Hillsong you know I’ve seen elevation all these guys and they are not going to rock the boat yeah you know I guarantee you but after a while people do get tired of it exactly so you got to be able to change with the season or change when God says the chains right right cuz you find you’re doing something that works the whole thing about following God following Christ is that yet cloud actually moved you know what I’m saying we have to be willing to walk in the spirit is to be able to walk in the cadence with the Holy Spirit and he you know here here in that new song the new song of the Lord here in that being able to become kind of move with that but if it’s working like you said they look if it ain’t broke don’t fix it so they’re just gonna stay with it the teks itself eventually I mean so if the person doesn’t change they either get left behind because they’re still stuck in that same sound or the church moves on because they’re ready for a new sound but a lot of times those people are left in the wake of not wanting to rock the boat right in the end so it really doesn’t work out and in the long run you have to be loud to change yeah I look at the people like Keith green you know okay well why are people still listening to him why aren’t people still you know singing his songs I still hear it you know in young people less the people unless they like asshole safety how many of you guys have heard of Carmen Amy Grant maybe if you you know how many of you have heard of Keith green everybody well yeah what’s the difference you know musical integrity mm-hmm you know the guy could play he knew how to him he could sit down to a piano by himself and do a concert and blow you away so he had the spiritual end he had the musical end going on and you know I think when you add the spiritual and the musical and then you’re gonna have some longevity yeah you know and and so a lot of the people that you’re hearing right now in 20 years you won’t hear of them you know that’s the thing about theirs I mean it’s 40 years ago yeah exactly and it still it still has it still has longevity that’s the thing with the radio tuned like you find these people what you know I guess it applies to Christian music in a radio too you hear these songs and they’re good for you know if you want to call it dirt you know I’m saying 15 minutes of fame that minutes could be three months but you don’t remember them like you remember it because it may admit something to you but you’re not digging up their old material and like man there was something that this music transcended time there’s so many singles that come out and they’re big for those nine weeks or whatever but then they just fall back they become make their quick money this happens in hip hop happens in pop and they’re just pushed under versus those people that you can name that you’ve been naming we can look at the legends and people are still listening to their music and it’s their music is timeless but what about this too because we’ve discussed this a little bit with those legends some of those people now we could say you know we could say Bob Marley we can say Kurt Cobain some people who brought something different and changed it and kind of you know put their stamp on the music industry birf something I think they sung from their soul they accessed that in my night weren’t able to access the spirit they access their soul they changed the way they make music that when you played it you can feel what they were going through whatever it was and usually wasn’t to glorify God sometimes it was right and you could feel that what about this so those legends if a lot of those guys died in their prom right and in that kind of help their destiny sealed their destiny they got to die at the pinnacle of their career and but on the other end we’re seeing people now well your idols will be destroyed your I you know say your idols fall in the end and if if they don’t die in their prom and they don’t get right with God we’re able to see these people who were like you know they called Michael Jackson the king of pop music the king of rock and roll if they don’t get their life right if they don’t balance stuff we get to see these leaders fall and then it kind of diminishes the legacy because we remember them in that last state it happens with hip-hop if the if the rapper wasn’t killed at the height of their career they end up putting a lot putting out a lot of music that just isn’t good anymore they weren’t able to change like we’re talking about you know what I’m saying have you what would you say to that to those people with their legacy or maybe it just ties back into being able to change and not be stuck with the music well if I’m talking to you music say constantly constantly be learning you know like I I will take I learn I’ll take songs you know I and I’ll just uh just because I listen to what they do and I go yeah I really want to learn how how did he do that I want to learn that you know it’s all take like say like Dave Matthews solder I learned the the guitar part to satellite you know and to learn how to do that and play at the same time you know just to learn it you know I’ll take John Mayer song neon you know because it’s just a hard guitar part you know and so I’m constantly taking stuff like that and just and and what ends up happening is that kind of music it kind of gets him in that I end up writing a little bit like that you know same thing with the violin and I’ll I’ll hear some smoke of me and I want to I want to learn that I’ve transcribed whole solos by jean-luc Ponty and yeah these different you know violinists you know just just just to keep its you have got to keep expanding yeah otherwise you you know if I mean I I discourage all of my spoon listening to worship music while they’re during the school in the school yeah yeah you know I say you go listen I said don’t listen to Marilyn Manson you know but don’t you know I said the reason is I want you to start writing like your stuff and not like these people mm-hmm you know I don’t want you to write like me now they they they learn a lot of my songs because my songs have a lot of chords in it that they’d never hear they’d never do in a normal setting you know and then I teach them a lot of secular songs you know – because I want I want them to learn there’s more than three or four chords out there you know and and then how how to put those chords in into effect in so so that they will have longevity yeah you know so that there are music you know when they’re my it when they’re 66 I’ll be 67 when they’re I mean even though it’s not the most popular music in the world I know that you know but it’s it’s in the church it’s one some of the most creative you know because it’s I’m just I’m I’m throwing things in all the time you know from because I’m I had my Paul my hand on the pulse of what’s going on and music in general you know on the rock scene and megohm Rock scenes you know and the jazz scene the bluegrass all that I keep I keep very aware of what’s happening you know and so I write with those styles in mind so I can they’re not gonna hear this in church yeah you know they won’t they won’t hear this stuff you know and they’ll never you know now they may go Alan but I have heard that all the guys that came through the worship school which is you probably know a lot of them yeah you know really famous at this point you know if you listen to them to us to this day I think they’re the best worship leaders out there I mean they’re writing the most creative in the most you know but it’s they’ve toned way down from what they’ve learned here and you have to gotta kind of combine it I was right yeah nobody I mean the stuff that we’re learning here’s not is it’ll never be mainstream you know but it’s kind of like the people that walk down the runway you know you know showing off those clothes nobody would wear those clothes on the street you know but the next year you see that style influencing what’s sold in Kmart you know and and that’s what I’m I look at ourselves and what we’re doing here we are here to influence them we’re not here to make them into our image whatsoever you know and I’m sure that they will it’s going to really I mean I’m just writing a number of songs with the students right now and I mean there’s one girl she came in and and we wrote the song and it sounds like a really cool old nickel creek song if you know who they are mm-hmm yes that’s kind of like a bluegrass hip you know it’s a really cool sound and you know so there they are all writing different styles one of the the keyboard player you know I listened to what he was coming up with I said man have you ever listened to a group called Chicago I said no you know I said because you the way you’re writing is just like them you know and he’s a young guy a kid from Mongolia and and so I made him learned that the piano part today you’re my inspiration by Chicago because I wanted what was out there you know I said this is this is the style you’re gravitating towards anyway so yeah I think longevity just basically has to do with with keep learning and keep changing don’t don’t you know now if you’re James Taylor no don’t change you don’t change your style but you know stay James Taylor you know could break you if you change two months if something that’s working it’s working for a reason but there’s gonna be a season where it doesn’t work anymore and you got to you got to be able to to know when like hey I got to change this up let me ask you just a quick a quick shout out to my wife she has always said over the years that um she has no musical bone in her body and I’ve always played in bands and did music and done my recording and all that kind of stuff but her when it comes to music she says she couldn’t sing she had this weird ungodly belief really that there that there’s no way even if she wanted to she could learn music tempo theory nothing like that she just started playing the iewk and and she’s being consistent she’s learning she’s showing up she’s practicing every day and she’s getting a little better and she’s kind of blowing her mind cuz she’s totally told herself that there was no way possible that this could happen and she’s starting to sing a little bit and she’s really enjoying it it’s blowing her mind what would be some advice for her just starting out just learning how to sing just learning how to play and kind of combining the two what would you say if somebody was playing the iewk just starting out and still kind of afraid of their voice even a little bit yeah I think in the beginning is just fine what we have a real advantage with the Internet yeah you know just find some stuff and learn it you know look what’s going on you know and say okay how do you play this song on the ukulele put it up go the most likely going to come up yeah it most likely somebody’s already put it on there learn it you know when I was growing up you know I had to go to concert if I want to see live music I had to go to a concert they had like music on anything you know when I turned into a teenager they had a thing called Don Kirshner rock concert that was the first time they had rock music on television so if I wanted to go I had to go to a concert and that’s how I learned to play you know as I’d go and I’d watch these guys I’d watch Clapton or I’d watch the The Allman Brothers were in Jacksonville at that time I’d go to it and watch them Skynyrd you know and all these guys from Jacksonville were playing around and I’d have said watch what they were doing that’s how I learned you know but you guys the younger you don’t have an excuse anymore right yeah you got it so there’s no particular website to go to or I think they can go to lennard-jones comm also okay for the most part I just used Facebook for the most part heck yeah it is good that too that you’re actually doing that cuz I’ve just heard people like on this way out they’re super spiritual stuff is like they’ll say this you know when it’s time for me to play the Lord’s gonna teach me then I’ll just be able to walk up to the piano and the Spirit will lead me what the play is that kind of weird you know they kind I say well well he never does he never did yeah I’ve heard that over the years too so it’s good to use wisdom in all area so if you guys look into that’s what you feel like the Lord’s calling you to lead worship definitely get up with Leonard Jones and uh he’s definitely has a long list of songs and and other musicians who were successful right now and leading the game right now that he’s trained up and doing it so Leonard man I really appreciate you coming on hanging out with me I really enjoyed this conversation brother I’d love to do it again with you sometime in the future yeah good meet you thank you man god bless okay god bless you Leonard Jones ladies and gentlemen Morningstar ministries good stuff great stuff y’all let me know in the comments if my stream is cutting in and out I’m recording this on the back end too just in case but uh yeah man this dis podcast man what are the people I’ve been able to talk to over the years it’s been insane like man I’ve been able to talk to people that I’ve looked up to since I was man six seven years old had conversations with people I have them on here as guest people who have made a huge impact on my life that I guess at the time listening to their music or watching their work you know this like that celebrity and that renowned there’s that you feel like you know them because you’ve listened to man hundreds of hours of their material lennard-jones definitely one of them busy bone from bone thugs-n-harmony as I was a kid was definitely one of them Andrew Schwab from project 86 I mean the majority of these people man I’ve just reached out to them and at different seasons that I’m in and God lines it up I’m able to have these people on here pick pick their brain and talk to them and it’s like you don’t understand like even in our discord I gave a shout out our discord community those of you who want to join the link is in the description but we’ve been listening to a lot of Morningstar here lately and it’s really good stuff and it’s something about that music that has longevity and like pushed the envelope something different it wasn’t just what was popular at the time trust me like it wasn’t for everybody I had like he’s saying like you wouldn’t hear their music on the radio I have my friends who couldn’t stand them they couldn’t stand their music but for those who were wanting to get into the spirit and go deep with God in the spirit realm like their music was a catalyst to that and I I want my music to do that I want my music I want to be able to put my music on for people in it and then be able to get alone with God or ride in their car and be taken to another place as you’re listening Morningstar ministries and and lennard-jones and all those names he mentioned that he’s worked with over the years have definitely been a part of that in my life and again with when I was the Lord was showing me what it meant to being to be prophetic and these giftings and abilities it was a company by Morningstar ministries by the work of well the the preaching the teaching the writings of Rick Joyner and the worship of Leonard Jones and Don Potter and some of those guys and it was just beautiful just a whole essence for me what it how much it meant to me and I’m doing what I’m doing which excuse me wow I’m doing what I’m doing today because of those guys that’s the beauty and there’s a lot of people strategically that’s been placed in my life and I’m like they have shaped me they’ve imparted something even knowingly or unknowingly that are shaped the way I approach music or approach life or approach spirituality and yeah man it was an honor to speak with him good stuff I want to uh I’m sorry I’m getting over this cold guys my throat so um I want to play you guys a snippet of this video here I’m gonna play the video and you in in those listening you can listen to the audio end both will do justice you can listen to it but um there was a guy listening to the true seeker podcasts I guess he was into some esoteric deeper understanding stuff and but he’s also a Christian too he listened to the interview that I did with JT Ramsey who is a tent revival Asst preacher evangelist he he’s doing the old school tent revival setting up a big tent in the middle of the country preaching people come they’re saved and delivered and healed really cool guy we did an episode on and I’ve been working with this guy for some years I’ve done his website it helped did his logos and stuff like that so I’ve been working with him for some years had him on as a guest that we talked about seeking God in the secret chambers of prayer and and really where all spiritual authority and spiritual power comes from is in those secret places with God would you draw away and which is the same thing we was talking about today Leonard Jones says his most powerful Tom’s was God isn’t on stage with thousands of people it’s when he goes in his prayer room and shuts the door and just gets along with God those encounters that he’s had there has changed his life same for me but that’s what we talked about on the interview with JD Ramsey if you haven’t heard that one be sure to go back and listen it was really good but this guy was listening and he got convicted I guess because he had not been in his prayer chamber you hadn’t been going to that secret place with God you kind of this put sometimes you can get caught up and just seeking knowledge seeking understanding and you kind of get away from the experience all knowledge of God of just being with God right you learned about God and in theories and the universe and things like that versus just going to meet with God yourself and that’s the privilege that we all have through Christ that were able to kind of go boldly to the throne room of God through Christ and what he’s done for us and so Christ takes that that veil or that wall that separates us that Gulf that separates us between from God and he bridges the gap that we don’t have to have the priests we don’t have to have these systems in place and all of this kind of weird stuff essentially why people aren’t going to church right now because of all that weird stuff in between you and God like you have to go you have to jump through these hoops and pretend to be someone you’re not and pretend you don’t like things or pretend like you don’t listen to the true seeker podcast you know whatever the church would tell you Jesus busted that junk open and that’s the Liberty that is in Christ and the freedom we talked about that the guy felt convicted to return to his first love as the scripture says to return through prayer and he found convicted but he felt encouraged and he got closer to God the guy said that he lived about two hours away from where JT Ramsey was preaching so he thought to himself why don’t I go check him out so he drove he loaded him and his family up two hours and drove two hours and they went to the the meeting and they had an encounter with God he brought his son with them who’s been experiencing some some issues and they got a miracle so I’m just gonna play this it’s about six minutes or so I believe but I want you guys to be encouraged and then I’ll come back and do a little bit of commentary but I’m gonna go ahead and play this and I want you guys just to listen I’m gonna let JD to tell you because this is JD kind of talking about that whole experience during his uh his preaching uh last week so uh let’s see all right here I go let me know what’s at if you can hear rent a place to probably stay there I’m a long time sound like I’ll ever get there you see them they’re always impeccably dressed I just I don’t know I may not you figure that out and they stay clean it’s that it’s just a lot of hard work but you know the fruit of it’s always work the things that happen out here I’ve seen so many things happen people think you got to get on a jet plane you go to foreign country to see some of this stuff happen in the United States what we see happen underneath these hands powerful things and so on just because you’re in the middle of nowheres Ville USA doesn’t mean something score there it can’t happen in there just make your mind up I’ve already got my mind made up I read this testimony I got last night but gentleman came down this is incredible message to me this today this is awesome how many no real last night it’s good wasn’t it got this food and we let him do it and this gentleman here he’s from st. Louis he found out about the meeting but listen to a podcast I was on with another Christian rap artist out of Mobile Alabama I was on the program here a couple of weeks ago and he was interviewing me just talking to me about how I have encounters with God to supernatural things and I guess podcast pretty well received no fairly broad audience a lot of response back from it so provoke some people but this guide or the podcast he’s a Christian rapper when he lifts up towards Santos I think over me Madison is that my granite see that’s where he stays it messaged me and asked what the week was going on said he probably come down and and anyway this is what happened showed up last night this is what I’m talking about what faith and expectation does alright it just puts a pool on God and I spend most of the time outcomes okay last night if you really got the crux of what I was talking about I was talking about the power of hunger spiritual hunger now most people just don’t have any that’s why they never get any thinking god they’re really not that hungry they work the Lord and feed over you can’t think it out and I grieve you I flew you’re not hungry I can tell now come on here preacher preached all kinds of nights all over the United States and I don’t when people are hungry knowing people or not I’m not a make them hungry so it’s not a bad night for me but I mean it’s a shame I gotta make people hungry my god I gotta go out here make these folks hungry making one guy so this is the boring night out here tonight now go get blasted one way or the other but you gonna come along with or not but but basically I mean everything I said last night all went back to the ability and hunger how it puts a hold on God real simple stuff you don’t ever hear anything about this breach need more because nobody’s encountering God they don’t know anything about it it’s the truth all right I mean I’m not saying that there’s no people that are counting Lord but people that understand humility before the Lord and I’m a big guy and I’m a loud guy and I’m a man’s man but behind closed doors I’m here not broke you know I got a contrite spirit you know I get ready for my meeting so let’s go sit on the floor crime it’s what I do it’s my strategy right there you all know my secret that’s it I go sit down on the floor and I found it’s awesome it works out great I get real woke up over people on your broke up over there situations to come out here we’ve got blossom places what’s that well the forum look you can do this all right you know that people say you know I’m not going anywhere with the Lord I’ll say well well have you tried tears yeah [Music] it’s just something about it I was in there asking him for some money for a couple puppies the other day I was following about it to Sophie’s like a little kid my monocle give me couple puppies dude I want some expensive dogs I want to put the money on his foundation who’s missing dogs go with my dad he asked me for a puppet he’s a good daddy I know that might seem shallow to you but I’m gonna I’m pulling all of his buddies I want some nice puppies I’ll just go cry about it that’s just some stuff that happened by closed doors in my house but this is the power of hunger this is what it would do hunger in humility a lot of times people want to get a miracle for God but they can’t even sit there 15 minutes of service let me know I hope your attention spans a little bit longer than that and then she’d give God will get more time than that we just want to get in and get out and people don’t understand you know you don’t understand what’s going on with people’s lives in here tonight just the different circumstances in the situation something if you can pull back the veil and see other thing that’s going on how desperate people actually are and how desperately they need an intervention from God that’s what we’re doing out here I mean we’re dealing with life and death issues with people we really are I mean I deal with people like Matt that’s becoming out here he’s not here tonight he’s gonna go home kill himself that night he came out here got delivered now I doubt his back on bars marriage is back right the church about blow up [Applause] so this is this is awesome right here this guy he messaged me yesterday so what times weeks don’t like it down there told me how I found out about that this is what he what he said God really touched him and his wife last night but I pray for his son some was about that big and that’s I’m just woman everywhere crazy said what’s that brother but I just wanted to testify you prayed for my son last night he had been having behavioral issues and he couldn’t concentrate or even write his name he couldn’t even tell you all the letters just talking about his son he couldn’t even tell you the letters of his name was it’s brain we haven’t seen a major difference in he seems calm and normal like I can have a conversation with him he looks at me I die and dialogues with me when before he could he wrote his full day at school and told us every letter of his name we’re experiencing a miracle in our son and I give God all the glory thank you brother for believing with this agreement this is amazing transformation with the blood of the Frog this is what we did this is why I did this and just add more so yesterday we took him to the doctor for the first time when the doctor was already who’s ready to go on medication the school noticed something was wrong so they tested him and they were waiting to give us the results with the doctor being my wife for not wanting to put him on meds I was gonna put my feet on those kind of things either it was tugging at me yesterday to drive all the way to Carbondale they’ll just expect whatever the Lord had for him my family glass gun I asked my son if he wanted to get prayed over I didn’t want to force not if I wanted him to decide finally he said yes oh yeah some kind of form of ADHD and I mean if you would’ve saw the little boy alive he’ll know who was talking about if you were here last we serve a mighty God well Wow excuse me again Wow so the guy went out there and seen JD felt led of the Lord to go took his son with him his son was suffering from some ailment some kind of ADHD or whatever and he said that JD was saying his eyes were just kept moving all over the place but he said he couldn’t hold a conversation with the son he couldn’t spell his name he couldn’t write his name just because he couldn’t hold a thought and it was just hard to kind of get through to his son they took him up there in faith drove two hours got there in faith went up for prayer JD prayed for the family and I’m assuming they fell out under the power of God is what he said God touched him took the boy back to get tested tested and at school and he’s been able to hold conversations with his son he’s given his son understanding be able to control his body self-control like when you have no control of your mind and no control of your thoughts and no all over your eyes and things like that the Holy Spirit comes to give us self-control and he imparted that to that that’s a miracle he got it is that being moved through desperation and hunger and wanting it so much so that he drove two hours I mean and he got got what he came for his son got touched by God I still believe in miracles I really do it’s beautiful and I’m just I’m thankful that God would would do that God would use me or use this podcast or this platform strategically and I’m this is with intention like every guest is on here for a reason like I said there’s people who did not like that episode it was a very churchy episode it was very we use a lot of Christianese most people don’t understand that but we talked about tried to make it more plain for everybody Universal God is a universal term in general when we talk about God we’re talking about God getting alone with God the power of God moving at the Holy Spirit it’s not for everybody some people may not even listen to that podcast but this guy listen to that episode listening to the true seeker podcast listen to it stepped out in faith drove two hours to go see JD Ramsey his son got rocked by the Holy Spirit and got healed that is God strategically using [Music] this podcast me and I love it this isn’t a one-time deal I get these messages all the time and they used to blow me away but I just get them so much now I love it I just I just brag on God every time I don’t take it for granted but I just brag on God and I thank God it’s always something it’s always hey I heard you through this or I heard you through that or I looked up Jordan Maxwell and and here you are praying for me when you prayed when you prayed at the end of the Jordan Maxwell interview I felt god I started to cry when you started praying and I wanted to know what you know and I wanted to give my life to the god you serve I get those messages this is this is the strategy every move is a calculated step and it’s awesome when you get to work with God when when like we’re talking about going into the secret chambers getting God’s heart getting that vision and making it manifest okay God how can you use me being led by the spirits being able to move in the spirit walking in the spirit the word is Caruso in the Greek as the walk in the spirit it’s a cadence left right left right when you go left I go left when you go right I go right when you don’t move I’m not moving right you know Bible says that those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God sons and daughter of God you gotta be led by the Spirit whatsoever has not done of faith a sin without without faith you cannot please God it takes stepping out in faith and being able to be obedient to the voice and to the wind

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