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Levi Darger is the founder and CEO of Entheopreneur, which offers education, support & consulting for professional entrepreneurs who want to work with psychedelics in a safe, effective, responsible & healthy manner for the sake of personal growth & spiritual development. He also runs Entheosis Base Camp, a wilderness-based spiritual growth adventure/intensive for established business professionals who want to accelerate their evolution into more depth, purpose & connection in life, and who aren’t afraid to go deep, get real & take off the masks to do it. And he is a founding member of The Entheos Alliance, an invitation only mastermind community that brings leading influencers to gather together as brothers & sisters with a common goal of radically transforming society through promoting right relationship, restoring community and embracing love, humility & service as their highest values.
Levi is a speaker, entrepreneur, musician, primal philosopher, and occasional intrepid explorer of the cosmos through sacred plant medicine work and he passionately advocates a holistic living philosophy which he calls entheosis; “the ongoing discovery of oneself as a vessel in joyful service of the infinite intelligence we call Life”. Or as he puts it, “letting Life live you back.” Inspired by profound experiences with sacred plant medicine and drawing on a unique path of personal growth, entrepreneurial experience, spiritual studies and a deep listening and love for the natural world, his goal in life is to help create a world that feels good not only to us here in this moment, but one that our great grandchildren will be proud of us for. He believes this requires nothing less than a fundamental shift in the way we relate with Life.


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truth-seeker and/or its affiliates are not responsible for any strange phenomena that may occur during or after listening to this podcast which may include the following heightened senses of awareness psychic abilities UFO sightings alien contact time loss out-of-body experiences ringing in the ears ESP lucid dreaming increasing chronicity astral protection telepathy stronger intuition levitation miraculous healings and/or remote viewing please be advised to assume a jury decision [Music] what you [Music] she’s paid to stand when I don’t be you are now locked into the to think of podcasting live a juicy become mortal to the paranormal esoteric and all paying spiritual and now your host truth seeker yo what’s up ladies and gentlemen I’m your host true seeker this is the true seeker podcast excited delighted to be with you guys again today sharing this beautiful sacred space with you all and got a good show plan for you all we’re gonna get into some good understanding about spirituality and plant medicines and entrepreneurship and mixing all that stuff together so we’re gonna be getting into that here within the next few minutes can’t go any further without saying a huge thank you to everyone supporting my work via patreon we are listening to supported show and I this show doesn’t exist without your help so thank you guys again from the bottom of my heart everybody supporting in some of the newest patrons within the last week or so I’m gonna give a person to shout out to let’s see Moses galavan thank you for coming on Kevin Maxwell shout out to you and let’s see here shout out to Rin ronita thank you guys for believing in the work partnering with me and coming on to bring this stuff to the table if you would like to support head on over to patreon dot-com backslash true seeker there you get access to my entire discography of music behind the scenes stuff extra podcast some really cool stuff that I’m putting out recently I just put out two meditations actually yesterday they’re available as well so I got a bunch of those over there as well so if you believe in the work and you want to partner with me and get access to a bunch of cool stuff head on over there and check that out and we’re also reworking some of the tiers to kind of get you know I’m saying bring you guys some more stuff that uh that uh you know some private courses that we’re doing you get access to the Thursday night School of the Mystics as well and I’m also gonna be opening up a Monday morning session that we’re gonna be doing for a group session so if you guys are looking forward to starting your Monday mornings off right and you want to get with a group and do that find your tribe and vibe with this send me a message and I’ll send you all the info on that so patreon.com backslash true seeker and thank you guys for the support again go ahead and bring in our guest today my guest is Levi Dawg nur is that how you say dark Berger I added a G in there always those names bro hey Mei welcome to our broadcast brother we got a lot to talk about today how are you I’m awesome thank you so much for having me really excited to be on here and share and connect with you and your audience so thank you definitely man so I guess a good place to start would be just kind of you know telling the audience a little bit about yourself and what you bring to the table man for sure yes so I have a program called in Theo printer and we work with a high level high performing entrepreneurs and the premise of in Theo preneur is really simple we connect entrepreneurs more deeply to themselves to their life’s work and to each other it’s really just about bringing us back to what matters I think so much about business and entrepreneurship that has become flashy and you know ego and it’s all about me or it’s all about success and it’s all about how I look and how I appear and a lot of people that have climbed their way to the top have done so because they’ve been driven by really deep inner pain right and they get to the top and they find out that the fulfillment that they were seeking isn’t there right and that is sort of the catalyst for an inward search for a lot of people and that’s where I come in and we use we like what we like to do is is combine so we do like adventures and expedition and things like that a lot of times we’re going through the wilderness do badass meetups and trips and neat places around the world and then we’ll also incorporate plant medicine so psilocybin ayahuasca sometimes will facilitate even indiamain things like that I’m always in a really responsible respectful and appropriate sort of a format this interesting man because you’re talking about how people have climbed the ladder of success and especially when it comes to corporate America or capitalism it can be tricky you got a stet you got to step on a lot of people’s you know backs you got a you got a you got to work you got to produce you got a you know there’s something there’s some tricky things that that people have done to kind of weasel their way to the top to be successful you know to sell that product or whatever it is so I’m wondering getting the all these people out there’s you know some of these people maybe if they’re new to plant medicines and new to this kind of thing if you get them out in the wilderness and then they have that uh you know one-on-one with God you know after having all of this stuff like what am I doing with my life do people abandon you know their callings or what they’ve been doing would they kind of get a new you know say approach on it or have like a come to Jesus meeting out there how does that that’s a lot to deal with with people who are already successful I kind of I’m on the other end we do similar things but it’s people who are trying to find their calling trying to find their their passing you know yeah sometimes sometimes you get people who you know they come out of that they come out of you know a a week-long session in Colombia working with ayahuasca and they come out of it going holy shit my whole life has been a lie and this you know I get to make a 180 shift in this direction or you know more often than not people are coming out with a lot of clarity around how they can actually take what they’ve created and and start aiming that towards something that that creates you know more meaningful contribution because I think you know when you really look at it I mean my experience and my story about the universes is that even when we’re in our deepest ignorance if you will even when we’re operating from from blindness and pain and whatever else we may be operating from the higher self is is always driving that ship right and I think there’s a reason or a purpose why we go into the things that we do and we usually come out of especially when you come out of plant medicine experiences you come out of that with a lot of clarity and you see the value in everything that you did even if it was fucked up or even if it was you know created pain for you or for others or you know you had to step on the backs of the suffering to get there you come out of it with perspective and I think that that’s incredibly valuable how would you market something like that like how do you get people to sign up for the case no could you because you’re going out to the wilderness I mean even that in itself is just super powerful just returning to nature essentially but how do you market the the plant medicines side of it because a lot of its illegal right and there’s people who kind of know do you message them how does how does that work if somebody who wants to do a retreat or whatever with you how like how do you let them know that this is what we’re doing you know with it being illegal yeah well first of all as far as anybody’s concerned everything which is actually aboveboard so we you know when we do when we organized an ayahuasca retreat we’ll go to Colombia or Costa Rica or places like that where that’s legal we have we’re probably going to be doing a psilocybin retreat in Holland where there’s legal loopholes where you can actually work with psilocybin truffles and things and and then you know a lot of a lot of it is because a lot of what I do is also in addition to these events like I’ll support people in cultivating their own relationship with plant medicine right so there’s a lot of coaching and consulting people who are actually that maybe they’re microd because that’s one of the things we’re doing kind of helping people move deal with things like depression and anxiety sometimes they’re coming out of you know so we’ll do micro dosing and as far as marketing it’s actually there’s a lot of word-of-mouth you know people could not have it going while this this totally changed my life a lot of these people don’t want anybody to know that they’re working with something as controversial as plant medicines but there are some you know some of the guys that have worked at like Ryan’s Dumon a really great guy really when he came to us like he was he was the whole idea being out in nature and plant medicine all of that stuff was just like this is not you know he’s like this is this is stupid I’m not a nature guy I I don’t know what I’m doing here kind of a thing coming out of that completely completely just changed his his his perspective and I remember him coming out of out of his experience talking about you know having seen what a synthetic I think that was the word he used what a synthetic world we live in like and he was talking about how everything he was seeing the plants were showing him how removed he was from nature from his own nature from everything else you know and so a lot of a lot of a lot of guys are coming out of it with experiences like that and some of them like Brian like I said are are really awesome about sharing openly and publicly like Brian’s the type of guy he dumped he didn’t don’t give a fuck what anybody thinks right so he’s talks about what what matters for him and and that that helps a lot yeah but I think at the end of the day it’s really just about delivering an immense amount of value and then letting that speak for herself mm-hmm what was your your your first experience with uh with psychedelics or plant medicines I kind of let you know that hey this is something I shouldn’t embrace did you find your own healing you know it’s you in the beginning yes absolutely I did you know I I had a very long and painful history so I I I came out of as I was sharing with you before I started the show I came out of a a fundamentalist Mormon religious polygamous community and was raised with what I now look back and I see there’s a lot of emotional abuse a lot of spiritual abuse a lot of a lot of dynamics there despite the fact that you know in a lot of ways I had a loving family but there’s still a lot of pain and a lot of trauma that came out of that so for many years of my life that that pain was was haunting me and created a lot of problems in pain and in my marriage and my relationships all over the place and long story short it was several years ago I had kind of hit rock bottom you know separated from my wife she had taken my son and moved back to Germany which is where she’s from and this was about eight years ago and rock bottom didn’t know where else to go I really just tried to drown my pain through alcohol through Affairs through you know anything that I could to numb that pain and ended up through happenstance ended up at a meditation retreat and I met a gentleman there coming out of the retreat from Colombia and he was the first he told me about ayahuasca and up to that point I had never I think I’d tried smoking pot like twice and it didn’t agree with me so I’d never done anything with anything and so he told me about ayahuasca in the moment he told me about it though is this like my whole spirit just just went like this I don’t even know what ayahuasca is yet he hasn’t finished explaining it to me but my spirit knows and this I need to go and it took me about three years because I had a lot of fears and a lot of excuses a lot of stories a lot of things in between took me three years to actually get down to Peru and when I went down it was deep jungle it was like flying into a ketose and then you take a two hour bus ride out to the river and then a two hour boat ride down the river and you’re in the middle of the jungle and I spent three weeks down there doing ayahuasca ceremonies and it was there’s no words for it was just absolutely indescribable healing transformation release catharsis being shown dynamics of my life and the way I had created things that stories that I’d been living through and and meanings that I had put on experiences as a child a lot of pain around my father and these things were just coming up and coming out and there was also a lot of emotional catharsis like just grief just be a nun description you know what I what I would call my own personal Gethsemane if you will and having all of these things come out and come out and that was that was the beginning for me of a really incredible journey into learning how to work with plant medicines and eventually answering a call that I felt to facilitate for others that was kind of the birthing process of it of kind of like just kind of going within to get that vision almost like actually going into to get to healing and then bringing the healing back out to people as well to get that vision right yeah I mean that it started out just for my own personal healing actually for quite a while it was just you know and that that trip to Peru that was the beginning of it and you know it’s funny I used to think that I used to think that that was my red pill moment you know I keep going down and taking the eyewash you read for a moment and if you know if you’re familiar with the matrix I’m sure a lot of us are and the symbology of that and the hero’s journey that it represents right yeah and what I’ve come to realize is that was not actually my Redco moment that was my phone call in the office moment not I mean yeah so the hero gets the call to action and there’s a call to go cross that threshold there’s a call is calling you towards your red pill moment that red co moment as a moment you commit it revocable II to your path of transformation right and the phone call in the office moment like that’s the call to action but neo and in that scene right there you know that he’s got his higher self which is Morpheus right it’s on the phone and guiding him through the office and gets him to the window and all he has to do is jump and he’s got afraid like he’s good to go right but he’s scared he’s like I don’t know who’s on the phone with me I don’t know this is scary I don’t even know if these guys that he says chasing me are all that bad you know others stay here and that’s the refusal of the call and I think we all refuse the call initially and I know I did and so coming back out of that you have this and basically the point that I’m making with that is is that the plant medicine I think this is a really important point to make and I make this with everybody they work with plant medicine does not change your life you change your life right you get a glimpse into possibilities you get shown things you are brought to understand things a little more clearly and then you have the choice to go back into your life and take action to transform or not right and and that’s I think a critical point to make because a lot of people see plant medicines is like a shortcut to enlightenment or a shortcut to whatever they’re trying to get to and it’s I think the furthest thing from when you when you work properly okay so that’s it that’s a good word you bring up shortcut um and doing my research I was I was kind of hesitant as well to to try the plant medicines as far as like psilocybin was my big come-to-jesus thing and I was hesitant I was listening to a lot of interviews Aubrey Marcus amber Lian reset dot Emmie you know all that kind of stuff and then it was peeking my interest but I would hear other people’s such as David Wilcock and others talk about how like the psychedelics are shortcut and you need to do the spiritual work you need to lie even those heightened states of consciousness that you can achieve similar states not the same thing by any means we’d like to say that they are but like through Kundalini Yoga or Kabbalistic meditation or holotropic breathing and breath work you can enter heightened states of consciousness and experience similar realms they’re not I don’t think that’s the same but I would kind of pride myself on the fact that I we didn’t need you know the plant medicine or we didn’t need a shortcut that just burst open your pineal gland and shoot you in outer space that you can gently kind of go into those realms by doing the work so that’s really interesting that you bring up the word shortcut because I had that misconception there from hearing people talk about it who probably didn’t really know what they were talking about right to say that you can experience the same states I don’t think they’re the same at all you know because each each plant teacher has something different to show you in a different realm that they operate in and you get access to as well so you have to deal with with you know I’m saying the BS you have to deal with this stuff that you’ve been suppressing or act like didn’t happen or maybe you created a different scenario in your mind to await a way to cope with pain and traumas or even things that you’ve done to people but when you go into those realms you have to deal with that stuff right absolutely you do and and and I think there’s a couple of really good points that you that you made that are worth expanding on and one of them is the term that you use when you talk about it plant teachers and how each one of them has you know something different to to show you and I think that that’s that’s a good place to start with this conversation because first of all looking at looking at plant medicines and sort of like the the purpose of the value or the way you know like what value do they serve if they’re not shortcuts or if they are shortcuts or whatever and this is just this is my paradigm this is what I found the most value in relating to it this way I’m not going to say that this is the right way or the wrong way I think everybody gets to sort of choose their way of relating to this but but I find a tremendous amount of value in this perspective and that is to first of all recognize that what we’re talking about is not a substance so much is it is a relationship with an actual intelligence you know and a lot of people go oh that’s kind of but the you know I experience especially since working with plant medicine I experience a universe that is inherently intelligent that is alive and I I think it’s not it’s not a stretch the imagination by any means to understand it that you’re dealing with an actual intelligence that is self-aware sentient aware of you and loving very loving and so and a lot of people describe experiences with these different medicines for example a lot of people will call ayahuasca the grandmother you know and I I have experienced it very much that way it’s like you know like a grandmother like almost like a an indigenous kind of grandmother right like the kind who’s very loving and very kind but she ain’t gonna take no shit and you’re gonna respect the elders right and she also has an agenda for you like she she’s got something specific that she’s gonna deliver for you and so the way the ayahuasca tends to work for example is is kind of like come here come here sweetheart come here come come to Grandma and then wow you know squeeze all your puss in your garbage out and then calm you down and it tends to come in waves like that like really intense and then really blissful and really intense and really blissful you have San Pedro watch Yuma which is more of a masculine energy I find that they call it teal uncle and and then you have psilocybin what’s just lost Nino Santos the sacred children very playful III experienced it that way and very almost like psilocybin tends to be like hey where do you want to go right oh you just want to you just want to pop me at a rave and have fun and not go anywhere deep ok fine cool whatever your your game you want to go deep it’s there yeah but if you are go deep let’s go like I’ll go where you want to go but to understand first of all that these are intelligences and to relate to them that way and to second of all to the way that I look at it and the way I approach working with medicine is it’s very much to me like when you step into a ceremony or a journey if you will it’s like stepping into the classroom of God that’s how I look at it right and your higher-self your guides or angels the the plant medicines however you want to look at whatever that is there’s a there is a higher intelligence that is operating and working with you and that is the professor cool about God being the school in the classrooms and teachers being the different entities or plant teachers as well like God being doll just the entire school and eats you know teacher that works under him or her or whatever you know yeah absolutely and that to me that’s kind of what these are is like different professors in a sort of a university and the course that you’re taking the fundamental course that you’re taking is Who am I 101 right and so sometimes you’re being introduced to all the things that you’ve thought you were that you’re not and getting those peeled back and getting a glimpse into the deeper version of yourself sometimes you’ve been introduced to your your potential and and the way I experienced it and I think a healthy way to work with plant medicine is to first of all to understand that the way that the medicine works is it meets you wherever you are on in the staircase of consciousness like we’re all just walking each other home this is gonna meet you wherever you are it’s gonna take you a few steps higher and it’s going to give you a glimpse into what life is like in at this place in consciousness and then it’s gonna drop you back down to where you were and it’s almost like Kay now you know what you’re aiming for start climbing those stairs go back into your life and into the work so you went into the classroom you got an education you got a lesson you got homework right and it’s up to you to go do the homework now if if you come out of that and you don’t do the homework and you go back into class again it’s you get the professor’s gonna be like did you do your homework no the dog ate it right all right here’s the same lesson maybe a little harder yeah and you’re just gonna keep getting that those first couple stares and you never get to actually see what’s what’s possible and I think there’s a lot of people that do that they work they take ayahuasca almost on a weekly basis I mean they do this bliss chasing and it and and you’re cheating yourself out of the true potential of these medicines which is to act as a guide and a teacher because I think that they are meant to lead you to a place where ultimately you don’t need them yeah you know that’s good yeah man we went on a on a on a we I hosted my own men’s retreat and we we did this you know a similar thing with psilocybin and you know it was like okay it’s gonna be a come-to-jesus moment okay we search our hearts and see what we need to let go of see what we need to embrace and walk moving forward you know I had friends that were suffering with opiate addiction and things like that so we went into it is like you know it’s in just a men’s retreat and a very solemn and did some chanting and you know fasting and stuff like that and it was a beautiful encounter it changed my life you know and I’m the one leading it and it changed my life you know I got some I got what I was looking for out of it right and meet you where you are but there was one friend who came and um he came later than everybody else he wasn’t in on the chanting he wasn’t in on the preparation on the fasting and vegetarian stuff that we did for a week or whatever and his experience was a lot different he was just wanting to hang out and listen to Pink Floyd and this kind of stuff you know which is cool if that’s what you want to do right but it was a little bit something deeper and I’ve experienced realms unimaginable right and then you know the golden teachers is what I did and I felt like I met these entities that I called the golden teachers that were like giving me that life of you and telling me what to do and asking me questions and stuff and it was profound changed my life um but this other guy you know after we were done it was hard to speak I don’t like what the hell happened what did we it was a rollercoaster we’re all experiencing the waves synced together but this other guy who came separately he’s like oh I’m gonna do it again I’m ready to do it next weekend and I’m like next weekend like it’s gonna take me three months four months or it was some time to unpack all of this stuff we must not have had the same experience and I Oh mine was deep to mount was like there’s no way there’s no way for you to want to just dive back in and it’s I think it’s irresponsible you know just to keep using it as a party drug and just to say that person did it the following weekend had a bad encounter it was very bad very bad wasn’t fun he was with friends who was listening to Marilyn Manson with the the doors open at their home with blaring the music so there’s the fear that the cops are coming he sat in a bathroom this crazy encounter so you definitely have to respect it you have to approach it with a level of respect mom one thing I was wanting to kind of piggyback off of as well when you’re talking about the school and you have to do the homework and I think all this stuff kind of ties in looking at the research out there about how it helps you deal with depression those of you who are dealing with depression there’s so many celebrities and relying in myself myself you deal with this depression and it can help you it gives you another perspective on life what really matters it you know the neuro chemistry what is it you know row Genesis as well redrawing brain cells all of this this crazy stuff it’s beautiful but there’s this notion that I’m exploring and I’m sure you can speak to it because you kind of just did in a case that I think that it can cause depression as well if you don’t do the work if you go and you touch heaven and you communicate with divine beings who tell you your life story and what you need to do and you go back to your mundane nine-to-five and you don’t put your hand to the plow you look back and and you just stuck at that nine-to-five when you know this these greater realms exist and you know that you were meant for something greater and you’re stuck at their job and you don’t do the work and you don’t make the phone calls if you don’t you know bring that stuff out it will send you into depression because you feel stuck have you experienced that or do you do you know where I’m coming from with that yeah yeah I it’s a really really beautiful point that you that you make there and and I think it is an important conversation you have because first of all just to just to take a couple steps back to what you’re saying right before that about your friend and his bad trip and then we’ll segue into the conversation about depression is if you again are looking at these things as relationships rather than substances think of it like I don’t know if you’re married but I am and you know if I look my wife or any woman as a as a resource as a tool Hey look at just look at how that cheapens the quality of that relationship just by relating to her that way oh oh you know she can bear me many children she washes my dishes and cleans my underwear and you know these types of things or or she’s something she’s something to to get my jollies off on she’s something to use for my own recreational purposes you can have that kind of intimacy that you can have that kind of sex but it’s shallow unfulfilled sex right and we can it’s the same thing as is with any relationship you can have that whether it’s plant medicines whether it’s the earth whether it’s your business your your money whether it’s God or whatever the relationship is you can choose to engage with it based on a utilitarian thing right this is how we look at pretty much everything you go to any National Forest on in America and it’s you know welcome to Dixie national forest land of many uses right we look at shit as what we did out of it this is the way we relate with everything in our culture rather than looking at things as a relationship for the sake of the relationship itself and valuing what can be had with that so Segway ting say going back into the conversation around depression absolutely all the things you touched on with the neuro chemistry micro dosing is a really great way especially if there’s anybody who’s who’s never worked at all with psychedelics and you’re dealing with depression or anxiety or things like that micro dosing is a great way to ease into that you can you know you’re not you’re not going to be trippin hard you’re taking small incremental doses over a period of time but the the backlash the double-edged sword of psychedelics is exactly what you’ve talked about right that you go in you have this profound experience you touch the face of God and then you you don’t integrate that into your being and you don’t allow that to permeate the way that you relate with life in the universe then what you get is a disillusioned old hippy right what you get is is somebody who just goes oh yeah you know it just produces this this sensation of you know sacredness and the sensation of whatever but it’s just a substance that that I tripped on and and so I think depression there’s a lot of different causes of depression but I think at its core depression is a symptom of disconnection right and I say this having dealt with depression quite a bit actually and even having depression come come back as a research in my life after after having a limited eliminated at for four years through plant medicines and in just this last year actually beginning of 2018 like I had depression just emerge in my life like like I hadn’t had in a long time so I think the depression can actually come from from a couple of different directions it can come from not integrating those things it can also come from having a deep dis integration like a destabilizing yeah because that’s what this is what plant medicines do is is they sort of deconstruct your your sense of self and most of the time it’s it’s at a level that you know that court sort of shakes you up but you put yourself back together in a new way and put it back together yeah but I’ve had experiences about three years ago I was in Colombia and an ayahuasca and I had is this like it took me apart in in the most merciless way like just absolute tore me apart I could not I had no memory of who I was I had no memory of like I was trying to remember my kids his names as try and really much trying really hard to hold on to my sense of self like I was terrified in retrospect I can see that the ayahuasca was trying to give me a gift but I was so scared my amygdala was kicking in so hard that’s trying to hold on and in a little in that experience I had this just encounter with the what I’ll call the void and there’s really no words to describe that but just this the emptiness and meaninglessness of the entire universe and the an experience with the aspect of my own non-existence Hey this exists but you don’t exist you are but you’re not and and that encounter shook me up left me in a state of I don’t know if it was depression so much it’s just well it was a lack of like the sense of purpose that had come from my previous identity was completely shredded I had no real sense of purpose and it was almost like he was even if you’re even with your purpose like don’t you the greater scheme like yeah I’m gonna make change I’m gonna help people they like yeah and and that that is a tremendous gift they have so much appreciation for it in retrospect but it was it was really rough and and I don’t think you know like my experience is those types of intense deconstructions don’t come initially for most people they don’t happen out of a joke usually the plants sort of reserve those for after you’ve been doing this for awhile and they’re like okay let me really let me really disassemble you I’ve been having these weird flashes of my own mortality you know and this weird fear will grip me even after touching eternity and and feeling like I went to the place that we go when we pass like this is what we look like you know color shape wisp all of these different stuff going on I feel like okay this is this is what eternity looks like you can’t even you know it doesn’t look like what we see now and I’m saying the physical reality and so I felt like I’m going in and coming to grips with with death almost right okay it’s not gonna be so bad this is where we came from we’re gonna return and everyone’s done it but now like I’m having these weird and it just comes in waves now of like my own mortality like you know you’re not going to matter you know in in a few years thirty years you’re not gonna matter it are you gonna be you’re gonna be forgotten 50 years maybe you know and and just the small things and one thing that really makes me remember that it makes me go into these things is I’m really big on nostalgia but like going back and remembering childhood stuff that doesn’t exist anymore right the place where you used to live is now another family’s live and there’s no trace that you were even there you know and you have these memories in these beautiful encounters but that’s only in here like there’s no you can’t share that with anybody maybe if you tell them in a story draw a picture or whatever but that doesn’t exist anymore and I’ll have dreams where I go visit childhood friends and those friends will they live in different houses and it doesn’t and it’s just this weird realm of your own mortality man and like where you’re gonna go when this happened when you leave and we’re all doing things to either take us out of our body or have these encounters with heaven and angels and and whatever but then the small things in life that we you know grassman just just this existence chocolates like all of these little Beautif rend ships you know yeah this time is running out as far as this encounter goes and it’s gonna look like something else people complain people have a hell of a time in this body but it’s so beautiful and it’s running out it’s kind of scary like it really is I don’t know if we get to do it again you know I talk to people who talk about reincarnating over and over and this is it I do expect something greater and something more beautiful on the other side but this this life this conversation man you know these people it’s beautiful it’s not mad you know what I’m saying and do you this is that part of what you’ve experienced like in the void as well you know in the course of my explorations and you know going going in the in the quote-unquote classroom and there’s a lot of things that have brought me to a point like like my my philosophy is number one spirituality is in my life in so much as its practical yeah it so much as it adds value right now I don’t give a shit if it’s true or not I give a shit whether or not it adds the most value for the most people right so look at things in terms of number one practicality and number two you know I I don’t disbelieve in a lot of things a lot of people talk about ascended masters and reincarnation and all these and there are experiences that I’ve had that good that could lend themselves towards giving credibility to those things but there are other possible explanations for for for those things as well and so I look at it and I go well if I can’t you know if it’s conjecture it’s not it’s something that I’ll consider and McCadden and and explore but I want to deal with the things that I can observe right what is observable for to me and and I’ve had observable experiences of something beyond this realm so that that to me is unquestionable but I also look at it and I go what if it’s not you know to me I think that it’s possible that part of the problem that we have in the world today is this effort that we make at transcendence right what we’re trying in all kinds of different ways to transcend something whether it’s through religion and and this idea that you know if you righteous enough or you do good enough you’re gonna transcend this earthly plane and get to heaven where it’s better there someday maybe whether it’s the technological advancement that we make through science and everything else that hey we’re gonna arrive at some singularity somewhere and when I look at the universe what I see I see the infinite I you know I people say do you believe in God and I say no I don’t think that something you can observe requires belief right to me it’s observable it’s an observable phenomenon whether you’re what if you tell a God or whatever like life is expressing itself in infinite forms in infinite variety and maybe that’s what I am as well right so maybe these experiences of myself beyond this body are not so much this spirit that comes from some other place down to this plane that I want to get back to maybe it’s all the same thing right like maybe this body is the empty space inside a clay vessel right and maybe or another analogy is maybe this body is a leaf and because I’ve had these experiences with with medicines where I zoomed out and I’m shown this aspect of myself that is beyond this body that is expressing through this body and so maybe my body is like a leaf on a branch and that branch is on a bigger branch and there’s a lot of branches that come off that branch and which explains why there are people that I feel a kinship with in this world right maybe they come off the same branch as me and that branch comes off a bigger branch and eventually comes off the trunk and the trunks got the roots and and there’s a whole fucking Grove you know that goes on for eternity I don’t know but but um maybe this body is just a leaf and maybe that explains more of what people call reincarnation is that leaf is gonna wither and fall to the ground but the leaf is not all that I am but it’s definitely an integral part of what I am right – so maybe there’s this something what I’ll call it my my mythical body right and I’ve seen it like I’ve been in ceremony I’ve looked at my wife and I’ve seen hers you know she’s my wife is she’s German but the the the mythical body that that I’ve seen in her is like this warrior got like this Celtic goddess right tattoos on one side of her face like badass bitch my wife is the sweetest she’s his tiny little Gordon girl and she’s the sweetest most nurturing woman but there’s this soul that inhabits her that is just you know beyond this earth and and I think that our ancestors were more connected with that aspect of themselves than we are yeah right and so whether or not there is these other realms that I’m going to go back to I I don’t know for me I look at it and I go whether whether there’s that whether there’s reincarnation whether I get just this one life and then I go live with Jesus forever or whether it’s kind of like what I just described like this is yet this is my body this is my life and then I return back to the earth and my consciousness you know expresses in some other way any way I look at it any way I slice it the answer is still the same live my life and and and maximize the gift that it is to be being breathed to be being you know my heart pumped and and to be experiencing like isn’t isn’t this may be the highest purpose and calling of all life is is for life to express and experiences itself you know you have to make the most out of whatever incarnation you have its I think my fear is the fact that what if this reality is better you know what if this is heaven and then we turn back where we wake up and we’re these you know bodies laying like in the matrix with all these bodies that are just tapped into the dream state what if this is like I want to be here I want to stay here if that’s what we’re going back to you know yeah anyway but no it just it just helps you just to make the most out of it man and help other people experience what you’ve experienced whether it’s through spirituality or through the psychedelics as well because I’m very big on the fact of you know what like I don’t care about your doctor in your theology unless it can it can help somebody you know if you can’t explain it to a child or whatever the case is like something practical that can make me a better father like what is your doctrine and you’re like that’s what I’m that’s what I’m into we’re gonna ask you I have a couple more questions is for you man we I was gonna ask you you know what does God fit into all this but I think we’re kind of you know touching on that throughout this whole thing but I want to ask you in in the fact that you came out of the Mormon Church and before we went live you told me you came out of it is into you know I’m saying polygamy and things like that the sect that you came out of you almost called it a cult but you stopped yourself you know yes well I said I wouldn’t quite call it a cult it was a it was a very fundamental widget okay so where does is there a disconnect a hundred percent did you have to abandon everything were there things that you were able to keep god do you see plant medicine maybe in the Bible or I don’t know how big you were on Scripture and things like that is that did you have to abandon all of it or does God still kind of fit into that worldview with how you see things now oh here’s here’s what’s interesting is I mean first of all when I when I left I was 18 when I left and I didn’t actually abandon the belief system I actually was quite convinced I was going to hell but I wanted to get out and see the world right so for the first 10 years of my life that’s kind of the space I was in I was actually afraid to let go of the beliefs that I was raised with but I was more of like a Jack Mormon and then my son was born and that was the first time I began to ask myself like what do I really believe what I want to teach him what is the life I want to give him know and that set me on sort of a path of questioning everything eventually putting those beliefs up on the shelf and being willing to consider the possibility that they weren’t true but then I get basically from that point I just came to a place of just like utter like it’s all bullshit like that’s the space I was in like holy cow I can’t believe that I was duped by all this bullshit for so long and then plant medicines and I think that that you know having lost that because because in spite of all all the BS that I was raised with one of the things that I’m really grateful for is that I had a mother who for whatever else you may or may not have done she really instilled in me a love for for God right and an appreciation for something beyond and so I think part of were the things that caused the pain and the depression and things for me in the past were feeling like that was all just a lie feeling disconnected from everything and then plant medicines sort of reawakened that and helped me see holy cow there is something beyond all of this and it’s been right there in front of my eyes like if my first experiences in Colombia with in Peru with the ayahuasca were it wasn’t like a realization it was a remembering it was like it was like remembering something and coming home to a place that I had been lost from and searching for all over the place and so there was that and then I had an experience with Silla Wasco which is a psilocybin combined with another medicine and I did a retreat in in Holland with that and that was where I always say that brought me back to Christ like and by that I mean you know that that helped me to understand Christ in a way that that worked for me yeah you know I think everybody gets to have their own relationship with that whatever that is but that helped me understand you know cuz I remember as a kid growing up going wait a minute like Jesus is my only begotten Son in whom I’m well pleased well what about me mother right and coming to realize this like what yeah and and that is that is in all of us it makes it more real it makes the hero’s journey more real it makes Jesus more real you know just verses he’s this you know ascended figure like you are him you know I’m seeing like you’re you’re going through that extent encounter as well you know yeah absolutely and this actually kind of ties back to some of the things we were saying a moment it goes like Rudolf Steiner who’s one of the you know Christian mystics from about a hundred and fifty years ago I think he said something that really stuck with me he was talking about Christ and he says you know most of us have this paradigm of Christ as being you know Christ’s on one end and Satan or Lucifer or whatever on the other end and he said you know another perspective is to understand first of all that you have on one end of the spectrum you have Lucifer which means the bearer of light on the other end of spectrum you have what he called ar-rahman which is sort of equivalent to Satan which is you know equivalent to Maya what the Hindus call Maya which is just the illusion this materialistic illusion that we live in so on the one hand you have Lucifer which is spiritual etheric you know the the light and on the other hand you have Satan or Armand or Maya which is this material illusion getting lost and getting stuck in this religion when he said Christ is here in the middle Christ is the meeting of those to do things right so it’s it’s not a is not opposites it’s a spectrum and balance is where you find that Christ self and and whether or not again whether or not that’s the truth or not it’s not something I bother with it but it is a perspective that I find value in and then as far as as far as like coming you know coming back to Christianity or or any of this exact I don’t really consider myself a Christian even though you know I just said that that really kind of brought me back to Christ like I think it was helping me to understand forgiveness and understand you know unconditional love yeah and recognizing that these are these are you know that love is not a it’s not a feeling or it’s not affection it’s not compassion it’s not this those are byproducts of love those are outcomes of love but recognizing that love is the recognition of myself or of God in what I see love is the coming home to myself in some way and so every judgment that I have on everything out there it is in some form or the other some expression of me and realizing that if I were you with the sum total of your experience is if I were consciousness though that was coming through the same womb as you with the same ancestry the same epigenetics as you the same experiences that happened to my mother well while she was carrying me in the womb the this everything that has come together and conspired shape you I would be exactly as you are because I am you you know and finding the forgiveness for others in that and for myself and realizing you know because I remember coming in that sermon I was in hell for two hours just in hell and thinking that you know there’s no way out of this and all of a sudden there was like this grace just reached in and lifted me out and I understood forgive and I came up and I was crying and I forgive you I forgive you I forgive you our speaker to myself that’s where it comes from right that’s where it originates that forgiveness for myself and finding compassion for all the things that I had been so hard on myself about and so for me to answer your question for me plant medicine was an experience that made me go oh shit I think I threw the baby out with the bathwater there’s ago you know and I went back and I’m going and I’m looking now if I really Testament I’m reading the words of Jesus in the New Testament I’m like dude this is deep like how did I miss this I grew up with this every day it was getting drilled in my heads and how did I miss it you know yeah so yeah yeah it shows you you know you get a you get a new appreciation for it and then if he existed or whatever the case is that story it’s not in vain like I get it now you know what I’m saying I get it well you know I don’t have to be a Christian I don’t have to be going to Sunday service or follow the rules and tenets of organized religion but I get Jesus I don’t get all this other stuff but I get Jesus I really do you know what I’m saying and that beautiful man going back to I got a couple more questions for you here just about psychedelics and things and wait before you before you jump to the next thing just one more thing on that subject and I think this would be this I find this immensely entertaining in the music so I’m sure your listeners well so more you know founded by Joseph Smith in a in the 1800’s 1830s when he organized the Mormon Church for the first time and you know there was visions and prophecies and all kinds of things and everybody in the early days of the church was having these visions well if you do your research what you find out is I like the probability the likelihood that Joseph Smith was using plant medicines spiking his sacrament wine with datura and and you know different psychedelics and producing visionary states in his followers and actually using these plant medicines to you know or create this this religion like I think the probability of that in my in my perspective is probably 100 percent and I think and a lot of people like well that’s you know there’s something really awful about that like all trading altering people’s state of consciousness without their knowledge and against their will and setting yourself up as a prophet and all of these things and I think that’s a conversation that could be had and and debated at length but for me here’s a perspective on that that when i zoom out and i look at what you know why would consciousness with God or the universe why would that happen the way that has if you look at the the evolution of religion right and you have like Catholicism for for a long time this very oppressive this is the way sort of thing and then you had sort of this enlightenment that comes along with Luther and Calvin and and the Reformation and then from that there was a series of smaller Reformation and then Mormonism was born in what was called the great Reformation in the early 1800s and Mormonism interestingly enough is that was the first first religion that I’m aware of where because one of the tenants one of the premises that Joseph Smith was was telling people was that you are gods in real right the first time people had heard that even though Jesus was fucking saying and know ye not that ye are gods Yeah right but to me I look at it and I see there’s sort of this evolution in the consciousness of humanity where rather than look rather than looking at Mormonism is like good bad right wrong and Catholicism and everything else I looked at it and I go it added value it have definitely added value for me it laid a foundation for me that has really blessed my life you know once I let goes all the bitterness about things that didn’t that weren’t so nice no even I can see the gift in those things you know so just I think that just completes that conversation yeah there’s a lot of people there you know and that’s kind of why this podcast exists as well like I said we have people who were coming out of different sects of Christianity and they’re embracing more of you know spiritual ideas they’re having their own spiritual awakening and they need somebody to kind of articulate what they’re experiencing and then on the other hand those whether they be really new-age or spiritual to kind of embrace Christ to look at this is Jesus figure what he brought to the table this you know the Scriptures like I’m saying the magic and beauty of the Bible in and of itself and like you I’m saying the laws of God or like I like to call the universal laws like you know what I’m saying like for me is there facts man I’ve based my life upon them at least all the beautiful stuff now there’s a lot of crazy stuff and I think it’s all esoteric and analogy and allegory as well you know and but but once you get the meaning of the allegory the meaning of the hero’s journey whatever apply that in your life and then you see the magic unfold so to really introduce people to that and not like you said throw the baby out with the bathwater some people have to like even if it’s just for it’s a period of time I’ve been lied to they told me this in the Bible and they just got to get away from it you know and I understand that you know what but some people they want to hang on to their faith and still be able to talk about their paranormal encounters to talk about the magic of a psilocybin encounter like to act like it didn’t happen because the religion or church doesn’t accept that conversation and for me act like well nope it didn’t change my life it didn’t help me I never had it because you don’t want me to talk about it and just being a beacon to be open and honest and that’s what everybody’s saying in the chat even about you as you just being authentic or whatever and that’s the beauty of because you can’t be authentic in religion in the Mormon Church and the Christian Church of the Catholic Church you can’t say well I meditate I do yoga I do they’re gonna get rid of you so just to create this new space that we’re in moving forward where we can be authentic and we can love Jesus and love psilocybin well we can love Buddha and love Jesus at the same time like you don’t have Stan and we’re like recreating this stuff and uh and and just being honest about it you don’t have to act like you don’t do something or like something you know yeah and I think I think there’s there’s nothing wrong with anywhere anybody chooses to be whether you whether you want to hold on to your faith whether you want to continue to identify this way whether you know it’s like what adds value for you like that’s it and let’s let you be you and relate to God and Jesus in the universe in a way that works for you and let me be me and as long as we’re not over here trying to force our views on each other you know we can’t used to do that what we’d say well Herman did you used to do that did you used to proselytize at all as the Mormon and try to convince people and win them over I didn’t the the you know the way I grew up and we were very much a fringe group you know mainstream Mormonism has a very active very proactive missionary program as I’m sure everybody knows has probably had some where they knock on your door at least once or twice and but it’s not something that that I ever did in fact because we were polygamists and polygamy is actually has been prosecuted and persecuted and illegal we I actually grew up sort of in fear both of my grandfather’s spent time in prison for just for being polygamists you know so it was we kind of kept to ourselves quite a bit yeah cuz that even doing that like there’s a big you know that changes your brain right you have to go and you have to convince people that you’re right versus just yeah hey I don’t care like this is what works for me I understand that works for you and I’m happy with it but coming from that religious mindset you have to like convince people like I’m right this is the right yeah yeah and I mean really the most authentic way to share the truth if you feel like you have it is to live it just shut your damn mouth and live it and let people look at you oh my god what is going on with this like holy cow I want to be like that and then and then maybe they come and ask you and what are you doing is working for you like I want some of that you know it’s really interesting because that’s how you know that’s how like you know st. Freemasonry that’s how they operate they don’t go around proselytizing hey you want to be a Mason fill out this card you know they don’t do that they they live their life and their rule motto is ask one to be one you have to see their life and see their fruit and see how they live and you have to ask them they don’t they can’t come to you hey son I tell you the secrets of universe you know they can’t do that you know it’s really interesting a couple more questions about this uh the plant medicines here just for my own [Music] understanding have you tried salvia leaves the salvia divinorum leaves not to extract what it was like a big thing here in the states where people are buying it at the head shop and losing control of their body but the leaves have seen seem really interesting me I’ve been intrigued with them for years but I don’t know how or where to get them but from documentaries and things like that look really interesting have you had experience with those I have minimal experience I’ll just tell you all my experience with salvia so my initial experiences were with the tincture and I think that if a person is going to work with salvia a tincture is is a good way to go like if you can’t get your hands on on actual sleeves themselves tincture is the most controlled way to dose yourself whatever you don’t smoke it I’ve done that too that was a terrifying experience you cannot control your dosage and salvia can take you anywhere from like a gentle meditative state to the full-blown you know out-of-body don’t know who I am I have also had experience with fresh leaves chewing them and that was in Costa Rica we organized a retreat several years ago and with some entrepreneurs and among other things we I have a some connections down there and they were able to get me some freshly grown salvia leaves which we chewed and that was actually really positively experience very very gentle as far as like tobacco using that connecting with the tobacco spirit so you have you tried hop a or repay yes which is with that you find that at ground you or helps you tap in a little bit better yes absolutely and there’s many many different types of hop a as you as you probably know so I like hot bay is a whole branch that you can actually explore I don’t I I don’t have much expertise in hop a I do use it sometimes in facilitating I find especially when somebody sometimes and I’ll use different hop base sometimes we use it’s very gentle halfway to sort of ground somebody who’s kind of having a hard time being in their body sometimes we use a more of a harsher hop a and and that can help people who like sometimes you get people that are very much in their head and they’re having a hard time getting out of their head and just getting into it and they’re trying to control their experience and so sometimes hockey will actually kind of help them give them a push so to speak yeah it’s been it’s been a positive experience for me if you go into it right because we’ve wood with friends over who like want to try it or whatever we’ll just do it in passing hanging out and you can feel it it’s cool whatever you may get lightheaded or something but if you do it in coach your eyes and go into the feeling especially being outside put your feet on the ground actually grounding when you do it in releasing because you’re gonna release you’re gonna drain you know so it’s there’s there’s out releasing there but if you go into it it makes it makes the experience way better time almost like you would say like you know going into it with intention like I’m not just gonna do it last thing I’m gonna do it and because I got my friend Chris here cuz I’ve done it and showed it to him and he did something he ordered it and he was doing it every day he’s in chat right now tobacco right so I mean I think that’s something that people gotta be aware of is is like it’s an addictive substance if you allow it to be and you know and you do you do get to choose again what kind of relationship are you gonna have with these things because it can you can cheapen it over time and I’ve been there you know like for me two bathrooms a backhoe micro dosing like is you just kind of you do it every day or well micro dressing is when you’re well with psilocybin and with most most micro dosing you’re doing it every few days alright because you build up temporary tolerance so you don’t want to do it every day because then you have to keep taking increasing amounts to get the same results and also it’s kind of like working out you know how you don’t want to work out same muscle every day you want to work it out and then you want to give her a chance to so you want to give you your neural pathways a chance to rewire and do the thing that they’re gonna do and I I don’t think I’ve been fact my experience has been with things like psilocybin I buy animals that apparently addictive so that’s anything my tendency has been to like take I allotted the less I want to do every time I go to do Alaska I only go when I’m really feeling called like when I feel like the ayahuasca say come their time and even then I’m like okay I go I could give myself up for this like it’s not something that I’m like oh yeah let’s go do something again like like we said earlier I think that people can get addicted to the Bliss chasing or you know sort of that gratification instant gratification and on any level it’s not good it took me a long time to figure that out but that instant fix OOP there it is you have to work for that gratification you have to work to build a a good business a good friendship a good relationship with your wife it takes work and so to have something that you really enjoy the feelings and emotions cuz you’re working hard to maintain it and to get there so anytime you just get a quick fix it’s never good and so it lasts to if it’s something that’s like that so and I’ll talk about my experiences and stuff too and I’ve only had a couple you know but they’ve been super impactful on all my life I’ve done the micro dosing and stuff as well but I always kind of give the disclaimer that I’m not I don’t want to I don’t want to promote it as far as like you need to do it you need to do it I feel like if it’s calling you you have to do it because that’s what that’s how I felt it was calling me I’m just watching stuff and I’m like ah maybe maybe not and finally it’s just I’m calling you watch these documentaries you got it’s like if it calls you you have to do it yeah I mean I always tell people number one don’t ever ever bucket list it like don’t ever do it because it’s like hey I want to have this experience before I die like that’s not a reason to do it I mean if you want to try it right but if it like you said if it’s if it’s calling and its really clear hey like if you know my advice to people let’s just trust yourself trust your own knowing just trust that because when you go into especially if it’s your first experience you you need to be able to go into it with that trust and and so that no matter what comes up if you go into it and you don’t have that trust with yourself and you start having a rough experience you’re just going to amplify the difficult experience because freaking out going oh they shouldn’t have done this oh this is really bad rather than be able to go okay this is freaking me out and I know this is where I’m supposed to be so there’s something here for me just look at it must be with it because that’s what makes it different like people say oh what about bad trips I’m like there are no bad trips there’s just trips where things come up that you didn’t want to look at and be with yeah that’s how a bad trip is man that’s you know my second encounter the first encounter I thought I was an expert I was in it was it was with psilocybin it was a I wouldn’t say was a micro dose I think I did like we did like two grams and we did it in a folk tank as well which was beautiful really philosophical looking over your life combing over your life this I got a lot of direction and and putting pieces together and writing plans down and stuff and it was beautiful and I went and I did interviews okay yeah if you want to do mushrooms yeah it called me and I did it you know I’m speaking on it as an expert a few months later we do another men’s retreat and we go out into the woods and we do the big when I was telling about why pretty much did a hero dose but I’m trying to help facilitate it with a friend of mine and I kind of already expected kind of the same thing this is how it feels this is what it looks like and took a hero dose and it was like five to seven grams or something and felt it pulling and I started feeling uneasy like what’s going on walk outside trying to get a breath of fresh air and then start seeing the webbing forming into particles and matter like oh lord I think we need to call the cops I think I said but I think this is poison you know all of these different things that come in and I go inside I look at my buddy he’s looking at me smile and he’s like man just gotta let go bro don’t fight it man it’s like yeah fighting it I feel I feel it pulling me out of my body I’m like I’m trying to hang on you know it’s like okay yeah the panic in okay let go sorry we’re in it now just let go and finally I’ll let go and you go in you’re going that roller coaster ride man and and it’s beautiful and it’s crazy like that um there’s a couple more questions I want to make sure I get to hear there’s some people in the chat here who’d you asking questions as we’re name and some of these different sure plant medicines and teachers someone’s wanting to know this was I believe Dumbledore’s or us asking about a bogus have you had any experience Dumbledore is a great boga yes I have I have had an experience with the program and it was it was one of the most difficult experiences in my life was very very challenging it was it was 18 hours of feeling like there was a meat grinder just grinding grinding my psyche for 18 hours and all I could do is just breathe you had to make sure you have to make yourself breathe like it wasn’t just like let me relax like I had would you conscious of each breath like okay it’s not like I was gonna stop breathing if I didn’t but it was it was more like it was like the only way for me to get through this is to be with it like like just to sit and go god I hope this is over that would just destroy me so the only thing I could do was just focus on each and every breath and just breathe in and breathe out and let it be what it was yeah and you know and a lot of people in fact I’m gonna be going down and doing another iboga experience this year and after coming out of that one so a lot of people come out of iboga and they have you know everybody generally speaking they all are in agreement that it’s very difficult very challenging but a lot of people come out of it with like a ton of clarity like the iboga spirit came to him or their higher self was just speaking to him really clearly and they were asking questions and getting like these really clear answers like you know I didn’t get any of that in my iboga journey it was literally it was just a really really difficult challenging experience and when I came out of it I mean I was in tears and I was like because there’s what they call the gray period the facilitators people and by the way I strongly strong want to emphasize this don’t do a boga by yourself don’t do it by yourself and don’t do it with somebody who doesn’t know what the hell we’re doing I can die you know I can recommend really good facilitator if you if anybody is interested in that but there’s a great period when you come out of that and you just I think you just feel like you have just been had the shit beat out of you inside and out and then you fall asleep at some point and you sleep for a long time and when you wake up from that you just feel really bright and clear and clean and refreshed so when I was in like that gray period like I was just in tears I was like I am never doing that again like ever like that was the worst experience of my life but coming out of it I also knew like it was really clear that the iboga was telling me I want you to come back so coming out of I was like no fucking way and then the next morning when I woke up I was like okay yeah I can see clearly now that you know this is part of a bigger process and I’m being called back but is it was it was rough yeah I really was Ralston wants to know about San Pedro your experiences with that and if it how it’s linked to treating addiction if any of that info well I first of all I think all all plant medicines actually have a tremendous amount of potential for treating addiction and iboga again if you’re dealing with addiction I would recommend looking into working with the iboga facilitator ayahuasca also dr. Gabor Matta is he’s an incredible incredible just dealing with addiction helping people deal with addiction understanding the root cause of addiction he works with ayahuasca with a lot of his patients so if you’re dealing with addiction of any kind plant medicines can be really supportive of that San Pedro definitely has the capacity to to support you in that but I think the essence of that really the the main thrust of the kind of support that you receive from the plant medicines is to two things one of them is that they have the capacity to introduce you to the root causes of your addiction right dr. Mattei says the opposite of addiction is not sobriety the opposite of addiction is connection right so plant medicines what they tend to do when you go in the classroom is take you and show you where you disconnected yourself where you made up this story that you’re not lovable that you’re not worthy that you’re this that you’re that and how you created that so you understand the constructs that you’ve created that that that have you reaching for something to substitute that addiction and also by the way it helps to really look at what it is you’re addicted to and what is that addiction providing for you so for me like tobacco cigarettes was something that that I’ve dealt with off and on for a better part of my life and really getting to the root of that involved having to look at like what is it that that was doing for me it was calming for me first of all the way I inhaled is not the way everybody inhales my way of inhaling would draw the smoke back so that would hit the back of my throat in a very specific spot and soothe my throat and this is because for most of my life I grew up feeling like I didn’t have a voice you know the way that I was raised and things I was raised with I made up the story that you know it wasn’t okay for me to speak my truth and that’s a journey that I had to go on so looking at what it is you’re doing what is alcohol doing for you I have a friend who was addicted to alcohol what he realizes he was using it as a social lubricant he wanted to be able to let his real self shine when he was around people and so being able to look at that and use different ways to get the same reason but the other thing that plant medicine does for you one of them is it shows you your stories and what you created the other thing that it does for you depending on the plant medicine is the purging energetically purging and sometimes physiologically purging so iboga is shown to actually physically address that like the physical cravings for heroin which is a really difficult one to to get past ayahuasca will will actually help resolve a lot of those physical urges as well but they also tend to purge out energetically like the energies that are feeding on your pain you know if you want to call entities or whatever it is you want to call in but whatever it is that’s feeding on that that’s kind of keeping that in place for you they can help purchase those now if you go back into your life and you reinsert yourself into the same kind of situations and scenarios that invited those things into your space in the first place they’ll come back in it’s kind of like you know getting surgery and having you know something removed having an infection removed and then you know you’re careless with the bandage and you let it get reinfected you know it’s a lot of people do that this is kind of a new one I think I’ve heard it in passing this is a word who here wants to know about you’re in info insight with datura and tox eeeh known as the Angels trumpets yeah so what I can tell you about it is it is not a plant to be fucked with by any stretch of the imagination be very very cautious and careful there are different aspects of that spoke Soto a as in some parts of South America they call it tow a brood Mencia angels trumpet that’s the version of it that they use in South America and some shamans will actually mix that in with their their ayahuasca Bruce so be very if you’re gonna go down and work with ayahuasca first of all be very very careful and very selective about who you choose to work with if you are good at this point right yelping things like that right well I would definitely check into reviews and pay attention to those but also like just really really use common sense and tune into your heart listen listen very carefully to your intuition and trust that intuition and don’t like just don’t go with any old you know somebody who’s like you get you if you get off the plane and nikitos and jump in a taxi I guarantee you that the taxi drivers gonna be like oh you’re here for I’ll ask it hasn’t you know don’t go with that guy but they’ll mix to–a into the bruise and a lot of them are doing it just because like to–a produces very realistic like with most plant medicines ayahuasca suicide most of it you know you might have visuals but is really obvious to you that those are not physical reality with datura you don’t have that ability to distinguish most of the time right so you you know you can’t tell a lot of times if what you’re seeing is really there or not you might be sitting there having a conversation with somebody and thinking they’re a real person and suddenly they’re not there happens a lot in America you have jimsonweed Jamestown’s that’s what’s the money in a common effect yeah yeah and that’s related to it’s from the same family and these are all nightshades very toxic by the way you take too much you can die and it’s very hard to dose properly I do not I don’t I don’t work with it I don’t have I haven’t ingested it to my knowledge it is something that like I have a very distinct feeling that I will be working with it at some point and I’m listening in very carefully for I know that it’s calling to me and I don’t know if that’s gonna be one-time deal or how that’s gonna work also there are different ways to work with it and the Torah has two different forget what the word is basically the the is the scientific term for it and I can’t think of it the compounds that are psychoactive the Torah has two of them and one of them can really really fuck with your sanity right and so if you work with people who really really know how to work with that plant they know how to administer it in a way that you get the one that you want the compound that you want and you don’t get the compound that you don’t want because a lot of people come out of experiences with datura having use of temporary but in some cases permanent psychosis yeah and most people especially people that do not respect the plant will come out of it having very very dark and disturbing you know this so that even if they they’re not dealt with psychosis or you know permanent psychological damage they are very traumatized by it it’s not a plant to mess with what about is there a difference that you can tell between psilocybin as far as like the golden teachers or the Hawaiians versus the Amanita muscaria is there a different level of potency I know there’s a different experience that kind of comes on with each strain but specifically the golden teachers is wood I’m used to that in the Hawaiians but I’m seeing online that you can actually order Amanita muscaria in in America it’s it’s illegal to order it so I’ve never tried it so moving forward with that what would you what would you with some advice you would give yes there’s a couple of threads the things that are coming up I think are good to touch on one of them is psilocybin and Amanita muscaria are actually two different mushrooms not even it’s different strains but they’re different types of psychoactive mushroom so I’m gonna need a muscaria is that little the little toadstool ones that you see in a lot of like sacred literature and and you know stuff like that those are the little red ones with the white dots on them and some of those by the way some of those are poisonous and some of them are not like you really need to know what you’re looking at don’t just go out and go oh there’s a there’s a red and white dot I think I’ll take that one home and make it pee out of it don’t do that I’m the Amanita muscaria is the the these shamans in Siberia there’s actually a for anybody who’s interested in looking it up I won’t go into detail but actually the conditions of Santa Claus and Christmas and all of that stuff actually stems from that mushroom and the the Sami people in Scandinavia and the reindeer and all of that kind of stuff reindeer will eat that mushroom they love it they’ll dig it up in the wintertime eat that shit up and then the shamans will drink the piss from the reindeer because that that mushroom if you take that mushroom itself it can have some really nasty side effects but if the reindeer eats it and then you drink fish you get all the buzz without side effects so AMA native muscaria tends to produce feelings of euphoria and sensations of flying I don’t I haven’t worked with AMA neuter muscaria that hasn’t called to me I’ve done a lot of research on that as far as psilocybin goes and and all these different strains so there’s cubensis there’s there’s golden teachers there’s I mean there’s literally yeah psilocybin grows all over the world and different strains have developed all over the world and I think that there are very subtle differences each one has slightly different personalities and I think you know that like I would I don’t think it’s really important right out of the gate what you start with I would suggest starting with something like golden teachers or or you know cubensis or something that you know has a really wide base of usage that you know you’re not going to have a difficult time with and and then as you get to working with it more you can actually start to find the the difference in the personalities and the subtleties ayahuasca incidentally because you know you’re talking about how these different plants have different things that they teach you in different personalities well there’s different strains of ayahuasca in fact there’s four main vines there’s the yellow vine black vine red vine and I think the the white vine right which are interestingly enough those are the four sacred colors of Native Americans all over the place but each one of these each one of these vines if you brew a different vine it would take you into different dimensions and so that like the shamans that I work with in Colombia you know they cut one of them they call it the the snake line because it takes you into the realm of snakes there’s another one they call it the Tiger the tiger vine and and my experience of it has been literally so what what they do the the people that I work with in Colombia is they use different brews of ayahuasca for different purposes so you’ll come in and I say you down there for a week you’ll come in and like the first ceremony and they’ll actually do daytime ceremonies which is not really common but for these people this is that the in gatineau people in in Colombia they actually do stew daytime ceremonies and so you’ll come in and you’ll have a daytime ceremony maybe in the beginning which is really beautiful and it kind of gets the process rolling for you and then you go in and you do a nighttime ceremony and they give you a different brew and it’s you can tell it’s different because it’s much thicker and more syrupy and and they give you a smaller cup the first one was this big ball and the second was this little ball but you’re tripping hard on that second one that you were on the first one and and you and you’re purging and there’s all kinds of shits coming out and they’re doing work on you like like scrape and shit out of your body and things like that and then they’ll give you them the next one they’ll give you a different cup again and that one’s much more of like it’s almost like the first one was scrubbing the shit out of you and this one’s rinsing you you know the first one was suds and soap and this one’s just rinsing and cleaning right so the bait and they really understand how to use these in what order to use it and the ayahuasca and if you let them explain it to you they’ll tell you that the ayahuasca is is telling them they have you know that they’re being spoken to by the plants and saying do this for this person do this for this person do this for this place how many people would would would you know go on a journey like that have you seen that and they take the first one and they’re like no that’s too much I’m not there’s no way I can finish this I got to go back and whether its proper you know process all the information that came to him or it just scared them or wasn’t what they were looking for and they just cut it off there at their first first I’ve seen a number of people who in fact there’s a there’s a gal that were really really good friends now she I took her down to Colombia several years ago this was her first experience with anything and you know she was a yoga teacher she was she was I had all kinds of things going on and she goes into in her first ceremony that first night like just scared the daylights out of her like she was like in the middle of the ceremony she’s like I’m gonna this isn’t for me I’m out of here guys like I’m gonna go like and she’s she would she thought she was not tripping and she’s watching everybody else tripped real hard and that was scaring her but I could like and I’m on the ayahuasca and the shamans on the ayahuasca and the shamans speaking to me and Spanish telling me what to say to her and we’re basically like okay if you want to go home tomorrow you go home tomorrow we’re not letting you leave here tonight because you have a lot of ayahuasca in your system and things could go really really she’s like oh no I’m not I’m fine we’re like yeah but you’re like we’re going has their own safety when I leave I can’t leave I’m stuck right that makes it worse but for her like what happened for me was like the ayahuasca or something started communicating with me and just so I sat down with her and just started connecting with her and listening to her and and I can’t even remember the conversation that we had but whatever what I do remember is like getting really clear guidance on what to say and insight and I was being shown kind of what’s going on under the surface that she’s not saying and being able to kind of help her calm down and when she came out of that she had a really deep and really profound experience and fast forward to today she actually works with plant medicine she’s one of the most she’s gone down and worked with tribes in Brazil she can tell you more about Hefei than anybody I know she’s a facilitator for for combo the Frog poison and she’s actually in training right now learning how to facilitate iboga so she was able to get past that initial hurdle changed her frickin life but a lot of people did a lot of people come into it and they’re like whoa this is not what I signed up for I’m out yeah and so what I do is when I facilitate first of all I’m really thorough about going through the process of making sure people are in the right space before we ever go into it having lots of conversations and creating really clear agreements and letting people know kay here’s the deal this is the space that we’re going to be in this is what’s going on and for the duration of this you know white here there’s like we’re usually we’re in a in a remote place where people aren’t going to run out the door and and be running down the street naked like we’re out in the wilderness or in the wild or somewhere like that and it gives people sort of the freedom to if they gotta have a little bit of freaked out moment and we have you know support like I’m not facilitating these things all by myself so there’s always somebody there keeping an eye on things there’s always somebody there who’s sober there’s always somebody there who’s who’s going to help like safety and support is the number one priority and if you’re going to be an effective facilitator like there’s a responsibility that you are taking on and I you know I take that really seriously so we usually do a really good job of helping people avoid getting into that situation in the first place but that I learned how to do that through a lot of trial and error and having people get in there and go whose shit Terence Mckenna kind of talks about the plant medicines and you know psilocybin he almost looks at it like them being like a walkie talkie like a communication device with that spirit or with that angel or whatever that being is or whatever like like it’s encoded in the DNA of that like hey if you want to communicate you have to this is how we’re gonna do it I can’t come down there I can’t manifest or whatever but take this thing and we can meet on a level playing field or you can come into my reality or whatever the case is it’s very interesting and you’re talking about like being able to kind of hear what the medicine was saying the teacher behind it kind of saying hey do this tell her this do that and that kind of I want to bring that in because I know that’s what you specialize in now right you’re doing these retreats and taking people into that as far as in your day to day whether it’s any type of spiritual retreats or anything you do that where there’s no medicines used as far as like do you do you know I was talking about achieving heightened states as a state of awareness through holotropic breathing kundalini yoga meditation those type of things do you do that at all and maybe in a group setting are you able to tap into those other spirits those teachers without having to you kind of remember or maybe even because there’s so much information that comes through sometimes it comes up later like oh I remember they said that you know doesn’t that type of deal do you have open lines of communication with those spirits those teachers those plants and and you are you able to facilitate it without go into that that state well yeah so so personally we do actually do a lot of stuff that doesn’t involve plant medicine like I said you know we’ll do wilderness retreats and expeditions and a lot of the things that we do are actually kind of helping people just just facilitating people diving into their own stuff going in we’re learning how to to connect with themselves you don’t need plant medicine really to go in and look at the stories and things you created and sometimes it helps to do those things first and then implant medicine as as a next step so you have a springboard yeah and in terms of all of that like when I first you know went to me I felt like it was really clear to me I’m and I remember the moment and the ceremony and everything where it happened like it was really clear I was in an ayahuasca ceremony and I was being told really clearly we want you to work with these plants this this particular type of plant we want you to start out with this particular type of plant we want you to start facilitating don’t go back to Germany like I was living in Germany at the time don’t go to Germany go straight to youth that and start doing the stuff there and and I actually had sort of an argument with the plants like no yeah and lost that argument so that’s kind of where that started and and in my process and you know you start working with the shamans down on Columbia and they were teaching a lot of things about how they work with the medicine and different things as as far as you know learning how to be a hollow bone is kind of the terminology that I’ll use which is I feel like that an effective facilitator your job as a facilitator is number one to hold a safe clear clean container to get out of your own way to get out of their way and to recognize one of the things that I recognized very early on is that you know I’m not I’m not the the one who’s doing the the healing I’m not the one doing like people’s ancestors were showing up people’s you know their guides and angels whatever whatever it was for them there were definitely that in fact there were times when I remember seeing somebody was in a really difficult place they were just you know struggling and tripping hard and and walking across the room like I gotta go help this person through this process and I get halfway across and that was like this unseen thing just stopped me right in the middle of it and said we got this go sit down I hate and I oh and I all of a sudden I became aware that there’s there’s other beings in in the room and I’m like and that’s why I started to learn to get present to those energies going into ceremony space and really creating an awareness for those energies another time I was in I was in Colombia and was working you know that the show was down there they were they were doing a ceremony they were in the maloca I had just got done with this really intense purging a lot of stuff cleaned up cleaning out puking my guts out thirsty just like I need a lot or any water and so I went into the maloca and it and in the maloca there working with somebody on on the ground they had this person laid out and they were had crystals and they had some stones and some things that they were doing and she was kind of doing her thing like you know shaking her her Leafs over the over the person and her daughter was standing there who she works with her daughter and they facilitate together certain times and the water was in there on the shelf behind him and I’m just I’m not even thinking about like I’m just like ah has just one water and hey grab the grab the water went into that space where they were working grab the water pour myself a cup and start start drinking it was my left hand start drinking the cup I get halfway through and I just felt something grab my hand like this like also the cup starts shaking and her daughter looks at me she looks right to my left like there’s somebody standing there looks at me again she reaches over and she takes the cup out of my hand like looking at me like you’re in trouble right and and my hand just went like this and I went into an armlock behind my back and I like I felt this determinate and walked me out of the maloca like these are so when I say that there’s experiences that I’ve had that are just unquestionable for me there’s something going on and it took me outside of the loka walking outside turned me in a circle three times and laid me down on the grass and it was really like the message was really clear respect the space were working here and and and it was it it was also like not not just respect to space it was also because if you are gonna be working with these plants if you’re gonna be doing this kind of work you need to get present to other things that are going on in the space besides just you know I’m so thirsty or whatever it is it’s going on for you you need to get a little bit more awareness in your space and so that that was like a lesson for me that really really drilled it in and so those kinds of experiences like I’m there’s no question for me that there that there’s something beyond the four senses that there’s energies there working with us or intelligences I don’t have any conjecture or stories or anything that I make up about what those are but I do it’s unquestionable to me that that it’s their concern and marijuana I know you say you’ve taught it a couple of times it just doesn’t agree well with you or whatever the case is you said I had those encounters as well like um I’m a smoke man childhood and teenage years I was smoking marijuana daily or whatever the case is and then got to a place where like it it started messing with me I’m making making it hard to breathe I turned pale hearts racing and just kind of messing with my body happened to me twice woke up when like the next day after having this panic attack that last four to three hours you know woke up the next day and felt different something you know the neurotransmitters got burnt out or something happened with that the marijuana and so every time I would smoke that would happen even just one hit would send me into this weird spell very scary and ended up like grow and that was like a thing that happened when I was 1516 growing up I eventually would talk to the people who would say yeah I can’t smoke weed it does just in my body I had to go to the hospital from smoking weed no it’s okay I’m not alone there’s other people and then with the internet you’re able to look up and say okay this other people have depersonalization you know after smoking marijuana they’d smoke every day but then this one time they smoked they every day feel like they’re stuck in a dream state and it happened to me when I was 15 took me a long time to I think it still had an effect on me even today like it things of what happened I’m 35 you know what happened when I was 15 smoking pot I don’t know whether I’m saying a young mind you were too mine wasn’t developed and doing all that or whatever burnt the neurotransmitters out so now when I guess when I smoked it it it has a certain type of effect on me I try to do it recently I had some friends come over and they were smoking and I tried to take a couple hits and and took a little bitty piece of a edible and are the same thing and like the weird the grinding sensation like I’m putting through the grinder and I’m having to make myself breathe and I’m turning pale and I’m throwing up and it was a bad like it was very scary I hated it I made the best out of it you know because I it was a life review because you feel like you’re gonna die it was like a bad trip you know on weed and uh you know and I’ll go online the next day and I read all of this different stuff for people of trying edibles and they’re having those experiences on edibles that I had from just smoking but it’s that that life review you feel like you’re gonna die and then y’all you automatically start thinking about you know what what I should have done better what I could’ve did but you having a life of you I might I you know my daughter my wife my family my career my friends like what can I do better so you you get up the next day with like a refreshed renewed vision like I got another chance at life I cheated death every day on the side of eternity is a blessing you know so there’s that gratitude that comes from just life in general hopefully that you know people eventually get that because gratitude is the best the you know is the best medicine really of approaching anything so did you ever have those kind of experiences like because it when you was explaining the thing was the iboga that had something very similar to that when you said marijuana didn’t really agree with you you just like the way it made you feel or did you have similar yeah I mean I tried marijuana twice and this was you know years I just tried it recreationally with you know some friends and this was before I’d ever done anything with with ayahuasca or before I woke up to anything and it just like the first time I tried it like I couldn’t speak and I didn’t like that so I was like I didn’t like the fact people would talk to me and I would I would all of a sudden like come back to the conversation and oh you didn’t know what they were talking about it couldn’t remember what they had just said you know I hated that the second time I tried it it actually I vomited as if it was like yeah drink drinking too much and you know throwing up and having a hangover and things like that and so I was like I asked I have since then I’ve used Stevie CDB oil you know very very sparingly you know I’ve used it when I was dealing with anxiety a while back and that I found that very helpful kind of help me deal with was there a high off of it because they say the CBD that most extracts don’t have the THC yeah this one had THC the problem right they say no I don’t get too high and you get it and you’re freakin blow it out of your mind yeah and it was it was it was not a negative experience it’s not something that I particularly enjoyed it’s not something I would do recreationally and I think and I think my thought is and this this may or may not be the case and it you know I think it’s worth considering my thought is is that a lot of people are abusing marijuana like marijuana again it’s a relationship with intelligence yeah yeah and if you’re if you’re using it as a means of escape or if you’re using it as a way to to cope with or to not have to cope with things you know you can do that you know and that’s what I was using tobacco for tobacco is a sacred plant Tabac was a very powerful giant they use it in ceremonies to for to create protection for cleansing for clearing tobacco is will cloak you okay and so and I had a I was a native guy Lakota guy that I did peyote with one time and he was talking about tobacco knishes he says tobacco this isn’t what causes cancer guys he says if you ever wondered why some people can sit and puff like a chimney and they live to be a hundred and ten and other people you know smoke a couple cigarettes a day and they die of lung cancer and the 25 he’s like it’s because of what tobacco is is among other things it’s an amplifier so Native people traditionally use tobacco for a couple things number one that the peace-pipe right what they would do actually is when they would come together in council or when when two people would meet especially people from from different tribes before anybody spoke a fucking word they would pull out the pipe light it smoke pass and the reason for that was because their understanding of it was the tobacco we’ll reveal if you’re not telling the truth right you in other words there’s consequences to not speaking truthfully once you’ve smoked tobacco right so that’s the first thing that you support they also use it for prayers because they believe that tobacco so they would actually burn pie you know either smoke it or burn it on is an incense to carry their prayers up to creator because they believe that you know that tobacco would carry that and the way this guy explained it is the back was an amplifier of your intention your intentions everything you think and say and speak is in some form of Prayer so if you are like energy in your body in your energetic field and you’re amplifying it with with tobacco then it’s going to eventually cause cancer or you know something destructive and on and if you are like the people who tend to live to be a hundred and ten and they’re smoking the pipe every day are usually the people that are going out there and sitting down if you know I mean this is kind of exaggerated imagery but they’re kind of sitting on their porch with her with every pipe and enjoying a little a little smoke and just enjoying and appreciating the day and that’s the energy that they’re putting out in the universe and that’s coming back to them you know so then this guy said he said I used to smoke cigarettes all the time and he says my grandmother told me you shouldn’t use the tobacco that way she says she says in the morning when the Sun comes up go sit down light up a cigarette as the Sun comes up greet the Sun give thanks to creator for all your blessings when the sun goes down she says go out light up another cigarette same thing gives thanks for a beautiful day or whatever that’s the kind of relationship you should have with tobacco and when he did that he said it totally changed his life in the way he related with me so you know I think you you you get to choose what your relationship is going to be but there are consequences to those choices yeah I abused the hell out of it and uh as a kid as a kid and it was my escape and now I have other things that are my escape right and more positive for me you know what I’m saying you can use it as an expand I mean you know it’s almost like the quick fix and you abuse anything you need more of it alcohol you know I’m saying sex like pornography you just have to have more and more in extreme and extreme extreme they’re the stuff you used to look at don’t do it for you anymore you need something else and so anytime there’s like a quick fix man it’s never the way to go and you got to work through your stuff on on every level and I think that’s the the you know I’m saying the main essence of even dealing with the plant medicines just work through your stuff and there’s a lot of things a lot of people a lot of spirits that will help you and want to help you and have your back one last question for you man because I noticed on your website there’s a lot of a lot of emphasis on the tribe aspect and so we’ve kind of formed our tribe and there’s a quote you know my vibe attracts my tribe and so there’s a lot of people who feel marginalized and like they’re all alone they don’t have nobody that believed in similar things that they do nobody to talk about their experiences or whatever that’s why I created the podcast and that’s why like outside of it we have community we have different apps on your phone well we just connect it with people and it’s beautiful they helps a lot of people how important is it for us to find a tribe or community of people to grow with oh man yeah this is this is a topic that is really near and dear to my heart and part of it is part of that is because of the way I grew up for for all of the you know the the negative aspects of my upbringing and for Matt one of the things that we did have more than most people was we had a community we had more of a sense of community more of a something that you belonged to that sense of belonging is I think that’s inherent in being human as part of you know the way we evolved I mean wolves wolves pack lion’s pride humans tribe and and we like to think that we have transcended our primitive origins I think we have a very call it a sweet home alabama’ syndrome right like the way we relate to ourselves and our where we like Oh oh my god I I was born in this podunk town in Alabama thank God I escaped from that and made it to New York and I’m so above all of that shit and I’m not you know this hillbilly and I changed my accent and everything when the reality is for us to really go to the next level as human beings whether we’re talking individually or collectively we get to go back to all the things that we’ve judged and made wrong and we get to remember who we are where we come from and and love those parts of ourselves and I I think that especially now more than ever when you look at the crises that we face you know Humanity is facing ecologically spiritually politically there’s this there’s all economically there’s so many things that I think are coming together to create almost like a perfect storm and I think that finding community finding people that you can belong to and finding a place on this earth that you belong to I think those things are critical you talked earlier earlier in the podcast you said something about you know going back to your childhood home and how those things are no longer you know that longing that you have is more it’s more than just some sort of psychological you know shit that you got to deal with you we really something yeah when you’re a kid like you knew every inch of your backyard the land I grew up on we had like 20 acres out near the mountains and land I grew up on like I knew every Rock every sagebrush I knew where are the ant hills were I was connected to that land you know children are inherently indigenous but we have this culture that really just chops you off at the root and there’s a lot of grief uncle just grief unprocessed grief that we have that’s not being dealt with not being processed not being felt and if it’s more important than we realize for us to start to reconnect back to those aspects of ourselves to our tribe to you know some some place on the earth and really establishing that connection and I think tribe is I think it’s gonna be actually an essential aspect of the way that humanity moves forward over the next hundred years is starting to recover sort of a what I would call a tribe seeds yeah there’s movements and scenes and things popping up that uh welcome people I mean and that’s that’s why I like again like taking advantage of the technology like the apps and things that connect us and we use discord and so anybody needs to prayer anybody needs just someone to talk to hello hey I’m not Bhama even though I feel alone I can just in this happen and you know I’m saying yes or whatever the case is I can talk to the local shaman he’s in discord hanging out you know yeah and and even besides everything you know like what I just talked about what you’re talking about there also is I found that and that’s one of the reasons why I started putting more of an emphasis on tribe and communities because I I found for me first of all when I went to Peru the first time did ayahuasca flip my world upside down was the most profound experience of my life up to that point and I came back to the little town in Germany where I was living and there was nobody like there was not a single soul that I could talk to that understood what was going on for me what I was going through there was I had nobody and that was really hard like naive and my wife she wasn’t in community you there’s you could still feel isolated right yeah and so like when I finally did discover other people who were on similar paths as me and discovering you know it was like oh my god what a breath of fresh air there’s somebody I can bounce things off of and I fine like a lot of people come they come for the transformation but they tend to stick around for the community yeah we’re hungry fast we need that that’s interesting so just because you have community doesn’t mean that you’re thriving in it or you’re growing together I mean all religions exist as a form of community the best way for like cult leaders is to get people is to welcome them in yes yes and tell them hey you know positive affirmations that they’ve never heard have been called stupid their whole life and I here’s this charismatic person welcoming them into community and just because it’s beyond their natural need for community cults feet on that natural need and and really like people ask me all the time like well you know what about cults and things like that for me cult cultivate culture all this these root words right comment and and the difference between a cult and a culture is in my in my perspective quite simply the ability to think and choose for yourself there you go yeah right but they’re not that much different cult is you know we’re afraid of people talk about tribalism as if it’s a negative thing and there is a dark side to tribalism there is it leads to feudalism it leads to taking sides it leads to you know my people are better than your people most native tribes the meaning of the name that they gave themselves it almost every tribe called themselves the people right and they had and so and then the names that they gave other tribes so when when the Europeans came in like we call we call him the Iroquois by nation well they call themselves the hota Shawnee Holden Holden of Shawnee that’s their name for themselves the people right we called him Iroquois which was an Algonquin word the Algonquin gave to the Iroquois because they were their enemies and it was like an insult right soon the Lakota they call themselves Lakota but the other tribes called them Sioux which was an insult Navajo they themselves a DNA DNA but Navajo was an insult so it’s like there is this aspect of tribalism where it’s like we’re the people and everybody else’s your snakes and grass but I think that rather than just dismissing tribalism off hand you know in one swipe because of those negative aspects and because of the way that sometimes we tend to get into a very narrow way of seeing things there are ways to offset that create your community create your tribe and then create tribal exchange programs you know where you go out and you spend a couple years when you come of age living with another community and trying on different points of view and you go on a walkabout and you come back to your community with you know years of different perspectives that augment an experiment like there’s that’s just one idea there’s a lot of ways that we could address this thing but I’m just saying tribalism is bad and and leads to cult mentality and all that shit let’s look at let’s look at the positive aspects of that and see because I think that a big part of what is missing in the world today it we’re gonna find those things to argue it we’re gonna go pick camps of Democrats and Republicans and and throw this an anti-type anyway yeah right so so rather than go okay let’s be globalists and and remove ourselves from that community and that thing that gives us a sense of belonging we’re hungry for that we’re craving that we miss that it’s like growing up without without a dad even if you never knew your dad they’re still a missing for you when you look at other people who have dads yeah like ah the same thing is there for us with tribe there’s a missing for us yeah we’re just not conscious to it yeah man I almost wanted to do a documentary on this or something but just to show people like looking at far as culture is concerned looking at like middle America like the white suburban family how disconnected they are from their neighbors and from their neighborhood or whatever looking at that and even around here whatever it’s kind of the same thing like I know who they are but there’s no it’s not community but I come from I come from the trailer park I come from the little hole-in-the-wall trailer park where we you’d walk around and everybody knew each other and you’d knock on somebody’s door if you needed bread or milk or whatever the case says and it was there was even though you wasn’t like this it was still a community you interacted with those people who live you know around the corner or whatever the case is looking at that that’s why I come from and then I I grew up on the on the reservation of the porch Creek Indians in port Alabama lived on the reservation for several years in the community and we had different housing projects as what they would call him but they were on the reservation and if we would go to each one and all the kids would hang out and the families knew each other and stuff and so now like the only glimpse we I really get into to that as far as what I’ve created and I’ve long I have that log in for that so I created with technology with the people around me that I that I can do get together you know periodically or whatever create it that way versus you know only experiencing it for East Christmas and Thanksgiving you know and you’ve come together with family and you travel and you’re there with each other versus like that being something that’s always there like if we look at you know I’m saying the Mexican people to Spanish people like even here in America whether they’re working or they have a goal together like there’s trailers with like and they all pay 25 dollars a month because they don’t come together pull their money live together that’s their community they drink they work they do their thing and that’s how they operate but they are a community they’re functioning in there and it’s working for them there’s building money sending money home spending money here but always got nice vehicles I guess that’s the community that grandmother usually lives with them right versus your grandmother’s in a home down the road you know if your grandmother lives with you and the family would live together and then being like really big in the hip hop as a kid and obsessed with black culture like I was really like I would we would walk through the hood for fun because it was like I got to kind of see what it looked like inside the the projects like like a movie I would watch I would watch gangster movies and be obsessed with that and obsessed with the music but I literally can go there and see the community that if you have one person on the corner having a cookout everybody’s invited and they’re drinking they’re playing dominoes they’re telling stories you know they are stay still have that community versus the suburban white family who just has them in their family on Christmas and Easter or Thanksgiving or whatever the case is I would like to even do a documentary just to show people I mean obviously if we look at it we can we can see if we zoom in but it is a huge disconnect when it comes to suburban white families or whatever the case is you know it’s something that’s lost and in that same way with thinking about my childhood friends and childhood homes and it doesn’t exist anymore I get this weird feeling when I Drive past trailer parks now I look at a trailer park and like man you know I missed the trailer park you know I miss I missed the community man do you know what I’m saying yeah yeah absolutely you know the land that I grew up on eventually got turned into neighborhoods over the last just it was raw land and then now it’s all curb and gutter lawns and McMansions and and there’s a there’s a real sadness for me featuring a loss down yeah yeah just a loss of of that connection to that to that land and also you know you talk about the community I mean I I lived in Costa Rica for almost a year and then I lived in Germany in that small town that my wife is from for a number of years six four years one time six years another time so yeah the community in Costa Rica that I lived in this was back in 2009 2010 it was a Moscow Sarika is very touristy and full of tourist attractions but there’s one area down there in the area called pet essentially dawn and its kind of secluded from the mountain ranges kind of cut it off from the rest of Costa Rica so unless you have a really good reason to go there’s not a lot of tourists but it’s a very agricultural area so I was living in this in this neighborhood in this community where you know if people it was cane sugar so there’s like this harvest season and when it’s harvest season money’s flowing people are at the cantina you know everybody’s drinking and have a good time and money’s flowing around the rest of the year money’s really tight in fact it’s so tight you go down to the little bodega at a little store that they have they called pool areas and they would you know you can buy cigarettes one at a time you they open up a pack of flour and repackage it into little single serve things because you can’t afford to buy the whole pack of flour right and that community and also Costa Rica did not have their infrastructure set up so there was no cell phone service there’s none of that stuff and it was there was a real community there like the downside of that was it was it was gossip central like everybody talked about everybody if I took yeah you know the whole town knew about it ten ten minutes later but especially because I was a gringo everybody was talking about me all the time they were making up shit about me that wasn’t even true but the flip side of that was like people were there for each other in a really real way and and everybody that you didn’t just walk into the Pope area and go grab your stuff and go you went in and you were greeting everybody and greeting with handshakes and kiss on the cheek and stopping and having a conversation and that was what was important yeah it’s that happens man and some of those I don’t know if it’s still in that neighborhood but like you get a glimpse of it if you’ve been removed you’re going to store and there’s a people talking to everybody and it makes you feel weird cuz you’re not connected like that anymore in this part just random like what having a conversation some people panic I do sometimes yeah the stranger trying to hold a conversation like oh wait we’re not used to that kind of intimacy you know and and they say good fences make good neighbors and I say I don’t know about I think good fences make it so you don’t have to deal with your shit yeah good fences make it so you don’t have to deal with the discomfort of being intimate intimate and close with somebody or having to open up and share or having to deal with you know the shadow your own shadow which is gonna come up if your interact with somebody over an extended period of time is guaranteed you know super powerful man um let me ask you this too just just in closing because you do these retreats and stuff and so you deal with a lot of entrepreneurs right and and in helping them people who are already successful is there a reason for that or is it is and and and I’m wondering is is it because of cost like someone who isn’t successful might not be able to pay or afford a trip like that because it you know they could be kind of pricey or is there a certain way of just helping people connect who are already established how does that work for you and in the pursuit so Anthea preneur is something that it just that’s kind of the direction that it evolved for me like those were the kind of people that started coming to like I worked with somebody and he went home and brought his friend and like it just there was just like this door that opened and these people started coming from that realm and it was like oh this is kind of a niche that sort of created itself but I we actually have done ceremonies and we did those actually for a very long time we did a pay what you can sort of format because I feel like and we still offer those from time to time I feel like it’s really important to acknowledge I mean the gift that I received that that we can receive from these plants is priceless money there’s no money that can can you know buy that really you know yeah I mean that the price nature that gets too big nose and in fact you know for me I had to it was it was a really challenging thing for me to to navigate and figure out because for a long time like I was out there doing medicine ceremonies and I was struggling to get by I couldn’t feed my family you know but I was just doing it like I was doing like you know pay which can I was in it’s a really typical heater mentality like I gotta go out and I gotta heal the world and save the world and my own expense and my family’s expense and everything else and it wasn’t till I had some health crises and some things that sort of kicked my ass that made me look at it know you know my body was littered when I looked at the messages of the body it was literally look you have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility to community and cosmos at the expense of yourself so I have but my daughter’s trying to get on here long enough go ahead and plug your your links man if somebody wants to go on the excursion with you and they want to look into it your website and all that good stuff going and plugging stuff real quick before we go here awesome thank you yeah so the website if you want to check that out is WWN vo printer comm so that’s en th EO p r e and e you are an theo printer calm and yeah you just you know check that out there’s a place that where you can click join our next adventure and you can submit your information and we get in touch we we go from there and other than that you know you can find me on Facebook I really actually haven’t been on Facebook that much these days but usually Facebook Instagram is a great way to find me and thank you so much great conversation conversation in the beginning and the end man just put both sides the tribe and the plant medicines man we they went in and some good good information so I enjoyed it man we’ll have to do it again sometime soon brother thank you so much for coming on awesome thank you so much as a pleasure I brother Levi dagmer ladies and gentlemen and his daughter there at the end good stuff this was like a master class which is like a plant medicine master class and that may be what I call this episode the plant medicine master class good stuff we went in on a lot of good stuff and especially with the tribe thing the tribe comes in it’s big too you know finding those people that you can resonate with finding your your your family you know those those people who your ride or die people in your community um one thing we mentioned I was talking about death a little bit enough I’ve brought that notion up as well sometimes I deal with it man you know just being honest and sometimes I just had to go to the scriptures and see what the scripture says about death and being absent from the body is present with the Lord and how he has prepared mansions and I have this understanding of death just because man just the beauty of this life even if you get a mansion I the mansion is cool it’s not my trailer it’s not my trailer park like I you know what I’m saying like it’s um man this life is so beautiful this I don’t think it’s in the middle on you guys but the chat you know everybody I’m looking at the chat and I know you guys from different places and we have different experiences together and I enjoy your company I enjoy your conversations I enjoy your family you know and then um for that not to exist I mean that happens some people you know only walk with you so far and they leave and you never hear from them again even that like yesterday man this song it comes in waves for me man you know it but it’s real it’s authentic um you know so everything you do has the last time and sometimes you don’t know it and I’m thinking let me just be open and honest man and I Adam here in the comment I don’t know like I guess I’m afraid of death you know I don’t want to die I’m enjoying this there’s always the last time and I’ve seen a mean at one point you and your friends went outside to play for the last time but none of you knew it it was the last time you didn’t know it I am thinking like you know just the little things man are so beautiful especially when you’ve been so deep your whole life it’s – it’s it’s the little things and you see the beauty and see God in everything and yesterday I was just thinking like asking my daughter like we’ve been doing the daddy-daughter dance every year probably the last four years now and it’s beautiful to go dance with your daughter my daughter’s growing up she’s like taller than me now so I’m gonna have to look up to her you know dancing you know all these little stuff it’s like and I asked her cuz I’m like well maybe she don’t want to go maybe she’s getting too old maybe I don’t want to go like I’m trying to you know rationalize everything then I asked her on on the way home I like I’m thinking about like do you want to go this year cuz just coming up you want to go to the daddy-daughter dance she’s like sure yeah and but then part of me was like you gotta go cuz you never you never know what’s gonna be the the last time you went like when was the last daddy-daughter dance well when she was some dad’s don’t even bring they don’t even they don’t even do it’s not important to them don’t even asked her the kids if they want to go to something like that you know maybe whatever it is but it’s just always like a last time you did something man when’s the last the last time you did it but you don’t know it doing it you just carry on didn’t you look up and in years of passed by it was the last time you talked to somebody I got um I got a bunch of friends like when I hung up the phone with you I didn’t know it was gonna be three years when you know and not not talking to you not out of anger or hurt or whatever just life time time is something that was time I’ll have its way with you there was all there’s always this lyric from from blindside the bandits lyric says time will change your heart but I’ll be waiting at the door steps with love time has a way of dealing with people hard hearted people time Hazzard time can harden your heart time can break your heart and I look at stability it’s big to me man it’s big to me as someone who’s coming up who didn’t have a lot of stability now I need it we need it you know I didn’t have a dad consistent in my life they were mom’s boyfriend’s coming in for a week two weeks three weeks two months we’d move in with them for a week we’d move out we was moving all the time we’d go to a school we pack up and go to another school because we moved to a new district with a new boyfriend there’s new people there was no stability I demand stability I need it I require it I know how important it is to my family to you guys we need stability in our lives and not just to be blown around by just whatever circumstances are whatever a pink people’s opinions are or whatever the case is or their their triggers are to really be able to stand for what you believe in and and have comfort in who you are in your future you know what I’m saying all of this stuff it makes sense to me now and it’s I don’t want to make you guys feel bad I hope I’m not trying to like articulate it so that you get what I’m saying when it comes to this stuff but I’m I appreciate the little things man I appreciate the little things in life and and I approach everything with an attitude of gratitude but doing that has maybe sent me in this sentimental state that I’m so sensitive maybe it’s just a certain time period maybe it’s a state of being that only asked for a little while but being appreciative of it I’m preciate ‘iv I know it sounds crazy I appreciate it with it of the taste of chocolate why well just think of that when you pass there was gonna be a time that you was the last time you ate chocolate you know the last time you watched a good movie the last time you were scared the last time you held your lover in your in in your arms there’s gonna be the last time there’s gonna be the last time you kiss your kid you tell your kid you love them like all of this man there’s gonna be the last time for it all I cherish every moment with everyone I try I try to make people laugh when I’m in their company I try to I try to ease that burden I try to listen I try to find ways that I can help you know and make their their experience a little bit more pleasing a little bit more easier there’s the last time for everything and if you think about it maybe it will freak you out maybe because I’m just so sensitive it just freaks me out at times man Alley Graham says brother by the way brother by the time we all take our final breath I think we’ll all be ready and the reward of this journey will continued a new one that’s a fear let’s address that you know of being ready that’s scary I can’t lie to you I picked up a dude the other day man and this and this made me think about it maybe this triggered it let’s just say this I went to the ATM I went to the ATM and I just set the story up maybe I gave somebody in the last twenty dollars data we had in the car like my ear was 20 bucks in the car and I there was a family with a sign at Walmart saying you know need gas money or food I didn’t have a chance to read the whole thing I just knew they were in need and I knew that was the $20 bill there passed him up I gave it to him my wife needs cash for school and stuff with my daughter and stuff like that I was like you know what I need to go over your plate that’s my wife I didn’t put that $20 bill there even though I gave it away you know sounds like let me go to the ATM get $20 and put it back in so my wife gets in and needs it it’s not there you know so I went to the ATM and I went and got 20 bucks out and I’m I seen this this black dude across the street he’s you know I don’t know I don’t know how to explain him he’s like a I don’t want to you know profile say like a thug but he look like I mean he’s just a black dude I don’t know it is in that subject to heal a random black guy walking down the street you know and I seen him he was across the street and I’m at the ATM and I turn around and he’s four feet away from me in between me and my car and I’m just come from the ATM in his Abril I need a ride I could have just got $20,000 of cash out I could have got a thousand a hundred in the dude and maybe this is what he does maybe walks up and down the road and waits for people to go to the ATM like and it took it just took me by surprise I’m like damn I got money in my pocket it’s only 20 bucks you know but he don’t know that he say man I need a ride I’m trying to get a job and so so he said man I ain’t on no bullshit man but I ain’t know no bullshit I’m trying to get a job and I just went for my interview I just need a ride around the corner he’s like trust me man I ain’t on no Bush I’m just thinking like I said I said bro out oh no man sorry man let’s go get in the car and I’m right I roll the windows down okay it makes a you lock me in my car just pull a pistol out of water you know it’s reality I’m I judge every situation like that I try I try my best to like be aware of my surroundings if if danger happens how we can I can protect my family or protect myself or my friends if danger happens and like crazy like that’s a weird thing to even uh you know I position myself in a certain way missus how I was raised I guess I don’t know but anyway I was a nervous man you know and and I couldn’t help but think of what if this dude pulls a pistol out you know in the car with me some random guy you know I told my wife and she freaked out anyway I took him where he needed to be and asked me where you know I thought he can get a job and all that kind stuff but um you know that could have been that could have been my last call rod that could have been my last time at the ATM therefore that being said Allie you say that I think the time we all breathe our last breath will be ready I don’t know I’m not gonna be ready I don’t think I’ll ever be ready some people and this is crazy y’all some people go to the grave kicking and screaming freaking out they don’t want to leave I don’t want to leave I don’t want it to be the last time I don’t want to kiss my wife for the last time it’s inevitable is it maybe we’ll carry on on the other side but being ready my wife spected me to go to the store we’ll see you’ve been ready if I if I didn’t return home because I got shot you know or you get in your car to go you know God forbid pick your daughter up from school and you’re getting a wreck and where’s dad he never showed up was she ready when we got out when I dropped off this morning I told her I loved her that you know was the last time and this is cryptic or whatever but it’s reality you know you don’t know when the last time is I don’t think anybody’s ready for the last we don’t we can’t and I say that because we can’t prepare for our deaths like we’d like to we’d like to I live life like I’m prepared I try to live life with that much gratitude and Thanksgiving and walking in the spirit and trying to be open and honest and helping people like I’m I try to stay prepared that way and so every minute that I have now is a blessing I should have been dead a long time ago I should have been dead so every minute on this side of eternity those near-death experience has changed people for a reason they thought it was over though psilocybin encounters those mushroom encounters they changed people for a reason but did you die thought you were in the look I’m telling you it’s the little things the little things I don’t want it to be the last time man I don’t I’m sorry I don’t know if that’s weak or I’m afraid to domina no it’s just you’re not gonna get it you don’t get you know yes this is it I enjoy my life I can save you if you’re depressed and you’re in you just look at life like it’s sucks and you don’t care you’re just in a situation you want to change yeah take me out let me try it again it’s got to be better on the other side I I’m in a realm of what everything put together I really enjoy life all of it all of it they’re good I’ve moved myself into a psychological position why I enjoyed the bad stuff I enjoy my dirt I enjoy learning from I enjoy my demons I enjoyed learning from them I thank God that he sent them to teach me I enjoy the demons enjoy it all this existence because there’s gonna be a realm where those demons ain’t gonna exist those angels ain’t ain’t gonna exist that they’re not even in the picture anymore you’re in another realm it’s not this realm again of fear what if what if it’s not as good as this realm what if it’s not as good we’re gonna find out we will find out that’s for sure it’s inevitable did let me just tie this into the whole death is inevitable thing there’s a friend of mine who takes offense to that he does not believe that Illuminati Congo does not accept physical death he believes in physical immortality that you can live forever and the only way that you i it’s because you’ve accepted it you’ve been told that hey there comes a time when you get this age and your body deteriorate will deteriorate you’ve accepted it you believe it so you die he’s on this weird kick with that you do not die physical death maybe looking at some of the Yogi’s and some of the people who have lived life of meditation and they’ve preserved their bodies and ascended into rainbow body and all of these different things that you get to live forever of physical immortality so he’s in that you know what what if that means being on earth the whole time or continuing I don’t know his his belief but he believes that it’s a choice to die you know and I’m reminding I’m reminded of him believing that because yesterday my family they bought me a DVD set of a television show from the 80s called tales from the darkside and it’s just a bunch of short stories like short it’s a TV series but they’re all just different or whatever like like Twilight Zone or something so we’ve been watching that together as a family so when we watched yesterday it’s pretty cool the guy comes on and it’s a family sitting around a table or some it’s a mom and a son and grandpa just died and they’re eating like we’re gonna miss a man he was a good man and it’s about grandpa grandpa comes walking down the stairs and he looks a little they got a bunch of makeup on him he looks a little old or whatever he sits down with them what are you looking at I walked my breakfast like grandpa what are you doing here you died I didn’t die grandpa you you died last night no I didn’t don’t tell me that are you a ghost grandpa what are you a apparition I’m me and he’s like he’s there eating breakfast with them and they’re freaking out like grandpa you’re dead I’m not dead y’all want me to be dead but I’m not dead I’m not dead yet I would know what if I was dead they’re eating breakfast too like what how was a grandpa you know here with us he died last night so they’re trying to convince grandpa that he’s dead the pastor comes over the preacher the next day or just maybe it was a couple hours later and the preacher comes there and he’s talking with grandpa but by this time a few hours of grandpa starting to deteriorate a little bit he’s starting to uh you know his skin is looking a little bit more sagging and droopy and bags under the eyes and he’s changing color his hair is falling out a little bit and the preachers like you know grandpa so-and-so you died last night and you’re just stubborn you won’t you won’t believe it he’s like no I don’t believe I didn’t die why y’all telling me y’all want me to die and I’m I’m alive as I’ve ever been and he’s there he can claim himself it’s really grandpa but he’s deteriorating and everybody’s trying to tell him he’s dead but he won’t believe it he’s like nope I’m not dead what you know that’s a whole realm of thinking about ghosts and spirits that are trapped on this plane of existence and they don’t know they’ve died like the sixth sense the movie sixth sense you know he didn’t know that he died spoiler alert if you haven’t seen it yet you’re you know but still watch it it’s a great movie the you know spirits that don’t know that they’ve died and you can help them cross over by like hey it’s okay it’s okay hopefully I won’t be one of them you know I don’t want to die I don’t I want to stay here that I’m just gonna linger I’m just feeling connection with you people I’m gonna be with y’all you know who knows but uh you know and then it progresses where the next you know hours later or the next day whatever they’re having dinner with well the kid goes to see a fortune-teller to try to see if she can help him with with Grandpa crossing over and she’s I knew you Grandpop up of a bunch she gives them this elixir or whatever anyway goes back home grandpa’s like looking bad he looks like a walking dead he looks better than a walking dead zombie and this was back in the 80s as far as like the makeup and the costume and stuff it looks looks like a zombie they’re sitting there eating and she gave him this um handkerchief with this special powder in it and she shows that he showed it to his mom said this is what she gave me to give to him she’s you’ve been fooled that fortune-teller was a fraud that’s just black pepper that’s just black pepper no no she said it was a special elixir gave it to uh to Grandpa grandpa takes two he has to wipe his face or something and he gives him the handkerchief he opens it up he’s like what’s this in here and it’s all the black it’s literally black pepper he goes to sneeze huh huh but Jew into the into the napkin and his nose comes off and he looks in it he’s okay I guess I really am dead he just stands up and like walks back upstairs and it ends and he could see that the nose is anyways there’s all these short stories but and it just reminded me either watching that you know Illuminati Congo the only way you die is if you believe that you die you can live forever you have you know the whole thing with Christ man he’s defeated death he has given you everlasting life like those are the hopes that we have in Christ like we’re gonna live forever we’re gonna be conscious of eternity it’s gonna be something beautiful you know you have everlasting life it lasts forever you know very very interesting just to just to look at all of these different angles and see how it fits in but life is precious life is short there’s a lie I believe it’s a lie the whole past life regression and what were you in the second life and what are you going to be when you leave here I have friends who struggle with depression I have friends who struggle with suicide who entertained the idea of suicide I used when I was a teenager depressed teenager I fantasized about how I would kill myself and all of these different things right I have friends who do that now and it bothers me and when it with the whole reincarnation and past life thing comes into play they just feel like it’s an it’s a choice and they just get to do it again like yep it’s uh you know I didn’t really I did my best but I’m gonna go ahead and end it and this mean I’ve been seeing people posting memes about suicide and now like almost like suicide is an option or a joke there’s a meme of this baby who was just born and he’s looking at the camera and he looks mad and that’s a little newborn baby in operating room you know giving birth and he’s looking mad and the meme says uh you know you know when you commit suicide but then reincarnate five minutes later he’s all mad looking I wanted to leave here you know everybody’s laughing making jokes and sharing it like suicides not funny man death death isn’t funny you know it’s inevitable I don’t wouldn’t say it’s it’s funny so did it just begins to be this thing where you get to try again I don’t know that you do and I don’t think any of us do know we can entertain the idea we can get into past life suggestions versus a regression a suggested memory implanted memory and something we discussed in the school of the Mystics the other night I think it was Adam Star seen here in a chat but he mentioned the fact that all of these type of regressions that you’re getting these past lives what if it’s just you’re tapping into your DNA and you’re tapping into your ancestral line it’s not you were a king in Egypt but if your great great great great great grandfather was what if you are 40 what if it wasn’t you who was a fortune-teller in Lemuria what if someone in your ancestral line was and you’re tapping into that DNA and those memories are coming back that way what if that’s what’s happening I personally would uh you know give that a little bit more credence than I would the fact that you know you you have these part these multiple lives and once you get here you you know you finish this one you get that another chance to get it right or you didn’t ascend and so you can just to keep repeating it over and over like stuck in a loop until you make the right decisions or whatever in in other lives you better get it right this life don’t even don’t try I don’t even like why why not like get it right this life that’s what if you are conscious that you can get it right do it we’re all on a level playing field well Gandhi he’s one who’s ascended okay or you’re conscious that there is an ascension you’re conscious that you could be Gandhi you can overcome your trials and your tribulations and you can respond with with peace and grace to those situations then do it that’s that’s the that’s the alchemical process you’re aware of it good I mean look at the matrix people they’re not even aware that they’re asleep you’re aware that you’re you are woke and you’re aware that there are there is a such thing as a sentient in people and there’s levels to this didn’t make the decisions a sinned don’t be bound I’ll be held back ascend whatever it is and whatever that means be the best person that you can be be the best you that you can be without regrets without second-guessing who you are you’re calling Ally and the chat says I’m with that with the blood remembrance 100 the Bible says that the you know the life is in the blood the life is in the blood the blood remembrance DNA home saw says once we wake up you will be surprised we have more work to do you’ll be one of the you’ll be one of the ones that keeps on going yes death is a choice that you know that song Tim McGraw live like you’re dying you don’t know you’re not promised tomorrow it’s not to scare you but it’s like make the best of every situation there’s gonna be a time when it’s the last time you held your wife the last time you kissed your daughter the last time you or let’s flip it the last time you cuss somebody out the last time that you smoked crack you know what I’m saying all the bad stuff the last time you robbed somebody the last time you beat your wife the last time that you stole like obviously in this life like there was I have last times for a lot of that stuff but not smoking crack but uh you know the last time I smoked weed the last time I did this and did that so I have a place to go to but get it right let it be the last time you did something beautiful the last time you paid for somebody’s a random person’s bill at a you know at the restaurant the last time you helped an old lady across the road the last time you went and visited the homeless do you remember or in the chat alley the last time you cut homeless people’s hair alley used to set up at events and give homeless people haircuts because 50 people’s hair and were in a day giving homeless people haircuts tightening them up it was you know it’s been some years there was the last time you did that not to not to grieve you know make you grieve over it maybe it’s for good reason there’s new things that come from that but literally there was the last time man the last time so shout out to all the the new listeners that we have every time and you know it’s we just got somebody here in chats green-and-white Jamie says this channel must be good because I’ve seen Jordan Maxwell on here a few times yeah every time we do a Jordan Maxwell interview and maybe that’s the reason I do the Jordan Maxwell interviews is because it helps me kind of get out there to a wider audience and he has a huge fan base so welcome Jamie there’s a lot of more interesting guests and some more interesting topics that we cover as well so yeah welcome to the fold Jamie said that they’d have liked and subscribed because of the Jordan Maxwell interviews there you go it’s working networking networking is working the net is working the web and nets come on now we talk about the element of Z of words somebody else is going in on some words while ago okay it was Adam starseed who said you know how we some what colt is you know you have to work Colt in culture and agriculture you know and all this stuff and he said well you know what about the word a colt you know the word cult coming you know is in a cult as well so kind of interesting home sauce says or you can exist twice or thrice you’re limited how do you know which one you want you know even that though even like getting another chance at this life like I feel like you’ll forget everything I’ll forget my wife I’ll forget my daughter I forget who home sauce is I forget the love I have from my friends here that I’ve built with like I don’t want to forget man so maybe in eternity I get to remember what I did on earth like Earth was a testing ground maybe we’ll get to maybe our spirits get to commune in the afterlife I’d rather that didn’t forget about all of this you know who knows man I don’t I don’t think any of us do we have a glimpses you know and even and even Levi speaking about all of these different psilocybin and ayahuasca and it Bolger and Salvi and all these different you know plant teachers and medicines he’s you don’t know what it is but it’s something something’s there those ghosts they’re here for a reason whether they’re just like I’ve talked about loops playing over and over a lot of time ghosts and stuff we see like as people who have died traumatically or died instantly and don’t know they’re dead or like it’s left it was so traumatic that it burnt an imprint of or a recording of the way that they died that just plays on loop I mean a lot of how people hanging themselves or somebody it’s always something scary usually you know my wife went to New Orleans on a ghost tour and they were saying that this woman was pushed off of a or died or whatever at this particular house my wife claims that she’s seen this girl jump off of the UH off of this building you know and she’s seen it happening isn’t a guy but the guy was explaining and happening another way and she’s like I feel like I just seen this happen you know and it’s almost like a loop or recording that stuck dumbledore says what do you think about reptilian possession I don’t know about reptilian possession I mean but you know deep demonic possession you know maybe that’s what you’re talking about the same thing or just you know terminology or whatever but yeah possession man you know depression you know who are those entities what what are they I’ll do they only exist in this realm or is there just a dimension that you cross over to when we cross over do we stay on earth and just live in a another density our spirits just kind of leave this body and move on to higher density and we’re still here operating watching over helping you know ancestral spirits guarding over your ancestral line wanting to make contact wanting to help hoping for the best you know the Bible talks about the great cloud of witnesses that are watching over us you know Jesus had interactions with them he would go up on the mountains and they would appear to him his predecessors they would physically appear and show up and communicate with him something something something happens something’s there there is a hope right that that we get to continue this life and you know maybe they look the same maybe it really was their spirits and maybe that’s what happens to us we talked about it in school of mystics again last week where you know maybe though they are ascended masters and those who have ascended and kind of completed their karmic cycle if you will then they get to kind of claim their self in the spirit realm and come back and forth and deal with people SS teachers you know we’re talking about possession you have ascended masters who were teachers who have access to you from the other side from the grave you can contact them they can contact you these are ascended masters what about the pedophiles what about the pedophile that died in your house does he have the ability to contact you in your sleep what about the Incubus what about the succubus do they have power to contact you in your sleep to mess with you just because you’ve crossed over just because someone’s died doesn’t mean you were a good person on the other side it doesn’t mean you were a good person just because you’ve ascending you you live there now I mean even old people man we look at old people to something tinder and I look at this grandmother look at her these old people like somebody’s some of these old people were boy they did some stuff in their life but not at their old and feeble and they can’t care for themselves now they’re cute or they’re respectable or they are elder just because you’re old don’t mean you have wisdom and on the other hand little kids are gonna be old people one day too you know little babies and stuff like the innocence is gonna be you know taking man that’s weird when was the LAT when was the time your innocence was stolen some of y’all can go back to the moment when this happened to me when that happened to me and then this and then when I seen this and it all you know I was different I was changed when that happened and that may seem negative let’s flip it what about the good things when you came into faith when you had any psilocybin encounter when you met Christ whatever you have those and you have those moments to where you get a fresh start you get a reset button you get to push the reset button start over born again can a man be born again you cannot enter Heaven unless you’re born again you have to be born again you have those times where things are renewed so man life is is a trip it’s a it’s a beautiful experience if we let it be you know you can go back and look at yourself years ago and how you interpreted things and how you looked at life and viewed others viewed your parents viewed God viewed the church or whatever and now maybe through wisdom you’re able to kind of step back and that’s what that’s what God does that’s what psilocybin does that’s what Jesus does you’re able to kind of set back and just kind of revote reevaluate things with almost like not having a dog in the fight because we’re talking about like going through and there is a loving blissful entity almost that’s guiding you through life or through the psilocybin encounters or whatever you feel like you’re connected with God or angels that are kind of showing you giving you that that are what is that a Timmy Timmy turn or whatever the you know send a little Timmy and Scrooge or whatever where the spirits visited him and showed him like what might have been or what could have been or what you caused and therefore you get to kind of make the changes based off of the vision that you’ve seen or the information that you received and so you’re able to kind of apply that to your life and and make the best out of it I encourage you to do that make the best of every day so Dumbledore says I have faint memories of being on a higher plane here on earth and using living things as sustenance like food for spirits could have been just a dream man when you when you achieve Tiny Tim Timmy Turner he was wishing for a burner when you achieve higher states of consciousness man through meditation you experience like information is slippery information is slippery you can hold on to stuff grab something you know it’s almost like if you’re like you know those things at the mall then leave staff game shows like this where like the wind’s blowing well some of them they would have money in there and the wind’s blowing money everywhere and you’re just trying to like whatever you grab you get the key you’re trying to grab dollars $10 you hold it to your chest you like put it in your pockets you got to hold it and then it turned it off and when it opens up everything that you held on to you get to keep the psychedelic realm works just like that the dream state receiving visions in your dreams not even on psychedelics I mean that’s the biggest you know blast of DMT you’re gonna get is in your dream state you know when you go to sleep your third eye your brain releases DMT that blows you into the dream state to receive visions and this is how God at least if we believe the Bible this is how God speaks to us in the we visions of the night and you get to grab some of it you can train yourself lucid dreaming train yourself for how to grab the division grab the principal grab that face who is this I’ve seen that same person in my dream let me go talk to him just to introduce myself I don’t know if anything is gonna come of it it’s a synchronicity I played those numbers try it see what happens but just grab on cuz it’s so slippery and you get to come out so I got this this this and this okay but even if you get one thing per night per week per month per year you’re able to grab something out of the dream state that’s something or someone is trying to communicate with you God your angels your higher self trying to communicate with you I and I got it I’m gonna try it hey try this okay don’t do it okay have those dreams where you were like contemplating doing something stupid and you had a nightmare up not doing that yeah I got to feel the grief of what it feels like if I do that that’s a big Jesus we can go on for hours we’re right at three hours now I can just keep going those are scary because you feel you have those dreams where like you feel like you did something and you can’t turn back from whether you dying in your dream or you’re being chased by monsters or I mean I would have nightmares of me hurting someone killing somebody and then I’m on a run from law with my family I like we can’t get caught now you know I’m going to jail forever you know and and I feel like it’s real you know and I’m like yeah and I’m like panicking in my dream like I can’t let him get me like you know and just running and running running you feel you wake up like yeah that was a dream I’m glad I’m glad that was a dream so but I got to see what it felt like that even crosses into the psychic good psychic psychedelic experiment experience where what if you’re not really talking to elves what if you’re not meeting angels what if it’s your mind playing tricks on you what if you created this realm in these people in these little beings and whoever you communicated the golden teachers Trucy go what if you’re just speaking to your own conscious and you already knew this stuff and you create because I wanted it I wanted an encounter what if I created the encounter for myself and then when I tapped in I just got what I was looking for I mean what if what if this reality is that we signed agreements to come here okay I’m gonna do that I’m gonna do this I’m gonna do that and I’m gonna do it and I’m I know what it’s gonna help me in the end it’s gonna produce something beautiful in me all the stuff that I’m going with going through it’s gonna produce something beautiful and I’m ready to do it and you you signed up to come to life and you already know you’ve created it the simulation theory is some would say we just living out of program simulation that you created you created it so the entities the angels the elves the aliens whoever they are you’re communicating with in these other realms what if they’re not real what if you created them and they’re speaking to you and you’re responding back to them like you already know what they’re gonna tell you no I’m saying you had this conversation but when you come back you catch your breath the next day you really whether they were real to work whether they weren’t you still respond like they were and you live your life accordingly did you just meet the the tree elves who live in the trees in and hide under the mushrooms did you meet them in that dream realm and that in that psilocybin encounter you don’t know I don’t think any of us know it’s slippery but you live your life in such a way that you did you just kind of end out on a softer note with that there was a couple interviews that we did and I’ve talked about this with me and my buddy drew guy were shout out to Drew we would like you know how we would like you know do voices and impersonations and stuff and he impersonates Lou Engel which is a Christian minister who has a event that he puts on called called the call where they fill up stadiums to come together for prayer and if they if they can get enough people praying then they can change begin to end abortion if they get at the same space and they do this every year to make a lot of money tickets are pretty expensive so anyway drew is really good at impersonating Lou Engel and the little guy was on my show from from the Jesus camp documentary about it two years ago now he when he was a kid Lou Engel Lou Engel came to their church and spoke and he inspired this kid you know and he probably listens to his sermons and watches his videos and maybe went to the call you know drew does a perfect Lou Engel impression I got drew to call in and we’re gonna just joke with them I get drew to call and say hey this is Louie you know and uh but didn’t tell him it’s a joke you know drew calls in talks to the kid hey this is Lou Engel you gotta call in on your life young man he said I don’t sound nothing like them but drew does you can go back and watch the footage the kids face lights up Lou Lou oh man I can’t believe you called Lou your work your ministry has inspired me Lou you changed my life you changed my life Lou oh my god I can’t believe you’re on the phone this is such a blessing Lou bless you man thank you for everything you’ve done and it kind of like well oh we’re too far in it like we’re too far into the gag like you can’t tell them it’s hey bro it’s not Lou ingo this is my friend drew he oh you made a fool of me whatever the case is right so I think drew just went with even though when doing these characters we like to kind of go far left and then bring it back home or whatever so he’s like hey hold on I mean I’m in the McDonald’s drive-through let me get her number three ketchup yeah okay I’m back and he’s like just doing silly stuff and the kids still like hook line and sinker Lou English on the phone oh my god you know and so after that that interview after that phone call we never told him that that wasn’t Lou Engel is it mean yeah it’s kind of mean you know but he lived his life moving forward like he just spoke to one of his heroes like how encouraging is that that you one of your heroes it doesn’t make it right I know I know but he’s living his life moving forward like he really spoke to luego who called and affirmed him you know you just got to look at the good so for him he’s living his life like he did he didn’t talk to Lou Engel you might not talk to those fairies you might not have had that encounter with Jesus you might not have had that encounter with the angels or the fairies or the aliens you don’t know it seems real real enough to stake my life upon it I hope it’s real anyway your response to that is what matters how does that change your life how do you apply the principles that they told you doesn’t matter if they showed up or not you got some wisdom that you wasn’t privy to before him but now you have it I’m gonna read this last comment maybe respond and then we’ll call this show green and white Jaime says the dream state is like the fourth fifth and sixth dimension also if we have a lot of bad dreams then that is to be the case in our afterlife for the individual you also said that uh I hear that as spirit will not be able to pass over if the person has unfinished business or was murdered in life so we’ll be stuck here until that they are ready to pass over all you also said that the aim is to end up being a positive mind in a positive mind frame so we can have good dreams and be positive so we are ready to pass on that’s my two cents for the convo now Dumbledore and I’m gonna respond to this because you keep asking me about mark passio I know who Mark passio is weird synchronicity I was thinking about having him on as a guest and he added me on Facebook like right when I was thinking about having him on as a guest sent him a message on Facebook didn’t respond I don’t know much of his work I know of him I know who he is he’s got a big name he’s been doing this for a long time that’s about as far as my extent I can’t you know I don’t I don’t know too much I know who he is and I’ve seen a lot of his work but I’d never watched a lot of it so yeah the drink the dream states are very interesting and I will you know point you back to an interview we did with a lady named Lanie dolphin I’m gonna keep talking about this interview she blew my mind it was a great interview I loved every single moment of it and I wanted to keep her on and maybe have to get her on again but she she works with a dream interpretation and talking about how to interpret your dreams and what they mean and why do you keep having these reoccurring dreams and these unresolved issues that you have in your life for me it’s one thing for us to be tempted and tried into physical reality right you’re trying with propositions from women from propositions from drugs or bad business deals or messing over on people or whatever the case is and you can easily you know fight that stuff and combat it get it out my face I don’t want it get out of here but in the dream state sometimes it’s not as easy to say no sometimes we just kind of watch it happen we know we don’t even feel like we’re a part of it but when you’re tempted and tried in the dream state and you pass and you’re you’re tested in that state that’s that’s the that’s where I want to be where I can have a dream that I could say no and and you know cuz you still feel like you did it man I’m telling you in the dream state like the my dreams are so real so lucid like I feel the grief the agony you know if there’s a I have a bad dream with a woman or something some woman kisses me or something like that like I feel bad like damn now I gotta tell my wife and my marriage is over and you feel the grief of what that would feel like and I I try to bring that out not I bring it out in the fact that look don’t put yourself in a bad situation you don’t want it you don’t want to see what it feels like to be alone or to be dishonest to your wife you know the grief of that and what it brings and not just that but all types of stuff you know smoking cigarettes again your addictions creeping back on you and it makes you feel dirty and you wake up oh man I’m glad I’m not gonna smoke crack again I’m not gonna go back to opiate addiction and not coming it’s nice not coming back to mountain in my life smoking cigarettes no I was delivered of that years ago I don’t want it don’t come back I do not want it so it helps you that’s my two cents with that I would say peace and Shalom thank you guys for hanging out with me this has been a three-hour podcast you guys like those podcasts I do too because the three our podcast means that I was interested in it you know we had something to talk about it was a common interest other net we’re gonna get a our episode and you’ll be done move on who’s next who’s the next guest I didn’t even really know much about this guy going into it but we definitely build and built and I really enjoyed it so if you want to support my work and help me produce more podcast produce more music produce more community more whatever we’re doing if you want to help out what we’re doing head on over to patreon comm backslash true seeker at any level of giving there you get access to so much stuff 200 plus songs Thursday night hangout school of the Mystics the discord links are there in the chat a bunch of awesome stuff you know you get stuff before it’s released to the general public months before and I’m also gonna be doing a Monday night session I’m sorry Monday morning session and I’m trying to find another night so maybe I just said it may be that spirit speaking we’re gonna do Monday nights as well I don’t know but I’m gonna start with Monday mornings to start our week off you know in and I’m probably going to introduce more I just got to get something that I know that I’ll be consistent with so we’re looking at probably Monday mornings and though that’s probably going to be something outside of patreon but I may use patreon to kind of facilitate it but I’m gonna do something that’s gonna be ten bucks a week if you want to kind of learn one-on-one and in that smaller group setting with us where it’s gonna be intentional whether we get into holotropic breathing we get into prophesying and learning how to do that over our lives I want to start the week off with that so honestly you know the Thursday night school of the Mystics is a really big group some people up in passing some people are coming some people are going and some people are there for five minutes or whatever and we need that though like we need the group hang out like that so I’m gonna keep that the way it is but these Monday morning things are gonna be a little bit more focused to where we can actually get in and tap into the spirit together with just a smaller group of people so if that’s something that you want to do and you want to grow with a smaller community and move forward working with me as well that’s going to be available too so just send me an inbox just say hey I want the info on that that’s gonna be like ten dollars a week just to kind of you know help me pay for some things on the backend and just kind of show that you want to grow in that area as well so with that I’m gonna say peace and Shalom there’s so much free stuff over there patreon comback slash true seeker I just put out two meditations that are free to download I hope that blesses you as well so I’m gonna say peace and Shalom you guys will do it again very soon [Music] that does it for this episode folks to hear more episodes of the truth seeker podcast head over to Jessica calm and if you’re wanting to support the show and get rewards go to our patreon page at patreon.com forward slash truth seeker [Music]

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