Plant Medicine Master Class, Entrepreneurship and Tribe | Levi Darger

Plant Medicine Master Class, Entrepreneurship and Tribe  Levi Darger
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hc4PTQpLI4
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guest today my guest is Levi Dawg nur is
that how you say dark Berger I added a G
in there always those names bro hey Mei
welcome to our broadcast brother we got
a lot to talk about today how are you
I'm awesome thank you so much for having
me really excited to be on here and
share and connect with you and your
audience so thank you definitely man so
I guess a good place to start would be
just kind of you know telling the
audience a little bit about yourself and
what you bring to the table man for sure
yes so I have a program called in Theo
printer and we work with a high level
high performing entrepreneurs and the
premise of in Theo preneur is really
simple we connect entrepreneurs more
deeply to themselves to their life's
work and to each other it's really just
about bringing us back to what matters I
think so much about business and
entrepreneurship that has become flashy
and you know ego and it's all about me
or it's all about success and it's all
about how I look and how I appear and a
lot of people that have climbed their
way to the top have done so because
they've been driven by really deep inner
pain right and they get to the top and
they find out that the fulfillment that
they were seeking isn't there right and
that is sort of the catalyst for an
inward search for a lot of people and
that's where I come in
and we use we like what we like to do is
is combine so we do like adventures and
expedition
and things like that a lot of times
we're going through the wilderness do
badass meetups and trips and neat places
around the world and then we'll also
incorporate plant medicine so psilocybin
ayahuasca sometimes will facilitate even
indiamain things like that I'm always in
a really responsible respectful and
appropriate sort of a format this
interesting man because you're talking
about how people have climbed the ladder
of success and especially when it comes
to corporate America or capitalism it
can be tricky
you got a stet you got to step on a lot
of people's you know backs you got a you
got a you got to work you got to produce
you got a you know there's something
there's some tricky things that that
people have done to kind of weasel their
way to the top to be successful you know
to sell that product or whatever it is
so I'm wondering getting the all these
people out there's you know some of
these people maybe if they're new to
plant medicines and new to this kind of
thing if you get them out in the
wilderness and then they have that uh
you know one-on-one with God
you know after having all of this stuff
like what am I doing with my life do
people abandon you know their callings
or what they've been doing would they
kind of get a new you know say approach
on it or have like a come to Jesus
meeting out there how does that that's a
lot to deal with with people who are
already successful I kind of I'm on the
other end we do similar things but it's
people who are trying to find their
calling trying to find their their
passing you know yeah sometimes
sometimes you get people who you know
they come out of that they come out of
you know a a week-long session in
Colombia working with ayahuasca and they
come out of it going holy [Â __Â ] my whole
life has been a lie and this you know I
get to make a 180 shift in this
direction or you know more often than
not people are coming out with a lot of
clarity around how they can actually
take what they've created and and start
aiming that towards something that that
creates you know more meaningful
contribution
because I think you know when you really
look at it I mean my experience and my
story about the universes is that even
when we're in our deepest ignorance if
you will even when we're operating from
from blindness and pain and whatever
else we may be operating from the higher
self is is always driving that ship
right and I think there's a reason or a
purpose why we go into the things that
we do and we usually come out of
especially when you come out of plant
medicine experiences you come out of
that with a lot of clarity and you see
the value in everything that you did
even if it was [Â __Â ] up or even if it
was you know created pain for you or for
others or you know you had to step on
the backs of the suffering to get there
you come out of it with perspective and
I think that that's incredibly valuable
how would you market something like that
like how do you get people to sign up
for the case no could you because you're
going out to the wilderness I mean even
that in itself is just super powerful
just returning to nature essentially but
how do you market the the plant
medicines side of it because a lot of
its illegal right and there's people who
kind of know do you message them how
does how does that work if somebody who
wants to do a retreat or whatever with
you how like how do you let them know
that this is what we're doing you know
with it being illegal yeah well first of
all as far as anybody's concerned
everything which is actually aboveboard
so we you know when we do when we
organized an ayahuasca retreat we'll go
to Colombia or Costa Rica or places like
that where that's legal we have we're
probably going to be doing a psilocybin
retreat in Holland where there's legal
loopholes where you can actually work
with psilocybin truffles and things and
and then you know a lot of a lot of it
is because a lot of what I do is also in
addition to these events like I'll
support people in cultivating their own
relationship with plant medicine right
so there's a lot of coaching and
consulting people who are actually that
maybe they're microd
because that's one of the things we're
doing kind of helping people move deal
with things like depression and anxiety
sometimes they're coming out of you know
so we'll do micro dosing and as far as
marketing it's actually there's a lot of
word-of-mouth you know people could not
have it going while this this totally
changed my life a lot of these people
don't want anybody to know that they're
working with something as controversial
as plant medicines but there are some
you know some of the guys that have
worked at like Ryan's Dumon a really
great guy really when he came to us like
he was he was the whole idea being out
in nature and plant medicine all of that
stuff was just like this is not you know
he's like this is this is stupid I'm not
a nature guy I I don't know what I'm
doing here kind of a thing coming out of
that completely completely just changed
his his his perspective and I remember
him coming out of out of his experience
talking about you know having seen what
a synthetic I think that was the word he
used what a synthetic world we live in
like and he was talking about how
everything he was seeing the plants were
showing him how removed he was from
nature from his own nature from
everything else you know and so a lot of
a lot of a lot of guys are coming out of
it with experiences like that and some
of them like Brian like I said are are
really awesome about sharing openly and
publicly like Brian's the type of guy he
dumped he didn't don't give a [Â __Â ] what
anybody thinks right so he's talks about
what what matters for him and and that
that helps a lot yeah but I think at the
end of the day it's really just about
delivering an immense amount of value
and then letting that speak for herself
mm-hmm what was your your your first
experience with uh with psychedelics or
plant medicines I kind of let you know
that hey this is something I shouldn't
embrace did you find your own healing
you know it's you
in the beginning yes absolutely I did
you know I I had a very long and painful
history so I I I came out of as I was
sharing with you before I started the
show I came out of a a fundamentalist
Mormon religious polygamous community
and was raised with what I now look back
and I see there's a lot of emotional
abuse a lot of spiritual abuse a lot of
a lot of dynamics there despite the fact
that you know in a lot of ways I had a
loving family but there's still a lot of
pain and a lot of trauma that came out
of that so for many years of my life
that that pain was was haunting me and
created a lot of problems in pain and in
my marriage and my relationships all
over the place and long story short it
was several years ago I had kind of hit
rock bottom
you know separated from my wife she had
taken my son and moved back to Germany
which is where she's from and this was
about eight years ago and rock bottom
didn't know where else to go I really
just tried to drown my pain through
alcohol through Affairs through you know
anything that I could to numb that pain
and ended up through happenstance ended
up at a meditation retreat and I met a
gentleman there coming out of the
retreat from Colombia and he was the
first he told me about ayahuasca and up
to that point I had never I think I'd
tried smoking pot like twice and it
didn't agree with me so I'd never done
anything with anything and so he told me
about ayahuasca in the moment he told me
about it though is this like my whole
spirit just just went like this I don't
even know what ayahuasca is yet he
hasn't finished explaining it to me but
my spirit knows and this I need to go
and it took me about three years because
I had a lot of fears and a lot of
excuses a lot of stories a lot of things
in between
took me three years to actually get down
to Peru and when I went down it was deep
jungle it was like flying into a ketose
and then you take a two hour bus ride
out to the river and then a two hour
boat ride down the river and you're in
the middle of the jungle and I spent
three weeks down there doing ayahuasca
ceremonies and it was there's no words
for it was just absolutely indescribable
healing transformation release catharsis
being shown dynamics of my life and the
way I had created things that stories
that I'd been living through and and
meanings that I had put on experiences
as a child a lot of pain around my
father and these things were just coming
up and coming out and there was also a
lot of emotional catharsis like just
grief just be a nun description you know
what I what I would call my own personal
Gethsemane if you will and having all of
these things come out and come out and
that was that was the beginning for me
of a really incredible journey into
learning how to work with plant
medicines and eventually answering a
call that I felt to facilitate for
others that was kind of the birthing
process of it of kind of like just kind
of going within to get that vision
almost like actually going into to get
to healing and then bringing the healing
back out to people as well to get that
vision right yeah I mean that it started
out just for my own personal healing
actually for quite a while it was just
you know and that that trip to Peru that
was the beginning of it and you know
it's funny I used to think that I used
to think that that was my red pill
moment you know I keep going down and
taking the eyewash
you read for a moment and if you know if
you're familiar with the matrix I'm sure
a lot of us are and the symbology of
that and the hero's journey that it
represents right yeah
and what I've come to realize is that
was not actually my Redco moment that
was my phone call in the office moment
not I mean yeah so the hero gets the
call to action and there's a call to go
cross that threshold there's a call is
calling you towards your red pill moment
that red co moment as a moment you
commit it revocable II to your path of
transformation right and the phone call
in the office moment like that's the
call to action but neo and in that scene
right there you know that he's got his
higher self which is Morpheus right it's
on the phone and guiding him through the
office and gets him to the window and
all he has to do is jump and he's got
afraid like he's good to go
right but he's scared he's like I don't
know who's on the phone with me I don't
know this is scary I don't even know if
these guys that he says chasing me are
all that bad you know others stay here
and that's the refusal of the call and I
think we all refuse the call initially
and I know I did and so coming back out
of that you have this and basically the
point that I'm making with that is is
that the plant medicine I think this is
a really important point to make and I
make this with everybody they work with
plant medicine does not change your life
you change your life right you get a
glimpse into possibilities you get shown
things you are brought to understand
things a little more clearly and then
you have the choice to go back into your
life and take action to transform or not
right and and that's I think a critical
point to make because a lot of people
see plant medicines is like a shortcut
to enlightenment or a shortcut to
whatever they're trying to get to and
it's I think the furthest thing from
when you when you work
properly okay so that's it that's a good
word you bring up shortcut um and doing
my research I was I was kind of hesitant
as well to to try the plant medicines as
far as like psilocybin was my big
come-to-jesus thing and I was hesitant I
was listening to a lot of interviews
Aubrey Marcus amber Lian reset dot Emmie
you know all that kind of stuff and then
it was peeking my interest but I would
hear other people's such as David
Wilcock and others talk about how like
the psychedelics are shortcut and you
need to do the spiritual work you need
to lie even those heightened states of
consciousness that you can achieve
similar states not the same thing by any
means we'd like to say that they are but
like through Kundalini Yoga or
Kabbalistic meditation or holotropic
breathing and breath work you can enter
heightened states of consciousness and
experience similar realms they're not I
don't think that's the same but I would
kind of pride myself on the fact that I
we didn't need you know the plant
medicine or we didn't need a shortcut
that just burst open your pineal gland
and shoot you in outer space that you
can gently kind of go into those realms
by doing the work so that's really
interesting that you bring up the word
shortcut because I had that
misconception there from hearing people
talk about it who probably didn't really
know what they were talking about right
to say that you can experience the same
states I don't think they're the same at
all
you know because each each plant teacher
has something different to show you in a
different realm that they operate in and
you get access to as well so you have to
deal with with you know I'm saying the
BS you have to deal with this stuff that
you've been suppressing or act like
didn't happen or maybe you created a
different scenario in your mind to await
a way to cope with pain and traumas or
even things that you've done to people
but when you go into those realms you
have to deal with that stuff right
absolutely you do and and and I think
there's a couple of really good points
that you that you made that are worth
expanding on and one of them is the term
that you use when you talk about it
plant teachers and how each one of them
has you know something different to to
show you and I think that that's that's
a good place to start with this
conversation because first of all
looking at looking at plant medicines
and sort of like the the purpose of the
value or the way you know like what
value do they serve if they're not
shortcuts or if they are shortcuts or
whatever and this is just this is my
paradigm this is what I found the most
value in relating to it this way I'm not
going to say that this is the right way
or the wrong way I think everybody gets
to sort of choose their way of relating
to this but but I find a tremendous
amount of value in this perspective and
that is to first of all recognize that
what we're talking about is not a
substance so much is it is a
relationship with an actual intelligence
you know and a lot of people go oh
that's kind of but the you know I
experience especially since working with
plant medicine I experience a universe
that is inherently intelligent that is
alive and I I think it's not it's not a
stretch the imagination by any means to
understand it that you're dealing with
an actual intelligence that is
self-aware sentient aware of you and
loving very loving and so and a lot of
people describe experiences with these
different medicines for example a lot of
people will call ayahuasca the
grandmother you know and I I have
experienced it very much that way it's
like you know like a grandmother like
almost like a an indigenous kind of
grandmother right like the kind who's
very loving and very kind but she ain't
gonna take no [Â __Â ] and you're gonna
respect the elders right and she also
has an agenda for you like she she's got
something specific that she's gonna
deliver for you and so the way the
ayahuasca tends to work
for example is is kind of like come here
come here sweetheart come here
come come to Grandma and then wow you
know squeeze all your puss in your
garbage out and then calm you down and
it tends to come in waves like that like
really intense and then really blissful
and really intense and really blissful
you have San Pedro watch Yuma which is
more of a masculine energy I find that
they call it teal uncle and and then you
have psilocybin what's just lost Nino
Santos the sacred children very playful
III experienced it that way and very
almost like psilocybin tends to be like
hey where do you want to go right oh you
just want to you just want to pop me at
a rave and have fun and not go anywhere
deep ok fine cool whatever your your
game you want to go deep it's there yeah
but if you are go deep let's go like
I'll go where you want to go but to
understand first of all that these are
intelligences and to relate to them that
way and to second of all to the way that
I look at it and the way I approach
working with medicine is it's very much
to me like when you step into a ceremony
or a journey if you will it's like
stepping into the classroom of God
that's how I look at it right and your
higher-self your guides or angels the
the plant medicines however you want to
look at whatever that is there's a there
is a higher intelligence that is
operating and working with you and that
is the professor cool about God being
the school in the classrooms and
teachers being the different entities or
plant teachers as well like God being
doll just the entire school and eats you
know teacher that works under him or her
or whatever you know yeah absolutely and
that to me that's kind of what these are
is like different professors in a sort
of a university and the course that
you're taking
the fundamental course that you're
taking is Who am I 101 right and so
sometimes you're being introduced to all
the things that you've thought you were
that you're not and getting those peeled
back and getting a glimpse into the
deeper version of yourself sometimes
you've been introduced to your your
potential and and the way I experienced
it and I think a healthy way to work
with plant medicine is to first of all
to understand that the way that the
medicine works is it meets you wherever
you are on in the staircase of
consciousness like we're all just
walking each other home this is gonna
meet you wherever you are it's gonna
take you a few steps higher and it's
going to give you a glimpse into what
life is like in at this place in
consciousness and then it's gonna drop
you back down to where you were and it's
almost like Kay now you know what you're
aiming for start climbing those stairs
go back into your life and into the work
so you went into the classroom you got
an education you got a lesson you got
homework right and it's up to you to go
do the homework now if if you come out
of that and you don't do the homework
and you go back into class again it's
you get the professor's gonna be like
did you do your homework no the dog ate
it right all right here's the same
lesson maybe a little harder yeah and
you're just gonna keep getting that
those first couple stares and you never
get to actually see what's what's
possible and I think there's a lot of
people that do that they work they take
ayahuasca almost on a weekly basis I
mean they do this bliss chasing and it
and and you're cheating yourself out of
the true potential of these medicines
which is to act as a guide and a teacher
because I think that they are meant to
lead you to a place where ultimately you
don't need them yeah you know that's
good yeah man we went on a on a on a we
I hosted my own men's retreat and we we
did this you know a similar thing with
psilocybin and you know it was like okay
it's gonna be a come-to-jesus moment
okay we search our hearts and see what
we need to let go of see what we need to
embrace and walk moving forward you know
I had friends that were suffering with
opiate addiction and things like that so
we went into it is like you know it's in
just a men's retreat and a very solemn
and did some chanting and you know
fasting and stuff like that and it was a
beautiful encounter it changed my life
you know and I'm the one leading it and
it changed my life you know I got some I
got what I was looking for out of it
right and meet you where you are
but there was one friend who came and um
he came later than everybody else he
wasn't in on the chanting he wasn't in
on the preparation on the fasting and
vegetarian stuff that we did for a week
or whatever and his experience was a lot
different he was just wanting to hang
out and listen to Pink Floyd and this
kind of stuff you know which is cool if
that's what you want to do right but it
was a little bit something deeper and
I've experienced realms unimaginable
right and then you know the golden
teachers is what I did and I felt like I
met these entities that I called the
golden teachers that were like giving me
that life of you and telling me what to
do and asking me questions and stuff and
it was profound changed my life um but
this other guy you know after we were
done it was hard to speak I don't like
what the hell happened what did we it
was a rollercoaster we're all
experiencing the waves synced together
but this other guy who came separately
he's like oh I'm gonna do it again I'm
ready to do it next weekend and I'm like
next weekend like it's gonna take me
three months four months or it was some
time to unpack all of this stuff we must
not have had the same experience and I
Oh mine was deep to mount was like
there's no way there's no way for you to
want to just dive back in and it's I
think it's irresponsible you know just
to keep using it as a party drug and
just to say that person did it the
following weekend had a bad encounter it
was very bad very bad wasn't fun he was
with friends who was listening to
Marilyn Manson with the the doors open
at their home with blaring the music so
there's the fear that the cops are
coming he sat in a bathroom
this crazy encounter so you definitely
have to respect it you have to approach
it with a level of respect mom one thing
I was wanting to kind of piggyback off
of as well when you're talking about the
school and you have to do the homework
and I think all this stuff kind of ties
in looking at the research out there
about how it helps you deal with
depression those of you who are dealing
with depression there's so many
celebrities and relying in myself myself
you deal with this depression and it can
help you it gives you another
perspective on life what really matters
it you know the neuro chemistry what is
it you know row Genesis as well
redrawing brain cells all of this this
crazy stuff it's beautiful but there's
this notion that I'm exploring and I'm
sure you can speak to it because you
kind of just did in a case that I think
that it can cause depression as well if
you don't do the work if you go and you
touch heaven and you communicate with
divine beings who tell you your life
story and what you need to do and you go
back to your mundane nine-to-five and
you don't put your hand to the plow you
look back and and you just stuck at that
nine-to-five when you know this these
greater realms exist and you know that
you were meant for something greater and
you're stuck at their job and you don't
do the work and you don't make the phone
calls if you don't you know bring that
stuff out it will send you into
depression because you feel stuck have
you experienced that or do you do you
know where I'm coming from with that
yeah yeah I it's a really really
beautiful point that you that you make
there and and I think it is an important
conversation you have because first of
all just to just to take a couple steps
back to what you're saying right before
that about your friend and his bad trip
and then we'll segue into the
conversation about depression is if you
again are looking at these things as
relationships rather than substances
think of it like I don't know if you're
married but I am and you know if I look
my wife or any woman as a as a resource
as a tool Hey look at just look at how
that cheapens the quality of that
relationship just by relating to her
that way oh oh you know she can bear me
many children she washes my dishes and
cleans my underwear and you know these
types of things or or she's something
she's something to to get my jollies off
on
she's something to use for my own
recreational purposes you can have that
kind of intimacy that you can have that
kind of sex but it's shallow unfulfilled
sex right and we can it's the same thing
as is with any relationship you can have
that whether it's plant medicines
whether it's the earth whether it's your
business your your money whether it's
God or whatever the relationship is you
can choose to engage with it based on a
utilitarian thing right this is how we
look at pretty much everything you go to
any National Forest on in America and
it's you know welcome to Dixie national
forest land of many uses right we look
at [Â __Â ] as what we did out of it this is
the way we relate with everything in our
culture rather than looking at things as
a relationship for the sake of the
relationship itself and valuing what can
be had with that so Segway ting say
going back into the conversation around
depression absolutely all the things you
touched on with the neuro chemistry
micro dosing is a really great way
especially if there's anybody who's
who's never worked at all with
psychedelics and you're dealing with
depression or anxiety or things like
that micro dosing is a great way to ease
into that you can you know you're not
you're not going to be trippin hard
you're taking small incremental doses
over a period of time but the the
backlash the double-edged sword of
psychedelics
is exactly what you've talked about
right that you go in you have this
profound experience you touch the face
of God and then you you don't integrate
that into your being and you don't allow
that to permeate the way that you relate
with life in the universe then what you
get is a disillusioned old hippy right
what you get is is somebody who just
goes oh yeah you know it just produces
this this sensation of you know
sacredness and the sensation of whatever
but it's just a substance that that I
tripped on and and so I think depression
there's a lot of different causes of
depression but I think at its core
depression is a symptom of disconnection
right and I say this having dealt with
depression quite a bit actually and even
having depression come come back as a
research in my life after after having a
limited eliminated at for four years
through plant medicines and in just this
last year actually beginning of 2018
like I had depression just emerge in my
life like like I hadn't had in a long
time so I think the depression can
actually come from from a couple of
different directions it can come from
not integrating those things it can also
come from having a deep dis integration
like a destabilizing yeah because that's
what this is what plant medicines do is
is they sort of deconstruct your your
sense of self and most of the time it's
it's at a level that you know that court
sort of shakes you up but you
put yourself back together in a new way
and put it back together yeah but I've
had experiences about three years ago I
was in Colombia and an ayahuasca and I
had is this like it took me apart in in
the most merciless way like just
absolute tore me apart I could not I had
no memory of who I was I had no memory
of like I was trying to remember my kids
his names as try and really much trying
really hard to hold on to my sense of
self like I was terrified in retrospect
I can see that the ayahuasca was trying
to give me a gift but I was so scared my
amygdala was kicking in so hard that's
trying to hold on and in a little in
that experience I had this just
encounter with the what I'll call the
void and there's really no words to
describe that but just this the
emptiness and meaninglessness of the
entire universe and the an experience
with the aspect of my own non-existence
Hey this exists but you don't exist you
are but you're not
and and that encounter shook me up left
me in a state of I don't know if it was
depression so much it's just well it was
a lack of like the sense of purpose that
had come from my previous identity was
completely shredded I had no real sense
of purpose and it was almost like he was
even if you're even with your purpose
like don't you the greater scheme like
yeah I'm gonna make change I'm gonna
help people they like yeah and and that
that is a tremendous gift they have so
much appreciation for it in retrospect
but it was it was really rough and and I
don't think you know like my experience
is those types of
intense deconstructions don't come
initially for most people they don't
happen out of a joke usually the plants
sort of reserve those for after you've
been doing this for awhile and they're
like okay let me really let me really
disassemble you I've been having these
weird flashes of my own mortality you
know and this weird fear will grip me
even after touching eternity and and
feeling like I went to the place that we
go when we pass like this is what we
look like you know color shape wisp all
of these different stuff going on I feel
like okay this is this is what eternity
looks like you can't even you know it
doesn't look like what we see now and
I'm saying the physical reality and so I
felt like I'm going in and coming to
grips with with death almost right okay
it's not gonna be so bad this is where
we came from we're gonna return and
everyone's done it but now like I'm
having these weird and it just comes in
waves now of like my own mortality like
you know you're not going to matter you
know in in a few years thirty years
you're not gonna matter it are you gonna
be you're gonna be forgotten 50 years
maybe you know and and just the small
things and one thing that really makes
me remember that it makes me go into
these things is I'm really big on
nostalgia but like going back and
remembering childhood stuff that doesn't
exist anymore right
the place where you used to live is now
another family's live and there's no
trace that you were even there you know
and you have these memories in these
beautiful encounters but that's only in
here like there's no you can't share
that with anybody maybe if you tell them
in a story draw a picture or whatever
but that doesn't exist anymore and I'll
have dreams where I go visit childhood
friends and those friends will they live
in different houses and it doesn't and
it's just this weird realm of your own
mortality man and like where you're
gonna go when this happened when you
leave and we're all doing things to
either take us out of our body or have
these encounters with heaven and angels
and and whatever
but then the small things in life that
we you know grassman just just this
existence chocolates like all of these
little Beautif rend ships you know yeah
this time is running out as far as this
encounter goes and it's gonna look like
something else people complain people
have a hell of a time in this body but
it's so beautiful
and it's running out it's kind of scary
like it really is I don't know if we get
to do it again you know I talk to people
who talk about reincarnating over and
over and this is it I do expect
something greater and something more
beautiful on the other side but this
this life this conversation man you know
these people it's beautiful
it's not mad you know what I'm saying
and do you this is that part of what
you've experienced like in the void as
well you know in the course of my
explorations and you know going going in
the in the quote-unquote classroom and
there's a lot of things that have
brought me to a point like like my my
philosophy is number one spirituality is
in my life in so much as its practical
yeah it so much as it adds value right
now I don't give a [Â __Â ] if it's true or
not I give a [Â __Â ] whether or not it adds
the most value for the most people right
so look at things in terms of number one
practicality and number two you know I I
don't disbelieve in a lot of things a
lot of people talk about ascended
masters and reincarnation and all these
and there are experiences that I've had
that good that could lend themselves
towards giving credibility to those
things but there are other possible
explanations for for for those things as
well and so I look at it and I go well
if I can't you know if it's conjecture
it's not it's something that I'll
consider and McCadden and and explore
but I want to deal with the things that
I can observe right what is observable
for to me and and I've had observable
experiences of something beyond this
realm so that that to me is
unquestionable but I also look at it and
I go what if it's not you know to me I
think that it's possible that part of
the problem that we have in the world
today is this effort that we make at
transcendence right what we're trying in
all kinds of different ways to transcend
something whether it's through religion
and and this idea that you know if you
righteous enough or you do good enough
you're gonna transcend this earthly
plane and get to heaven where it's
better there someday maybe whether it's
the technological advancement that we
make through science and everything else
that hey we're gonna arrive at some
singularity somewhere and when I look at
the universe what I see I see the
infinite I you know I people say do you
believe in God and I say no I don't
think that something you can observe
requires belief right to me it's
observable it's an observable phenomenon
whether you're what if you tell a God or
whatever like life is expressing itself
in infinite forms in infinite variety
and maybe that's what I am as well right
so maybe these experiences of myself
beyond this body are not so much this
spirit that comes from some other place
down to this plane that I want to get
back to maybe it's all the same thing
right like maybe this body is the empty
space inside a clay vessel right and
maybe or another analogy is maybe this
body is a leaf and because I've had
these experiences with with medicines
where I zoomed out and I'm shown this
aspect of myself that is beyond this
body that is expressing through this
body and so maybe my body is like a leaf
on a branch
and that branch is on a bigger branch
and there's a lot of branches that come
off that branch and which explains why
there are people that I feel a kinship
with in this world right maybe they come
off the same branch as me and that
branch comes off a bigger branch and
eventually comes off the trunk and the
trunks got the roots and and there's a
whole [Â __Â ] Grove you know that goes
on for eternity I don't know but but um
maybe this body is just a leaf and maybe
that explains more of what people call
reincarnation is that leaf is gonna
wither and fall to the ground but the
leaf is not all that I am but it's
definitely an integral part of what I am
right - so maybe there's this something
what I'll call it my my mythical body
right and I've seen it like I've been in
ceremony I've looked at my wife and I've
seen hers you know she's my wife is
she's German but the the the mythical
body that that I've seen in her is like
this warrior got like this Celtic
goddess right tattoos on one side of her
face like badass [Â __Â ] my wife is the
sweetest she's his tiny little Gordon
girl and she's the sweetest most
nurturing woman but there's this soul
that inhabits her that is just you know
beyond this earth and and I think that
our ancestors were more connected with
that aspect of themselves than we are
yeah right and so whether or not there
is these other realms that I'm going to
go back to I I don't know for me I look
at it and I go whether whether there's
that whether there's reincarnation
whether I get just this one life and
then I go live with Jesus forever or
whether it's kind of like what I just
described like this is yet this is my
body this is my life and then I return
back to the earth and my consciousness
you know expresses in some other way any
way I look at it any way I slice it the
answer is still the same live my life
and and and maximize the gift that it is
to be being breathed to be being you
know my heart
pumped and and to be experiencing like
isn't isn't this may be the highest
purpose and calling of all life is is
for life to express and experiences
itself you know you have to make the
most out of whatever incarnation you
have its I think my fear is the fact
that what if this reality is better you
know what if this is heaven and then we
turn back where we wake up and we're
these you know bodies laying like in the
matrix with all these bodies that are
just tapped into the dream state what if
this is like I want to be here I want to
stay here if that's what we're going
back to you know yeah anyway but no it
just it just helps you just to make the
most out of it man and help other people
experience what you've experienced
whether it's through spirituality or
through the psychedelics as well because
I'm very big on the fact of you know
what like I don't care about your doctor
in your theology unless it can it can
help somebody you know if you can't
explain it to a child or whatever the
case is like something practical that
can make me a better father like what is
your doctrine and you're like that's
what I'm that's what I'm into we're
gonna ask you I have a couple more
questions is for you man we I was gonna
ask you you know what does God fit into
all this but I think we're kind of you
know touching on that throughout this
whole thing but I want to ask you in in
the fact that you came out of the Mormon
Church and before we went live you told
me you came out of it is into you know
I'm saying polygamy and things like that
the sect that you came out of you almost
called it a cult but you stopped
yourself you know yes well I said I
wouldn't quite call it a cult it was a
it was a very fundamental widget okay so
where does is there a disconnect a
hundred percent did you have to abandon
everything were there things that you
were able to keep god do you see plant
medicine maybe in the Bible or I don't
know how big you were on Scripture and
things like that is that did you have to
abandon all of it or does God still kind
of fit into that worldview with how you
see things now
oh here's here's what's interesting is I
mean first of all when I when I left I
was 18 when I left and I didn't actually
abandon the belief system I actually was
quite convinced I was going to hell but
I wanted to get out and see the world
right so for the first 10 years of my
life that's kind of the space I was in I
was actually afraid to let go of the
beliefs that I was raised with but I was
more of like a Jack Mormon and then my
son was born and that was the first time
I began to ask myself like what do I
really believe what I want to teach him
what is the life I want to give him know
and that set me on sort of a path of
questioning everything eventually
putting those beliefs up on the shelf
and being willing to consider the
possibility that they weren't true but
then I get basically from that point I
just came to a place of just like utter
like it's all [Â __Â ] like that's the
space I was in like holy cow I can't
believe that I was duped by all this
[Â __Â ] for so long and then plant
medicines and I think that that you know
having lost that because because in
spite of all all the BS that I was
raised with one of the things that I'm
really grateful for is that I had a
mother who for whatever else you may or
may not have done she really instilled
in me a love for for God right and an
appreciation for something beyond and so
I think part of were the things that
caused the pain and the depression and
things for me in the past were feeling
like that was all just a lie feeling
disconnected from everything and then
plant medicines sort of reawakened that
and helped me see holy cow there is
something beyond all of this and it's
been right there in front of my eyes
like if my first experiences in Colombia
with in Peru with the ayahuasca were it
wasn't like a realization it was a
remembering it was like it was like
remembering something and coming
home to a place that I had been lost
from and searching for all over the
place and so there was that and then I
had an experience with Silla Wasco which
is a psilocybin combined with another
medicine and I did a retreat in in
Holland with that and that was where I
always say that brought me back to
Christ like and by that I mean you know
that that helped me to understand Christ
in a way that that worked for me yeah
you know I think everybody gets to have
their own relationship with that
whatever that is but that helped me
understand you know cuz I remember as a
kid growing up going wait a minute like
Jesus is my only begotten Son in whom
I'm well pleased well what about me
mother right and coming to realize this
like what yeah and and that is that is
in all of us it makes it more real it
makes the hero's journey more real it
makes Jesus more real you know just
verses he's this you know ascended
figure like you are him you know I'm
seeing like you're you're going through
that extent encounter as well you know
yeah absolutely and this actually kind
of ties back to some of the things we
were saying a moment it goes like Rudolf
Steiner who's one of the you know
Christian mystics from about a hundred
and fifty years ago I think he said
something that really stuck with me he
was talking about Christ and he says you
know most of us have this paradigm of
Christ as being you know Christ's on one
end and Satan or Lucifer or whatever on
the other end and he said you know
another perspective is to understand
first of all that you have on one end of
the spectrum you have Lucifer which
means the bearer of light on the other
end of spectrum you have what he called
ar-rahman which is sort of equivalent to
Satan which is you know equivalent to
Maya what the Hindus call Maya which is
just the illusion
this materialistic illusion that we live
in so on the one hand you have Lucifer
which is spiritual etheric you know the
the light and on the other hand you have
Satan or Armand or Maya which is this
material illusion getting lost and
getting stuck in this religion when he
said Christ is here in the middle
Christ is the meeting of those to do
things right so it's it's not a is not
opposites it's a spectrum and balance is
where you find that Christ self and and
whether or not again whether or not
that's the truth or not it's not
something I bother with it but it is a
perspective that I find value in and
then as far as as far as like coming you
know coming back to Christianity or or
any of this exact I don't really
consider myself a Christian even though
you know I just said that that really
kind of brought me back to Christ like I
think it was helping me to understand
forgiveness and understand you know
unconditional love yeah and recognizing
that these are these are you know that
love is not a it's not a feeling or it's
not affection it's not compassion it's
not this
those are byproducts of love those are
outcomes of love but recognizing that
love is the recognition of myself or of
God in what I see love is the coming
home to myself in some way and so every
judgment that I have on everything out
there it is in some form or the other
some expression of me and realizing that
if I were you with the sum total of your
experience is if I were consciousness
though that was coming through the same
womb as you with the same ancestry the
same epigenetics as you the same
experiences that happened to my mother
well while she was carrying me in the
womb the this everything that has come
together and conspired
shape you I would be exactly as you are
because I am you you know and finding
the forgiveness for others in that and
for myself and realizing you know
because I remember coming in that sermon
I was in hell for two hours just in hell
and thinking that you know there's no
way out of this and all of a sudden
there was like this grace just reached
in and lifted me out and I understood
forgive and I came up and I was crying
and I forgive you I forgive you I
forgive you our speaker to myself that's
where it comes from right that's where
it originates that forgiveness for
myself and finding compassion for all
the things that I had been so hard on
myself about and so for me to answer
your question for me plant medicine was
an experience that made me go oh [Â __Â ] I
think I threw the baby out with the
bathwater
there's ago you know and I went back and
I'm going and I'm looking now if I
really Testament I'm reading the words
of Jesus in the New Testament I'm like
dude this is deep like how did I miss
this I grew up with this every day it
was getting drilled in my heads and how
did I miss it you know yeah so yeah
yeah it shows you you know you get a you
get a new appreciation for it and then
if he existed or whatever the case is
that story it's not in vain
like I get it now you know what I'm
saying I get it well you know I don't
have to be a Christian I don't have to
be going to Sunday service or follow the
rules and tenets of organized religion
but I get Jesus I don't get all this
other stuff but I get Jesus I really do
you know what I'm saying and that
beautiful man going back to I got a
couple more questions for you here just
about psychedelics and things and wait
before you before you jump to the next
thing just one more thing on that
subject and I think this would be this I
find this immensely entertaining in the
music so I'm sure your listeners well so
more
you know founded by Joseph Smith in a in
the 1800's 1830s when he organized the
Mormon Church for the first time and you
know there was visions and prophecies
and all kinds of things and everybody in
the early days of the church was having
these visions well if you do your
research what you find out is I like the
probability the likelihood that Joseph
Smith was using plant medicines spiking
his sacrament wine with datura and and
you know different psychedelics and
producing visionary states in his
followers and actually using these plant
medicines to you know or create this
this religion like I think the
probability of that in my in my
perspective is probably 100 percent and
I think and a lot of people like well
that's you know there's something really
awful about that like all trading
altering people's state of consciousness
without their knowledge and against
their will and setting yourself up as a
prophet and all of these things and I
think that's a conversation that could
be had and and debated at length but for
me here's a perspective on that that
when i zoom out and i look at what you
know why would consciousness with God or
the universe why would that happen the
way that has if you look at the the
evolution of religion right and you have
like Catholicism for for a long time
this very oppressive this is the way
sort of thing and then you had sort of
this enlightenment that comes along with
Luther and Calvin and and the
Reformation and then from that there was
a series of smaller Reformation and then
Mormonism was born in what was called
the great Reformation in the early 1800s
and Mormonism interestingly enough is
that was the first first religion that
I'm aware of where because one of the
tenants one of the premises that Joseph
Smith was was telling people was that
you are gods in
real right the first time people had
heard that even though Jesus was [Â __Â ]
saying and know ye not that ye are gods
Yeah right but to me I look at it and I
see there's sort of this evolution in
the consciousness of humanity where
rather than look rather than looking at
Mormonism is like good bad right wrong
and Catholicism and everything else I
looked at it and I go it added value it
have definitely added value for me it
laid a foundation for me that has really
blessed my life you know once I let goes
all the bitterness about things that
didn't that weren't so nice no even I
can see the gift in those things you
know so just I think that just completes
that conversation yeah there's a lot of
people there you know and that's kind of
why this podcast exists as well like I
said we have people who were coming out
of different sects of Christianity and
they're embracing more of you know
spiritual ideas they're having their own
spiritual awakening and they need
somebody to kind of articulate what
they're experiencing and then on the
other hand those whether they be really
new-age or spiritual to kind of embrace
Christ to look at this is Jesus figure
what he brought to the table this you
know the Scriptures like I'm saying the
magic and beauty of the Bible in and of
itself and like you I'm saying the laws
of God or like I like to call the
universal laws like you know what I'm
saying like for me is there facts man
I've based my life upon them at least
all the beautiful stuff now there's a
lot of crazy stuff and I think it's all
esoteric and analogy and allegory as
well you know and but but once you get
the meaning of the allegory the meaning
of the hero's journey whatever apply
that in your life and then you see the
magic unfold so to really introduce
people to that and not like you said
throw the baby out with the bathwater
some people have to like even if it's
just for it's a period of time I've been
lied to they told me this in the Bible
and they just got to get away from it
you know and I understand that you know
what but some people they want to hang
on to their faith and still be able to
talk about their paranormal encounters
to talk about the magic of a psilocybin
encounter like to act like it didn't
happen
because the religion or church doesn't
accept that conversation and for me act
like well nope it didn't change my life
it didn't help me I never had it because
you don't want me to talk about it and
just being a beacon to be open and
honest and that's what everybody's
saying in the chat even about you as you
just being authentic or whatever and
that's the beauty of because you can't
be authentic in religion in the Mormon
Church and the Christian Church of the
Catholic Church you can't say well I
meditate I do yoga I do they're gonna
get rid of you so just to create this
new space that we're in moving forward
where we can be authentic and we can
love Jesus and love psilocybin well we
can love Buddha and love Jesus at the
same time like you don't have Stan
and we're like recreating this stuff and
uh and and just being honest about it
you don't have to act like you don't do
something or like something you know
yeah and I think I think there's there's
nothing wrong with anywhere anybody
chooses to be whether you whether you
want to hold on to your faith whether
you want to continue to identify this
way whether you know it's like what adds
value for you
like that's it and let's let you be you
and relate to God and Jesus in the
universe in a way that works for you and
let me be me and as long as we're not
over here trying to force our views on
each other you know we can't used to do
that what we'd say well Herman did you
used to do that did you used to
proselytize at all as the Mormon and try
to convince people and win them over I
didn't the the you know the way I grew
up and we were very much a fringe group
you know mainstream Mormonism has a very
active very proactive missionary program
as I'm sure everybody knows has probably
had some where they knock on your door
at least once or twice and but it's not
something that that I ever did in fact
because we were polygamists and polygamy
is actually has been prosecuted and
persecuted and illegal we I actually
grew up sort of in fear both of my
grandfather's spent time in prison for
just for being polygamists
you know so it was we kind of kept to
ourselves quite a bit yeah cuz that even
doing that like there's a big you know
that changes your brain right you have
to go and you have to convince people
that you're right
versus just yeah hey I don't care like
this is what works for me I understand
that works for you and I'm happy with it
but coming from that religious mindset
you have to like convince people like
I'm right this is the right yeah yeah
and I mean really the most authentic way
to share the truth if you feel like you
have it is to live it just shut your
damn mouth and live it and let people
look at you oh my god what is going on
with this like holy cow I want to be
like that and then and then maybe they
come and ask you and what are you doing
is working for you like I want some of
that you know it's really interesting
because that's how you know that's how
like you know st. Freemasonry that's how
they operate they don't go around
proselytizing hey you want to be a Mason
fill out this card you know they don't
do that they they live their life and
their rule motto is ask one to be one
you have to see their life and see their
fruit and see how they live and you have
to ask them they don't they can't come
to you hey son I tell you the secrets of
universe you know they can't do that you
know it's really interesting a couple
more questions about this uh the plant
medicines here just for my own
understanding have you tried salvia
leaves the salvia divinorum leaves not
to extract what it was like a big thing
here in the states where people are
buying it at the head shop and losing
control of their body but the leaves
have seen seem really interesting me
I've been intrigued with them for years
but I don't know how or where to get
them but from documentaries and things
like that look really interesting have
you had experience with those I have
minimal experience I'll just tell you
all my experience with salvia so my
initial experiences were with the
tincture and I think that if a person is
going to work with salvia a tincture is
is a good way to go like if you can't
get your hands on on actual
sleeves themselves tincture is the most
controlled way to dose yourself whatever
you don't smoke it I've done that too
that was a terrifying experience you
cannot control your dosage and salvia
can take you anywhere from like a gentle
meditative state to the full-blown you
know out-of-body don't know who I am
I have also had experience with fresh
leaves chewing them and that was in
Costa Rica we organized a retreat
several years ago and with some
entrepreneurs and among other things we
I have a some connections down there and
they were able to get me some freshly
grown salvia leaves which we chewed and
that was actually really positively
experience very very gentle as far as
like tobacco using that connecting with
the tobacco spirit so you have you tried
hop a or repay yes which is with that
you find that at ground you or helps you
tap in a little bit better yes
absolutely and there's many many
different types of hop a as you as you
probably know so I like hot bay is a
whole branch that you can actually
explore I don't I I don't have much
expertise in hop a I do use it sometimes
in facilitating I find especially when
somebody sometimes and I'll use
different hop base sometimes we use it's
very gentle halfway to sort of ground
somebody who's kind of having a hard
time being in their body sometimes we
use a more of a harsher hop a and and
that can help people who like sometimes
you get people that are very much in
their head and they're having a hard
time getting out of their head and just
getting into it and they're trying to
control their experience and so
sometimes hockey will actually kind of
help them give them a push so to speak
yeah it's been it's been a positive
experience for me if you go into it
right because we've wood
with friends over who like want to try
it or whatever we'll just do it in
passing hanging out and you can feel it
it's cool whatever you may get
lightheaded or something but if you do
it in coach your eyes and go into the
feeling especially being outside put
your feet on the ground actually
grounding when you do it in releasing
because you're gonna release you're
gonna drain you know so it's there's
there's out releasing there but if you
go into it it makes it makes the
experience way better time almost like
you would say like you know going into
it with intention like I'm not just
gonna do it last thing I'm gonna do it
and because I got my friend Chris here
cuz I've done it and showed it to him
and he did something he ordered it and
he was doing it every day he's in chat
right now tobacco right so I mean I
think that's something that people gotta
be aware of is is like it's an addictive
substance if you allow it to be and you
know and you do you do get to choose
again what kind of relationship are you
gonna have with these things because it
can you can cheapen it over time and
I've been there you know like for me two
bathrooms a backhoe micro dosing like is
you just kind of you do it every day or
well micro dressing is when you're well
with psilocybin and with most most micro
dosing you're doing it every few days
alright because you build up temporary
tolerance so you don't want to do it
every day because then you have to keep
taking increasing amounts to get the
same results and also it's kind of like
working out you know how you don't want
to work out same muscle every day you
want to work it out and then you want to
give her a chance to so you want to give
you your neural pathways a chance to
rewire and do the thing that they're
gonna do and I I don't think I've been
fact my experience has been with things
like psilocybin I buy animals that
apparently addictive so that's anything
my tendency has been to like take I
allotted the less I want to do every
time I go to do Alaska I only go when
I'm really feeling called like when I
feel like the ayahuasca say come their
time
and even then I'm like okay I go I could
give myself up for this like it's not
something that I'm like oh yeah let's go
do something again like like we said
earlier I think that people can get
addicted to the Bliss chasing or you
know sort of that gratification instant
gratification and on any level it's not
good it took me a long time to figure
that out but that instant fix
OOP there it is you have to work for
that gratification you have to work to
build a a good business a good
friendship a good relationship with your
wife it takes work and so to have
something that you really enjoy the
feelings and emotions cuz you're working
hard to maintain it and to get there so
anytime you just get a quick fix
it's never good and so it lasts to if
it's something that's like that so and
I'll talk about my experiences and stuff
too and I've only had a couple you know
but they've been super impactful on all
my life I've done the micro dosing and
stuff as well but I always kind of give
the disclaimer that I'm not I don't want
to I don't want to promote it as far as
like you need to do it you need to do it
I feel like if it's calling you you have
to do it because that's what that's how
I felt it was calling me I'm just
watching stuff and I'm like ah maybe
maybe not and finally it's just I'm
calling you watch these documentaries
you got it's like if it calls you you
have to do it yeah I mean I always tell
people number one don't ever ever bucket
list it like don't ever do it because
it's like hey I want to have this
experience before I die like that's not
a reason to do it I mean if you want to
try it right but if it like you said if
it's if it's calling and its really
clear hey like if you know my advice to
people let's just trust yourself trust
your own knowing just trust that because
when you go into especially if it's your
first experience you you need to be able
to go into it with that trust and and so
that no matter what comes up if you go
into it and you don't have that trust
with yourself and you start having a
rough experience you're just going to
amplify the difficult experience because
freaking out going oh they shouldn't
have done this oh this is really bad
rather than be able to go okay this is
freaking me out and I know this is where
I'm supposed to be so there's something
here for me just look at it must be with
it
because that's what makes it different
like people say oh what about bad trips
I'm like there are no bad trips there's
just trips where things come up that you
didn't want to look at and be with yeah
that's how a bad trip is man that's you
know my second encounter the first
encounter I thought I was an expert I
was in it was it was with psilocybin it
was a I wouldn't say was a micro dose I
think I did like we did like two grams
and we did it in a folk tank as well
which was beautiful really philosophical
looking over your life combing over your
life this I got a lot of direction and
and putting pieces together and writing
plans down and stuff and it was
beautiful and I went and I did
interviews okay yeah if you want to do
mushrooms yeah it called me and I did it
you know I'm speaking on it as an expert
a few months later we do another men's
retreat and we go out into the woods and
we do the big when I was telling about
why pretty much did a hero dose but I'm
trying to help facilitate it with a
friend of mine and I kind of already
expected kind of the same thing this is
how it feels this is what it looks like
and took a hero dose and it was like
five to seven grams or something and
felt it pulling and I started feeling
uneasy like what's going on walk outside
trying to get a breath of fresh air and
then start seeing the webbing forming
into particles and matter like oh lord I
think we need to call the cops I think I
said but I think this is poison you know
all of these different things that come
in and I go inside I look at my buddy
he's looking at me smile and he's like
man just gotta let go bro don't fight it
man it's like yeah fighting it I feel I
feel it pulling me out of my body I'm
like I'm trying to hang on you know it's
like okay yeah the panic in okay let go
sorry we're in it now just let go and
finally I'll let go and you go in you're
going that roller coaster ride man and
and it's beautiful and it's crazy like
that um there's a couple more questions
I want to make sure I get to hear
there's some people in the chat here
who'd you asking questions as we're name
and some of these different
sure plant medicines and teachers
someone's wanting to know this was I
believe Dumbledore's or us asking about
a bogus have you had any experience
Dumbledore is a great boga yes I have I
have had an experience with the program
and it was it was one of the most
difficult experiences in my life was
very very challenging it was it was 18
hours of feeling like there was a meat
grinder just grinding grinding my psyche
for 18 hours and all I could do is just
breathe you had to make sure you have to
make yourself breathe like it wasn't
just like let me relax like I had would
you conscious of each breath like okay
it's not like I was gonna stop breathing
if I didn't but it was it was more like
it was like the only way for me to get
through this is to be with it like like
just to sit and go god I hope this is
over that would just destroy me so the
only thing I could do was just focus on
each and every breath and just breathe
in and breathe out and let it be what it
was yeah and you know and a lot of
people in fact I'm gonna be going down
and doing another iboga experience this
year and after coming out of that one so
a lot of people come out of iboga and
they have you know everybody generally
speaking they all are in agreement that
it's very difficult very challenging but
a lot of people come out of it with like
a ton of clarity like the iboga spirit
came to him or their higher self was
just speaking to him really clearly and
they were asking questions and getting
like these really clear answers like you
know I didn't get any of that in my
iboga journey it was literally it was
just a really really difficult
challenging experience and when I came
out of it I mean I was in tears and
I was like because there's what they
call the gray period the facilitators
people and by the way I strongly strong
want to emphasize this don't do a boga
by yourself don't do it by yourself and
don't do it with somebody who doesn't
know what the hell we're doing
I can die you know I can recommend
really good facilitator if you if
anybody is interested in that but
there's a great period when you come out
of that and you just I think you just
feel like you have just been had the
[Â __Â ] beat out of you inside and out and
then you fall asleep at some point and
you sleep for a long time and when you
wake up from that you just feel really
bright and clear and clean and refreshed
so when I was in like that gray period
like I was just in tears I was like I am
never doing that again like ever like
that was the worst experience of my life
but coming out of it I also knew like it
was really clear that the iboga was
telling me I want you to come back so
coming out of I was like no [Â __Â ] way
and then the next morning when I woke up
I was like okay yeah I can see clearly
now that you know this is part of a
bigger process and I'm being called back
but is it was it was rough yeah I really
was Ralston wants to know about San
Pedro your experiences with that and if
it how it's linked to treating addiction
if any of that info well I first of all
I think all all plant medicines actually
have a tremendous amount of potential
for treating addiction and iboga again
if you're dealing with addiction I would
recommend looking into working with the
iboga facilitator ayahuasca also dr.
Gabor Matta is he's an incredible
incredible just dealing with addiction
helping people deal with addiction
understanding the root cause of
addiction he works with ayahuasca with a
lot of his patients so if you're dealing
with addiction of any kind plant
medicines can be really supportive of
that San Pedro definitely has the
capacity to to support you in that but I
think the essence of that really the the
main thrust of the kind of support that
you receive from the plant medicines is
to two things one of them is that they
have the capacity to introduce you to
the root causes of your addiction right
dr. Mattei says the opposite of
addiction is not sobriety the opposite
of addiction is connection right so
plant medicines what they tend to do
when you go in the classroom is take you
and show you where you disconnected
yourself where you made up this story
that you're not lovable that you're not
worthy that you're this that you're that
and how you created that so you
understand the constructs that you've
created that that that have you reaching
for something to substitute that
addiction and also by the way it helps
to really look at what it is you're
addicted to and what is that addiction
providing for you so for me like tobacco
cigarettes was something that that I've
dealt with off and on for a better part
of my life and really getting to the
root of that involved having to look at
like what is it that that was doing for
me it was calming for me first of all
the way I inhaled is not the way
everybody inhales my way of inhaling
would draw the smoke back so that would
hit the back of my throat in a very
specific spot and soothe my throat and
this is because for most of my life I
grew up feeling like I didn't have a
voice you know the way that I was raised
and things I was raised with I made up
the story that you know it wasn't okay
for me to speak my truth and that's a
journey that I had to go on so looking
at what it is you're doing what is
alcohol doing for you I have a friend
who was addicted to alcohol what he
realizes he was using it as a social
lubricant he wanted to be able to let
his real self shine when he was around
people and so being able to look at that
and use different ways to get the same
reason
but the other thing that plant medicine
does for you one of them is it shows you
your stories and what you created the
other thing that it does for you
depending on the plant medicine is the
purging energetically purging and
sometimes physiologically purging so
iboga is shown to actually physically
address that like the physical cravings
for heroin which is a really difficult
one to to get past ayahuasca will will
actually help resolve a lot of those
physical urges as well but they also
tend to purge out energetically like the
energies that are feeding on your pain
you know if you want to call entities or
whatever it is you want to call in but
whatever it is that's feeding on that
that's kind of keeping that in place for
you they can help purchase those now if
you go back into your life and you
reinsert yourself into the same kind of
situations and scenarios that invited
those things into your space in the
first place they'll come back in it's
kind of like you know getting surgery
and having you know something removed
having an infection removed and then you
know you're careless with the bandage
and you let it get reinfected you know
it's a lot of people do that this is
kind of a new one I think I've heard it
in passing this is a word who here wants
to know about you're in info insight
with datura and tox eeeh
known as the Angels trumpets yeah so
what I can tell you about it is it is
not a plant to be [Â __Â ] with by any
stretch of the imagination
be very very cautious and careful there
are different aspects of that spoke Soto
a as in some parts of South America they
call it tow a brood Mencia angels
trumpet that's the version of it that
they use in
South America and some shamans will
actually mix that in with their their
ayahuasca Bruce so be very if you're
gonna go down and work with ayahuasca
first of all be very very careful and
very selective about who you choose to
work with if you are good at this point
right yelping things like that right
well I would definitely check into
reviews and pay attention to those but
also like just really really use common
sense and tune into your heart listen
listen very carefully to your intuition
and trust that intuition and don't like
just don't go with any old you know
somebody who's like you get you if you
get off the plane and nikitos and jump
in a taxi I guarantee you that the taxi
drivers gonna be like oh you're here for
I'll ask it hasn't you know don't go
with that guy
but they'll mix to--a into the bruise
and a lot of them are doing it just
because like to--a produces very
realistic like with most plant medicines
ayahuasca suicide most of it you know
you might have visuals but is really
obvious to you that those are not
physical reality with datura you don't
have that ability to distinguish most of
the time right so you you know you can't
tell a lot of times if what you're
seeing is really there or not you might
be sitting there having a conversation
with somebody and thinking they're a
real person and suddenly they're not
there happens a lot in America you have
jimsonweed
Jamestown's that's what's the money in a
common effect yeah yeah and that's
related to it's from the same family and
these are all nightshades very toxic by
the way you take too much you can die
and it's very hard to dose properly I do
not I don't I don't work with it I don't
have I haven't
ingested it to my knowledge it is
something that like I have a very
distinct feeling that I will be working
with it at some point and I'm listening
in very carefully for
I know that it's calling to me and I
don't know if that's gonna be one-time
deal or how that's gonna work also there
are different ways to work with it and
the Torah has two different forget what
the word is basically the the is the
scientific term for it and I can't think
of it
the compounds that are psychoactive the
Torah has two of them and one of them
can really really [Â __Â ] with your sanity
right and so if you work with people who
really really know how to work with that
plant they know how to administer it in
a way that you get the one that you want
the compound that you want and you don't
get the compound that you don't want
because a lot of people come out of
experiences with datura having use of
temporary but in some cases permanent
psychosis yeah and most people
especially people that do not respect
the plant will come out of it having
very very dark and disturbing you know
this so that even if they they're not
dealt with psychosis or you know
permanent psychological damage they are
very traumatized by it it's not a plant
to mess with what about is there a
difference that you can tell between
psilocybin as far as like the golden
teachers or the Hawaiians versus the
Amanita muscaria is there a different
level of potency I know there's a
different experience that kind of comes
on with each strain but specifically the
golden teachers is wood I'm used to that
in the Hawaiians but I'm seeing online
that you can actually order
Amanita muscaria in in America it's it's
illegal to order it so I've never tried
it so moving forward with that what
would you what would you with some
advice you would give yes there's a
couple of
threads the things that are coming up I
think are good to touch on one of them
is psilocybin and Amanita muscaria are
actually two different mushrooms not
even it's different strains but they're
different types of psychoactive mushroom
so I'm gonna need a muscaria is that
little the little toadstool ones that
you see in a lot of like sacred
literature and and you know stuff like
that those are the little red ones with
the white dots on them and some of those
by the way some of those are poisonous
and some of them are not like you really
need to know what you're looking at
don't just go out and go oh there's a
there's a red and white dot I think I'll
take that one home and make it pee out
of it don't do that I'm the Amanita
muscaria is the the these shamans in
Siberia there's actually a for anybody
who's interested in looking it up I
won't go into detail but actually the
conditions of Santa Claus and Christmas
and all of that stuff actually stems
from that mushroom and the the Sami
people in Scandinavia and the reindeer
and all of that kind of stuff
reindeer will eat that mushroom they
love it they'll dig it up in the
wintertime eat that [Â __Â ] up and then the
shamans will drink the piss from the
reindeer because that that mushroom if
you take that mushroom itself it can
have some really nasty side effects but
if the reindeer eats it and then you
drink fish you get all the buzz without
side effects so AMA native muscaria
tends to produce feelings of euphoria
and sensations of flying I don't I
haven't worked with AMA neuter muscaria
that hasn't called to me I've done a lot
of research on that as far as psilocybin
goes and and all these different strains
so there's cubensis there's there's
golden teachers there's I mean there's
literally yeah psilocybin grows all over
the world and different strains have
developed all over the world and I think
that there are very subtle differences
each one has slightly different
personalities and I think you know that
like I would I don't think it's really
important right out of the gate what you
start with I would suggest starting with
something like golden teachers or
or you know cubensis or something that
you know has a really wide base of usage
that you know you're not going to have a
difficult time with and and then as you
get to working with it more you can
actually start to find the the
difference in the personalities and the
subtleties ayahuasca incidentally
because you know you're talking about
how these different plants have
different things that they teach you in
different personalities well there's
different strains of ayahuasca in fact
there's four main vines there's the
yellow vine black vine red vine and I
think the the white vine right which are
interestingly enough those are the four
sacred colors of Native Americans all
over the place but each one of these
each one of these vines if you brew a
different vine it would take you into
different dimensions and so that like
the shamans that I work with in Colombia
you know they cut one of them they call
it the the snake line because it takes
you into the realm of snakes there's
another one they call it the Tiger the
tiger vine and and my experience of it
has been literally so what what they do
the the people that I work with in
Colombia is they use different brews of
ayahuasca for different purposes so
you'll come in and I say you down there
for a week you'll come in and like the
first ceremony and they'll actually do
daytime ceremonies which is not really
common but for these people this is that
the in gatineau people in in Colombia
they actually do stew daytime ceremonies
and so you'll come in and you'll have a
daytime ceremony maybe in the beginning
which is really beautiful and it kind of
gets the process rolling for you and
then you go in and you do a nighttime
ceremony and they give you a different
brew and it's you can tell it's
different because it's much thicker and
more syrupy and and they give you a
smaller cup the first one was this big
ball and the second was this little ball
but you're tripping hard
on that second one that you were on the
first one and and you and you're purging
and there's all kinds of shits coming
out and they're doing work on you like
like scrape and [Â __Â ] out of your body
and things like that and then they'll
give you them the next one they'll give
you a different cup again and that one's
much more of like it's almost like the
first one was scrubbing the [Â __Â ] out of
you and this one's rinsing you you know
the first one was suds and soap and this
one's just rinsing and cleaning right so
the bait and they really understand how
to use these in what order to use it and
the ayahuasca and if you let them
explain it to you they'll tell you that
the ayahuasca is is telling them they
have you know that they're being spoken
to by the plants and saying do this for
this person do this for this person do
this for this place how many people
would would would you know go on a
journey like that have you seen that and
they take the first one and they're like
no that's too much I'm not there's no
way I can finish this I got to go back
and whether its proper you know process
all the information that came to him or
it just scared them or wasn't what they
were looking for and they just cut it
off there at their first first I've seen
a number of people who in fact there's a
there's a gal that were really really
good friends now she I took her down to
Colombia several years ago this was her
first experience with anything and you
know she was a yoga teacher she was she
was I had all kinds of things going on
and she goes into in her first ceremony
that first night like just scared the
daylights out of her like she was like
in the middle of the ceremony she's like
I'm gonna this isn't for me I'm out of
here guys like I'm gonna go like and
she's she would she thought she was not
tripping and she's watching everybody
else tripped real hard and that was
scaring her but I could like and I'm on
the ayahuasca and the shamans on the
ayahuasca and the shamans speaking to me
and Spanish telling me what to say to
her and we're basically like okay if you
want to go home tomorrow you go home
tomorrow we're not letting you leave
here tonight because you have a lot of
ayahuasca in your system and things
could go really really
she's like oh no I'm not I'm fine we're
like yeah but you're like we're going
has their own safety when I leave I
can't leave I'm stuck right that makes
it worse but for her like what happened
for me was like the ayahuasca or
something started communicating with me
and just so I sat down with her and just
started connecting with her and
listening to her and and I can't even
remember the conversation that we had
but whatever what I do remember is like
getting really clear guidance on what to
say and insight and I was being shown
kind of what's going on under the
surface that she's not saying and being
able to kind of help her calm down and
when she came out of that she had a
really deep and really profound
experience and fast forward to today she
actually works with plant medicine she's
one of the most she's gone down and
worked with tribes in Brazil she can
tell you more about Hefei than anybody I
know she's a facilitator for for combo
the Frog poison and she's actually in
training right now learning how to
facilitate iboga so she was able to get
past that initial hurdle changed her
frickin life but a lot of people did a
lot of people come into it and they're
like whoa this is not what I signed up
for I'm out yeah and so what I do is
when I facilitate first of all I'm
really thorough about going through the
process of making sure people are in the
right space before we ever go into it
having lots of conversations and
creating really clear agreements and
letting people know kay here's the deal
this is the space that we're going to be
in this is what's going on and for the
duration of this you know white here
there's like we're usually we're in a in
a remote place where people aren't going
to run out the door and and be running
down the street naked like we're out in
the wilderness or in the wild or
somewhere like that and it gives people
sort of the freedom to if they gotta
have a little bit of freaked out moment
and we have you know support like I'm
not facilitating these things all by
myself so there's always somebody there
keeping an eye on things there's always
somebody there who's sober
there's always somebody there who's
who's going to help like safety and
support is the number one priority and
if you're going to be an effective
facilitator like there's a
responsibility that you are taking on
and I you know I take that really
seriously so we usually do a really good
job of helping people avoid getting into
that situation in the first place but
that I learned how to do that through a
lot of trial and error and having people
get in there and go whose [Â __Â ] Terence
Mckenna kind of talks about the plant
medicines and you know psilocybin he
almost looks at it like them being like
a walkie talkie like a communication
device with that spirit or with that
angel or whatever that being is or
whatever like like it's encoded in the
DNA of that like hey if you want to
communicate you have to this is how
we're gonna do it I can't come down
there I can't manifest or whatever but
take this thing and we can meet on a
level playing field or you can come into
my reality or whatever the case is it's
very interesting and you're talking
about like being able to kind of hear
what the medicine was saying the teacher
behind it kind of saying hey do this
tell her this do that and that kind of I
want to bring that in because I know
that's what you specialize in now right
you're doing these retreats and taking
people into that as far as in your day
to day whether it's any type of
spiritual retreats or anything you do
that where there's no medicines used as
far as like do you do you know I was
talking about achieving heightened
states as a state of awareness through
holotropic breathing kundalini yoga
meditation those type of things do you
do that at all and maybe in a group
setting are you able to tap into those
other spirits those teachers without
having to you kind of remember or maybe
even because there's so much information
that comes through sometimes it comes up
later like oh I remember they said that
you know doesn't that type of deal do
you have open lines of communication
with those spirits those teachers those
plants and and you are you able to
facilitate it without go
into that that state well yeah so so
personally we do actually do a lot of
stuff that doesn't involve plant
medicine like I said you know we'll do
wilderness retreats and expeditions and
a lot of the things that we do are
actually kind of helping people just
just facilitating people diving into
their own stuff going in we're learning
how to to connect with themselves you
don't need plant medicine really to go
in and look at the stories and things
you created and sometimes it helps to do
those things first and then implant
medicine as as a next step so you have a
springboard yeah and in terms of all of
that like when I first you know went to
me I felt like it was really clear to me
I'm and I remember the moment and the
ceremony and everything where it
happened like it was really clear I was
in an ayahuasca ceremony and I was being
told really clearly we want you to work
with these plants this this particular
type of plant we want you to start out
with this particular type of plant we
want you to start facilitating don't go
back to Germany like I was living in
Germany at the time don't go to Germany
go straight to youth that and start
doing the stuff there and and I actually
had sort of an argument with the plants
like no yeah and lost that argument so
that's kind of where that started and
and in my process and you know you start
working with the shamans down on
Columbia and they were teaching a lot of
things about how they work with the
medicine and different things as as far
as you know learning how to be a hollow
bone is kind of the terminology that
I'll use which is I feel like that an
effective facilitator your job as a
facilitator is number one to hold a safe
clear clean container to get out of your
own way to get out of their way and to
recognize one of the things that I
recognized very early on is
that you know I'm not I'm not the the
one who's doing the the healing I'm not
the one doing like people's ancestors
were showing up people's you know their
guides and angels whatever whatever it
was for them there were definitely that
in fact there were times when I remember
seeing somebody was in a really
difficult place they were just you know
struggling and tripping hard and and
walking across the room like I gotta go
help this person through this process
and I get halfway across and that was
like this unseen thing just stopped me
right in the middle of it and said we
got this go sit down
I hate and I oh and I all of a sudden I
became aware that there's there's other
beings in in the room and I'm like and
that's why I started to learn to get
present to those energies going into
ceremony space and really creating an
awareness for those energies another
time I was in I was in Colombia and was
working you know that the show was down
there they were they were doing a
ceremony they were in the maloca I had
just got done with this really intense
purging a lot of stuff cleaned up
cleaning out puking my guts out thirsty
just like I need a lot or any water and
so I went into the maloca and it and in
the maloca there working with somebody
on on the ground they had this person
laid out and they were had crystals and
they had some stones and some things
that they were doing and she was kind of
doing her thing like you know shaking
her her Leafs over the over the person
and her daughter was standing there who
she works with her daughter and they
facilitate together certain times and
the water was in there on the shelf
behind him and I'm just I'm not even
thinking about like I'm just like ah has
just one water and hey grab the grab the
water went into that space where they
were working grab the water pour myself
a cup and start start drinking it was my
left hand start drinking the cup
I get halfway through and I just felt
something grab my hand like this like
also the cup starts shaking and her
daughter looks at me she looks right to
my left like there's somebody standing
there looks at me again she reaches over
and she takes the cup out of my hand
like looking at me like you're in
trouble right and and my hand just went
like this and I went into an armlock
behind my back and I like I felt this
determinate and walked me out of the
maloca like these are so when I say that
there's experiences that I've had that
are just unquestionable for me there's
something going on and it took me
outside of the loka walking outside
turned me in a circle three times and
laid me down on the grass and it was
really like the message was really clear
respect the space were working here and
and and it was it it was also like not
not just respect to space it was also
because if you are gonna be working with
these plants if you're gonna be doing
this kind of work you need to get
present to other things that are going
on in the space besides just you know
I'm so thirsty or whatever it is it's
going on for you you need to get a
little bit more awareness in your space
and so that that was like a lesson for
me that really really drilled it in and
so those kinds of experiences like I'm
there's no question for me that there
that there's something beyond the four
senses that there's energies there
working with us or intelligences I don't
have any conjecture or stories or
anything that I make up about what those
are but I do it's unquestionable to me
that that it's their concern and
marijuana I know you say you've taught
it a couple of times it just doesn't
agree well with you or whatever the case
is you said I had those encounters as
well like um I'm a smoke man
childhood and teenage years I was
smoking marijuana daily or whatever the
case is and then got to a place where
like it it started messing with me I'm
making making it hard to breathe I
turned pale hearts racing and just kind
of messing with my body
happened to me twice woke up when like
the next day after having this panic
attack that last four to three hours you
know woke up the next day and felt
different something you know the
neurotransmitters got burnt out or
something happened with that the
marijuana and so every time I would
smoke that would happen even just one
hit would send me into this weird spell
very scary and ended up like grow and
that was like a thing that happened when
I was 1516
growing up I eventually would talk to
the people who would say yeah I can't
smoke weed it does just in my body I had
to go to the hospital from smoking weed
no it's okay I'm not alone there's other
people and then with the internet you're
able to look up and say okay this other
people have depersonalization you know
after smoking marijuana they'd smoke
every day but then this one time they
smoked they every day feel like they're
stuck in a dream state and it happened
to me when I was 15 took me a long time
to I think it still had an effect on me
even today like it things of what
happened I'm 35 you know what happened
when I was 15 smoking pot I don't know
whether I'm saying a young mind you were
too mine wasn't developed and doing all
that or whatever burnt the
neurotransmitters out so now when I
guess when I smoked it it it has a
certain type of effect on me I try to do
it recently I had some friends come over
and they were smoking and I tried to
take a couple hits and and took a little
bitty piece of a edible and are the same
thing and like the weird the grinding
sensation like I'm putting through the
grinder and I'm having to make myself
breathe and I'm turning pale and I'm
throwing up and it was a bad like it was
very scary I hated it I made the best
out of it you know because I it was a
life review because you feel like you're
gonna die it was like a bad trip you
know on weed and uh you know and I'll go
online the next day and I read all of
this different stuff for people of
trying edibles and they're having those
experiences on edibles that I had from
just smoking
but it's that that life review you feel
like you're gonna die and then y'all you
automatically start thinking about you
know what what I should have done better
what I could've did but you having a
life of you I might I you know my
daughter my wife my family my career my
friends like what can I do better so you
you get up the next day with like a
refreshed renewed vision like I got
another chance at life I cheated death
every day on the side of eternity is a
blessing you know so there's that
gratitude that comes from just life in
general hopefully that you know people
eventually get that because gratitude is
the best the you know is the best
medicine really of approaching anything
so did you ever have those kind of
experiences like because it when you was
explaining the thing was the iboga that
had something very similar to that when
you said marijuana didn't really agree
with you you just like the way it made
you feel or did you have similar yeah I
mean I tried marijuana twice and this
was you know years I just tried it
recreationally with you know some
friends and this was before I'd ever
done anything with with ayahuasca or
before I woke up to anything and it just
like the first time I tried it like I
couldn't speak and I didn't like that so
I was like I didn't like the fact people
would talk to me and I would I would all
of a sudden like come back to the
conversation and oh you didn't know what
they were talking about it couldn't
remember what they had just said you
know I hated that the second time I
tried it it actually I vomited as if it
was like yeah drink drinking too much
and you know throwing up and having a
hangover and things like that and so I
was like I asked I have since then I've
used Stevie CDB oil you know very very
sparingly
you know I've used it when I was dealing
with anxiety a while back and that I
found that very helpful kind of help me
deal with was there a high off of it
because they say the CBD that most
extracts don't have the THC yeah this
one had THC
the problem right they say no I don't
get too high and you get it and you're
freakin blow it out of your mind
yeah and it was it was it was not a
negative experience it's not something
that I particularly enjoyed it's not
something I would do recreationally and
I think and I think my thought is and
this this may or may not be the case and
it you know I think it's worth
considering my thought is is that a lot
of people are abusing marijuana like
marijuana again it's a relationship with
intelligence yeah yeah and if you're if
you're using it as a means of escape or
if you're using it as a way to to cope
with or to not have to cope with things
you know you can do that you know and
that's what I was using tobacco for
tobacco is a sacred plant Tabac was a
very powerful giant they use it in
ceremonies to for to create protection
for cleansing for clearing tobacco is
will cloak you okay and so and I had a I
was a native guy Lakota guy that I did
peyote with one time and he was talking
about tobacco knishes
he says tobacco this isn't what causes
cancer guys he says if you ever wondered
why some people can sit and puff like a
chimney and they live to be a hundred
and ten and other people you know smoke
a couple cigarettes a day and they die
of lung cancer and the 25 he's like it's
because of what tobacco is is among
other things it's an amplifier so Native
people traditionally use tobacco for a
couple things number one that the
peace-pipe
right what they would do actually is
when they would come together in council
or when when two people would meet
especially people from from different
tribes before anybody spoke a [Â __Â ]
word they would pull out the pipe light
it smoke pass and the reason for that
was because their understanding of it
was the tobacco
we'll reveal if you're not telling the
truth right you in other words there's
consequences to not speaking truthfully
once you've smoked tobacco right so
that's the first thing that you support
they also use it for prayers because
they believe that tobacco so they would
actually burn pie you know either smoke
it or burn it on is an incense to carry
their prayers up to creator because they
believe that you know that tobacco would
carry that and the way this guy
explained it is the back was an
amplifier of your intention your
intentions everything you think and say
and speak is in some form of Prayer so
if you are like energy in your body in
your energetic field and you're
amplifying it with with tobacco then
it's going to eventually cause cancer or
you know something destructive
and on and if you are like the people
who tend to live to be a hundred and ten
and they're smoking the pipe every day
are usually the people that are going
out there and sitting down if you know I
mean this is kind of exaggerated imagery
but they're kind of sitting on their
porch with her with every pipe and
enjoying a little a little smoke and
just enjoying and appreciating the day
and that's the energy that they're
putting out in the universe and that's
coming back to them you know so then
this guy said he said I used to smoke
cigarettes all the time and he says my
grandmother told me you shouldn't use
the tobacco that way she says she says
in the morning when the Sun comes up go
sit down light up a cigarette as the Sun
comes up greet the Sun give thanks to
creator for all your blessings when the
sun goes down she says go out light up
another cigarette same thing gives
thanks for a beautiful day or whatever
that's the kind of relationship you
should have with tobacco and when he did
that he said it totally changed his life
in the way he related with me so you
know I think you you you get to choose
what your relationship is going to be
but there are consequences to those
choices
yeah I abused the hell out of it and uh
as a kid as a kid and it was my escape
and now I have other things that are my
escape
right and more positive for me you know
what I'm saying you can use it as an
expand I mean you know it's almost like
the quick fix and you abuse anything you
need more of it alcohol you know I'm
saying sex like pornography you just
have to have more and more in extreme
and extreme extreme they're the stuff
you used to look at don't do it for you
anymore you need something else and so
anytime there's like a quick fix man
it's never the way to go and you got to
work through your stuff on on every
level and I think that's the the you
know I'm saying the main essence of even
dealing with the plant medicines just
work through your stuff and there's a
lot of things a lot of people a lot of
spirits that will help you and want to
help you and have your back
one last question for you man because I
noticed on your website there's a lot of
a lot of emphasis on the tribe aspect
and so we've kind of formed our tribe
and there's a quote you know my vibe
attracts my tribe and so there's a lot
of people who feel marginalized and like
they're all alone they don't have nobody
that believed in similar things that
they do nobody to talk about their
experiences or whatever that's why I
created the podcast and that's why like
outside of it we have community we have
different apps on your phone well we
just connect it with people and it's
beautiful they helps a lot of people how
important is it for us to find a tribe
or community of people to grow with oh
man yeah this is this is a topic that is
really near and dear to my heart and
part of it is part of that is because of
the way I grew up for for all of the you
know the the negative aspects of my
upbringing and for Matt one of the
things that we did have more than most
people was we had a community we had
more of a sense of community more of a
something that you belonged to that
sense of belonging is I think that's
inherent in being human as part of you
know the way we evolved I mean wolves
wolves pack lion's pride humans tribe
and and we like to think that we have
transcended our primitive origins
I think we have a very call it a sweet
home alabama' syndrome right like the
way we relate to ourselves and our where
we like Oh oh my god I I was born in
this podunk town in Alabama thank God I
escaped from that and made it to New
York and I'm so above all of that [Â __Â ]
and I'm not you know this hillbilly and
I changed my accent and everything when
the reality is for us to really go to
the next level as human beings whether
we're talking individually or
collectively we get to go back to all
the things that we've judged and made
wrong and we get to remember who we are
where we come from and and love those
parts of ourselves and I I think that
especially now more than ever when you
look at the crises that we face you know
Humanity is facing ecologically
spiritually politically there's this
there's all economically there's so many
things that I think are coming together
to create almost like a perfect storm
and I think that finding community
finding people that you can belong to
and finding a place on this earth that
you belong to I think those things are
critical you talked earlier earlier in
the podcast you said something about you
know going back to your childhood home
and how those things are no longer you
know that longing that you have is more
it's more than just some sort of
psychological you know [Â __Â ] that you got
to deal with you we really something
yeah when you're a kid like you knew
every inch of your backyard the land I
grew up on we had like 20 acres out near
the mountains and land I grew up on like
I knew every Rock every sagebrush I knew
where are the ant hills were I was
connected to that land you know children
are inherently indigenous but we have
this culture that really just chops you
off at the root and there's a lot of
grief uncle
just grief unprocessed grief that we
have that's not being dealt with not
being processed not being felt and if
it's more important than we realize
for us to start to reconnect back to
those aspects of ourselves to our tribe
to you know some some place on the earth
and really establishing that connection
and I think tribe is I think it's gonna
be actually an essential aspect of the
way that humanity moves forward over the
next hundred years is starting to
recover sort of a what I would call a
tribe seeds
yeah there's movements and scenes and
things popping up that uh welcome people
I mean and that's that's why I like
again like taking advantage of the
technology like the apps and things that
connect us and we use discord and so
anybody needs to prayer anybody needs
just someone to talk to hello hey I'm
not Bhama even though I feel alone I can
just in this happen and you know I'm
saying yes or whatever the case is I can
talk to the local shaman he's in discord
hanging out you know yeah and and even
besides everything you know like what I
just talked about what you're talking
about there also is I found that and
that's one of the reasons why I started
putting more of an emphasis on tribe and
communities because I I found for me
first of all when I went to Peru the
first time did ayahuasca flip my world
upside down
was the most profound experience of my
life up to that point and I came back to
the little town in Germany where I was
living and there was nobody like there
was not a single soul that I could talk
to that understood what was going on for
me what I was going through there was I
had nobody and that was really hard like
naive and my wife she wasn't in
community you there's you could still
feel isolated right yeah and so like
when I finally did discover other people
who were on similar paths as me and
discovering you know it was like oh my
god what a breath of fresh air there's
somebody I can bounce things off of and
I
fine like a lot of people come they come
for the transformation but they tend to
stick around for the community yeah
we're hungry fast we need that that's
interesting so just because you have
community doesn't mean that you're
thriving in it or you're growing
together I mean all religions exist as a
form of community the best way for like
cult leaders is to get people is to
welcome them in yes yes and tell them
hey you know positive affirmations that
they've never heard have been called
stupid their whole life and I here's
this charismatic person welcoming them
into community and just because it's
beyond their natural need for community
cults feet on that natural need and and
really like people ask me all the time
like well you know what about cults and
things like that for me
cult cultivate culture all this these
root words right comment and and the
difference between a cult and a culture
is in my in my perspective quite simply
the ability to think and choose for
yourself there you go yeah right but
they're not that much different cult is
you know we're afraid of people talk
about tribalism as if it's a negative
thing and there is a dark side to
tribalism there is it leads to feudalism
it leads to taking sides it leads to you
know my people are better than your
people most native tribes the meaning of
the name that they gave themselves it
almost every tribe called themselves the
people right and they had and so and
then the names that they gave other
tribes so when when the Europeans came
in like we call we call him the Iroquois
by nation well they call themselves the
hota Shawnee Holden Holden of Shawnee
that's their name for themselves the
people right
we called him Iroquois which was an
Algonquin word the Algonquin gave to the
Iroquois because they were their enemies
and it was like an insult right soon the
Lakota they call themselves Lakota but
the other tribes called them Sioux which
was an insult
Navajo they
themselves a DNA DNA but Navajo was an
insult so it's like there is this aspect
of tribalism where it's like we're the
people and everybody else's your snakes
and grass but I think that rather than
just dismissing tribalism off hand you
know in one swipe because of those
negative aspects and because of the way
that sometimes we tend to get into a
very narrow way of seeing things there
are ways to offset that create your
community create your tribe and then
create tribal exchange programs you know
where you go out and you spend a couple
years when you come of age living with
another community and trying on
different points of view and you go on a
walkabout and you come back to your
community with you know years of
different perspectives that augment an
experiment like there's that's just one
idea there's a lot of ways that we could
address this thing but I'm just saying
tribalism is bad and and leads to cult
mentality and all that [Â __Â ] let's look
at let's look at the positive aspects of
that and see because I think that a big
part of what is missing in the world
today it we're gonna find those things
to argue it we're gonna go pick camps of
Democrats and Republicans and and throw
this an anti-type anyway yeah right so
so rather than go okay let's be
globalists and and remove ourselves from
that community and that thing that gives
us a sense of belonging we're hungry for
that we're craving that we miss that
it's like growing up without without a
dad even if you never knew your dad
they're still a missing for you when you
look at other people who have dads yeah
like ah the same thing is there for us
with tribe there's a missing for us yeah
we're just not conscious to it yeah man
I almost wanted to do a documentary on
this or something but just to show
people like looking at far as culture is
concerned looking at
like middle America like the white
suburban family how disconnected they
are from their neighbors and from their
neighborhood or whatever looking at that
and even around here whatever it's kind
of the same thing like I know who they
are but there's no it's not community
but I come from I come from the trailer
park I come from the little
hole-in-the-wall trailer park where we
you'd walk around and everybody knew
each other and you'd knock on somebody's
door if you needed bread or milk or
whatever the case says and it was there
was even though you wasn't like this it
was still a community you interacted
with those people who live you know
around the corner or whatever the case
is looking at that that's why I come
from and then I I grew up on the on the
reservation of the porch Creek Indians
in port Alabama lived on the reservation
for several years in the community and
we had different housing projects as
what they would call him but they were
on the reservation and if we would go to
each one and all the kids would hang out
and the families knew each other and
stuff and so now like the only glimpse
we I really get into to that as far as
what I've created and I've long I have
that log in for that so I created with
technology with the people around me
that I that I can do get together you
know periodically or whatever create it
that way versus you know only
experiencing it for East Christmas and
Thanksgiving you know and you've come
together with family and you travel and
you're there with each other versus like
that being something that's always there
like if we look at you know I'm saying
the Mexican people to Spanish people
like even here in America whether
they're working or they have a goal
together like there's trailers with like
25 Mexican people living in the trailer
and they all pay 25 dollars a month
because they don't come together pull
their money live together that's their
community they drink they work they do
their thing and that's how they operate
but they are a community they're
functioning in there and it's working
for them there's building money sending
money home spending money here but
always got nice vehicles I guess that's
the community that grandmother usually
lives with them right versus your
grandmother's in a home down the road
you know if your grandmother lives with
you and the family
would live together and then being like
really big in the hip hop as a kid and
obsessed with black culture like I was
really like I would we would walk
through the hood for fun because it was
like I got to kind of see what it looked
like inside the the projects like like a
movie I would watch I would watch
gangster movies and be obsessed with
that and obsessed with the music but I
literally can go there and see the
community that if you have one person on
the corner having a cookout everybody's
invited
and they're drinking they're playing
dominoes they're telling stories you
know they are stay still have that
community versus the suburban white
family who just has them in their family
on Christmas and Easter or Thanksgiving
or whatever the case is I would like to
even do a documentary just to show
people I mean obviously if we look at it
we can we can see if we zoom in but it
is a huge disconnect when it comes to
suburban white families or whatever the
case is you know it's something that's
lost and in that same way with thinking
about my childhood friends and childhood
homes and it doesn't exist anymore I get
this weird feeling when I Drive past
trailer parks now I look at a trailer
park and like man you know I missed the
trailer park you know I miss I missed
the community man do you know what I'm
saying yeah yeah absolutely you know the
land that I grew up on eventually got
turned into neighborhoods over the last
10 years like you know it was it was
just it was raw land and then now it's
all curb and gutter lawns and McMansions
and and there's a there's a real sadness
for me featuring a loss down yeah yeah
just a loss of of that connection to
that to that land and also you know you
talk about the community I mean I I
lived in Costa Rica for almost a year
and then I lived in Germany in that
small town that my wife is from for a
number of years six four years one time
six years another time so yeah the
community in Costa Rica that I lived in
this was back in 2009 2010 it was a
Moscow
Sarika is very touristy and full of
tourist attractions but there's one area
down there in the area called pet
essentially dawn and its kind of
secluded from the mountain ranges kind
of cut it off from the rest of Costa
Rica so unless you have a really good
reason to go there's not a lot of
tourists but it's a very agricultural
area so I was living in this in this
neighborhood in this community where you
know if people
it was cane sugar so there's like this
harvest season and when it's harvest
season money's flowing people are at the
cantina
you know everybody's drinking and have a
good time and money's flowing around the
rest of the year
money's really tight in fact it's so
tight you go down to the little bodega
at a little store that they have they
called pool areas and they would you
know you can buy cigarettes one at a
time you they open up a pack of flour
and repackage it into little single
serve things because you can't afford to
buy the whole pack of flour right and
that community and also Costa Rica did
not have their infrastructure set up so
there was no cell phone service there's
none of that stuff and it was there was
a real community there like the downside
of that was it was it was gossip central
like everybody talked about everybody if
I took yeah you know the whole town knew
about it ten ten minutes later but
especially because I was a gringo
everybody was talking about me all the
time they were making up [Â __Â ] about me
that wasn't even true but the flip side
of that was like people were there for
each other in a really real way and and
everybody that you didn't just walk into
the Pope area and go grab your stuff and
go you went in and you were greeting
everybody and greeting with handshakes
and kiss on the cheek and stopping and
having a conversation and that was what
was important yeah it's that happens man
and some of those I don't know if it's
still in that neighborhood but like you
get a glimpse of it if you've been
removed you're going to store and
there's a people talking to everybody
and it makes you feel weird cuz you're
not connected like that anymore in this
part just random like what having a
conversation
some people panic I do sometimes yeah
the stranger trying to hold a
conversation like oh wait
we're not used to that kind of intimacy
you know and and they say good fences
make good neighbors and I say I don't
know about I think good fences make it
so you don't have to deal with your [Â __Â ]
yeah good fences make it so you don't
have to deal with the discomfort of
being intimate intimate and close with
somebody or having to open up and share
or having to deal with you know the
shadow your own shadow which is gonna
come up if your interact with somebody
over an extended period of time is
guaranteed you know super powerful man
um let me ask you this too just just in
closing because you do these retreats
and stuff and so you deal with a lot of
entrepreneurs right and and in helping
them people who are already successful
is there a reason for that or is it is
and and and I'm wondering is is it
because of cost like someone who isn't
successful might not be able to pay or
afford a trip like that because it you
know they could be kind of pricey or is
there a certain way of just helping
people connect who are already
established how does that work for you
and in the pursuit so Anthea preneur is
something that it just that's kind of
the direction that it evolved for me
like those were the kind of people that
started coming to like I worked with
somebody and he went home and brought
his friend and like it just there was
just like this door that opened and
these people started coming from that
realm and it was like oh this is kind of
a niche that sort of created itself but
I we actually have done ceremonies and
we did those actually for a very long
time we did a pay what you can sort of
format because I feel like and we still
offer those from time to time I feel
like it's really important to
acknowledge I mean the gift that I
received that that we can receive from
these plants is priceless money there's
no money that can can you know buy that
really you know yeah I mean that the
price
nature that gets too big nose and in
fact you know for me I had to it was it
was a really challenging thing for me to
to navigate and figure out because for a
long time like I was out there doing
medicine ceremonies and I was struggling
to get by I couldn't feed my family you
know but I was just doing it like I was
doing like you know pay which can I was
in it's a really typical heater
mentality like I gotta go out and I
gotta heal the world and save the world
and my own expense and my family's
expense and everything else and it
wasn't till I had some health crises and
some things that sort of kicked my ass
that made me look at it know you know my
body was littered when I looked at the
messages of the body
it was literally look you have an
overdeveloped sense of responsibility to
community and cosmos at the expense of
yourself so I have but my daughter's
trying to get on here long enough go
ahead and plug your your links man if
somebody wants to go on the excursion
with you and they want to look into it
your website and all that good stuff
going and plugging stuff real quick
before we go here awesome thank you yeah
so the website if you want to check that
out is WWN vo printer comm so that's en
th EO p r e and e you are an theo
printer calm and yeah you just you know
check that out there's a place that
where you can click join our next
adventure and you can submit your
information and we get in touch we we go
from there and other than that you know
you can find me on Facebook I really
actually haven't been on Facebook that
much these days but usually Facebook
Instagram is a great way to find me and
thank you so much great conversation
conversation in the beginning and the
end man just put both sides the tribe
and the plant medicines man we
they went in and some good good
information so I enjoyed it man we'll
have to do it again sometime soon
brother thank you so much for coming on
awesome thank you so much as a pleasure
I brother Levi dagmer ladies and
gentlemen and his daughter there at the
end good stuff this was like a master
class which is like a plant medicine
master class and that may be what I call
this episode the plant medicine master
class good stuff we went in on a lot of
good stuff and especially with the tribe
thing the tribe comes in it's big too
you know finding those people that you
can resonate with finding your your your
family you know those those people who
your ride or die people in your
community um one thing we mentioned I
was talking about death a little bit
enough I've brought that notion up as
well sometimes I deal with it man you
know just being honest and sometimes I
just had to go to the scriptures and see
what the scripture says about death and
being absent from the body is present
with the Lord and how he has prepared
mansions and I have this understanding
of death just because man just the
beauty of this life even if you get a
mansion I the mansion is cool it's not
my trailer it's not my trailer park like
I you know what I'm saying like it's um
man this life is so beautiful this I
don't think it's in the middle on you
guys but the chat you know everybody I'm
looking at the chat and I know you guys
from different places and we have
different experiences together and I
enjoy your company I enjoy your
conversations I enjoy your family you
know and then um for that not to exist I
mean that happens some people you know
only walk with you so far and they leave
and you never hear from them again even
that like yesterday man this song it
comes in waves for me man you know it
but it's real it's authentic um you know
so everything you do has the last time
and sometimes you don't know it and I'm
thinking let me just be open and honest
man
and I Adam here in the comment I don't
know like I guess I'm afraid of death
you know I don't want to die I'm
enjoying this there's always the last
time and I've seen a mean at one point
you and your friends went outside to
play for the last time but none of you
knew it it was the last time you didn't
know it I am thinking like you know just
the little things man are so beautiful
especially when you've been so deep your
whole life it's - it's it's the little
things and you see the beauty and see
God in everything and yesterday I was
just thinking like asking my daughter
like we've been doing the daddy-daughter
dance every year probably the last four
years now
and it's beautiful to go dance with your
daughter my daughter's growing up
she's like taller than me now so I'm
gonna have to look up to her you know
dancing you know all these little stuff
it's like and I asked her cuz I'm like
well maybe she don't want to go maybe
she's getting too old maybe I don't want
to go like I'm trying to you know
rationalize everything then I asked her
on on the way home I like I'm thinking
about like do you want to go this year
cuz just coming up you want to go to the
daddy-daughter dance she's like sure
yeah and but then part of me was like
you gotta go cuz you never you never
know what's gonna be the the last time
you went like when was the last
daddy-daughter dance well when she was
14
11 10 whatever when you stop doing it
some dad's don't even bring they don't
even they don't even do it's not
important to them don't even asked her
the kids if they want to go to something
like that you know maybe whatever it is
but it's just always like a last time
you did something man when's the last
the last time you did it but you don't
know it doing it you just carry on
didn't you look up and in years of
passed by it was the last time you
talked to somebody I got um I got a
bunch of friends like when I hung up the
phone with you I didn't know it was
gonna be three years when you know
and not not talking to you not out of
anger or hurt or whatever just life time
time is something that was time I'll
have its way with you there was all
there's always this lyric from from
blindside the bandits lyric says time
will change your heart
but I'll be waiting at the door steps
with love time has a way of dealing with
people hard hearted people time Hazzard
time can harden your heart
time can break your heart and I look at
stability it's big to me man
it's big to me as someone who's coming
up who didn't have a lot of stability
now I need it we need it you know I
didn't have a dad consistent in my life
they were mom's boyfriend's coming in
for a week two weeks three weeks two
months we'd move in with them for a week
we'd move out we was moving all the time
we'd go to a school we pack up and go to
another school because we moved to a new
district with a new boyfriend
there's new people there was no
stability I demand stability I need it I
require it I know how important it is to
my family to you guys we need stability
in our lives and not just to be blown
around by just whatever circumstances
are whatever a pink people's opinions
are or whatever the case is or their
their triggers are to really be able to
stand for what you believe in and and
have comfort in who you are in your
future you know what I'm saying all of
this stuff it makes sense to me now
and it's I don't want to make you guys
feel bad I hope I'm not trying to like
articulate it so that you get what I'm
saying when it comes to this stuff but
I'm I appreciate the little things man I
appreciate the little things in life and
and I approach everything with an
attitude of gratitude but doing that has
maybe sent me in this sentimental state
that I'm so sensitive maybe it's just a
certain time period maybe it's a state
of being that only
asked for a little while but being
appreciative of it I'm preciate 'iv I
know it sounds crazy I appreciate it
with it of the taste of chocolate why
well just think of that when you pass
there was gonna be a time that you was
the last time you ate chocolate you know
the last time you watched a good movie
the last time you were scared the last
time you held your lover in your in in
your arms there's gonna be the last time
there's gonna be the last time you kiss
your kid you tell your kid you love them
like all of this man there's gonna be
the last time for it all I cherish every
moment with everyone I try I try to make
people laugh when I'm in their company I
try to I try to ease that burden I try
to listen I try to find ways that I can
help you know and make their their
experience a little bit more pleasing a
little bit more easier there's the last
time for everything
and if you think about it maybe it will
freak you out maybe because I'm just so
sensitive it just freaks me out at times
man
Alley Graham says brother by the way
brother by the time we all take our
final breath I think we'll all be ready
and the reward of this journey will
continued a new one that's a fear let's
address that you know of being ready
that's scary I can't lie to you I picked
up a dude the other day man and this and
this made me think about it maybe this
triggered it let's just say this I went
to the ATM I went to the ATM and I just
set the story up maybe I gave somebody
in the last twenty dollars data we had
in the car like my ear was 20 bucks in
the car and I there was a family with a
sign at Walmart saying you know need gas
money or food I didn't have a chance to
read the whole thing I just knew they
were in need and I knew that was the $20
bill there passed him up I gave it to
him my wife needs cash for school and
stuff with my daughter and stuff like
that I was like you know what I need to
go over your plate that's my wife I
didn't put that $20 bill there
even though I gave it away you know
sounds like let me go to the ATM get $20
and put it back in
so my wife gets in and needs it it's not
there you know so I went to the ATM and
I went and got 20 bucks out and I'm I
seen this this black dude across the
street he's you know I don't know I
don't know how to explain him he's like
a I don't want to you know profile say
like a thug but he look like I mean he's
just a black dude I don't know it is in
that subject to heal a random black guy
walking down the street you know and I
seen him he was across the street and
I'm at the ATM and I turn around and
he's four feet away from me in between
me and my car and I'm just come from the
ATM in his Abril I need a ride I could
have just got $20,000 of cash out I
could have got a thousand a hundred in
the dude and maybe this is what he does
maybe walks up and down the road and
waits for people to go to the ATM like
and it took it just took me by surprise
I'm like damn I got money in my pocket
it's only 20 bucks you know but he don't
know that he say man I need a ride I'm
trying to get a job and so so he said
man I ain't on no [Â __Â ] man but I
ain't know no [Â __Â ] I'm trying to get
a job and I just went for my interview I
just need a ride around the corner he's
like trust me man I ain't on no Bush I'm
just thinking like I said I said bro out
oh no man sorry man let's go get in the
car
and I'm right I roll the windows down
okay it makes a you lock me in my car
just pull a pistol out of water you know
it's reality I'm I judge every situation
like that I try I try my best to like be
aware of my surroundings if if danger
happens how we can I can protect my
family or protect myself or my friends
if danger happens and like crazy like
that's a weird thing to even uh you know
I position myself in a certain way
missus how I was raised I guess I don't
know but anyway I was a nervous man you
know and and I couldn't help but think
of what if this dude pulls a pistol out
you know in the car with me some random
guy you know I told my wife and she
freaked out anyway I took him where he
needed to be and asked me where you know
I thought he can get a job and all that
kind
stuff but um you know that could have
been that could have been my last call
rod that could have been my last time at
the ATM therefore that being said Allie
you say that I think the time we all
breathe our last breath will be ready I
don't know I'm not gonna be ready I
don't think I'll ever be ready some
people and this is crazy y'all some
people go to the grave kicking and
screaming freaking out they don't want
to leave I don't want to leave I don't
want it to be the last time I don't want
to kiss my wife for the last time it's
inevitable is it maybe we'll carry on on
the other side but being ready
my wife spected me to go to the store
we'll see you've been ready if I if I
didn't return home because I got shot
you know or you get in your car to go
you know God forbid pick your daughter
up from school and you're getting a
wreck and where's dad he never showed up
was she ready when we got out when I
dropped off this morning I told her I
loved her
that you know was the last time and this
is cryptic or whatever but it's reality
you know you don't know when the last
time is I don't think anybody's ready
for the last we don't we can't and I say
that because we can't prepare for our
deaths like we'd like to we'd like to I
live life like I'm prepared I try to
live life with that much gratitude and
Thanksgiving and walking in the spirit
and trying to be open and honest and
helping people like I'm I try to stay
prepared that way and so every minute
that I have now is a blessing I should
have been dead a long time ago
I should have been dead so every minute
on this side of eternity those
near-death experience
has changed people for a reason they
thought it was over
though psilocybin encounters those
mushroom encounters they changed people
for a reason but did you die thought you
were in the look I'm telling you it's
the little things the little things I
don't want it to be the last time man I
don't I'm sorry I don't know if that's
weak or I'm afraid to domina no it's
just you're not gonna get it you don't
get you know yes this is it I enjoy my
life I can save you if you're depressed
and you're in you just look at life like
it's sucks and you don't care you're
just in a situation you want to change
yeah take me out let me try it again
it's got to be better on the other side
I I'm in a realm of what everything put
together I really enjoy life all of it
all of it they're good I've moved myself
into a psychological position why I
enjoyed the bad stuff I enjoy my dirt I
enjoy learning from I enjoy my demons I
enjoyed learning from them I thank God
that he sent them to teach me I enjoy
the demons enjoy it all this existence
because there's gonna be a realm where
those demons ain't gonna exist those
angels ain't ain't gonna exist that
they're not even in the picture anymore
you're in another realm it's not this
realm again of fear what if what if it's
not as good as this realm what if it's
not as good we're gonna find out we will
find out that's for sure
it's inevitable did let me just tie this
into the whole death is inevitable thing
there's a friend of mine who takes
offense to that he does not believe that
Illuminati Congo does not accept
physical death he believes in physical
immortality that you can live forever
and the only way that you
i it's because you've accepted it you've
been told that hey there comes a time
when you get this age and your body
deteriorate will deteriorate you've
accepted it you believe it so you die
he's on this weird kick with that you do
not die physical death maybe looking at
some of the Yogi's and some of the
people who have lived life of meditation
and they've preserved their bodies and
ascended into rainbow body and all of
these different things that you get to
live forever of physical immortality so
he's in that you know what what if that
means being on earth the whole time or
continuing I don't know his his belief
but he believes that it's a choice to
die you know and I'm reminding I'm
reminded of him believing that because
yesterday my family they bought me a DVD
set of a television show from the 80s
called tales from the darkside and it's
just a bunch of short stories like short
it's a TV series but they're all just
different or whatever like like Twilight
Zone or something so we've been watching
that together as a family so when we
watched yesterday it's pretty cool the
guy comes on and it's a family sitting
around a table or some it's a mom and a
son and grandpa just died and they're
eating like we're gonna miss a man he
was a good man and it's about grandpa
grandpa comes walking down the stairs
and he looks a little they got a bunch
of makeup on him he looks a little old
or whatever he sits down with them what
are you looking at I walked my breakfast
like grandpa what are you doing here you
died I didn't die grandpa you you died
last night no I didn't don't tell me
that are you a ghost
grandpa what are you a apparition I'm me
and he's like he's there eating
breakfast with them and they're freaking
out like grandpa you're dead I'm not
dead
y'all want me to be dead but I'm not
dead I'm not dead yet I would know what
if I was dead
they're eating breakfast too like what
how was a grandpa you know here with us
he died last night so they're trying to
convince grandpa that he's dead the
pastor comes over the preacher the next
day or just maybe it was a couple hours
later and the preacher comes there and
he's talking with grandpa but by this
time a few hours of grandpa starting to
deteriorate a little bit he's starting
to uh you know his skin is looking a
little bit more sagging and droopy and
bags under the eyes and he's changing
color his hair is falling out a little
bit and the preachers like you know
grandpa so-and-so you died last night
and you're just stubborn you won't you
won't believe it
he's like no I don't believe I didn't
die why y'all telling me y'all want me
to die and I'm I'm alive as I've ever
been and he's there he can claim himself
it's really grandpa but he's
deteriorating and everybody's trying to
tell him he's dead but he won't believe
it he's like nope
I'm not dead what you know that's a
whole realm of thinking about ghosts and
spirits that are trapped on this plane
of existence and they don't know they've
died like the sixth sense the movie
sixth sense you know he didn't know that
he died spoiler alert if you haven't
seen it yet you're you know but still
watch it it's a great movie the you know
spirits that don't know that they've
died and you can help them cross over by
like hey it's okay it's okay hopefully I
won't be one of them you know I don't
want to die I don't I want to stay here
that I'm just gonna linger
I'm just feeling connection with you
people I'm gonna be with y'all you know
who knows but uh you know and then it
progresses where the next you know hours
later or the next day whatever they're
having dinner with well the kid goes to
see a fortune-teller to try to see if
she can help him with with Grandpa
crossing over and she's I knew you
Grandpop up of a bunch she gives them
this elixir or whatever anyway goes back
home grandpa's like looking bad he looks
like a walking dead he looks better than
a walking dead zombie and this was back
in the 80s as far as like the makeup and
the costume and stuff it looks looks
like a zombie they're sitting there
eating and she gave him this
um handkerchief with this special powder
in it and she shows that he showed it to
his mom said this is what she gave me to
give to him
she's you've been fooled that
fortune-teller was a fraud that's just
black pepper that's just black pepper no
no she said it was a special elixir gave
it to uh to Grandpa grandpa takes two he
has to wipe his face or something and he
gives him the handkerchief he opens it
up he's like what's this in here and
it's all the black it's literally black
pepper he goes to sneeze huh huh but Jew
into the into the napkin and his nose
comes off and he looks in it he's okay I
guess I really am dead he just stands up
and like walks back upstairs and it ends
and he could see that the nose is
anyways there's all these short stories
but and it just reminded me either
watching that you know Illuminati Congo
the only way you die is if you believe
that you die you can live forever you
have you know the whole thing with
Christ man he's defeated death he has
given you everlasting life like those
are the hopes that we have in Christ
like we're gonna live forever we're
gonna be conscious of eternity it's
gonna be something beautiful you know
you have everlasting life it lasts
forever you know very very interesting
just to just to look at all of these
different angles and see how it fits in
but life is precious life is short
there's a lie I believe it's a lie the
whole past life regression and what were
you in the second life and what are you
going to be when you leave here I have
friends who struggle with depression I
have friends who struggle with suicide
who entertained the idea of suicide I
used when I was a teenager depressed
teenager I fantasized about how I would
kill myself and all of these different
things right I have friends who do that
now and it bothers me
and when it with the whole reincarnation
and past life thing comes into play they
just feel like it's an it's a choice and
they just get to do it again like yep
it's uh you know I didn't really I did
my best but I'm gonna go ahead and end
it
and this mean I've been seeing people
posting memes about suicide and now like
almost like suicide is an option or a
joke there's a meme of this baby who was
just born and he's looking at the camera
and he looks mad and that's a little
newborn baby in operating room you know
giving birth and he's looking mad and
the meme says uh you know you know when
you commit suicide but then reincarnate
five minutes later he's all mad looking
I wanted to leave here you know
everybody's laughing making jokes and
sharing it like suicides not funny man
death death isn't funny you know it's
inevitable
I don't wouldn't say it's it's funny so
did it just begins to be this thing
where you get to try again I don't know
that you do and I don't think any of us
do know we can entertain the idea we can
get into past life suggestions versus a
regression a suggested memory implanted
memory and something we discussed in the
school of the Mystics the other night I
think it was Adam Star seen here in a
chat but he mentioned the fact that all
of these type of regressions that you're
getting these past lives what if it's
just you're tapping into your DNA and
you're tapping into your ancestral line
it's not you were a king in Egypt but if
your great great great great great
grandfather was what if you are 40 what
if it wasn't you who was a
fortune-teller in Lemuria what if
someone in your ancestral line was and
you're tapping into that DNA and those
memories are coming back that way what
if that's what's happening I personally
would uh you know give that a little bit
more credence than I would the fact that
you know you you have these part these
multiple lives and once you get here you
you know you finish this one you get
that another chance to get it right or
you didn't ascend and so you
can just to keep repeating it over and
over like stuck in a loop until you make
the right decisions or whatever in in
other lives you better get it right this
life don't even don't try I don't even
like why why not like get it right this
life that's what if you are conscious
that you can get it right do it we're
all on a level playing field
well Gandhi he's one who's ascended okay
or you're conscious that there is an
ascension you're conscious that you
could be Gandhi you can overcome your
trials and your tribulations and you can
respond with with peace and grace to
those situations then do it that's
that's the that's the alchemical process
you're aware of it good I mean look at
the matrix people they're not even aware
that they're asleep you're aware that
you're you are woke and you're aware
that there are there is a such thing as
a sentient in people and there's levels
to this didn't make the decisions a
sinned
don't be bound I'll be held back ascend
whatever it is and whatever that means
be the best person that you can be be
the best you that you can be without
regrets without second-guessing who you
are you're calling Ally and the chat
says I'm with that with the blood
remembrance 100 the Bible says that the
you know the life is in the blood the
life is in the blood the blood
remembrance DNA home saw says once we
wake up you will be surprised we have
more work to do
you'll be one of the you'll be one of
the ones that keeps on going yes death
is a choice that you know that song Tim
McGraw live like you're dying you don't
know you're not promised tomorrow it's
not to scare you but it's like make the
best of every situation there's gonna be
a time when it's the last time you held
your wife
the last time you kissed your daughter
the last time you or let's flip it the
last time you cuss somebody out the last
time that you smoked crack you know what
I'm saying all the bad stuff the last
time you robbed somebody the last time
you beat your wife the last time that
you stole like obviously in this life
like there was I have last times for a
lot of that stuff but not smoking crack
but uh you know the last time I smoked
weed the last time I did this and did
that so I have a place to go to but get
it right let it be the last time you did
something beautiful the last time you
paid for somebody's a random person's
bill at a you know at the restaurant the
last time you helped an old lady across
the road the last time you went and
visited the homeless do you remember or
in the chat alley the last time you cut
homeless people's hair alley used to set
up at events and give homeless people
haircuts because 50 people's hair and
were in a day giving homeless people
haircuts tightening them up it was you
know it's been some years there was the
last time you did that not to not to
grieve you know make you grieve over it
maybe it's for good reason there's new
things that come from that but literally
there was the last time man the last
time so shout out to all the the new
listeners that we have every time and
you know it's we just got somebody here
in chats green-and-white Jamie says this
channel must be good because I've seen
Jordan Maxwell on here a few times yeah
every time we do a Jordan Maxwell
interview and maybe that's the reason I
do the Jordan Maxwell interviews is
because it helps me kind of get out
there to a wider audience and he has a
huge fan base so welcome Jamie there's a
lot of more interesting guests and some
more interesting topics that we cover as
well so yeah welcome to the fold Jamie
said that they'd have liked and
subscribed because of the Jordan Maxwell
interviews there you go it's working
networking networking is working the net
is working
the web and nets come on now we talk
about the element of Z of words somebody
else is going in on some words while ago
okay it was Adam starseed who said you
know how we some what colt is you know
you have to work Colt in culture and
agriculture you know and all this stuff
and he said well you know what about the
word a colt
you know the word cult coming you know
is in a cult as well so kind of
interesting home sauce says or you can
exist twice or thrice you're limited how
do you know which one you want you know
even that though even like getting
another chance at this life like I feel
like you'll forget everything I'll
forget my wife I'll forget my daughter I
forget who home sauce is I forget the
love I have from my friends here that
I've built with like I don't want to
forget man so maybe in eternity I get to
remember what I did on earth like Earth
was a testing ground maybe we'll get to
maybe our spirits get to commune in the
afterlife I'd rather that didn't forget
about all of this you know who knows man
I don't I don't think any of us do we
have a glimpses you know and even and
even Levi speaking about all of these
different psilocybin and ayahuasca and
it Bolger and Salvi and all these
different you know plant teachers and
medicines he's you don't know what it is
but it's something something's there
those ghosts they're here for a reason
whether they're just like I've talked
about loops playing over and over a lot
of time ghosts and stuff we see like as
people who have died traumatically or
died instantly and don't know they're
dead or like it's left it was so
traumatic that it burnt an imprint of or
a recording of the way that they died
that just plays on loop I mean a lot of
how people hanging themselves or
somebody
it's always something scary usually you
know my wife went to New Orleans on a
ghost tour and they were saying that
this woman was pushed off of a
or died or whatever at this particular
house my wife claims that she's seen
this girl jump off of the UH off of this
building you know and she's seen it
happening isn't a guy but the guy was
explaining and happening another way and
she's like I feel like I just seen this
happen you know and it's almost like a
loop or recording that stuck dumbledore
says what do you think about reptilian
possession I don't know about reptilian
possession I mean but you know deep
demonic possession you know maybe that's
what you're talking about the same thing
or just you know terminology or whatever
but yeah possession man you know
depression you know who are those
entities what what are they I'll do they
only exist in this realm or is there
just a dimension that you cross over to
when we cross over do we stay on earth
and just live in a another density our
spirits just kind of leave this body and
move on to higher density and we're
still here operating watching over
helping you know ancestral spirits
guarding over your ancestral line
wanting to make contact wanting to help
hoping for the best you know the Bible
talks about the great cloud of witnesses
that are watching over us you know Jesus
had interactions with them he would go
up on the mountains and they would
appear to him his predecessors they
would physically appear and show up and
communicate with him something something
something happens something's there
there is a hope right that that we get
to continue this life and you know maybe
they look the same maybe it really was
their spirits and maybe that's what
happens to us we talked about it in
school of mystics again last week where
you know maybe though they are ascended
masters and those who have ascended and
kind of completed their karmic cycle if
you will then they get to kind of claim
their self in the spirit realm and come
back and forth and deal with people SS
teachers you know we're talking about
possession you have ascended masters who
were teachers who have access to you
from the other side from the grave you
can contact them they can contact you
these are ascended masters what about
the pedophiles
what about the pedophile that died in
your house does he have the ability to
contact you in your sleep what about the
Incubus what about the succubus do they
have power to contact you in your sleep
to mess with you
just because you've crossed over just
because someone's died doesn't mean you
were a good person on the other side it
doesn't mean you were a good person just
because you've ascending you you live
there now I mean even old people man we
look at old people to something tinder
and I look at this grandmother look at
her these old people like somebody's
some of these old people were boy they
did some stuff in their life but not at
their old and feeble and they can't care
for themselves now they're cute or
they're respectable or they are elder
just because you're old don't mean you
have wisdom and on the other hand little
kids are gonna be old people one day too
you know little babies and stuff like
the innocence is gonna be you know
taking man that's weird when was the LAT
when was the time your innocence was
stolen
some of y'all can go back to the moment
when this happened to me when that
happened to me and then this and then
when I seen this and it all you know I
was different I was changed when that
happened and that may seem negative
let's flip it what about the good things
when you came into faith when you had
any psilocybin encounter when you met
Christ whatever you have those and you
have those moments to where you get a
fresh start you get a reset button you
get to push the reset button start over
born again can a man be born again you
cannot enter Heaven unless you're born
again you have to be born again you have
those times where things are renewed so
man life is is a trip it's a it's a
beautiful experience if we let it be you
know you can go back and look at
yourself
years ago and how you interpreted things
and how you looked at life and viewed
others
viewed your parents viewed God viewed
the church or whatever and now maybe
through wisdom you're able to kind of
step back and that's what that's what
God does that's what psilocybin does
that's what Jesus does you're able to
kind of set back and just kind of revote
reevaluate things with almost like not
having a dog in the fight because we're
talking about like going through and
there is a loving blissful entity almost
that's guiding you through life or
through the psilocybin encounters or
whatever you feel like you're connected
with God or angels that are kind of
showing you giving you that that are
what is that a Timmy Timmy turn or
whatever the you know send a little
Timmy and Scrooge or whatever where the
spirits visited him and showed him like
what might have been or what could have
been or what you caused and therefore
you get to kind of make the changes
based off of the vision that you've seen
or the information that you received and
so you're able to kind of apply that to
your life and and make the best out of
it I encourage you to do that make the
best of every day so Dumbledore says I
have faint memories of being on a higher
plane here on earth and using living
things as sustenance like food for
spirits could have been just a dream man
when you when you achieve Tiny Tim Timmy
Turner he was wishing for a burner when
you achieve higher states of
consciousness man through meditation you
experience like information is slippery
information is slippery you can hold on
to stuff grab something you know it's
almost like if you're like you know
those things at the mall then leave
staff game shows like this where like
the wind's blowing well some of them
they would have money in there and the
wind's blowing money everywhere and
you're just trying to like whatever you
grab you get the key you're trying to
grab dollars $10 you hold it to your
chest you like put it in your pockets
you got to hold it and then it turned it
off and when it opens up everything that
you held on to you get to keep the
psychedelic realm works just like that
the dream state receiving visions in
your dreams not even on psychedelics I
mean that's the biggest you know blast
of DMT you're gonna get is in your dream
state you know when you go to sleep your
third eye your brain releases DMT that
blows you into the dream state to
receive visions and this is how God at
least if we believe the Bible this is
how God speaks to us in the we visions
of the night and you get to grab some of
it you can train yourself lucid dreaming
train yourself for how to grab the
division grab the principal grab that
face who is this I've seen that same
person in my dream let me go talk to him
just to introduce myself
I don't know if anything is gonna come
of it it's a synchronicity I played
those numbers try it see what happens
but just grab on cuz it's so slippery
and you get to come out so I got this
this this and this okay but even if you
get one thing per night per week per
month per year you're able to grab
something out of the dream state
that's something or someone is trying to
communicate with you God your angels
your higher self trying to communicate
with you I and I got it I'm gonna try it
hey try this okay don't do it okay have
those dreams where you were like
contemplating doing something stupid and
you had a nightmare up not doing that
yeah I got to feel the grief of what it
feels like if I do that that's a big
Jesus we can go on for hours we're right
at three hours now I can just keep going
those are scary because you feel you
have those dreams where like you feel
like you did something and you can't
turn back from whether you dying in your
dream or you're being chased by monsters
or I mean I would have nightmares of me
hurting someone killing somebody and
then I'm on a run from
law with my family I like we can't get
caught now you know I'm going to jail
forever you know and and I feel like
it's real you know and I'm like yeah and
I'm like panicking in my dream like I
can't let him get me like you know and
just running and running running you
feel you wake up like yeah that was a
dream I'm glad I'm glad that was a dream
so
but I got to see what it felt like that
even crosses into the psychic good
psychic psychedelic experiment
experience where what if you're not
really talking to elves
what if you're not meeting angels what
if it's your mind playing tricks on you
what if you created this realm in these
people in these little beings and
whoever you communicated the golden
teachers Trucy go what if you're just
speaking to your own conscious and you
already knew this stuff and you create
because I wanted it I wanted an
encounter what if I created the
encounter for myself and then when I
tapped in I just got what I was looking
for I mean what if what if this reality
is that we signed agreements to come
here okay I'm gonna do that I'm gonna do
this I'm gonna do that
and I'm gonna do it and I'm I know what
it's gonna help me in the end it's gonna
produce something beautiful in me all
the stuff that I'm going with going
through it's gonna produce something
beautiful and I'm ready to do it and you
you signed up to come to life and you
already know you've created it the
simulation theory is some would say we
just living out of program simulation
that you created you created it so the
entities the angels the elves the aliens
whoever they are you're communicating
with in these other realms what if
they're not real what if you created
them and they're speaking to you and
you're responding back to them like you
already know what they're gonna tell you
no I'm saying you had this conversation
but when you come back you catch your
breath the next day you really whether
they were real to work whether they
weren't you still respond like they were
and you live your life accordingly did
you just meet the the tree elves who
live in the trees in and hide under the
mushrooms did you meet them in that
dream realm and that in that psilocybin
encounter you don't know I don't think
any of us know it's slippery but you
live your life in such a way that you
did you just kind of end out on a softer
note with that
there was a couple interviews that we
did and I've talked about this with me
and my buddy drew guy were shout out to
Drew we would like you know how we would
like you know do voices and
impersonations and stuff and he
impersonates Lou Engel which is a
Christian minister who has a event that
he puts on called called the call where
they fill up stadiums to come together
for prayer and if they if they can get
enough people praying then they can
change begin to end abortion if they get
30,000 people praying for the same thing
at the same space and they do this every
year to make a lot of money
tickets are pretty expensive so anyway
drew is really good at impersonating Lou
Engel and the little guy was on my show
from from the Jesus camp documentary
about it two years ago now he when he
was a kid Lou Engel Lou Engel came to
their church and spoke and he inspired
this kid you know and he probably
listens to his sermons and watches his
videos and maybe went to the call you
know drew does a perfect Lou Engel
impression I got drew to call in and
we're gonna just joke with them I get
drew to call and say hey this is Louie
you know and uh but didn't tell him it's
a joke you know drew calls in talks to
the kid hey this is Lou Engel you gotta
call in on your life young man he said I
don't sound nothing like them but drew
does you can go back and watch the
footage the kids face lights up Lou Lou
oh man I can't believe you called Lou
your work your ministry has inspired me
Lou you changed my life you changed my
life Lou oh my god I can't believe
you're on the phone this is such a
blessing Lou bless you man thank you for
everything you've done and it kind of
like well oh we're too far in it like
we're too far into the gag like you
can't tell them it's hey bro it's not
Lou ingo this is my friend drew he oh
you made a fool of me whatever the case
is right so I think drew just went with
even though when doing these characters
we like to kind of go far left and then
bring it back home or whatever so he's
like hey hold on I mean I'm in the
McDonald's drive-through let me get her
number three ketchup yeah okay I'm back
and he's like just doing silly stuff and
the kids still like hook line and sinker
Lou English on the phone oh my god you
know and so after that that interview
after that phone call we never told him
that that wasn't Lou Engel is it mean
yeah it's kind of mean you know but he
lived his life moving forward like he
just spoke to one of his heroes like how
encouraging is that that you one of your
heroes it doesn't make it right I know I
know but he's living his life moving
forward like he really spoke to luego
who called and affirmed him you know you
just got to look at the good so for him
he's living his life like he did he
didn't talk to Lou Engel you might not
talk to those fairies you might not have
had that encounter with Jesus you might
not have had that encounter with the
angels or the fairies or the aliens you
don't know it seems real real enough to
stake my life upon it
I hope it's real anyway your response to
that is what matters how does that
change your life how do you apply the
principles that they told you doesn't
matter if they showed up or not you got
some wisdom that you wasn't privy to
before him but now you have it I'm gonna
read this last comment maybe respond and
then we'll call this show green and
white Jaime says the dream state is like
the fourth fifth and sixth dimension
also if we have a lot of bad dreams then
that is to be the case in our afterlife
for the individual you also said that uh
I hear that as spirit will not be able
to pass over if the person has
unfinished business or was murdered in
life so we'll be stuck here until that
they are ready to pass over
all you also said that the aim is to end
up being a positive mind in a positive
mind frame so we can have good dreams
and be positive so we are ready to pass
on that's my two cents for the convo now
Dumbledore and I'm gonna respond to this
because you keep asking me about mark
passio I know who Mark passio is weird
synchronicity I was thinking about
having him on as a guest and he added me
on Facebook like right when I was
thinking about having him on as a guest
sent him a message on Facebook didn't
respond I don't know much of his work I
know of him
I know who he is he's got a big name
he's been doing this for a long time
that's about as far as my extent I can't
you know I don't I don't know too much I
know who he is and I've seen a lot of
his work but I'd never watched a lot of
it so yeah the drink the dream states
are very interesting and I will you know
point you back to an interview we did
with a lady named Lanie dolphin I'm
gonna keep talking about this interview
she blew my mind it was a great
interview I loved every single moment of
it and I wanted to keep her on and maybe
have to get her on again but she she
works with a dream interpretation and
talking about how to interpret your
dreams and what they mean and why do you
keep having these reoccurring dreams and
these unresolved issues that you have in
your life for me it's one thing for us
to be tempted and tried into physical
reality right you're trying with
propositions from women from
propositions from drugs or bad business
deals or messing over on people or
whatever the case is and you can easily
you know fight that stuff and combat it
get it out my face
I don't want it get out of here but in
the dream state sometimes it's not as
easy to say no sometimes we just kind of
watch it happen we know we don't even
feel like we're a part of it but when
you're tempted and tried in the dream
state and you pass and you're you're
tested in that state that's that's the
that's where I want to be where I can
have a dream that I could say no and and
you know cuz you still feel like you did
it man I'm telling you in the dream
state like the my dreams are so real so
lucid like I feel the grief the agony
you know if there's a I have a bad dream
with a woman or something some woman
kisses me or something like that like I
feel bad like damn now I gotta tell my
wife and my marriage is over and you
feel the grief of what that would feel
like
and I I try to bring that out not I
bring it out in the fact that look don't
put yourself in a bad situation you
don't want it you don't want to see what
it feels like to be alone or to be
dishonest to your wife you know the
grief of that and what it brings and not
just that but all types of stuff you
know smoking cigarettes again your
addictions creeping back on you and it
makes you feel dirty and you wake up oh
man I'm glad I'm not gonna smoke crack
again I'm not gonna go back to opiate
addiction and not coming it's nice not
coming back to mountain in my life
smoking cigarettes no I was delivered of
that years ago I don't want it don't
come back I do not want it so it helps
you that's my two cents with that I
would say peace and Shalom thank you
guys for hanging out with me this has
been a three-hour podcast you guys like
those podcasts I do too because the
three our podcast means that I was
interested in it you know we had
something to talk about it was a common
interest other net we're gonna get a our
episode and you'll be done move on who's
next who's the next guest I didn't even
really know much about this guy going
into it but we definitely build and
built and I really enjoyed it so if you
want to support my work and help me
produce more podcast produce more music
produce more community more whatever
we're doing if you want to help out what
we're doing head on over to patreon comm
backslash true seeker at any level of
giving there you get access to so much
stuff 200 plus songs Thursday night
hangout school of the Mystics the
discord links are there in the chat a
bunch of awesome stuff you know you get
stuff before it's released to the
general public months before and I'm
also gonna be doing a Monday night
session I'm sorry Monday morning session
and I'm trying to find another night so
maybe I just said it may be that spirit
speaking we're gonna do Monday nights as
well I don't know but I'm gonna start
with Monday mornings to start our week
off you know in and I'm probably going
to introduce more I just got to get
something that I know that I'll be
consistent
with so we're looking at probably Monday
mornings and though that's probably
going to be something outside of patreon
but I may use patreon to kind of
facilitate it but I'm gonna do something
that's gonna be ten bucks a week if you
want to kind of learn one-on-one and in
that smaller group setting with us where
it's gonna be intentional whether we get
into holotropic breathing we get into
prophesying and learning how to do that
over our lives I want to start the week
off with that so honestly you know the
Thursday night school of the Mystics is
a really big group some people up in
passing some people are coming some
people are going and some people are
there for five minutes or whatever and
we need that though like we need the
group hang out like that so I'm gonna
keep that the way it is but these Monday
morning things are gonna be a little bit
more focused to where we can actually
get in and tap into the spirit together
with just a smaller group of people so
if that's something that you want to do
and you want to grow with a smaller
community and move forward working with
me as well that's going to be available
too so just send me an inbox just say
hey I want the info on that that's gonna
be like ten dollars a week just to kind
of you know help me pay for some things
on the backend and just kind of show
that you want to grow in that area as
well so with that I'm gonna say peace
and Shalom there's so much free stuff
over there patreon comback slash true
seeker I just put out two meditations
that are free to download I hope that
blesses you as well so I'm gonna say
peace and Shalom you guys will do it
again very soon
that does it for this episode folks to
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