DARE To Dream Like Jesus | Rebekah Simon-Peter
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Rmw6LMRgk
Transcript source: YouTube captions

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I mean host true seeker this is the
truth seeker podcast excited and
delighted to be with you guys again
today for this amazing episode man we'll
be talking about something really
beautiful something that is a now word
for for a lot of us who are leading
communities especially online right now
which is where I am out dreaming like
Jesus getting his vision for ourselves
and tap it into the spirit it's gonna be
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spirits and the sovereignty of God
forward by Jordan Maxwell check that out
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copy there as well so without further
ado we're gonna go ahead and jump into
two
dey's discussion my guest today is
Rebecca Simon Peter Rebecca welcome to
the true seeker podcast my friend how
are you thank you I'm doing awesome and
it's so great to be with the truth
another fellow truth seeker it's
terrific
well yeah we've had this podcast book
for a while and now we finally got a
chance to make it happen and I'm excited
to see what you bring to the table I got
your book dream like Jesus and I've been
able to go through it a little bit
haven't been able to finish it but I
like what I've read so far and there's
some things that you bring to the table
about some different problems that many
churches face and they fall into I'd
like to just kind of give it an overview
of complacency in many areas whether
it's the area of Prayer the area of just
being attentive to the needs of the
people being open and honest but you
address a lot of these things in the
book so if you just want to kind of give
an overview about who you are what you
bring to the table we'll start there
yeah great thanks a lot yeah you know
it's interesting because I wrote the
book of course before the carnivai hrus
and the world has changed since then
churches had a certain amount of inward
focus and survivalism and we got to just
kind of you know keep going and make
sure we're gonna be okay
and even though there is a care and
concern for people beyond the walls and
how to get beyond the walls well I I
like to think that the corner virus has
done for us what we could not do for
ourselves I mean right now people you
know people used to say hey we've never
done it that big way before we can't and
now people are saying whatever it takes
you know Pastor Dan to stay together
yeah we'll do zoom we'll do Skype we'll
do Drive in communion we'll do all that
sort of stuff and so one thing I should
tell your listeners is that I work
especially with church leaders and
having been a pastor myself for many
years
God shifted my call to being a really
moving from discipleship to Apostleship
helping people move from being near
followers of Jesus to being active
co-creators of miracle
with Jesus and so a lot of the work that
I do is I train church leaders and coach
and mentor is help them expand their own
sense of agency and have that ripple
down into the churches so that churches
are expanding their own sense of agency
because you know over and over Jesus
said hey look whatever you want you know
come together in prayer you'll have it
and and of course you know whatever
you've done into me you've done into the
least of these so there's this sense of
complacency it's a good word Derek
there's this been a sense of complacency
about hey we can't really do that much
and we can't really you know impact our
communities that much and when you look
in the scriptures man that is just not
the case the people that Jesus called
they were doing this stuff Jesus did
they were multiplying loaves and fishes
they were making miracles they were out
there doing all of that and so my call
has been to remind the Church of who
Jesus is what we're called to you what
we're capable of and how you actually
get there that's awesome we were talking
about four we went live you know using
zoom and how like everybody's trying to
get on zoom now it's it's how it's how
we're doing life but we've kind of been
ahead of the curve like you said you've
been on it for a couple years now I've
been on it for a couple years using it
but now everybody's trying to trying to
flock to it and figure it out and say
hey here we are we could teach you how
to use it we've been using it for a long
time and in fact in the groups that I
lead I have a program called creating a
culture of renewal that's being used in
quite a few locations around the country
we've seen that our pastors that are in
our groups because we do a lot with zoom
they've been so well able to pivot and
do online worship online communion
online giving because they were ahead of
the curve and so there is something
about staying tuned into the spirit
because you will get prompted you will
know what the next step is you know and
zoom right God whispered zooming your
ear to my ear - yeah I've been I've been
using again for years and create a you
know an online community we literally in
our in our tribe we have people all over
the world who can
with the power the internet and zoom and
those kind of things and so I want to
know to just like how does your book and
some of these principles translate over
to an online community because churches
are going there now so let me do the
same principles apply I kind of feel
like they do I do - yeah so the model
that I introduced in the book dream
light cheese is deepen your faith and
bring the impossible to life is the Dare
model D a are a dream dream the big
dream aligned people to the dream
realize the dream bring it to life and
then watch the dream expand so it
doesn't say a darn thing about a
building you don't have to have a
building for this and I think that's
what churches are seeing right now is oh
my gosh maybe we don't actually need a
building so when you're dreaming the
dream let me start with that so what is
the dream I talk about dreaming like
Jesus and I think Jesus's dream is found
so beautifully in the Lord's Prayer thy
kingdom come Thy will be done on earth
as it is in heaven
and the way I envision that Derek is
that all the goodness all the love all
the light all the justice all the equity
forgiveness love humor everything you
think of is like I deal with God that
that that that somehow we would be
expressions of that beauty that
wholeness that those high values that
high vibration we would be vehicles of
that so that we're literally living the
kingdom it's not so much that it's a
place or it's more a state of mind it's
a consciousness and out of that
consciousness then we take new kinds of
actions so what I've seen the pastor's
that I mentor and coach and train what
they've done is way beyond what they
thought they could do before moving from
that little inward focus to what does
the community need and what I'm writing
about here is how does the church be the
agent of the vision and the community or
the Kingdom the Beloved Community is the
recipient of the vision so a lot of
times and you know the kind of churches
that I've pastored in and worked in and
worked with in that sense is
well we have a church improvement in
plant life we're gonna be a better
church we're going to get more people
here and we're gonna have better Sunday
school or gonna paint the bathrooms
we're gonna get a better preacher and
I'm not saying those are bad things to
do it's just that's not really why Jesus
lived and died and rose again he you
know and my understanding it was for the
fullness of our being and our potential
to come to life and to tap into that
abundant life so churches have more
power more agency more ability than they
thought they had and I'm out to remind
churches about that I'm not to remind
pastors that Jesus didn't call disciples
he called apostles their first step in
their spiritual journey was to be a
disciple to absorb to learn you know and
then but it was all for the purpose of
being sent forth being sent out and he
called apostles so what does it look
like to be you know in that apostolic
mode and to be sent and understand
yourself but that's just part of what it
is to follow Jesus is you're gonna be
sent mm-hmm that's it and you think
that's where everybody or just special
people do nope no no no no and you know
why cuz we're all special and we all
have this capacity within us it takes a
certain shift in consciousness and
mindset in fact I'm doing a whole series
right now called the 40 days of
Apostleship my my fame Derek is that if
you're gonna do the kinds of things
Jesus did and he said greater things
than this you're gonna do okay he didn't
just say just oh just you and just you
it was a sort of a general you in order
to do the kinds of things that Jesus
said we would do you actually have to
not only believe in Jesus but expand
your face so you're believing like Jesus
not just having faith in Christ but
having the faith of Christ now that's
that's just a slightly different word
but it's the world it's just such a
shift and now you think about things
yeah and so no what did Jesus believe
well he believed he was one with God he
believed his prayers had power he
believed he had superpowers
leaved in his potential he believed in
possibility those are the things that
we're called to believe I believe as
well so that's what I'm teaching people
is how to believe like Jesus so that you
can actually be in that miracle making
mindset like you was yeah for me just
the complexity of that lately has kind
of been a little bit of a dichotomy
because it's like like we know we teach
you know what Jesus did for us you know
the propitiation for our sins and he
became sin to win us in a lot of people
stop there you know it is like we just
preached what what he did but then
there's a there's people in the
spiritual community which I'm involved
with they they don't really teach that
aspect they teach do what he did
let's love people let's change the world
and and you got to do both you know I
don't think you can have one without the
other
what's the third there's the third so
there's okay what he did and then do
what he did and then there's believe
like he believed to have the
consciousness that he had to expand our
inner being so it's not just a physical
expression but there's an inner an inner
consciousness there's an inner kingdom
consciousness that allows us to
literally do the kinds of things he did
not just feed the hungry and that's
excellent but I'm talking about how do
you multiply loaves and fishes you know
how do you how do you be the kind of
being that Jesus was that radiates love
radiates healing radiates you gotta have
all three yeah that's the thing people
there's and it's it's been hard for me
to to really articulate it because this
is because it just they seem so distant
cuz we the church is really just kind of
stuck on come to the cross come to the
cross and okay that's it let's say okay
what do you do after you die at the
cross and you're crucified with Christ
I'm like his story becomes your story
you have to take up your cross daily and
follow him you have to go out and do the
greater works and stuff and so again you
have a lot of people who stop there in
the church and then those may be outside
the church they a lot of them are doing
the other side
better like they're like being Jesus to
the world and loving people
unconditionally and like doing all of
these things and they're doing it better
but they have no like view of
reconciliation and Christ's atonement
and things like that so there's this
weird dichotomy that would we have to
bridge there and at least what I found
in my community there's just one or the
other and I'm trying to like wait
together you know yeah that's great
and then you know in your right
sometimes people stop at the cross and
they stop at Good Friday and it's like
Sunday's coming come on people
restaurants are power the end of the
story it's not the crucifixion is the
resurrection it's really the
resurrection that keeps me coming back
and I know how to you know I didn't know
how to wind up dead what I don't know
how to do and what I mean Jesus to teach
me how to do is rise again you know and
that's what we need
how do you rise again and then how do
you have the mindset where you actually
realize I'm gonna rise from this I'm
staying on the cross I'm gonna rise here
and I like to use the acronyms around
fear do you know these fear false
evidence appearing real yeah yeah yeah
see or the other F word everything in
run or forgetting everything's alright
and facing everything and rising so the
end of the whole fear story isn't death
it's not crucifixion its resurrection
that's what the world's waiting to see
from folks like us resurrection
resurrection power that's it how's
erection power yeah I guess that's what
makes Jesus a little bit different too
right because he he not only was died
but he he rose again you know he
developed a death you know yeah and over
and you see it in the Gospels that he's
walking on water he's calming the wind
and waves he's multiplying loaves and
fishes he's rising from the dead every
circumstance that we think is like oh
okay let's say I can't get me out of
this circumstance yeah every
circumstance Jesus shows oh no here's
how you rise above
this doesn't need to stop you and so
that's really what my message is about
the stuff that we think is is our stops
walls or they're actually doors you can
walk through them
yeah they don't need to stop you yeah
there's something there about about you
know going to where the fear is or going
to where the trauma is going to where
the hurt is and finding healing because
we find out that that's what Jesus is
like it's not and here's the thing too
especially with everything going on
right now the Crone and all that kind of
stuff there's a lot of people mocking
the church there's a lot of people
mocking God oh let's see you pray
yourself out of this one people are
rebuking the coronavirus and nothing's
happening and like okay where's your God
now so there's I think we have to
understand this like it's not that we're
not gonna go through the storms it's the
fact that when we go through them we're
gonna have a peace that surpasses all
understanding so it's not that we're
exempt from turmoil Alex were exempt
from trials and testing or having to
deal with fears that we have a piece and
and our hope is eternal our hope isn't
you know for today our hope is found in
Christ and so there's this thing that
with fear and so I've been I've been
really really big on that there's just
so many conspiracy theories and people
who you would have never thought I got
pastors emailing me conspiracy theories
and what are you thinking I'm like you
know what I think we need to quit
listening to the outside voices and Kien
in on the voice of the Holy Spirit and
see what he's saying forget what Trump
saying forget what who all of these
websites are saying let's see what the
Holy Spirit is saying so again dealing
with that fear head-on and and not
entertaining it something when our mind
likes to entertain the possibilities of
what if what if and if we find all these
fears coming in and again like you said
I go back to the first one you mentioned
false evidence appearing real the things
that don't exist but if you you give
them life when you think about them when
you entertain them and you've got you
mess up anxiety will set in fear will
set in your health will start to mess up
because you've been entertaining these
scenarios that are not a threat at all
but but it's real to you in your
realm and your universe in your world it
is an imminent plant and it's gonna
happen but it is not on you on the
forecast two things that's going on and
that brings to mind one other fear
acronym which is future events already
ruined you know when we entertained fear
for the whole future shot there's
nothing right future events already
ruined it's over and then we give up and
die you know not the good kind of death
you know of that brings resurrection we
just give up we just get resigned I
don't think that's Jesus's message for
us at all I'm with you let's get back to
the subject at hand with the book
because it's a really good book and and
there were some things that that you you
have here there's eight symptoms and now
I want to address some of these symptoms
that that you saw but I don't want to
get I'm gonna go a little bit before
that like how did you see them like
where were you spiritually like was it
something that God ministered to you
were you able just to see like this
repetition going on in a lot of churches
and you and you're like hey we got to
address some of these things it's like
an elephant in the room that we're not
talking about what like like how did you
see these things operating in the church
world a little bit of backstory on me
I'm born and raised Jewish Reform
Judaism loved it and had Jewish mom
Catholic dad and then I actually had a
god experience that brought me all the
way to Orthodox Judaism and so I was in
the Orthodox Jewish community and you
know deeply loving a lot of it when I
had a Jesus experience which knocked my
socks off Derek I wasn't expecting it I
wasn't looking for it he came to me very
Jewish looking which is the only way it
would have got my attention
full curly dark beard you know wavy
thick dark hair olive skin kind of a bit
short and just the war and uh and the
warmest smile just the warmest you know
crinkles around the eyes like just love
radiating love to me and saying to me
hey I understand you I you and I accept
you
and I wasn't expecting this I wasn't
looking for Jesus I wasn't any of this
and I was brand new in my recovery from
addiction some recovering addict
alcoholic sugar Binger you name it I've
used everything and and through that
process of Jesus coming to me when I
wasn't expecting it there was just so
much love that came from him and he
didn't ask anything of me there were no
strings attached to this love and
acceptance but it got me curious
like I always thought like he and I were
enemies or I don't want anything to do
with him he doesn't want anything to do
with me he's not on my radar screen and
then all of a sudden there is
he's interjected himself in my life so
went home called up I was at a I was at
a kind of a meditative place and I
called a friend of mine who was in
seminary she had one Jewish parent one
Christian parent and I told her about
what happened and she said with you know
Jesus was it true as like yeah everybody
knows that she said did you know the
disciples were Jewish I was like hmm
what's a disciple she said you've never
read the New Testament I said nope it's
not my book doesn't want my get you copy
and I thought well I'm not reading it
and she did and I didn't but there was
something about hanging out with her
because she was in seminary okay she was
studying in the you know for the
ministry just a PhD actually and I
thought well she's there I'm gonna go
you know so I got you know Hebrew Greek
and I already studied Hebrew for years
loved it growing up Jewish had my Bat
Mitzvah the whole deal
I started wound up in seminary I didn't
think I was ever gonna become a
Christian you know let alone a minister
that was that's not on my radar screen
and just sitting in seminary it happened
step by step by step and one day invited
Jesus into my heart and was like was
over it was over it's like okay I knew
God was calling me to be with God's
people and you can interpret that all
kinds of ways there's God's Jewish
people God's Christian people I knew
this was a call to the Christian people
so I wound up in the local church now
the first church I wound up in fabulous
african-american church Scot United
Methodist Church in Denver Colorado and
the spirit was alive I just went there
to worship
I just went to worship yeah oh my god I
loved it and I ended up joining that
church that was the first church I ever
joined and then because I was in
seminary they extended me the
opportunity to be the associate pastor
well a lot a lot of steps in there but I
became the associate pastor absolutely
loved these folks and the experience
that I had there and then I went from
there to the next Church Denver because
suburban church and then I went to
church in Wyoming which is where I am
now
and although I'm not pastoring anymore
so what I noticed and all these
different churches was awesome people
fabulous people well-intentioned people
loving people and all these eight
symptoms not equally in every single
Church but the symptoms included
shrinking numbers shrinking numbers in
worship Bible study Sunday school even
shrinking numbers in you know people who
are expressing their desire to be part
of the faith that was symptom number one
symptom number two problem people Mike
there were just relationships that
weren't working and when a church is in
decline and these are the symptoms of a
church and decline by the way so when
the church is in decline when it's kind
of late go over the hill and it doesn't
have a vision anymore then fights break
out you know and in my world it was a
lot like kitchen fights you know Mike
who's in charge of the kitchen and
should we let kids into the sanctuary
and there's a lot of conflict yeah and
the third symptom is stagnant giving and
that's where just giving goes down
because you're asking people to give to
the budget instead of given to the
vision or giving to the mission or give
to the community yeah just they're just
not as interested in giving to the
budget especially younger people I'm
gonna change the world show me how to
change the world I'm happy to give what
I've got I'm happy to support you guys
but if this is just about keeping the
building going I'm not that interested
right that's that's the message and then
the fourth symptom is a listless worship
and by listless I mean like there's no
energy
there's no focus there it we're not
going anyplace we're just sort of
gathering together three hymns you know
a sermon you know greet your neighbor
that sort of thing is inspiring and
again this is why there's a church
that's in decline a church without a
vision the fifth symptom gutless prayer
can I just say that gutless prayer
there's no guts there's no glory there's
no asking the big things and a lot of
churches are saying gosh we wish we had
more kids but you don't hear those folks
praying for the kinds of things that
kids are concerned about and that young
people are concerned about and and I
hear in a lot of the churches that I
have visited the pastor's that I've
mentored cetera there are three prayer
concerns that are on auto repeat because
they're kind of safe so we're praying
for the military we're praying for
health and we're praying for traveling
mercies you know and then honestly
there's nothing wrong with praying with
any of absolutely the kingdom hello is
bigger than that you know and those
prayer concerns and we're called upon to
pray with boldness free with God's
previs foot spa like Jesus did you know
he prayed before he called Lazarus forth
from the tomb
there's something about prayer but when
you know when we're practicing gutless
prayer you know you put it forth you get
it back God's happy to answer those
prayers but they're bigger prayers yeah
I believe that God would like to answer
yeah I've been studying prayer a lot
lately too and there's it's kind of a
lost art for a lot of people because
it's so just because it's so you know it
almost seems elementary you know like
we've kind of graduated but like going
back to the simplicity of prayer the
simplicity of prayer in and of itself is
very very there's different types of
prayers there's different I'll talk
about there's there's hindered prayer
there's unhindered prayer and there's
things that like you know there's paths
that your prayers travel when you you
notice things they block them and so it
gets really really deep and so we think
it is something I'm just God knows my
heart anyway so I don't need to vocalize
it like no you need to speak it out you
need to to birth it so yeah the gutless
prayer is a big one yeah I remember the
time speaking of that
it's really depressed I was in
seminaries going through some stuff I
had some trials and I was just depressed
and God was like pray pray and I'm lying
there thinking why should I pray pray
cuz you already know what I need me get
nothing so start to pray and lo hold of
my black cloud didn't just remember and
there was a part of me it was kind of
paste you know it's like that shouldn't
work that way like I wanted to pull it
back and and you know that's not gutless
prayer and that's just clueless prayer
what I was doing and sometimes their
prayers aren't clueless because we don't
actually we pray and then we don't allow
the prayer to be answered and that may
be what you mean by hindered prayer we
don't allow the prayer to be answered
and that's a big part and that's kind of
another topic but I like to teach people
not only how to pray but how to allow
the prayer to be answered because
sometimes we put up our own barriers
like well I don't really deserve that or
I'm not good enough for that or I
couldn't handle that if it came to me
and then we just block it so anyway
gutless prayer I think is one of the
real symptoms won't talk about
congregations that worship together
whether it's online or face-to-face it's
house church small group you know big
group doesn't matter we really gotta get
gets here around prayer and the only way
really to do that is to have this big
vision and that's that's the argument
I'm making is we see all these symptoms
because the churches don't have a vision
but bait-and-switch evangelism is one of
the symptoms too and that's where
churches that are in decline and they're
worried about surviving they'll just say
hey we got to get young people here and
so they try to get young people in and
what they're really trying to do is not
share a message of hope
not exactly got a message of hope and
power and Jesus and all of that but they
want somebody to make sure that run the
committees and take over the bills you
know I think that's dishonest I do I do
I think if you want people to come in
and run the committees and pay the bills
you should say that if you're inviting
people in to have a message of hope you
should give that now if you actually
give a message out
you may actually have people wants to
come out and run the committees and pay
the bills but it's not because they care
they love the building it's because
they've fallen in love with Jesus and
who they get to be in Jesus skirt it's
about being honest so you know like I
said I mean even with some of the giving
and things you mentioned like you know
it's just you don't have to lie to them
have to trick them just be open and
honest like if it is to to keep the
building going like there's a lot of
small churches like that's the emphasis
look if you guys like the like the
building you like the lights you like
the AC we need to help pay the bills
there's that and then we have these
other funds the outreach yourselves the
big name we've been addressing with the
giving thing is like with the whole that
that weird tithing worse like tithe if
you don't give it to us then God's gonna
take it from you so there's this weird
given with compulsion or scaring you
into giving which is something that's
like turning a lot of people off as well
because they're finding out that that's
not God's heart you know with that with
that type of giving give with the
cheerful hearts give abundantly yeah
yeah so the what I've discovered around
these eight symptoms is that there it's
pretty much across the board when a
church doesn't have the vision you're
gonna see one or more and there's a
couple of more symptoms insulated focus
it's just about us and then the eight
symptoms is dead end decision-making
like nothing ever really gets decided
because if it's too risky we're gonna
put it on hold we're only gonna do this
secure stuff so what I've seen over and
over is that this is what happens when
that church doesn't have a vision when
they're not dreaming like Jesus when
they're not daring when they don't have
their focus on the community but they've
just got the focus on survival of the
individuals or the building or the
institution that's what you're gonna see
those symptoms and a lot of times Derek
you probably find this in your world
we'll bring in the experts hey let's get
somebody to help us you know deal with
conflict but let's get somebody help us
do what's worship and there's good
people out there let's have a
stewardship campaign that's all good
stuff but none of that is going to
create a sustainable shift in culture
and what this book is about and what my
work is about is how do you shift the
whole culture of the church from
that n-word sort of gutless you know to
outward and bold and dreaming like Jesus
and my program creating a culture of
renewal which is a three-year in-depth
process for church leaders teaches
emotional intelligence teaches
leadership smarts teaches culture
shifting when we teach Apostleship
that's the process of dreaming like
Jesus and bringing that vision to life
in your congregation and in your
community it's awesome now how do people
make that their own and how to like how
do they embody it what is there is a
certain prayer is it just reading the
book like how do they like once they
have all the tools and things like that
how do they incorporate it yeah well
first off it's important to do this with
some other people because to keep the
dream alive it can't just be here you
actually have to speak it out loud share
with other people and share the dream
that's the D then the alignment part is
other people hear your dream and they
think that's cool I'd like to be a part
of that yeah we should do that and so
you keep dreaming it keeps sharing the
dream just like Jesus did he went a lot
of different places to preach the
kingdom and he got alignment in a lot of
different places you know he had the
twelve we had the 72 we had all kinds of
people we don't even know about and then
together you you realize the dream you
bring it to life but you got to have
other people because my big thing Derek
is that Jesus was his ministry was
apostolic he invited other people those
twelve those 72 there are the ones that
carried out his vision you think about
it yeah it wasn't him he sent him on hey
you guys go do it they went and did it
they went and did it so to be to be
Jesus like it isn't just what he did for
us or what we're gonna do it's how we do
it you get other people on board you
create a movement and then out of that
that's where the ripple effects come
that's where that expansion happens in
people's faith grow because they realize
oh my gosh we just did something we
don't even know we didn't even know we
could do you know we we didn't think we
could do this but we did it how do we do
it we did it together we did it with a
Jesus light dream
took our focus off ourselves and we put
it out on God's people we put it out in
the world we put it out on the community
and so and I've got worksheets in the
workbook and you can go to my website
Rebecca Simon Peter calm and Rebecca
spelled biblically are EBE aah Simon
Peter si mo n PE ter calm you'll see the
worksheets there for the book and and
then finally and a lot of people say hey
I want to get involved in your your big
3-year program because I need more than
a book I need I need a community of
people that I where I'm learning this
with and I need to really get my church
on board with it so that's through the
various options for people I gotta ask
you about his name cuz there's a lot of
people like even when I booked it I told
sue B yeah here's some of the upcoming
guests and uh they're like that has to
be a name that she took on what's up
with the Simon Peter it has to be
something you know what's so what's the
deal with the name Rebecca so it's not
the name I was born with and when I had
this Jesus experience I wasn't the same
human being anymore and you know
biblically there's all kinds of examples
about how when there's this massive
spiritual shift the name gets changed
Jacob wrestles with the angel at the
river Javik and becomes Israel right he
wrestles with the divine and it's
interesting because my Hebrew name is
Yaakov ax which is basically the
feminine form of Jacob which she who
wrestles with the divine that's so me
but anyway I told you about this friend
that I called up and she's like oh yeah
read the New Testament so she was in
seminary I went to seminary because I
thought she's there I'm gonna go find
out what this is all about and while I
was there I got the call I got the call
to ministry ordained ministry but also I
started to have this like whispering in
my ear I didn't even know I mean I knew
who Rebecca was because she's Hebrew
Bible Old Testament Simon Peter I didn't
know who it was so I asked my friend hey
um Sarah
I have a lame Simon Peter she said yeah
yeah I said is he a good guy or isn't a
bad guy he's a pretty good guy so I
began to hurry it up because this was
the name getting whispered to me so I
began to read up on Simon who became
called Peter and Simon was a Jew who
followed Jesus and in the process Jesus
changed his name to Peter and I thought
well that's why God must be whispering
this name in my ear because I'm a Jew
following Jesus and in the process I'm a
changed human being and so the name so
Rebecca was somebody who didn't go along
with the way things were right the
elders should receive everything but she
had this you know business and her womb
with the two kids and you know she
didn't she didn't just go along to get
along she followed the promptings of God
and so that's Rebecca and then Simon
Peter got whispered to me and when it
was time for me I was at the I was at
the place where you go officially change
your name and there I was on the forum
it asked for middle name and I was like
oh what do I do here and so I was
long before you know Google and all that
I can't remember exactly how I came to
it but the name Ellen came to me and I
don't even recall what language that
name comes from but it has to do with
light so I thought I want a name that
has to do with light so Rebecca Ellen
Simon Peter and that's been my name for
thirty years now so it's my official
name was a little odd you know going
through a name change because people
still calling you the old name sometimes
my parents don't call me the old name
that's okay
I answered all of it and when I married
my husband Jerry Gonzalez he's like
we're gonna change your names like honey
I had changed my name so many times I
would love it if you call it if you call
me mrs. Gonzalez but this is the name
it's in the books
Rebecca Simon Peter yeah I heard that
I'm the same way like I go by true
seeker that's what I that's my branded
name it's Who I am
I grew into it I had to call it myself
that it resonated with me and I do
interviews and stuff as well and people
try to
book me as my regular name I'm like no I
didn't I do that on it's like on a
friend level but as far as like you know
ministry and podcasts and music and all
that kind of stuff it's it's just don't
put it out that don't do a video and put
it out there you can call me that all
you want but it's a you know some people
have a hard time you know saying truth
seeker or truce or whatever they're like
what do I call you it's like hey you can
call me Derek but as far as like
branding something or like introduce my
work as right this is this is what it is
it's not branded under my regular name
so it's interesting and you know going
back to - what you're saying about you
know sharing that vision with other
people you know the Bible talks about
like get the vision write it down make
it plain so that those who hear it the
others right find the others the others
can't who hear it can run with it and
they can run with you and and being open
and honest about it and you know
teamwork makes the dream work and that's
the biggest biggest thing of like trying
to you know we tend to at least I found
that we draw a lot of people who are
like us you know for me it's like I got
a whole bunch of podcasters I got a
whole bunch of Ministers we're all like
we do the same thing and and I like to
kind of send them out right to kind of
do their thing but when you're building
a team a movement like you say you need
to kind of find those people who are
good at what you you suck at like like
Jesus had a treasurer Jesus had like
other people keeping up with other stuff
you know so he didn't have to deal with
it so when you're like moving with the
vision you're gonna attract literally
other people who are like you but it's
like I need to find the people who can
who I can delegate work to then Jesus
would even when he would send people
like they would go to other other
countries and nations and things like
that that he wasn't able to do he wasn't
able to go to because he was at in one
place at one time but through the Holy
Spirit
you know he's able to impact the whole
world
I being able to send everyone out into
the world so understanding that it's
like this this teamwork and looking like
almost like a business even like we need
to function as a unit together versus
you know a bunch of heads or a bunch of
you know hands in the body you know
you're only doing this one thing and
you're only good at this one thing the
other stuff you're not skilled at but I
think forming as a body of people who
are growing together in community and
unity and being sent you kind of need a
little bit of everything that's so true
in fact I've built a beautiful team of
people that deliver the program creating
a culture of renewal with me that teach
workshops they're people that have been
through my three-year process that
didn't want to leave and they wanted to
be part of that community of people that
that uplift pastors and that train and
that helped create you know space for
God's biggest moments to happen in
people's lives they wanted to they
wanted to be trainers with me so I've
got a beautiful team of people and some
of them do the same kind of stuff I do
other people do stuff I just know good
acting you know yet I've got
administration I've got people that
support the work because you Jesus had a
whole network yeah whole network of
people it wasn't just him in the 12 he
had a whole other network of people
supporting him and and doing the deal
you know putting the prayer list
together and whatnot people that could
stay with when they traveled hey we got
people out in this city we're gonna stay
with them the next city we're gonna stay
with them yeah yes that's that's the
whole thing about being like Jesus it's
not just what Jesus did and it's not
just what you do and it's not even just
the consciousness of believing like
Jesus it's looking at how he structured
things and structuring and deciding okay
I'm gonna be apostolic in the way I do
things that's not all on me that's one
of the things pastors fall into the trap
of yeah I'm the pastor I got to do it
all Jesus didn't do it all you're gonna
kill yourself doing it all mm-hmm
he didn't do it all he had people you
know so being at the Stalag means you're
empowering the people around you and
together as a team your care
this out so when you asked okay you got
the book now what you got the dream now
what you got to get other people on
board
yeah because otherwise you know the
dream will bury you though yeah let me
ask you out this because you you've
you've been a pastor you've overseen
several churches what about here's the
big one when money money comes in thank
you can't pay everybody you got the
pastors like the only one who can get
paid right now I can't pay you I need
you to do it for free I need you to do
it for out of devotion and adoration God
will reward you you just you know what
I'm saying so I think you know the whole
thing of the pastor being the one man
that controls it all a lot of times it
comes down to a paycheck I can't I can't
pay a prophet to be on staff I can't pay
an apostle I can't pay the Deacons or
whatever the case says when money comes
into play it becomes a problem that's
why it's us for and no more kind of
thing for a lot of people what does the
work around with that alright I'm going
to tell you when there's a lack of money
there's a lack of vision I'm just gonna
say that when there's a lack of money
there's a lack of vision and there's
also a lack of ability to invite people
to give and what you're asking people to
give to and it's too it's too
centralized this is what I see now I
work primarily with United Methodists
and so we've got a whole system and a
whole structure and you know there are
there pay scales and all of that but I'm
telling you in these churches which are
highly structured and should be very
very functional effective when the money
dries up it's because the vision has
dried up or because one person is trying
to dominate other people so if it's just
foreign no more that's a problem Jesus
didn't do for no more so it's it's we
look at money as the problem but I want
to say that money is a symptom of the
problem just okay
it's the symptom and that's what I write
about in the book with that stagnant
giving if you've got stagnant giving it
means you're not putting a vision forth
or you're not empowering people around
you it's just got to be all it's all
about me or in some cases it's all about
the building or it's all about survival
that's not Jesus's vision not and it
wasn't even all about him for
surviving it's about so lack of vision
is a symptom lack of giving lack of
money is a symptom of lack of vision
your lack of delegation yeah again going
back to the scripture I think it ties in
to the other one about having a vision
or writing it down but the scripture
says where there is no vision that's
right and when there's no alignment to
the vision the visionary perishes
because all the works on their shoulders
and there's nobody around to help you
with it you know and without without
realizing the vision hope perishes
because that's that's when people say
well we already tried that that doesn't
work around here yeah yeah that's how I
see that is the lack of money isn't it's
not the problem it's a symptom of the
problem
lack of leadership like a vision now
I've been able to so with the online
community I think I have I have two
different like demographics even with my
community it's whether it's a Christian
community of people who are there
already Christians they're already
believers and they have faith in Christ
but they're asking the bigger questions
but they're told not to talk about it at
church we don't discuss that we don't
believe that keep that to yourself
those kind of things and so now they've
kind of found this platform or creative
expression for them to ask the bigger
questions that they I think they have
those questions for a reason right these
desires they're looking into things that
they're told to stay away from so there
I have a big portion of that people are
already Christians and but they don't
they don't feel like they fit into the
regular church anymore so they're
looking and so they find an online
community like this and so there's that
aspect of people there's the other side
of people who are into more that the
spiritual understandings and stuff like
that and they're new to anything
Christian Christian they don't have a
relationship with Christ they've never
made that decision to follow Jesus and
so I bid them to come in taste and see
that the Lord is good and so we have
these two sides coming in well with that
being said going back to the first one
there's just all of these people going
you know going back to the first one
that you even mentioned here which is
shrinking numbers these people who are
leaving the church and like record
numbers we got to do something something
needs to change like if we don't answer
their questions if we don't fulfill the
needs of the people then they're gonna
go somewhere else where someone is and a
lot of times it's it's in the world so
again let's I want to touch on that one
again the first warning of a sign of a
church in decline what are some of the
things that that we can do to address
that is it kind of starting there and
then just working through the other
seven symptoms well again I don't think
it's about working through the symptoms
I think the symptoms are this sign that
the church isn't dreaming like Jesus so
that's what I see is that churches have
shrunk their vision and if it's just
about the building if it's just about
the institution if it's just about
surviving
nobody is all that interested in that
that that doesn't quench the heart of
the seeker and you're you know you're a
truth seeker and you've got people
around you that want to know about truth
and there's all kinds of truth out there
yeah there's all kinds of questions like
you say that people have and I think one
of the things you're doing beautifully
and that cheech churches need to do is
engage in dialogue let's talk okay and
and I think that the kind of answers
that we can have their biblical answers
there are also answers that come from
the Holy Spirit that come from staying
open being spiritually grounded not your
head but in your heart you know like
what's going on in the world right now
with this coronavirus many people I know
when they tune in to their hearts the
answer that they get is the earth needs
to rebalance itself the earth me rest
this isn't a plague from God this isn't
you know sin because of the gay people
or women you know there's like those
kinds of common theory you could think
of this out there I don't believe that
for a second no the earth you know my
heart says the earth needs a rest and
there are there are all kinds of ripple
effects because we've overdone it
people we have overdone it in many ways
on the planet so but just you know
engage in conversation and not having to
be right can I just say that not having
to be right like maybe the answer is I
don't know or I see it this way I hear
that you see it that way could we stay
together in relationship my denomination
right now the United Methodist Church is
having a big hoo-ha over how how we get
honor people or do we honor people that
are gay transgender
what's our stance on human sexuality
yeah and we got this side we got that
side we've been fighting over 50 years
and it's so interesting because there
was going to be a big big
decision-making body that met in a
couple of months well coronavirus not
meeting and the church is ready to split
so I just think it's so interesting
because it may also be God's Way of
saying cool your jets hear from that
don't be in such a rush to part ways or
I don't know I don't know what the
spirits saying but this whole idea of
being in conversation being a dialog
versus I'm right you're wrong oh yeah
I've been there in the podcast has
helped me to to listen to other people
and not have to win the conversation or
correct them when they say something
that challenges my theology or what I
believe or even if I believe it's
heretical we'll just have a dialogue
let's just talk about it man you know
and I believe that he who started the
good work in us is faithful and just to
complete it and see it through so
nothing is like off the tables of just a
conversation and that's the one thing
that I found in in a lot of churches is
like we can't talk about that stuff if
you do we find out you are then you know
we we got to we got to put a stop to it
and so and that's really all I'm doing
is having conversations where people
just listening doesn't mean that I agree
or believe with them and that's one
thing we've been told in churches was
like they long if you have a person on
your platform or you talk to them it
means you believe everything that they
believe if you quote a philosopher it
means you believe everything that
philosopher ever did and stands for us
like no I agree with that quote I agree
with what he's doing in this area
and so just being open and we we have to
be more inclusive and I think I think
the church is moving closer to that
because those who aren't those who
aren't are suffering from these symptoms
and they're gonna get left behind well
yeah it will take care of itself
those it'll take care it's growing pains
though I mean it's kind of you know it
happens you know yeah so again so here
at the end of the interview who is the
book for is it just for church leaders
or is it for those who want to dream
yeah
such a great question it is for people
want to dream especially people who see
themselves as leaders or want to step
into that role of leader doesn't mean
like official you know like you're the
one yeah but you have that spirit of
wanting to make something happen you
have that spirit of guts
place the dream in your heart you want
to you want to dream bigger than you've
ever dreamed before and you you want to
know that it's possible it's doable you
want to make an impact on your community
you want to get some people together you
see a problem you want to solve it you
know you know from the Scriptures or the
spirit within you there's more to faith
than what you've been living you know
that God's calling you to something
bigger this book is your permission this
book says go for it dream like Jesus
deepen your faith bring the impossible
to life God's with you the Scriptures
are behind you you got this that's a
book is for that's awesome I think I
think you've addressed the elephant in
the room I think that you've talked
about a lot of things that a lot of
people see but they're just scared to
address and that's when you know that
you know it's a need for it because once
you start speaking about it people's
eyes start to light up because they
everyone's been feeling the same way but
nobody's articulated nobody's addressed
it so kudos to you for bringing us to
the table and helping us get to the next
level as believers to live like Jesus to
believe like Jesus to Walt like Jesus
and to you know to believe in what he
did for us as well so thanks so much
where's the best place for people to go
to get a copy of the book amazon.com
it's probably your best place or if you
like to support your independent
booksellers
you know you can order it online that's
what I would recommend and thank you
thank you so much it's so great to be
with you today oh I enjoyed it so much
thanks for hanging out with me I
appreciate it we have to do it again
yeah be great thank you I'm a friend
many blessings okay thank you so much it
was really terrific to be with you
thanks again okay Rebecca Simon Peter
ladies and gentlemen leadership getting
a vision dreaming again dreaming like
like Jesus daring to dream to be able to
dare and and I really like that I know
we just kind of we kind of brushed over
it the Dare so we have all these
symptoms and all of these things and I
think there's probably a lot more but
these do cover a lot these symptoms that
she has hear about communities that are
that are lacking and it's not just about
the community it's about stuff that the
individual is areas that they're failing
in addressing that but then kind of like
the model that she has to to receive
that dream is the Dare model which I'm
addressed is again because I really like
it dare da re dare Diaz dream to dream
like Jesus to get a vision for people to
believe in the supernatural to believe
that God is able you know and just keep
going I mean there's so much that you're
able to get out just seeing the vision
that Jesus had to be able to dream like
Jesus the a is for a line aligning
others to your dream you I don't really
have a mission statement as far as like
what I do but I think a lot of people
get it I think just keep it you know
several podcast in one hangout with our
community jumping on our discord I think
you kind of get the picture really quick
aligning others to the vision and into
the dream so I think that I don't think
there's anything we have to trick
anybody to I think they're just being we
don't have to convert them over to we
don't to win them to our dream our
vision
I think being open and honest about it
is organically you're gonna find those
people who are sticking around so I've
been you know when you're looking for
people
help when you're looking for people to
put on to to delegate things to a lot of
times we want to just kind of like look
for people out there who have like this
soaring vision already they're already
running with the vision or like man if I
can connect with this person and get
them to delegate to the vision and help
and let me see how I can help them you
know vice versa
for some reason that's how our mind
works because I hold on I already have
people in my circle I already have
people in my midst who are being
faithful who are showing up they're
already aligned with the vision they're
already aligned with the dream let me
utilize them let me delegate some
authority to them some responsibilities
to them and see where they can help
people are tired of being just another
face in the crowd what when the whole
church thing turned off for me was when
I went started going to church and they
would give us these bulletins you sit
down with your family and you'd open it
up and say okay they're gonna do tithes
and offerings they got a guy talking
about missions he's gonna talk about
missions from Africa there's two fast
songs there's a worship song there's the
message and the message title is on
there's a theme there's maybe a picture
of the theme and this is the message
title and so you just sit down you watch
like a play you're a spectator no those
days are long gone my friend people
those who are seeking those who have an
active relationship with with God and
through Jesus and the Holy Spirit like
you're not a spectator you're not just
showing up to watch someone else do
Church
it's about a body of people coming
together the Bible says worth two or
more are gathered in my name there I am
in the midst of them and so people know
the power and that we're not gonna
settle for second-best so for me when it
became something I just became a
spectator I was like no this ain't
lasting much longer and it did and I had
to get up out of there and that's just
me everyone's different but I didn't
begin to become parts of fellowships
that were more inclusive and more active
and do you have a word I'll let you
share it what is God saying to you now
there are those congregations as well
but just showing up and watching a
service that you can watch sitting at
home there's nothing different no that's
that's done so aligning others to the
dream
utilizing people letting them know that
they're more than just another face in
the crowd and God has a plan for them
and a purpose for them and if they're
around you
why not promote from you know the people
who are already showing up you don't
have to go outside you don't have to put
out Facebook and you know craigslist ads
looking for people you already got
people right now the RDA r4 dare is
realized the dream you got to realize
the dream and and realizing the dream
again where there is no vision the
people perish so you got to have a
vision you got to have a goal a mission
statement again I really feel like a lot
of times I'm a sheep in wolf's clothing
right I go into a lot of these
territories where the church says stay
away man they're gonna get you be
careful you're gonna get possessed
whatever and it's just through a
conversation with the witch if you think
you're gonna get possessed by having a
conversation with a witch about their
beliefs and their practices then your
Jesus is a very small Jesus but to
realize the dream realize what it is the
purpose and I have a purpose and even
though I have conversation there is I am
mission minded with this podcast it's
not just to have a conversation there's
a mission to infiltrate an area a
demographic and a group of people who
are unchurched who have no idea our
Christian ease and our Christian rules
and our Christian doctrines they don't
know anything about that and there's a
another aspect of those people again who
are already in church who were tired of
doing Church the same way they're tired
of you know being another face in the
crowd
so it's realizing your vision and then
the e4 dare dar II is expand the dream
expanding it taking it out to the next
levels going bigger with it again but I
think if you I think that the expansion
as well kind of plays into all of those
other models because once you have them
all in place then I think organically as
you're working them your vision your
territory your borders are going to
expand anyway but I actively promote
actively getting out there actively
shaking hands and kissing babies if you
will but getting the message out there
and I think that the model that Rebecca
has here is a very similar model to the
model of Jesus and what he did so man
that organic relationship will what will
will do all of that stuff as long as
you're staying in the spirit as long as
you're staying in the word as long as
you're in communion with the father
you're organically going to be doing a
lot of these different things I believe
so make sure that you're doing that
listen to his voice again turn off the
all the other outside voices they're
here for to confuse you they're here to
scare you they're here to get you to
click on their their ads and clickbait
and all that so stay away from all of
that stuff man and tune in especially
right now to the voice of the Holy
Spirit how do you do that open the Bible
just begin to read ask the Father to
reveal his heart to you father what are
you saying and I guarantee you God has a
now word for you that he will speak to
you through the Holy Scriptures get into
it and get in with prayer expectancy
expecting God to speak to you and I
guarantee that all those outside voices
all those feelings and what-ifs they all
begin to bow a knee to King Jesus and
it's very important right now it's very
important for me in my life because I've
seen the power I've seen the the
darkness that's behind a lot of the
stuff that's going on and the only way
that you're gonna get through this the
only way that you're gonna be able to
maintain your peace while the world is
in utter chaos of the world as an other
confusion is drawing close to God James
4:7 submit yourselves to God resist the
devil resist the evil one and he will
flee he has no choice I'm submitted to
God in every area of my life
make sure that's the what you're doing
search me O God see if there be any
wicked way in me let that be your prayer
and I guarantee you that God will keep
in perfect peace those whose minds are
steadfast upon him what thalamus a piece
of Shalom thank you guys for hanging out
with me if you want to support the work
you want to be a part of the ministry
and what we're doing on Thursday nights
which is the school of the Mystics we're
doing it tonight we're going to get into
prayer meditation we're gonna do some
breath work some breathing exercises
that are really beautiful that we use
the breath to communicate with the holy
spirit to communicate with God if you
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seeker thanks again for hanging out guys
many blessings to you peace peace
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