Charismatic Chaos: Surviving Christian Revival Cults | Roy Petersen
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wqVJXnghWc
Transcript source: YouTube captions

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we're gonna go ahead and jump into
today's episode I'm excited to talk to
my guests today and if I could just kind
of give the reasons why a few reasons
kind of going into this because I was
first turned on to his work by looking
up interviews of like some Christian
mystics back in the day when I was
working on a lot of music I would try to
find interview excerpts and clips and
things like that - - we threw out my
music about what I was talking about and
I was watching some Ian Clayton
interviews and sampled it and have a
actually my song gateway to the seer
realm I've got a and Clayton at the
beginning we recently did the video and
I got the clip from this video and it's
been out at for a couple years now and
then so my someone commented on on my
video I believe it was the Kundalini
video I'm not sure what video it was but
the name looked familiar and so I
clicked the link to see who it was and
it was the page that I got the interview
from and I said oh this is familiar so I
looked at it and say oh wow I'm using
some of his footage so I was like hey
man check out this this this clip and he
checked it out uh wow that's awesome
like what you're doing and he's
interviewed so many people and it was
really cool just the synchronicities
that kind of lined up for me to
transpire but I mean and I've watched a
lot of your interviews I wanted to talk
to you because you've interviewed so
many people from so many different walks
of life and I think that at the end of
the day there's a wisdom that comes with
that like you get to kind of spread
everything out of all these belief
systems of all these doctrines of
spirituality of the or the lack of and
kind of see what these people believe
test the fruit and see what makes sense
and then pick from the good and apply it
to your life and that's kind of like
something that organically happens well
that's what you're that's what you're
doing with your podcast in a lot of ways
exactly you're you're open to talking
about any kind of beliefs
from what I've seen you've talked about
everything from real carnation to just a
classic charismatic faith healing kind
of thing and and you're you're open to
discussion with with all these people is
great I know man and from that from that
you kind of find you're able to kind of
discern what's what's going on yeah yeah
yeah no it's from it from experience man
I listen to a lot of coast to coast am
over the years when I was driving and
there's a lot of far-out right said
people would call in and say hey man I
feel like the moon is moving or the moon
opened up and people came out of it you
just get this far-out stuff and he's act
ok tell me more and he's yeah yeah he's
genuinely an intrigue that doesn't mean
he believes he believes these people but
he's open to the conversation it's it's
without judgment and cure and was a lot
of curiosity as to what their what
they're thinking what they're talking
about
yeah and how they experienced what they
would feel god to be or the universe or
however you want to look at it the
paranormal spiritual exactly I want I
want to name off just a list of some of
these people that stood out to me now
there's other people but as far as like
some of the people that you've
interviewed over the years and with many
of these charismatic leaders you were
kind of with them at the forefront of
their breakout you know Lakeland revival
todd Bentley and in his conception of
being what he is now we'll say that or
or has come to be but I'm gonna give
just a quick list just to go over this
right quick so just so people get a
context of what you do so you interview
people or you have interview people over
the years ranging from todd Bentley
Jason Upton John Crowder Bill Johnson
Sean Bowles
Patricia King Bobby Connor Bob Jones Ian
Clayton Jonathan David Hessler and so
many more but these are something like
the big names and and they've all gone
on to do yeah they've got even greater
things yeah exactly yeah they're at the
forefront Roy Peterson welcome to the
true seeker podcast my friend thanks for
having me I'm excited it's been a it's
been a while since I've interviewed
somebody on in the charismatic world
simply because I kind of left that world
for a while
once you kind of leave that world it's
like oh we didn't want to interview with
you right you know you got some crazy
videos up there but yeah those are I
just you know a lot of interviews came
from like the 2005 to the 2010 or 12
kind of era
that's so much early as 2007 I think I
think was producer King 2007 there was
frizzy and Bobby Connor
Bobby Connor was like 2005-2006 I
remember seeing a Bobby Connor 2001 like
that's hot that's how far I go back to
the prophetic movement and and yeah the
prophets and things like that but the
film is a Bobby Connor seasons my
esophagus
that's the film like titled the film and
we basically kind of it's not well shot
at all and that's what kind of the sound
isn't that great but it's Bobby going
out on the street and baths in the UK
and witnessing giving prophetic words to
these kids and it's really touching so
and in the video he kind of sees into my
stomach in the soft kiss and that makes
sense now because I had a gallbladder
problem and he was kinda he was seeing
that yeah I wanna yeah I wanna I wanna
like zoom in on some of these not
leaders but but the movements that they
were involved with and what it with
discontent you've been involved you've
been there I'm gonna zoom in on each of
these a little bit but right now I just
kind of want to get where your head is
if we just kind of gave this background
of all of the stuff you've been a part
of for me I was in in that and then I
came out of the charismatic stuff
because it was too crazy they just let
anything fly there were so many
different things especially when I got
deeper into the scriptures I'm like what
the what the hell are we entertained
what are we doing you know what I'm
saying I got it I got into the Messianic
Judaism and so it was more of a peaceful
I described it as the the power of a
charismatic revival just in the
stillness and in a piece of of let's
light some candles let's pray let's say
a prayer let's do devotion unto God so
it was the power the spirit was that
strong but
just in a small devoted way and it
changed everything for me and opened up
a lot I got into that and that spread
into other things eventually Hebrew
Israelites basically to kind of come
full circle about 10-15 years later to
where I am now I feel like more balanced
and well-rounded that's where I went in
my circle where did you go from Cheverus
mania and starting there where you are
now yeah I was there you know Lakeland's
when the Lakeland revival broke out in
2008 I was so on fire and it was
literally I'm gonna pick up a camera I'm
gonna try to get a documentary of what's
happening here because I saw in Todd and
the people on the stage I saw real
people
I saw part Rockstar part evangelists but
they were real and I had to do that so I
was speak so on fire that taken going
through that movie and filming for six
months and then filming another time
when Todd came back into ministry
because my first trip was going to be a
two-week trip to get some interviews
talked to Roy fields who's a worship
leader at the time and Roy gave me some
interviews and then in trying to find
Todd we realized Todd was kind of not
there he kind of checked out in that
first three months I got some incredible
stuff so I went from a two-week trip to
like a two-month trip where I was in the
state's I went to more in start a film
interview Rick Joyner and really great
my heroes of the faith these guys have
always been that but underneath all of
it when when it seemed that Todd was
just gone there didn't seem to be the
fire that there was in like went like me
was dead like after his fall or the lie
is one man who started July is when he
had a difficulty I think
with his marriage and that kind of glue
broke apart and then he made some
appearances when I was there in July and
into August and and it was gone and it
was gone in August so it kind of left
this tent that was this massive you know
ten thousand member audience that was
filled every night and then when it got
into the and that was like May April May
June of 2008 and then August hits and
it's it's it's just not that and and I
started a question like what there was
such a power of God in such a presence
of God in the early days of that
movement who was extraordinary
the stories of people kind of coming
together and helping each other out and
it became more of a of a church that it
was a movement and when it all fell
apart just because of one guy's
difficulties I I just like where's the
foundation in that where's if you can
just if underneath this movement is just
one guy's charismatic personality then
where where's the real power of God and
where's the truth and that's what set me
off into into going into deeper stuff
and and from there at once I kind of Ian
Clayton really following Ian Clayton who
was good enough to give me a bunch of
interviews and and we went to New
Zealand to interview him it was it was
great it just became all these different
teachings and all these different ways
to get to God and I got lost you know I
was like do I take ten steps to get into
the cross every time I pray and do I
visualize because one of the ins
teaching was to kind of step through
into the cross and into the courtrooms
and they're like 99 courtrooms and you
have to go through each
and then you have to go through these
various like you know steps to get to
God and I'm like complex big sounding as
well right it was very Old Testament and
very accurate to the Old Testament they
think they study this stuff whether it
be the concepts of like the bench of
three where you have to have three
people in agreement on any decision that
you make that's that's got to do with
the church yeah or family and I mean it
is in its doubts that detail as to how
much to study it definitely is in the
Bible on the argue is not at all it's
just in the practice of it where do you
go with that I think don't think like
how many courtrooms do you have to go
through before you become a son of God
how many there were things about that
movement that was just I just didn't I
couldn't get it and the whole thing with
there was a thing about essential oils
that they were doing and people snore
numb and stuff like I guess that's the
logical progression of where you go but
people would start with the frankincense
at the conference and I'm not talking
about en doing this I'm talking about
the followers of en yeah you put the
frankincense here as I need you you open
yourself up to get that and it was like
okay yeah this is interesting but it
didn't so much resonate it's like how do
you live this yeah and you can live it
in conferences you can go from Hogwarts
to conference you can but it's it's like
weird where do you go to the to get if
even is opening the door so these things
for for us then how do you live that day
to day and there was really no answer
it was just goes to the next conference
yeah it was just like listen to IANS oh
yeah that was that was us for like the
prophetic movement back in the day cuz
we like every weekend we had to school
of the prophets or and it was some
really big profit people and then they
would let these Bobby Connors and all
these other people come in and teach and
for the weekend and in it that's what we
lived for for like church service for
meeting the meeting
and people would be like why are you
like always seeking a word like how many
prophet and like now I've done shows
like how many words do you need how many
prophetic utterance in the scriptures
they took one in ran with it they were
changed forever like well yeah you know
just one word would be these conferences
you want a lot of words you want one
word at the begin and one word at the
end and you want another word next week
and then you want another word and you
want someone to prophesize somebody's
probably always that and it became like
my favorite to this day I have really
good there was good fruit from
Morningstar
I enjoyed were you star a lot and they
would have prophecy booths you know you
go after the you'd line up and you go
into the prophecy booth and three or
four people would prophesy over you and
they were always encouraging you know I
I had the you know I still moving the
prophetic gift but I was once known as
prophecy ROI you know I would give for
Fredi words and some of them were like
incredibly accurate uh like beyond my
understanding of how I could say if
someone come up to me I'd say in six
months you will be doing this and going
into great detail and that person six
months later saying how did you you know
that was God so I understand there's
power in the prophetic there really is
and it's it can be exciting but also
could be very addicting and you can lose
touch with reality really easy well the
there was one a Christian international
out of Destin which is close to us
I never went but that was the next thing
for our movement because a lot of people
started going there because they started
doing the prophecy booth staying come in
and we let people like people prophesy
over you you can get a room in a
recording you know you recorded over to
them but like I started getting a little
iffy because I knew that there are new
people who were smoking crack all
throughout the week and selling their
belongings and pawning their cars to
drug dealers for a week to smoke crack
and then they would be like yeah I'm
going I'm going I'm gonna prophesy this
weekend they're letting me I'm like
you've been smoking crack all weekend
you're gonna practice on Friday and
Saturday really nice people even know
who they letting on
one that shows the power of the gift
that the gift is without you know you
don't need to return to have the gift
you have the gift God's giving you the
gift button when it when you're mixing
in that kind of life it's like oh just
that's a little bit messed up because
you don't know where people are trying
to appeal or they trying to appeal to
your ego when they prophesied I guilty
of that hey if I can prophesy to
somebody famous you know hey I can move
my ministry up the level that that's
kind of the mentality it's almost like
I'm an opportunist the opportunist and
and you know I can understand that no
let me let me ask let me ask you this
did you ever see anything weird I know
you interviewed and it's not to throw
anybody off the bus cuz I think that
these people represent a movement and
represent a mentality they're just kind
of like the notable people Sean Bowles
even like what he does it's like getting
these addresses and these names and
stuff like that and I will say just as a
skeptic I think you need to approach all
of this stuff with a healthy skepticism
peter Popoff you know how to earbud in
and they people will fill out cards and
say yeah I need prayer for my lower back
my name is this this is my address my
phone number I need a miracle and peter
Popoff wife was you know sending him
messages reading the prayer cards and it
would need the addresses seven six one
nine yeah the six one nine Peterson Lane
who is it oh gee you're bad you're back
and so it would do that so Sean Bowles
was doing some stuff that's similar and
I've been in two conferences where it's
like come on now this peoples getting
all the names of their whole family and
they're just running up one at a time
who is so-and-so who is this who is that
and it's like it was a show and it's
like being in a prosthetic you want it
to be real you want it to be real and
and people fake miracles and fake the
prophetic because it builds the faith of
the people you know what I'm saying have
you seen anything like that where you
knew it was I hold on man these people
are I've experienced things where the
foreleg lands todd Bentley I was at an
unregistered conference it was a free
night nobody knew my
namor why I was there a sec 600 people
he called Petersen Roy Peter and I got
privacy I'd say it was awesome it was
very very powerful I've seen the
prophetic only a positive things I have
never seen I understand that there are
like darker sides to that movement in
terms of like peter Popoff and I'm never
like no no I've never I've never seen
that
to be honest I've only seen really
powerful stuff like my beef with it is
that it becomes just a rock show it
becomes just a concert a conference just
becomes a place where you go to see Sean
belts or you go to see Todd and there
there's not a sense of that hey we can
prophesy like this too we can we can
make this real in our lives
show both I interviewed him several
times and he's always been the kindest
you know I have interviewed a lot of
people in the charismatic world and very
few will even on second or third
interviews would acknowledge hey thanks
for doing this this is awesome
Sean Bowles was always had the greatest
character and and it was an interest
Church before it's really good and so I
have a high respect for the guy and but
it's not it's not particular speaking
even Todd I mean I still admire the guy
because he goes out there he heals the
sick and he has the faith and takes the
steps to do that kind of stuff where
very few people do but it's it's the
whole system of how you go from
conference to conference how you kind of
lift these people up as rock stars and
is greater larger than my figures when
they're really not they're really just
normal people with issues that we all
have now who do you see that is working
on to make that known I feel like a lot
of Todd white stuff now he's like I'm
not gonna lay hands on you we got a team
here
you know people that just want Todd
white to pray for that
that kind of thing and if the pastor of
his brother prays for you it's not as
good it's not the same thing like Todd
white and a lot of stuff out here he's
Shona like even though he's from that I
feel like he's trying to work a little
bit to undo some of that yeah and
there's something of his ministry that
he just goes out into the street and
talks to people and just lets them know
make sure Rob loves them and makes it
yeah that's that's great
I still think though for me I'm still I
am NOT doing another conference I'm not
going to another conference that's kind
of like I don't want to felling up going
through another conference about a
retreat retreat it's just I cannot
participate in that system I'm being
maybe I'm protesting it yeah I'm just I
maybe I got so burned out you know I've
got the t-shirt from lots of conferences
and lots of retreats and the eye of God
advanced prophetic that super advanced
prophetic the the you know I've got the
certificate to all these things and I
don't I still don't see where it
translates to a deli a deli practical
how to make this stuff real and the
question and a question then how real is
the stuff yeah when when prophets and
prophecies if you look back there you
know Bob Jones I love bond Jones but I
interviewed him in 2009 and he was like
2012 is gonna be the year the harvest
it's on my website starts on the u2 now
just watch and the fish cleaners or the
harvest in the physical you know his
prophecy just came to pass though that
the Chiefs would know yeah that's
interesting stuff it's and also John
Paul Jackson had prophecies in the 80s
about like he's more about you I think
they've kind of like really left his
stuff behind with some of the let's go
into the heavens and fight demons and
he's like hey don't do that
you know it's not yeah yeah yeah that's
where you get into that's where it gets
tricky like when you're starting to do
that and go into
realms and the the other point of this
is that once I once I came to the end of
Lakeland in the middle of trying to
finish this film that isn't question
enough for Christians because Todd was
so controversial back then even for God
TV so god TV wasn't interested in it the
people that I was filming worth wasn't
interested in him because I kind of
filmed people that were not kind of were
not acceptable to them and didn't
reflect their ministries as much as they
would have liked and it was the film
itself was not as controversial because
I didn't want to throw anybody under the
bus I didn't want to expose Todd or Roy
or anybody so I left things that you
know could have made money you know
quotes and things that we caught on
camera could have been a more mainstream
secular underground film and I took them
out and so it was play trying to just be
right on the line of this is what
happens this is what these people claim
this is what people claim wasn't
happening so I tried to walk this way
and in the end neither can't really
wanted to see the film or sponsors film
or bless the film now it was just this
is this the likely one or something now
this is Lakeland this is so this was
after working with movie star fresh fire
and which you know without which you
ended up putting out on YouTube which
right now it seems they are just video
like two hundred and sixty thousand
views that this it's huge in terms lot
of dislikes as a lot of heresy hunters
more drugs now view they are I'm not a
hunter
I used like in the early 90s I was a
hair salon owner I like the Bible answer
man for about a year but I'm not a hair
salon but it seems like heresy hunters
love Todd attracts them
film attracts them I'm glad that that's
not a documentary bro Thank You Man
thank you and I'm happy that that's the
three year process and the 20,000 pounds
of cost to make is actually people are
actually seeing it I like that the the
average view time is over 20 minutes so
it's like a 90-minute dock and people
are starting to sit there and watch it
know whether whatever they feel about it
that's that's their thing I just think
that in that process of making the film
and getting to see Todd's restoration
and and seeing still the issues of my
own that I was left with this empty oh
my heroes are not my heroes my my idols
have been well it's kind of like it's
kind of like films in The Wizard of Oz
like when you finally get in a good way
yeah that's why I think he still goes
today and he still attracts conference
controversy but more power to him
because I think almost that's part of
his calling in a way it's itself it's
sold the controversy yeah you know but
it's just like finding the right strain
door where you can get the Christian
majority with you you know versus and
also not cause harm to people yeah not
car not cause damage to people's lives
in that it's a fine line the weird thing
for me about the todd Bentley thing
because of a few years before Lakeland I
had found random videos I had no idea
who he was but seeing a video of him in
Africa praying for children and there's
all the African children and they're
shaken under the power of God and here's
this little overweight older up in age
middle aged man no tattoos no piercings
he's wearing a suit and he's you know
he's praying and he's speaking the word
and I was like wow this is powerful and
then you know five years six years later
you see
covered from head to toe and tattoo
right uh tattoos weren't affliction
shirts jeans and you know ears and
everything it's like wow it's like
trying to appeal to the youth almost
like Damon Thompson when he went to the
ramp I don't know if you kind of
followed that deal he got tatted up and
dreadlocks and you know all that stuff
when there was in the youth movement or
whatever some like conservative guy who
just like dives in and tries to look the
part
and yeah that kind of thing but that was
interesting to see and I was kind of a
heresy hunter when todd Bentley first
came on the scene with lakeland like
Mamadou who led me to the Lord they're
super into the supernatural and Isaac
you got to watch this guy he's kicking
people and they received all the spirit
and he's kicking them and they get
healed and I was like man I don't want
to see that bro show me that inscription
you know that's the kind of person I was
at the time I've come around to like
just be able to appreciate someone I
guess there was a palpable feeling you
would walk into Lakeland or start to
administer and the presence of God was
so strong and the legends that happen
which I missed in the in the film the
legends of those first few few weeks
where literally the doors would open to
the church and people would it would
knock people down those kind of things
were very real and and how to maintain
that and how to walk in that I don't
know but it didn't happen past a certain
point but it is possible and maybe it
has to do with your life and how you
live your life and your simplicity of
faith with God but there is that
possibility that there can be um there
can be that way to move in that kind of
power and and maintain it that's that's
it has no I've not seen it happen but
it's possible yeah I know do you think
he's maintained it pretty good
I don't and like I sell not bar that I'm
not part of the system although I new
friends who really love the guy's
ministry and are all about that I just
don't know um
I still
lean on like well why does it have to be
one person why can't it be a group of
people why can't there be there's not
enough money there's not enough promo I
mean that's the whole thing with like
with the fringe I've talked about this
many times the people who I think on on
the fringe on the outskirts of some of
the weird mystical Christianity I feel
like and I think I'm out there with that
for for a lot of most a huge part do you
think that these people would come
together like reaching out to Brandon
Barth Rob reaching out to John crowd or
todd Bentley or whoever so almost there
everybody's in their own camps you're so
proud yet Crowder's against Clinton even
though they were together for a while
and then the whole thing I can I mean
yeah whenever you bring up another
Minister stuff they're they're gonna
shoot it down to stay away from them
this is the only everybody in their own
camp even even lately with the whole
another table entry and the controversy
yeah there was this a pasta holistic
hostel apostolic council review and that
generated enough controversy I'm like
there's gotta be a way to do this
differently that doesn't cause this kind
of craziness and weirdness and just
honors the gospel a little bit better a
little bit more and and doesn't yeah
I'll just leave it at that and and
that's the part of my search is that
leaving like all the lake landing the
results and the fruit of Lakeland and
having a film that nobody was watching
at that time I turned I found uh I
needed some counseling to work through
the stuff and I found a counselor who
four weeks in was a Buddhist she is she
practiced Buddhism and when I explained
we just did a session where I talked
about my faith and she was like that's
interesting and one of the problems that
I was having was I was hung up on a
prophetic dream that I had a prophetic
dream that was so clear that was a
career dream and with a vocation dream
and it was like God was going to do
this and it didn't happen and would
explain that to her she's like we
Buddhists have this hava staying to you
to do you have the dream or did does the
dream have you and and it was just that
moment that brought me out of all that
stuff and and I explored them and I
still do I love like God that with the
simplicity of Zen Buddhism I love like
Thomas Merton and the Catholic mystics
those are things that for me saved my
life in in many ways it brought back a
balance and a tranquility into my walk
with God and so I walk with other people
where other people did not went from
I've got a prophesy over that person
I've got to get that person saved that
person's on their way to hell too
I'm I'm in the same place as this person
it brought equilibrium it brought
equality to me and other people where I
was not above them or below them they
were just they just are and that's why I
love about the Zen what I love about the
Catholic mystics it brought sanity to to
my walk and to my life when a lot of
insanity was going on let me ask you
this because we look at what
Christianity is today and then we look
at like the Bible and it's solely
different right it's this is a new
religion it's whether it's Pauline
Christianity or something totally
different
we we long at least how long for the
what they had do you and so you're
looking at the Catholic mystics and I'm
getting into some some interesting stuff
that I'm finding about different ways to
pray and things like that and the
Mystics with the Catholic mystics was it
it was it different back then with some
of the mystics to where like going to
Mass now and stuff because like it just
I don't see and that's why I would ask
you like is this know is translated to
is it missus is it mythical is it like
is it is it a mystical experience with
with the Creator versus like a religious
duty come I found it
personally I found it to be a mystical
experience
taking communion the Eucharist had a
Catholic Church
I found the presence of God very strong
in in the actual original but I'm not I
can't say that for everybody yeah not
everybody has that experience and it is
a personal thing it becomes a personal
thing and less of a collective let's go
up and experience the presence God
through the Eucharist it's a different
kind of organization at different web
hooking at it so yes I experienced I'm
no longer Catholic per se because I have
problems with the institution of the
church not so much the people but I
loved that it was um the Catholic Church
I went to was a african-american
Catholic Church and to see hundreds of
people just go up who were not deemed as
like these hyper spiritual people and go
off and receive Communion and wash each
other's feet that there's something very
grounding and powerful about that so it
helped me get through the kind of flight
more flighty charismatic stuff it
brought it down to reality like this
reality is happening now it's not out
there it's in the cross it's in the
blood I feed from that I I learn from
that yeah I think um as far as like a
similarity for me again going back to
like the you know I'm saying the
Messianic Christians a mess
it was like I experienced something very
similar to that in keeping the Sabbath
or Shabbat you know I'm feeling like
we're doing something that the LORD
commanded us to do much like communion
you know as often as you meet do this in
remembrance of me right this is
something sacred set apart as Holy
just like the Sabbath's you don't
remember the Sabbath it'll be a
everlasting covenant forever you know
it's always gonna be be there so like
doing something like that worth more
personal versus like an outward you know
we don't get moved unless the pastor
jumps on the
the Pew and runs down and screams a shot
like that's really what would turn turn
a sermon for us was when the pastor
jumped on the air bus article man I was
like this guy's a good he's a showman
you know it comes down to that
personality it's great that some
creatures will have that personality it
stirs people up but it's just the
personality that's the thing it's not
necessarily God behind that personality
regard within that personality that's
doing those things yeah I think that
with along with the Judaism the
Messianic Judaism which I really
appreciate I found there was an author
who translated the Gospels into the into
Aramaic the original language of of
Christ and he's more of a Sufi Lutheran
pastor who's almost like a folk singer
he'll wear a fez it's not the coolest
thing but I went to a day seminar where
he just all that was spoken were the
seven / the the prayers of Jesus from
the Gospel of John in Aramaic and he's
he he he played them we chanted them we
got in a circle and and speaking these
these prayers out these aramaic prayer
pen I felt God I was like and and it was
so out of character to feel God in a
situation that was not a charismatic
experience but the words of Jesus were
really honored the guy's name is on Neil
Douglas cloths and he's written two or
three books just translating the the
four Gospels plus the Gospel of Thomas
when you translate all five Gospels well
you know the four the synoptic the
synoptic in the Gospel of John and the
Gospel Thomas when you when you
translate them from the Greek and they
don't match they they don't seem to
match at all but when you put them in
Aramaic like 92% of of
the heart of the message comes through
each gospel including Thomas so that for
me he that system it opened my mind up
to God in a in a new way and caused me
to still feel the presence of God and to
seek after God but not in a traditional
charismatic way you're still feeling
that at that like at the same stuff too
though right like in the meditations and
the like minds and stuff when I was
living in the UK and there was a
Brighton Buddhist centre and this is
stuff I know that the the taboo of going
into a Buddhist temple or even a room
where there are Buddha statues you know
you've told these are demons and you're
worshipping the demons to rebuke and
when we go to the Chinese restaurant
right Jesus name I like very much that's
that's a demon I'm like okay but I was
in a situation in my life where there
was chaos and sit in a room and not be
told anything with other people and just
focus on the breath focus on be mindful
that that was a lifesaver
because there's no requirement there's
no you don't have to not be a Christian
there's always going there's no
knowledge exactly it's not like you have
the Angels you don't have certain keys
that you guys go you don't have to sit
on all fours and and roar into a wall or
the ground but that way there's no
reducing doing that birth of no wasn't
Toronto I love Toronto it's very simple
but and I've always loved the Toronto
blessing I had great there's great fruit
from that but I'm talking about like the
later charismatic stuff that I attend
you you know it might be chasing
Westerfield it might be somebody else
yeah yeah you got to do these things
it's almost like yoga but it was like
these are the keys thing to break
through into God and I'm like I don't do
this broke through the guy for me say
was I had a dream about Jesus and it
really changed my life I encounter with
them but but to go through all these
steps versus the Zen which is zazen
which is just sitting and listening just
get past your mind not so much shutting
down your mind but just go into the
breath giving your mind a break and and
you know most zan teachers are like you
don't have to be Buddhist to do this you
don't have to be anything you could be
an atheist you commute whatever you want
to be it just makes you a more mindful
person a cabra person and I find that
that helps and I know I know you said
you've you've been kind of out of the
loop for a while but I know you could
probably see traces of it you know in in
the past movements and stuff but a lot
of what we're doing is looking to the
east especially in the Christian
movements now and we're taking you know
breath work we're taking deep medic
meditation we're taking chanting we're
taking I mean so crystal chakra it's
like we're taking this stuff and you
know all this stuff in there applying it
now so like but that's really just found
that through your through a through your
podcast yeah and people on Facebook that
that we had connected with mutually I
loved the thing about the Kundalini and
the Holy Spirit and and what's the
difference and what makes them different
are they different because everyone who
watches the you know all the heresy
owners that are here the thing that
leaned our Bentley's Kundalini mad so I
went to a coke kundalini yoga
practitioner a guru and I said hey what
is Kundalini because all these people
who watch my film sales couldn't leave
and he was just kind of confused by it
because it's not necessarily no
experience not necessarily flopping
around that's one aspect of it but but
even he the Kundalini instructor had a
experience with Christ he somebody came
up to him and prayed Jesus felt
president Jesus I'm like that's cool I
for me I met a really great mentor and
friend called Steve Benitez and you
could see some interviews with Steve on
my youtube channel he was a on fire
Pentecostal rising star in in in London
in Kensington temple but the the next
star preacher that was gonna be and he
had a really bad experience with the
church in which I will go into as to why
but he left the church and went back
kept our relationship with Jesus but
went back into esoteric and Buddhist
teachings and for me working with Steve
was like working with somebody who was
so much like Jesus so the kindness and
the power and and the authenticity
really taught me that my world my box of
Christianity is too small
Jesus is in the church but he's also way
outside the church yeah
there are people with experiences with
Jesus that have nothing to do with the
church and their lives are healed or
changed just because if they had an
encounter with Jesus that's brilliant
because it opens up it opens up your
world when you find that Jesus and you
don't own Jesus it's bigger than you
yeah he's barely and I'd love to be able
to incorporate all the energy stuff but
Steve taught me that and I remember the
conversation I had with him I was like
Steve you know I've had the baptism the
Holy Spirit and he's like was that the
Kundalini experience I'm like no that's
so demonic how would you how could you
think that but there is something to the
similarity between the Kundalini
experience and the Holy Spirit
experience and I always take it to be
Holy Spirit descends and Kundalini Rises
I don't know how to you know whether
that I will believe that five years from
now or not I still hold to that because
I've had experiences that in prayerful
times and worst of all times I've
experienced the stuff and it's powerful
and it gives you the sense that nothing
necessarily that you are God but you are
in God so close and your your mission
almost is to become like God not in a
arrogant way work new-age way but to be
divinized to be something where it's you
know the old Greek Orthodox Roman or
Greek Orthodox preachers that are still
to this day they're buried but they're
their bodies are still fresh the legends
of the Greek Orthodox priests that they
walk into a hospital room
and just go like this and people would
just be healed and able to go home but
they believed something much more mystic
and Eastern than than we do and we
almost put it on other people to
transmit that power at odd or strong
belts or Ian when really it's not about
that it's about what you carry and what
you can you can grow in executing going
through all of this for you to
understand that though yeah yeah go and
see all the big people going to every
revival and go and see Benny Hinn and
getting Benny Hinn to pray for you and
getting all main people to pray for you
and you go back in like nothing's
changed
you name it I've gotten prayer from them
and again it just becomes they are just
people too and when you realize that
then you realize what you what they
carry you can carry it and with like I
had an experience with some tea no no
drugs no loosener genex nothing where
that that literally brought me into a
place where I saw the glory of God I saw
literally missed the mists of God I was
drunk for
for hours but it was not it was just
somebody praying over a cup of tea
restoration and I didn't know that the
person did that those kind of experience
really
you realize cuts within you God's the
chemo heavens so years from Westerfeld
well maybe the best I'm trying to hear
some of the manifestations and then they
come back to the person no it wasn't
Jason it was a great person I'm just
saying that at that point having that
teachers it could have easily gone out
hey I've got this anointing let's do
some tea together I mean like I could
take the tea thing on the road and it
would be kind of be cynical about it but
there are others who are cynical about
doing that kind of stuff you don't need
those other people to to get the
anointing from ya
you know they'd like Todd's importation
stuff I want too I mean countless times
verses like one tea experience you know
like how much do you need to go and how
much do you does that there's a system
that's kind of unhealthy which I going
to current day stuff it's it's a very
unhealthy system to just prop up rock
stars who want to have a healing
ministry and they may have healing
mystery they may do that that's great
but it's just it's the system itself
that for me has to just collapse because
I'm with you man and maybe with corona
virus and things that are happening now
people will start to realize they can't
travel as much to these places well I
mean I mean the whole Bethel thing with
you know the child or whatever you know
yeah that was big and people were like
you know some close friends right let's
pray for the baby to be raised from the
dead like I've got some friends that I
met and they did that like they lost a
child and and kept and winning got the
baby back from the morgue and kept the
baby in the house and believed for a
miracle and a week later they had to
come to terms like
we got to do something man I don't think
it I think God ray I think God brought
life in a different way you know what
I'm gonna have to change the way that we
look at this this thing you know and
there's a lot of people when it when it
becomes this like this around it's a
form what you talk about like the form
of psychosis like you know and it's in
so many people from the deep mystical
charismatic to the backwoods Baptists
like everybody has a form of it through
their religion man and it can become
dangerous as you you've experienced or
it can you have something that benefits
your life you know in a brochure Pereira
Lee yeah it could be good bad but but
when it experiences become mostly bad
when it damages people's relationship
with God when when there has to be a way
people can see and through this I guess
is and and others I've seen too is like
there are people who are able to kind of
discern and grow out of a limited
experience into a greater experience of
God yeah but along that way you are
called you recall deceived you're called
this a Satanist you're called the
Kundalini deceiver all these things and
it's not always a nicest to be on the
receiving end of those things yeah there
you go
whoa hey man I know we're at the top of
the hour bro I know you gotta go thanks
for making time to make this happen and
dude I can do another two or three hours
with you we gotta we got to reschedule
this and do it again man let's do these
stories and because I know you get it
you were there we can do one just on
stories from that time period let's do
it yes I want to do it let's let's make
it happen again brother go ahead and
plug your arm your YouTube and your
Facebook and stuff like that people just
Google that's that's my kind of moniker
my name online so it's for YouTube calm
boys owner my Instagram muscle my
doodles and drawings we didn't even get
into that yeah that's a whole nother
thing but that actually started through
an Ian Clayton conference so
there's so much good that happen from
that just downloading images and be able
to draw them and that's a big thing now
though there's people are like drawing
prophetic images hey what this exact to
you it's when they start charging oh no
but yeah so right he's just Google Roy's
owner Roy server calm youtube.com/ Roy's
owner you'll see my stuff and it's it's
a variety of stuff
interviews with charismatic mystics and
also Zen people people like Buddhists
who are practicing Christians and
Christians that are practicing Buddhism
a variety of kind of their knowledge you
got to listen all over man they didn't
be able to make I think after then you
can make and as a educated guess and you
know just because you've looked at it
all and this is what I'm sticking with
this is what yeah hey you know I want to
say hey man thank you for not getting
mad for using your your footage and not
asking for promotion oh right - me -
yeah and got mad me just say that Ian
wanted money all right for using your
interview yeah he wanted money for me
hey bro for real let's say hey let's
book this soon man okay I want to go in
deep deeper with you man that'd be good
thanks for hanging out Roy I think soon
I have many blessings peace peace you
too
Roy Peterson ladies and gentlemen go
check out his workout on YouTube Roy's
owner he's big into doodling and I
bringing people together to draw - to
create together he's got a thing called
doodle fest which is pretty cool I think
his Instagram is devoted to that there's
even some stuff on his YouTube but again
this guy you know people who we call
like greats in the charismatic movement
he's interviewed them all before they
were big maybe maybe if we get real
mystical maybe they got big because he
has an anointing on him that if he
interviews you you blow up hey what if
come on now if we're just pulling stuff
out of all out of the Hat you know we
created as we speak it interview me Roy
I want you to interview me man
blow up row I'm telling he's I mean Todd
Bentley
Jason Upton which you talk about I think
Jason Upton is really uh rounded I think
he's really uh well-rounded and balanced
when it comes to face doctrine theology
and yet and that brother got it got it
hard he's a beautiful prophetic worship
leader and uh he you know all these
depths of God fly me to the heavens with
you you're my desire all these really
deep beautiful songs and he ended up
Jason Upton ended up putting out some
song some fun songs with their son
talking about their dog they made songs
about their dog and things like that
having fun playing with the dog
and he sung them and in the church blew
up they got mad they got irate that he
would do songs like that and he caught
you know the brunt of it that's how how
far out in how out there are forms of
psychosis or disillusion that some
people can be in because I owe it's not
spiritual then its demonic your dog and
you're using your talents to you know to
not edify the body and to entertain and
he's like you're you know what I'm
saying this is how far out some people
get so Jason Upton went through - so
Roy's interviewed him John Crowder you
know with the token the ghost and
falling out and all that kind of stuff
Bill Johnson from Bethel who is the head
pastor of Bethel Assembly interviewed
him Sean Bowles and his prophetic
ministry Patricia King Bobby Connor Bob
Jones Ian Clayton Jonathan David hustler
so many people but check out his
documentary it's the Lakeland
documentary and he was there with a
camera during the whole Todd Bentley
thing and reported on it for everybody
so uh he's uh he's really good man I
really like what he brought to the table
and I wanted to again like have him on
because I feel like someone who's talked
to some so many people is more
well-rounded so I have I have friends
who people accuse me of this I'm we're
in the South right there's a certain
group of people we're in the Bible Belt
there's certain things that are taboo
and if you don't talk to anybody else if
you don't if you haven't been around or
anything like that you
just in your box and it's us four and no
more and I've got friends down here who
I mean
they're they're racists they're they're
bigoted they're they don't like gay
people like all of this kind of stuff
and when you talk to them it cut it
shows it comes out you know what I'm
saying but when you have gay friends
when you have friends of different
faiths friends who are Muslims Buddhists
or atheists or lack of spiritual new-age
friends you start having a sense of
compassion and just like not not that
they're even dying or lost and going to
hell but the hold on these are regular
people man these are people and we have
similar traits like the pursuit of the
human heart is it's all the same we all
bleed the same and so when you talk to
someone who you know that's the whole
thing about you know the West Coast
there's some of everybody that people
are just more open and more accepting of
all types of beliefs and practices and
stuff versus being in the south and in
the Bible Belt like they're more
accepting and open because they've dealt
with that kind of stuff and it's so
weird to talk to people who are so
bigoted and people accuse me of that and
maybe there is you know areas in my life
that I'm not as open or still stuck in
my old upbringing or whatever the case
is I don't know you know the fact that
it matters you don't know until you meet
new people until you get outside of your
box and - that's when you know when
you're able I knew when I was able to
finally hang around a Catholic and and
not try to win them over to Jesus you
know if you know what I'm saying of just
being sung or you know having being able
to hang around people who were attracted
to the same sex or whatever like and not
think that it was a sin or not think
that I have to convert them if I don't
then they're gonna die and go to hell
like even if I did believe that - not
like you know make that not be able to
see them as a person man you know what
I'm saying
and so that's huge and one thing about
having a lot of friends or talking to a
lot of people is you come to this this
understanding they hate the world is
bigger than me again Roy says God is
bigger than me
I think I thought I had to figure it out
but God is way beyond what I thought and
that's the thing I found that out to be
like what God does just like once you
put him in a box he likes to destroy
your box you know when you say God can't
or God won't he's like you want to bet
he speak through anything he wants and
uh and that's the thing you find out
people who are more inclusive and you
find out that God is inclusive that's
the beauty of it that's what I wanted to
talk to Rohr because I know he's talked
to so many people the thing again I
liken that to someone like George Noory
from coast-to-coast am who I've listened
to hours and hours and hours of his his
interviews and you know he's just open
he lets people tell their stories speak
their truth and glean from it but and
for me I want to know what what George
Noory believes so I like to listen to
people interview George Noory so I can
finally hear what he believes versus
hearing about what all his guests
believe kind of thing because he's kind
of made these you know what works for
you what you know I actually listened to
an interview he did with Duncan Trussell
which was pretty interesting George
Noory and Duncan Trussell if you guys
get a chance to listen to that but that
one was really good what the spotlight
was on George Noory but man being more
inclusive and talking to people who
believe differently than you I talked
and I have friends or acquaintances who
are across the spectrum all across the
spectrum and so that's the thing about
it like studying I've been in studied
all these different sects of
Christianity New Age even in occultism
and Satanism and Wicca and all of this
stuff so I feel like at this point in my
life I'm able to kind of glean from it
all and see what works and what doesn't
and pick what does trust me if Wicca
worked I would be a Wiccan you know what
I'm saying if Satanism work I would be a
Satanist there's things about that stuff
that didn't work and is actually
dangerous there's stuff about different
sects of Christianity that doesn't work
in this dangerous we didn't really get a
lot of a chance to go into it a lot but
uh Roy he's big on
speaking about psychosis and in him and
his his wife at the time we're dealing
with psychosis and and and essentially
in in these Christian cults where you
could only listen to these people and
the things that it changes the way that
your mind works in the way that you
think and I really want to have him back
on to really go a little bit deeper man
it was cool just kind of touch on a lot
of different things but to get them to
go on here I can go a lot deeper so
that's one thing I'm looking forward to
with him people who are more open man
lately I've been getting a lot of
messages because I've been open about my
faith I've been open about my
experiences and being a little bit more
vocal about Jesus and and my truth and
what I believed and it's been for you
know a couple different things I've been
in the word a lot more lately for myself
I've talked about this and you know
hearing things of maybe people in my
community say stuff that's like hold on
that's not you know so if I if I like
put off a vibe or something that is
something that I'm against and you think
it's okay I want to make sure that you
you know that it comes out of my mouth
like hey I don't even though we talked
about it even though we may be Explorer
people interview people who believe
differently I don't think that's okay so
I just want to make sure that a lot of
that is known so that right there we'll
check you and just to kind of make sure
that you know you what you're bringing
to the table and what you're known for
is its truth at the end of the day so
you know I I try to find common ground
again with a lot of the people that I
interview but it doesn't necessarily
mean that I agree with them and so I
just had to be open about that man and I
think that our people are learning from
that I think that that's what you know
draws people to listen to a show like
this and you know it's helping people
I'm definitely getting those in boxes
and and and know and I can see the
numbers going up for a particular reason
but it's something different when I'm
just like okay let's just be let's just
get to the point let's get to it so I
mean I try to always do that but just
you know that's the particular guest or
whatever we're talking about it really
I'm here to kind of go into their world
but at the same time try to bring them
into mine a little bit kind of I give
and take a little bit during the
conversation and you guys are on that
trip with me you know you're you're
making that data voyage so I'm gonna
jump here to the chat to see if we have
any questions I'm gonna say thank you
the spirit girl for the donation thank
you so much for believing in the work
and helping fund the vision you are
awesome thanks so much if anybody has
any questions let me know in the chat
and I'll try to answer them right quick
um let's see here I don't have every
answer but Jesus has many that's what
Gavin says and he says it's not his dumb
but answers you have in your life about
stuff you don't know but it's about
asking questions yep if you don't ask
the questions you'll never get the
answers so being in a in a place that
allows and encourages you to ask
questions see what you'll find that on
many of these churches and many of these
small movements discourage you from
asking questions or if you ask a
questions a question they shoot
everything down or they label everything
is demonic especially in the Christian
groups
everything's demonic to stay away from
you know that was a and I've been open
about this like even like you're doing a
couple interviews with Brandon boss drop
over the years and trying to build with
him a little bit you know when people
would would share stuff in his community
that I did or other interviews that up
there that he would shoot it down and
you know it's say all kind of stuff to
stay away and all that kind of stuff and
uh there's only you know there's no room
for it for any other leaders for sure
you know just like I'm the leader listen
to me this is what we do and and you
know that there's definitely some truth
to that right you have an idea you have
a belief you have a truth that you're
trying to communicate even through your
community so if somebody who comes in
and teaches otherwise like the right
thing to do is to get them out I mean
you know what happened to me in the
church and happens to all of you who get
into the church and start talking about
things that it's not agreed upon
doctrine or questioning the
stur questioning the doctrine hey Ida
the pastor said this but the Bible says
this and you know you get a target on
your back once you start questioning the
leadership even just just by default so
you see a lot of that in the fringe
movements and so that's kind of what
I've experienced with with some of these
leaders man that's why it's so cool to
be a part of a community and have
Christian leaders in my life and have
Christian leaders who are my friends who
who appreciate what I bring to the table
and how open I am to have conversations
and they they bless me and they
encourage me and they're there they're
proud to call me friend and brother and
so those people right there kind of take
away the excuse that you had that you're
all alone and everyone's against you
because that's not the case you know to
find people that that are in your corner
rooting for you and they're Christians
and they're believers and all that kind
of stuff you know what I'm saying it
changes your paradigm because you get
into a form of psychosis because
psychosis is thinking that you you were
the only one who's doing what you're
doing
nobody believes in you everybody's
falling or nobody gets it or whatever
the case is and people people people are
having very similar experiences to you
and you just need to find the others
find the tribe man that's what you got
to do it could be hard takes years find
them and hold them close man
it's good stuff Fredrik says judge the
tree by its fruit and not simply by
looking at the tree for sure and that's
what you got to do Kirk says you heard
jelly's new song creature yeah man it's
a pretty good song talking about the
monster under the bed and and that kind
of thing I heard that song yeah my boy
just an influence he's he's diehard
jelly roll he made sure I heard it but
yeah it's pretty good the video is
pretty dope too Chris calico in that
song but again I want to talk about
these um retreats that we have coming up
again I've got my men's retreat it is uh
let's see here
April eighteenth for those of you who
want to be a part of that April the 18th
in Mobile Alabama that's a men's retreat
and then there is the other one
that were
I'm a part of Gil's retreat that he has
going on that's in Orlando and so that's
gonna be coming up on April the 9th
through the 12th if those of you who
were in the area I know I got some
people listening in Orlando and in the
Kissimmee area or Kissimmee I don't know
they always say I pronounced that wrong
but if you want to check that out
that'll be shared on my facebook here
shortly I'll share that out as far as
the donations and the funds go for the
homeless video project that we're
wanting to do we're right at the halfway
mark
so already think thanks everybody for
funding that and I'm saying wanting to
see that video happen I definitely don't
have the budget I just put it out there
as a dream project something I wanted to
do but definitely could never just come
up with that kind of money and so I put
it out there and people are just
responding and donating things thank you
everybody who's who's who's been giving
towards that and if you haven't you want
to give anything helps you can go to
true seeker com
the link is there to give to that
GoFundMe project and you guys just see
the number that we're at right now I
think we're right over six hundred and
thirtysomething bucks and so right at
halfway so man that's quick just put it
out there you know just a couple of days
and it's already halfway so I thought it
was gonna be something that just sits on
the back burner for months and maybe
somebody would give but people are like
yep let's make it happen let's do it and
people coming out the woodwork donating
so if you want to see that video come to
fruition sooner than later make sure you
give to that go check it out it's gonna
be going for a good cause I'm not
keeping any of that money that's all
going towards paying for that in the
camera man and treating both of those
guys out to all that kind of stuff so
make sure you check it out gonna go
glance at these comments again let me
know if there's anything you want me to
talk about anything you want me to read
I'll try to read it right quick if you
want to add to the conversation
let's see Shelley says we need to stop
putting ministers and pastors up on
pedestals knowing the word and having
discernment is so important in our faith
walk I mean the thing about that is I
you you put them on a pedestal because
they do it for you I they you don't have
to do it like the pastor does it like
you know you just believe what they tell
you you don't have to like get in the
word for yourself and know the know the
word or know God for yourself because
the pastor knows God
you ain't gotta pray for yourself you
get him to pray for you you know cuz
he's anointed he's closer to God and
these weird pedestals that we have and
it gets into man worship and I've been
talking a lot about that and definitely
not supposed to be be that way so kudos
said that comment Shelly Danny says I'm
glad I found your brother if it wasn't
for you I wouldn't have been able to
share my story for people to be inspired
yeah man I'm glad I found you man you're
awesome it's good seeing you grow and I
still get a lot of feedback from our
interview that we did talking about
shadow beings man and I'm excited to see
you every step you take man in the right
direction even in the wrong direction
I'm here for you but I'm just as I see
you man I see you good things are coming
so you got it just you got that
creativity most of you do we just got to
execute finish that book you know get it
out there and get you back on for
another interview I know people would
love to read it man birthed it get it
out there into the world excited for you
man thank you guys for hanging out with
me it's been a whiie i only had a the
guest on for like right at an hour look
again i we could have went uh two more
hours for sure you're just sitting
talking about these manifestations and
and kooky experiences and the
interesting thing was he wasn't really
big on people faking experiences he's
never experienced that there's a lot of
that going on you know he said he'd
never seen it maybe he didn't get close
enough but he did say he had some maybe
some character stuff that he saw right
with some of these ministers behind the
scenes but then when it was town lights
camera action boom they're just they do
that thing they get in the character
they bring the presents they they do
what they do people are good at it you
get good at doing stuff when you do it a
lot you get better and better and better
at leading a crowd leading the people
speaking putting on a show especially
when you get to travel
like a lot of these ministers get to
travel to different churches and so you
just kind of bring that same message
with you because you know what moves
people and you get to something and it
doesn't work you don't do it to the next
crowd the next audience and you see that
going on a lot man if you guys want to
be a part of the school of the Mystics
we're doing that tonight 7:00 p.m.
central
make sure you check out my patreon
patreon.com backslash true seeker you
get access into that for one dollar so
we'll be getting into some some prayer
some meditation if I open up the
scriptures a little bit and some
questions and answers and hanging out
with like-minded people find your tribe
and this is where we hang out school of
the Mystics every Thursday night 7 p.m.
central also if you're not a part of our
discord community make sure you click
the link in the description that's where
we just hang out we do life we post
memes and pray and listen to music
together with voice chat there's text
chat get involved man you have a do you
have a place here there's something for
you to do you have something to bring to
the table you have something to offer
find out what that is man and see where
you can be used with that I'm say peace
and Shalom we'll do it again love you
guys peace peace
well that does it for this episode folks
here more episodes of the truth seeker
podcast head over to juicy Kazakh and if
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rewards go to our patreon page at
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