Fallen Angels, Giants and The Nephilim | Brian Godawa | TruthSeekah.com

Fallen Angels, Giants and The Nephilim (Chronicles of the Watchers Brian Godawa)
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-mRhQddH-Y
Transcript source: YouTube captions

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book brian kadal would just released a
new book Jezebel the harlot queen of
Israel Brian welcome to the podcast
manage your third time here what's going
on hey thanks for having me on Derek
yeah I'm very excited about this new one
my fans are saying it's my best yet so
that's a good sign yeah yeah that's good
stuff man so this is the good one like
you know I like I like the spiritual
stuff I like the gods the demons the
angels and all of this kind of stuff and
spirits and I think that Jezebel I think
there's a good place to start with with
the Chronicles of the Watchers if you
will so I think just about to go and
they kind of kind of knock out man yeah
absolutely you you mentioned it it's the
first in the series chronicles the
Watchers and the premise is based on it
I'll start with a big picture in terms
of I've written two other best-selling
series called Chronicles of the Nephilim
and Chronicles of the Apocalypse and
this is chronicles of Watchers and they
all work within the same sort of
biblical universe of like you mentioned
gods demons angels and and such and how
does that all work and in relation to
biblical monotheism and such and so I'm
telling those stories and the the the
original premise of Chronicles of the
Watchers is connected to Krause's
Chronicles in the Nephilim in that they
both address this issue of the Watchers
and what are the Watchers well there's a
lot of folklore and a lot of legends and
all that kind of stuff and a lot of
fiction that that rises up around the
notion of the Watchers but the idea
basically comes from the Bible and you
know you you the term is actually used
by Daniel and I think it's um I think
it's Daniel 10 or so and he talks about
how there are Watchers over these
nations and they call them the Prince of
the Prince of Persia Persia the Prince
of Greece and the Prince of Israel
and the Prince of Israel is Michael
which is traditionally known as Michael
the Archangel so he's like the Prince
over Israel what does that mean well the
notion is that and scholars will tell
you that that word for Prince and Hebrew
is not an earthly prince Tsar it's
actually a heavenly Prince or a
spiritual Prince so there there are
these these the notion that's happening
there in Daniel that we read about is
the idea of these over over each of the
nations there are territorial
authorities or principalities the New
Testament calls them principalities and
powers and the idea was that over in the
ancient world all people believe this
even the Jews they believe that that
that over the nations there were
territorial authorities so that when you
had a earthly king or a kingdom there
would be a spiritual or heavenly
authority over it and they would often
link these authorities the spiritual
entities to two stars and the and the
planets and such like that so there's
this very fluid sort of imagery that
that that is around this notion and
excuse me and there's not a lot in the
Bible about the Watchers or explicitly
other than say those Daniel passages but
there we draw the concept of it comes
out from a lot of passages and the the
the the the two predominant ones that I
can refer to our Psalm 82 and
Deuteronomy 32 and in Psalm 82 we read
about the Council of the gods that that
sits around Yahweh's throne and of
course you know yes I know that Judaism
is a monotheistic religion so when it
uses the term gods it's not the same
it's not really the same way that we use
when we say the word God we
automatically think of you know that God
the Creator God you know sovereign
all-knowing all-powerful all that kind
of stuff and no one created him that
kind of a thing in but that when the
Bible uses the word gods it's more a
generic term that you that references
beings of the
spiritual realm so for instance angels
were considered Elohim spirits of dead
people like king who was it that came up
from the dead that Samuel yes Samuel
came up from the dead right he was
called an Elohim God though Elohim is
basically spiritual spiritual beings in
the Bible and of course Yahweh is the
Elohim of Elohim so he's like the God of
gods so that notion of God it's not
polytheistic in in the Jewish
construction of it it's not polytheistic
but it is definitely they are divine
beings and where do they come from
well they they come from God's throne
and Psalm 82 talks a lot about this
where they there are basically the
heavenly hosts of Yahweh which you know
the word angel is what most English
users use of these terms and that's
technically angel is a term that is more
of a status for a responsibility it
needs messenger so angel is a generic
term and it's not really as accurate
because there are different level beings
in the spiritual realm in the Bible
we've got the cherubim and the Seraphim
who are throne guardians and those are
wild bizarre creatures we won't talk
about right now and then you've got sons
of God and the sons of God in the Bible
are the family hosts that surround
Yahweh and they're also his warriors
right and then below that you've got
like you know evil spirits and such and
and oh I'm sorry
and then of course within there is also
the Watchers and these Watchers are our
sons of God so so just in setting up
this picture then they've got this
notion of the territorial powers and so
the idea was that whenever a nation was
at war with another nation or you know a
city it would they understood that there
was also a war going on in the heavenly
realm and you know you see this come out
in various biblical passages as well
like I mentioned Daniel when Persia and
Greece were sort of fighting things over
they those territorial authorities were
also fighting so that that's the notion
that's going on there now where does
this come from like who made this up
what what does this mean is it just a
mythical or is it real well again it
comes from from the Bible and so
Deuteronomy 32 is the other passage that
that if you look it up 32 8 through 10
verses 8 through 10 I think it talks
about how at the Tower of Babel after
the flood mankind is still evil right
God destroys the world starts it up
again but lo and behold within a few
whatever centuries I don't know you've
got mankind you unifying in in evil to
build a temple that was was basically a
stairway to heaven where the gods would
come in and commune with humanity it was
a ziggurat basically right so the Tower
of Babel it represents this unity of
evil to deify mankind so to speak and
God stops it and how does he do it by by
confusing the languages and creating the
70 nations the 70 nations you read about
in Genesis 10 so biblically speaking the
the Jews understood themselves as the
the world is comprising of about 70
nations and of Israel and in Deuteronomy
32 it says that when God at the tower
Babel when God's separated the tongues
in the nation's he he allotted those
nations to the authority of the sons of
God and but to-to-to himself
Yahweh allotted Jacob or Israel so he's
basically saying all the Gentile nations
are under these authorities sons of God
as their authorities but Yahweh and the
God over Israel and and weird what's
that all about well I think that you
know and I've done Studies on this and
my book Psalm 82 which is also on the
Amazon I I detail it much more detail
but the idea was that you know before
the flood sons of God from God's throne
these were basically angelic divine
beings and some of them fell to earth
and they they made it with human women
and bore them the Nephilim which were
Giants and strange hybrid basically
whatever all that strange bizarre stuff
that's going on there is essentially
that these fallen Watchers violated
God's separation of holiness in other
words the notion was creation was
separated land was separated from water
woman was separated from man and the
heavens and gods were separated from
humanity but by coming and mating with
humanity they were violating that holy
separation that's the I think that's the
theological principle that's going on in
Genesis so they're they're falling
creatures so after the flood when when
mankind's evil again and just you know
unifying any what God basically says
okay you're gonna keep worshiping these
false gods I'm gonna place you under
their authority and see what how you
like it so like saying okay I'm gonna
let the mob take over and we'll see if
you like it right yeah and so
consequently the Jewish understand was
that the Gentile nations were under
under the authority of you know
basically demonic beings that were the
gods and my premise of my uncle's the
Watchers is I thought you know what if
the the gods of the ancient world
what if they weren't just myth what if
they were real beings but they were
these fallen Watchers over the the
territories right and and maybe they
were masquerading as false gods so
consequently you've got where they you
know draw worship from humanity to draw
them away from Yahweh that's sort of the
the big storyline that's going on it so
I thought well you know if you know
about the ancient world like take for
instance Babylon you've got K Marduk
who's the king of the gods and maybe
he's a territorial spirit of Babylon
you've got a sure over in Assyria and
then in Canaan you have various deities
male the storm well actually got L L was
the was the Supreme God but their notion
of L was really more like an old man who
sits on his throne and just watches
everything he doesn't really do anything
and he's kind of gets drunken and you
know he says legends about L being at
the top of Mount Sinai
yes yes but but anyway so L is sort of a
passive deity buddies of the supreme and
baile is the storm god of canaan he's
the one that brings the rain and the
fertility of the land and such like that
because of course that's how they lived
and survived and Bale had an escort had
several escorts one was ash tart another
was a not his sister and there's a third
goddess called
Astra a Shura was the actually the wife
of L and so the story line in Canaan is
basically that Bale sought to have
supreme position in the pantheon just
under L so he rose up and and built
himself a house and Asherah
basically convinced L to let bail build
his house and all that and not his his
uh warrior sister helped him and so
there's that's kind of a storyline going
on in Canaanite and so I thought well
I'm gonna retell these biblical stories
with with an eye towards telling the
spiritual stories as well so as I'm
telling The Jezabels
story I'm also telling what might what
might the heavenly world looked like at
the same time so I've got these various
gods like Bale and a shrine and like I
said they are these fallen watch or
deities and and they are trying to
jockey for power and over the canaan and
don't forget God told the Israelites to
you know take over cain't disinherit the
Canaanites so they they're still in the
process of doing that and so
consequently it's a battle of gods
between Yahweh versus Bale the storm god
that's kind of how I how I depict it and
that's death so that's the basic premise
and eventually this series will Express
in to other nations like the second
novel I have is already out we won't
talk for length on that one but it's
called Qin Dragon Emperor of China and
in that one I go into the history of
China and you know yeah there were there
already what's it all the reptiles in
the iconography and stuff
Jews in China and things like that sure
drag him again like you said yeah and I
rooted in history as well and and I tell
the story of the first emperor of China
the Dragon Emperor and he was a very
fascinating guy he was a tyrant who
sought after eternal life and I bring in
how that's connected to the Tower of
Babel and the Magi and all that stuff so
so that that's where the series is going
there will be some biblical stories and
yet to begin with and then ultimately I
hope to spread out to other nations so
so that's the premise of the big series
you know let me uh let me ask you this
just because you mentioned it right
quick and and you had a book on it but
um I got a comment yesterday I think it
was or the day before or my Michael
Heizer excerpt about Psalm 82 and the
person just kind of painted this long
story saying that Psalm 82 in the in the
divine counsel of the Elohim that were
there the counsel of the gods they were
trying to say that those were regular
people who like carried the law and God
used to bring the law to Israel in that
like the mention of those people there
those gods were actually people have you
ran into that or listened to that at all
yes that is the dominant view in
Christianity until now and it began with
Agustin before Agustin most church
fathers didn't they believe those were
spiritual beings excuse me here got a
little bit of morning yawning and such
perfect um so but did Agustin because
Agustin came from a pagan and you know
he actually came from a very mystical
background so he was reacting against
what he you know what he converted from
and he and so he's the one that sort of
began the idea that these sons of God
are just you know earthly Kings who
thought of themselves as gods or another
interpretation is they were earthly
rulers and judges who are meant to judge
people but the problem with that is and
and Michael Heizer does pretty much
demolish that argument and he's got a
website where he's got free articles or
he would equals more in-depth into the
are the objections
and his website is just Michael Heizer
you know Michael s Heiser comm doctor
MSH comm I think Devon Council you've
got a whole website just for the Devon
column yes yes he's the master the
scholar of that but just briefly the
idea is that there's there's several
things that are going on if you look if
you do a study of the phrase sons of God
you'll see it's actually you know what
does that mean even you know does God
have sons you know is that just a
metaphor but the thing is is everywhere
it's used it's a technical term it's you
know we can say I can say like you know
I'm a son of God or whatever because I'm
born of you know bullet faith in Christ
or whatever but but the sons have gotten
the old testament is a very specific
technical term and and if you look it up
it always is used in reference to
heavenly beings around God's throne and
so consequently these cannot be human
judges and for example Psalm 82 right
there then and there it starts out God
has taken his place in the divine
council in the midst of the gods Elohim
he holds judgment and so if you say that
you're using the term gods of of people
well the problem is is that concept
everywhere it's used they're heavenly
beings around God's throne now in the
there are some less explicit passages
like maybe this sentence you might say
well it could be either right but if you
look at elsewhere you see oh it's always
used in reference to heavenly so for
example there's a there's a a companion
psalm called Psalm 89 and in Psalm 89 it
continues to talk about this heavenly
Council and the Holy Ones around God's
divine Council and here's what it says
some 89 first five let the heavens
praise you in the Assembly of your Holy
Ones well where's that is out earth or
in heaven for who in the skies can be
compared to the Lord who among the
heavenly beings is like the Lord and of
course that word heavenly beings in
English is actually the word Bonet let's
see who among the I'm looking up the
Hebrew here to make sure
I believe that's Bonet hello him again
so to be feared in the counsel of his
holy ones etc so it's in the skies it's
not on earth that's the point and their
notion is in the heavenlies this divine
Council of Holy Ones of heavenly beings
of Elohim is in the skies so you know
you do have to sort of do an extensive
Bible study to really tease this out and
understand what's the bigger context but
yeah the the idea that there are human
judges that are called gods in the Bible
it actually there's no actual explicit
passage where that is that is happens in
the Bible so I argue that it's not it's
not human judges for sure yeah and so I
think those same people would say
Genesis 6 was talking about you know
regular men who came down the sons of
Cain is it uh yes calling him the son
and then you have the sons of God
argument but but then again getting into
the New Testament and in understanding
spiritual warfare you know it kind of
like the old is the new the new is the
old revealed in the oldest and new
sealed so we're kind of getting that
spiritual glimpse even in some of the
passages in the in the New Testament
teaching about spiritual warfare and a
lot of about what that stuff met
principalities powers all of that stuff
kind of is explained in the New
Testament right some of these obscure
verses if you were so in fact if I can
give you an example one more to stand
this topic because it is so interesting
is in that Psalm 82 God says to these
people in the divine council that
creatures whatever they are he says I
said you are God's sons of the Most High
all of you nevertheless like men you
shall die and fall like any Prince so
God's gonna judge these but think about
it if if he's saying you are God's two
men nevertheless you'll die like man
that's weird that's contradictory it's
it's like it's non sequitur but if they
are divine beings they are gods
nevertheless God is going to judge them
like we know human men right and they're
going to die like human men yeah then
there's a contrast that makes sense of
the passage and one step further is
of course readers of the New Testament
recognize that that's where John I'm
sorry uh Jesus quotes this verse in John
10 and he Jesus says he's being
questioned by you know the the Pharisees
you know and they says you know you're
being a man and you make yourself out to
be God and Jesus says is it not written
in your law I said you are gods if he
called them gods to whom the Word of God
came in scripture cannot be broken do
you say of him whom the father
consecrated sent in the world you are
blaspheming because I said I am the son
of God so think about this if that
passage of Psalm 82
if Jesus saw that as being human men are
called gods then what he would be saying
here is nonsense he would be saying well
look he would he Jesus would not be
claiming to be God on earth he would be
saying well look uh there are other
human men that are called gods so I'm
calling myself a God doesn't make me God
it just makes me a man that's what he'd
be saying I know I know it goes against
the I think that you know the premise of
the book and the understanding and even
my understanding of what I would I
believe because it's definitely you know
along the lines of what you believe with
this but it's kind of interesting to
think about I'm just thinking about it
here it's almost like there was a belief
and maybe you've heard of this I don't
know but it almost seems like whoever
believes this maybe thought that the
patriarchs were immortal like they were
gods here until they sinned like like
Moses and Elijah and Enoch and all these
guys they could live forever until they
sinned against God and then God like
declares that you can die have you
looked into any of that at all because
you know we talking about some of these
people living you know 900 years and
stuff is up you sin now it's time to
it's time to go back you know what I'm
saying it kind of paints a weird picture
that I've never I've never really looked
into but it's kind of interesting to
talk about yeah I haven't heard that
myself honestly and but I would I would
say this I to get my you know my views
about this you know about these this
world it comes from the scriptures and
if you can
in the scriptures I'm not aware of
anywhere that it says that so I'd be
happy to interact with anyone who would
want to show me where it says that in
the Bible I'm not you know so I would
say it's not there but but hey I'm open
to listen to what anyone can point out
in oh yeah that's these things but no I
I haven't heard that before but but the
idea here is that so Jesus
clear and Emma Jellicle zong Christians
of all like ELQ you believe that Jesus
is clearly saying he's the son of God as
in a divine being that he is God in the
flesh and his argument wouldn't make
sense if the gods of Psalm 82 were human
it would be the contradiction of him
claiming to be divine so they're you
know we could go on and on but that that
that's the that's the sort of picture
that I'm definitely operating on and
again if people want to hear my
arguments I interact with the set fights
theory the human judges theory in my
book another book called when Giants
were upon the earth and in that book I
go into biblical arguments about the
sons of God and about the Nephilim and
all that so there's a lot out there on
that stuff but yeah and and I had to be
frank hyzer is is the the great scholar
to go to for that kind of stuff but I'm
the great popularizer I write it in a
way that also connects with other people
who are you know who maybe kid whatever
for whatever reason tainment oh you know
other theories and things like that so
yeah yeah if I could if I could bring
another one in on this right now now I
do draw some references from the Book of
Enoch and of course the Book of Enoch
I'm sure your your listeners are
familiar it's not considered Scripture
by the church tradition and and I don't
consider it Scripture however I do give
it great respect that has been lost in
church history because of you know
various biases and such that the New
Testament quotes extensively and shall
we say draws extensively from Enoch even
quotes it explicitly in a couple cases
and draws from the language and from the
theology of Enoch and so therefore
excuse me if the Bible draws from
then I that means it has great respect
for it so I have great respect for it
some people then conclude that therefore
it should be Scripture I don't but it
doesn't matter I mean I still believe
you can draw truthful things from it and
weigh it against other things right so
in the Book of Enoch we we definitely
the first book the book of 1st Enoch we
read more extensively about these
Watchers and what they did before the
flood before they were judged so I
definitely do draw from that picture as
well which is also another again this is
Orthodox Christian I'm an Orthodox
Christian but we just I think that we're
on the cusp of of historically of
Christians sort of opening their minds
from from a history of being
closed-minded ignorantly
of other traditions and of other source
materials out of fear you know they say
oh nothing else can be true only the
Bible and that's of course ridiculous
but on the other hand that doesn't mean
everything's true you know like oh
whatever myth I read it's true you know
and so fact that's what I do is in the
book Jezebel and I've done this in my
other series as well I draw from the
Canaanite mythology of Bale and I make
it part of the story and my my
approaches is called subversion in other
words I'm subsuming everything
underneath this biblical Christian
worldview and so that even the notions
of the pagan world of Canaan are
ultimately as I would put it submitted
to the worldview of the Bible so for
example in the in the myths of Canaan
there's a story that they that that they
used to express the fertility cycle of
the land for harvest and such right and
so good since Bale is the storm God the
god of fertility he brings the rains for
the crops right and they lived and died
by the rains right so so there's a story
that MOT the Lord of death from you know
from shale captures Bale brings him down
and and and makes him a prisoner in in
shale or Hades
and bail sister a knot she's a warrior
goddess right and she goes down and she
rescues bail and she cuts up Mott to a
thousand pieces burns them in the ground
and scatters them right so she destroys
the lord of death and she brings mot
back and when Matt comes back up from
from Hades that's when the harvest
begins and and what the what the various
Canaanites would they had a famous
saying and it's in the Bale epic but the
Bale epic is a the ancient mythological
text that we found a new Guren and it
goes back thousands of years and and it
and and they they yell out where is bail
where is bail you know because he's gone
because they were there in the you know
the winters you know all right
and so we bail comes back he brings the
rains and it brings the harvest so
that's sort of the fertility myth right
so I actually incorporate that story
into my story and tie it to the story of
Elijah on Mount Carmel so if you know to
you know update your listeners and maybe
they know the story it's them one of the
most famous stories is there's a okay
let me back up Jezebel is a princess of
Tyre and we're in the ninth century BC
Israel the two kingdoms are of Israel
and Judah are split or I'm sorry I lost
my thought yeah Israel and Judah and so
you've got Israel in the North Judah in
the south and in the South Jerusalem is
the capital and they have the temple of
God in the north is Israel and the
capital is Samaria and they're there
they're not there at odds with each
other right and so what happens is the
Syrians or the era man's in the north
and different words for the same people
they're actually there founded in the
capital city of Damascus and the Syria
the air man's are at war with Israel so
Israel creates a treaty becomes allies
with Phoenicia which is routed and tire
and they seal the deal with a marriage
you know like Game of Thrones right and
so the marriage is princess Jezebel is
the the daughter of the king of Tyre she
marries King Ahab of Israel and that's
the story I'm telling and and how that
those politics comes out and then but
what happens is that Jezebel brings bail
worship into Israel and of course Israel
was only supposed to worship Yahweh she
brings bail worship such that she ends
up building a temple to bail in Israel
which is just unheard of right and so
that's that's that's what what's going
on
spiritually right and interestingly
though people many Christians have a
naive understanding I think I did of the
Old Testament I used to think oh the
Jews were kind of they worship one God
so they were monotheists and
occasionally they fell into politique
polytheism right with more I study this
and studied archaeology the more I came
to realize no really the Jews were
polytheists who occasionally lapsed into
monotheism in other words they
worshipped all throughout the Bible they
were always worshipping all these other
gods in fact archaeology shows us that
many of the the the Jewish nation at
that time believed the aiwei had a wife
and the wife was a Shura now if you
remember earlier I said that Canaanites
believed Astra was Elle's wife so
so there's syncretism going on here and
yeah and and they're basically you know
saying oh yeah Yahweh's like oh yeah
always Ellen and he always Yahweh has a
sure as a wife so many Israelites
actually worshipped Astra as Yahweh's
consort so this stuff was already going
on they were already worshipping other
gods and I tried to I wondered what
would that be like what would life be
like you know in Israel like that where
they're worshipping these other gods and
their Israelites you know so I try to
depict that in my novel accurately so in
comes Jezebel with bail worship
and then you know what happens is God
calls Elisha the Prophet the first of
the major prophets that are sent to call
Israel back and Judah back to Yahweh and
yeah Elijah comes into Jezebel he says
hey I'm there's gonna be a drought on
this land until I say so
and the drought goes on for three years
why why well if Bale is the storm god of
Canaan who brings the rains basically
Elijah saying no he isn't
yowee is and my God's gonna stop the
rain until you repent that's basically
what's going on there see so by the time
they get to Mount Carmel and it's this
big showdown it's like who's God we'll
both put a sacrifice on the altar and
who's ever got it is that cause fire
from heaven he's the God we follow right
and that's the big dramatic case where
you have the prophets of bale cutting
themselves and bleeding and all this
calling on bail and nothing happens and
Elijah goes up there he prays and fire
comes down from heaven and consumes it
so it's this powerful confrontation and
I thought well what and then of course
it rains right after that so Elijah
bring Yahweh's is the God who brings the
rains not bail that's kinda what's going
on so I depicted in the novel what might
be going on in the spiritual realm while
that's going on and I incorporate that
bail myth where he he's taken captive
down to shale and a not rescues him and
I so you could see how I'm like
integrating these but not in the
synchronistic way I'm actually
integrating them in a subversive way
where my paradigm is basically the Bible
and I'm unashamed about that and I try
to make sense of all these other things
in in light of that context if that
makes sense
that's very interesting man I can't help
but but try to make the you know I'm
saying the syncretistic
linked back from this this whole bail
thing and a knot tying that into Jesus
going down into you know hell or you
know Hades or whatever and and taking
the keys and defeating death himself and
then him coming and rising again is
there any correlation there with with
the stories or syncretism or well I
wouldn't call it syncretism I would just
simply say that all it is it is a fact
all major religions tend to have these
stories of Heroes of any of all ilk who
go on their journey into into Hades it's
pretty much all all religious belief
systems have that so I think that that's
a Romanian all kind of yeah yeah exactly
well yeah but I mean even um so bail
goes down you've got Heracles and Greece
who goes goes down and it's all very
similar but you know what I'm saying is
I have no problem can tie in and I'd
like what you're doing cuz you're you
you are going to start you know going
into these other cultures and saying
look here's the similarities and kind of
tie it in in spiritually I mean and and
I would say that's the weakness of the
Christian tradition is in in these later
centuries we've been fearful of these
other religions and we want to separate
them from Christianity so we deny them
we ignore them we don't know you know
and and I I think it's hurt us and and I
think I'm well I'm willing and I think
there's a new wave of us Christians who
are willing to say no there are we
should not be afraid of admitting
similarities but there are different
ways of interpreting similarities and
automatically a lot of secular people or
skeptics or whatever other know there's
muscles what they're Takens yeah they
say oh yeah see you you stole it or it's
all just it's all the saying the same
thing so therefore you're not you're no
you're not unique or anything like that
what should I say
no no absolutely not it that could be
the case that's definitely one argument
but it's also possible that people use
common images and common language and
common ideas to express different things
all the time
for instance in today's world I'm a
Christian and and there's maybe an
atheist and we both may use references
to what we know of I of the Einsteinian
universe of quantum physics or something
like that right and of course they you
know in a hundred two hundred years
quantum physics may be outdated but we
both looked at the world through that
way so I'll use science fiction to tell
my stories about what I believe
and they'll use it to tell stories about
what they believe true or not fiction or
nonfiction it doesn't matter but that
point is is that we're drawing from the
same sort of intellectual milieu so
drawing from the same languages to tell
different stories with different
meanings yeah and and so therefore for
example you know the classic one is is
that Noah's Flood right you know every
religion has Noah's Flood therefore if
you trace them all back to the oldest
story that's where it began and you know
epic of gilgamesh might be one of those
stories or no I'm sorry there's one in
ancient Sumer about a what's his name
his name is called zit I can't remember
they haven't but anyway Sumer has the
oldest story about a worldwide flood
therefore they all came from that well
that's possible but it's also with it's
also entirely likely with plenty of
evidence that know there was maybe there
was a real event of a flood and then as
after that as people spread out on the
earth they took that story with them and
they spun it within their own storylines
right
and so we all like history huh we have
history now his story who's ever telling
it it's at the mercy of the person
telling exactly exactly
so I have no no problem in omitting the
similarity and even realizing that maybe
you know maybe Moses uh while he's
writing the Pentateuch draws something
from some Egyptian sources or whatever I
don't care that the point is is what's
the theological meaning and message that
very that Israelite is communing so yeah
I think I think what you're bringing up
though it's it's a good point and it's
definitely something needs to be dealt
with
I don't think Christians aren't as
fearful of it as they used to be because
again this notion of everything evolves
out of something is it's just it's a
simplistic paradigm that doesn't answer
and here's the other question is there's
so when you've got something that's
similar you you look at the differences
and that's what tells you if they came
from each and sometimes the differences
are so significant that they show you
they could not have come from the same
source and that's what I would argue is
going on here so
so so the fact that there are these um
journeys to the underworld come back
with victory and stuff I think that
that's a very lot much like CS Lewis and
toking I think that that expresses
that's in the created order the need for
your heroic being to enter death and to
return with victory I think God the
Creator embedded that into the universe
and that's why we tell those stories I
mean through does that mean Jesus really
didn't do it it's just a story no I know
but I don't think I'm more of the ilk
that it's like look if you have problems
with it really happening fine put that
on the shelf for the second and yes and
I believe that in some way he did I
don't know what that looks like
yeah but to me the most important thing
is the the theological meaning and
message and and that's the priority but
I do believe this stuff happened but the
reason why you might hear me barking is
because the way ancient people did
history is not necessarily the same way
we do history so when we say things like
did it really happen it's like what do
you mean by that because you've got in
the ancient world in the Bible for
example there's lots of poetic language
and like for instance every time there
is a fall of a nation you're City there
the languages use the stars fell from
the sky the sky rolled up like a scroll
and the blood the moon turned to blood
well that didn't literally happen that's
the language they used to express
dramatic spiritual is a thousand years
of it was a thousand years or does that
is that an assembly the drool is that
yeah so this obsession with literalism
it's like okay so does that mean that
the vents never happened it's just
poetic no what it means is they use a
lot of poetic language to describe what
happened so we can't always know exactly
what it means so we have to study to
find that out we've got a little
off-topic there but no but it's good at
all it all ties in though I really do
just thinking it in and you're right
though because I mean we have a lot of
listeners who are like that and and I
don't like I'm like this find one in
practice it when
comes to it like your your spiritual
practice and your religion like
Christianity is is definitely like the
ancient path and all these ancient
modalities it has captured that stuff
in its in its it's still here the eggs
the spiritual expressions
you know the allegory the myth and all
of that stuff is embodied in it and it
works like it works you know what I'm
saying and so yes when those people want
to go back to Sumer or they want to go
back to you know bail worship or Babylon
IP because they want to get to the
original I think we all do right so we
think that ours is the original it but
if it is if it ain't it works but if you
want to go into the other stuff you
there's nope you don't have the
spiritual practice to do that it's that
all that stuff is lost it's embodied
within faith in story and myth and
legend and so to have a structure of
spirituality you I'm saying growth all
of this stuff like encountering guy I
think it's embodied in Christianity as
well you know yeah yeah and and you know
so I definitely I definitely come from
the you know Orthodox Christian view and
I think that it you know Jesus is the
only way to know God and such but like
like yourself I think I'm similar in
that I'm like I'm not afraid of these
other religions anymore and I I you know
I can't stop people I can't make people
you know to if they're going to explore
things are gonna explore things but and
there it's definitely deception in the
world people can be deceived no other
experiences right come out to be like a
lot of these texts were you know forged
to actually throw people off that you
know secret knowledge or somebody's
stuff exactly exactly absolutely in fact
the Gnostic scriptures you know yeah
everyone tries to say oh look see how
close they are to the Bible and they
were actually original Scripture and the
Christians rejected it because it didn't
they didn't like it like no no actually
came like two hundred years after and
they were ripping off the Bible to try
to change and doing a bad copy like you
can you can read it and you like code on
your yeah eyeing too hard there's either
even some other other books like you
would want to look into like the your
ranch a book like there's a part of me
who that wants that to be real but
rehan I'm like yes yeah are you trying
too hard at the guy what we already have
you know but sure well let's get into
this a little bit so let's go into a
little bit more detail spiritually what
Jezebel is I think we've painted a
picture about the gods and then kind of
what happens in the spirit realm and
these powers that are fighting what
happens spiritually there's a scripture
I want to go to and I know you know the
scripture but um even in the chat here
people are saying that they've battled
they felt like they've done battle with
Jezebel or a similar spirit and I also
have comments and and friends who who
don't believe that that's a thing like
you there's people make that up to you
know start deliverance ministries or
whatever right but revelations 2 and 20
and it says nevertheless I have this
against you you tolerate that woman
Jezebel who calls herself a prophet by
her teachings she miss misleads My
servants into sexual immorality and the
eating of food sacrifice to idols let's
see that the King James Version let me
go down to that it actually says that uh
because you allow it it says that you
allowed her to teach I have this against
you you did a lot of good stuff but you
allowed her to teach and seduce my
servants to commit sexual immorality and
things so this is a you know the end of
the Bible if you will you know the the
end of Ages in a very timely message to
churches that really existed at that
time and I think a message to us as well
these patterns what we talked about the
spirit of Jezebel and what what it looks
like for us today spiritually as a
believer is this something that we
contend with and this in the spiritual
realm as well ya know that's a great
question
let's let's talk a little bit about
Jezebel then because there's I think
there are some misunderstandings based
on these passages that people have you
know I sometimes use the term spirit of
Jezebel I use it by analogy I don't
there are some who believe there's a
literal spirit of Jezebel I don't I use
it just as an analogy to express you
know they're doing the same kinds of
things
she did type of thing right only a
modern-day version like for instance
abortion abortion is human sacrifice and
Jezebel brought aboard a horse
Jezebel brought bail worship into Israel
and part of bail worship was human
sacrifice see and so I do make that
connection that and I think human
sacrifice
abortion is a form of sacrificing humans
on an on an altar of convenience right
so I will make connections like that by
way of analogy you know um but let me
just merit is the essence in and what it
kind of brings with this anyway
yeah versus a literal demon at one plate
oh you know what I'm saying yeah if
they're in a little demon or not I don't
believe that there is but whatever if
you do the the the the principle is
what's the what's in common what's
what's the similarity and that is what's
important and there are things that I
think are very much like Jezebel today
you know back to church members use a
you know use it of loose women oh she's
a Jezebel alright and then in the
secular world likes to take that badge
and turn it around and make it positive
so you've got the website famous
feminist website named Jezebel right and
they try to wear that as a badge of
honor well here's the problem she uh the
novels called Jezebel harlot queen of
Israel and you make that connection as
well and in in Revelation in fact I
think the book of Revelation is a
picture of two women
it's the harlot on the Beast who rides
the beast versus the wife or the Bride
of Christ and so and then the Jezebel is
connected to that harlot as well so
there is a picture wordplay that I
think's going on there but here's the
point here's the thing when I use that
word concept of harlot and such and even
in Revelation was talking about sexual
morality it's true that pagan worship
did involve sexual morality and by the
way I have a lot of that in my novel
Jezebel I show how the fertility
religion included a lot of immorality
but I think that reference isn't in the
Bible are not actually talking about
that is
called sexual immorality what I think
they're talking about is spiritual
unfaithfulness to Yahweh and what that
means is in the Old Testament and in the
new but in the Old Testament
Yahweh always called Israel you are my
wife you are my wife I am your husband
over married to you America the problem
that all the prophets from Isaiah to
Jeremiah to Ezekiel whenever Israel fell
away from Yahweh they always called her
a harlot or a prostitute or an
adulteress very fright or [Â __Â ] because
she was unfaithful spiritually to Yahweh
and so that's really what the picture is
that's going on I think in Revelation
analyzer about it so if you read my
novel you'll start reading it's like you
know she I don't make her she doesn't
she's not a literal harlot and she's not
a seductress physically she's actually a
good wife to Ahab it starts out she's
you know listen if you're gonna if
you're a tell story and have a good
villain you've got to have a certain
amount of sympathy or empathy for that
villain and realize that no villain sees
themselves as a villain they see
themselves as the hero of their story
right so if you're gonna be fair you
don't make them into this like I might
even Wicked Witch and I went to Kitty
people and just born this way I was born
this way no so my so here's the stuff I
have a Jezebel she's actually a princess
of a very rich trade merchants nation on
on the coast they were trading with all
the nations so they were rich they very
cosmopolitan like a New Yorker La Table
thing right so her understanding is
she's going to become queen of this
backwards backwoods you know iron age
tribe right and so she's thinks oh I
need to bring progress I need to be a
progressive I need to bring you know
they need to learn about the glories of
bail on the power bill cuz they're there
they're only worshiping one God they're
not getting the best out of this world
see so from her perspective she's
bringing good but of course ultimately
that good involves evil and it involves
child sacrifice but even the child
sacrifice I explained this in my novel
and in in my companion book that comes
with it child sacrifice
was they really believed that the gods
would listen to them and when they had a
national trauma like it when there was a
war or if there was a famine they they
would they would end up sacrificing the
children and usually of nobility
actually not poor people you would
assume Oh get rid of poor people because
they're not you know the people who are
rich in power they always you know
sacrifice the poor people well actually
in many cases they they sacrifice the
children of noble people as an as an
appeasement to the gods it was their
nose it was their responsibility to take
care of the poor people right so they'd
sacrifice their children in order to
appease the gods and stop the famine or
stop the war see so I bring all that
into the novel as well so that's what
they genuinely believe that of course it
doesn't make it less evil but I'm just
saying it makes it at least consistent
within their paradigm and you have to be
fair to that right so um so Jesu
I have Jezebel she's she's she's in love
with Ahab you know I I don't have this
Wicked Witch of the West type of thing
you know and of course over time things
do degenerate but I wanted it to be I
wanted to show that you know she's not a
seductress in that sense she's a
seductress spiritually and a hub ends up
compromising and that's why Elijah
becomes the the obi-wan Kenobi he's not
the hero of the story though that's what
I want to bring out he's the obi-wan
Kenobi he's the he's the mentor who who
preaches God's Word but the hero of the
story is actually Jay who because if you
read the story in the Bible you'll find
that Jay who was the commander of the
armies of Ahab so he's a military
warrior and it's Jay who that oh yes
Elisha has a couple of confrontations
with Jezebel in with the miracles and
stuff but ultimately the story is about
Jay who because Jay who is the man who
ends up getting prophesied and he's the
one who kills Jezebel and he's the one
who becomes the new king to end the the
wicked rule of Ahab
and his sons and J who sends stops
destroys the bail temple and stops bail
worship in Israel so you know maybe
that's a spoiler but chances are if
you've read the Bible story you know
this you know no but my point is you can
see this is why Jay who is so I tell the
story of here's a man imagine being a
man who's the head of the armies of King
Ahab you believe in Yahweh but you also
believe that the king is God's anointed
one right just like David right when
David was attacked by Saul what did he
kill some no he said no I won't touch
the Lord's anointed
well imagine Jacobs in the same position
and a hab is compromising and going down
this hill into self-destruction for the
land and so how does Jay who balance his
respect for authority his respect for a
government right but also his his honor
to truth and to Yahweh and they it
becomes very conflict and and I think
again this is a very very relevant to
today's world as well so Jezebel is is
that picture there's something else that
people are going to notice when they
read the novel you'll start reading and
you'll notice her name is Isabel Isabel
of Tyre women I thought it was Jezebel
what's going on here right and I bring
out the fact that actually the name
Jezebel in the Bible is actually a
what's called a polemical insult in
other words they're their name calling
her because we found the archaeology has
found the name Isabel and it basically
is this this calling out to Bale where
is the prince that's what the name means
right and if you remember I mentioned
earlier she's connected to Bale and
remember that's what they they cry out
when they're looking for the harvest
where is the prince right so her name
was literally that calling out and so
what the Bible writers transformed it
and Jezebel basically means there is no
Prince but dung literally excrement on
the ground and of course there's a
passage in second Kings it says second
Kings 9 it says the court when you know
I think it's Elijah's prophesying
against Jezebel and he says now
corpse of Jezebel shall be as Goong on
the face of the field of Jezreel so that
no one can say this is Jezebel so when
they were calling her Jezebel they were
like saying you you know there is no
Prince but the Prince of dung and that's
what you are you know and so it's kind
of interesting so in my story her name's
Isabel and it's not until Elijah starts
calling her Jezebel and she finds out
and she gets really ticked off at him
right so that's another little of one of
these little things we may not capture
we may not catch unless we sort of do
some of the research yeah
Adam here in chat says that uh he says
Jezebel is translated as not exalted is
that kind of the same thing yeah but but
here's the thing um so there's there's
and now's the time or I'll mention if
you buy the book Jezebel there's a you
can sign up and get a free companion
book called the spiritual world of
Jezebel and Elijah and in that book I
lay out all the biblical and historical
research that the novel was based on I
tend to do this because I think a lot of
Christians like to have things explained
and they like to hear the theological
explanations behind things even though
they enjoy the stories as well and in
there I explained that there's a Jewish
scholar Jacob Milgrom talks about how
there's if you look at the the
transformation of the word eyes a bull
which is her actual name you know that
you know Isabel is an anglicized version
of eyes a bull right and he shows how
you you if you parse it out it basically
means there is no prints or unexhausted
but also the Sybil is transformed into
what what means feces or excrement so
it's sort of like a double play on words
that's going on there got time for a
phone call
sure let's uh jump to this call here
let's see caller you're live with true
seeker and Brian Gaddafi who we speaking
with I don't hear him I I don't either
hello are you there alright I guess
they're not there unless there's
something going on it might be something
going on with the phone lines here it's
sorry type out the question can't hear
you I'm sorry something something's
going on with the phone lines one thing
we just would talk about an outfit like
we've talked about it before but it's I
think we should know that a man is just
like you saying what you do with the
book is kind of like you're telling the
villains story and and this is it's
becoming popular now I mean Joker you
know just movie Joker's a blockbuster
hit what is it um
Maleficent that story of the background
of what happened this beautiful Queen
aim of Thrones peaky blinders all the TV
series now are all you know Empire
they're all about basically thugs yeah
and in in the thing is like you know
they they have a way of telling a story
that makes you hate the person and then
they tell the story but then you love
them you start rooting for and you're
like hold on
I just forgot about all of this stuff
that this person did and act like it
didn't happen but when you remember it I
hold on you're really rooting for that
guy
I mean Walking Dead does it with all of
their villains negan the governor
Breaking Bad does it there's so many
movies and yeah it's a new thing that's
that's you know it's a change in
storytelling a little bit and I think
it's I think it works it's yeah it works
I looked I think there's a danger to it
because what you're what you're
indicating is when you if you're
watching a story and you start to
realize that you're rooting for
criminals to get away with the crime
just because they're not as bad as the
bad guys who are trying to kill them
then that's a moral I think that that's
a moral danger you're changing your
moral compass and I think that it's
becoming sort of nihilistic and so I
think there's a danger with these
programs I've seen I've seen some of
them myself and I don't like I don't
like them but I also acknowledge
sometimes if they're great storytelling
they draw you in with the story so
absolutely I think it's something to be
aware of and something to to
you'd be careful with however the the
most ancient form of that is action of
the anti-hero is called the tragedy and
you know and of course we're familiar
with this from Shakespeare right and the
notion of tragedies are when the hero is
the villain from his perspective one of
my favorite all-time movies is Amadeus
and that's a case where Sally area is
the villain but he's actually than one
telling the story but it's a tragedy
what's a tragedy so a tragedy is where
the hero has a a major flaw and most
heroic stories the hero overcomes the
flaw so in my story Jay who is
struggling with the flaw of truck you
know obeying God and obeying the king
and Jezebel is struggling with do I
bring in sophistication and other gods
or do I repent and convert to to Judaism
so but the the difference is in in in in
a classical sense if the hero overcomes
the flaw becomes a better person that's
called a comedy or an up ending but if
the hero does not overcome the flaw and
he lets the flaw take him over then it
leads to destruction and a tragedy is
technically a moral tale warning you
don't be like this you don't want to be
like this why because look at where it
leads and and I'll gladly admit that
there's a lot of these TV shows and
movies that are tragedies for instance I
would argue Breaking Bad was a good
tragedy because it had a very strong
moral construct that what he was doing
was wrong now we do get to like Walter
White but in the end he his his choices
and his pathway led to self-destruction
and you don't want to end up there so I
would argue that's more of a tragedy but
there are other cases where like you
know maybe peaky blinders or Game of
Thrones where it's not so much that it's
really just people vying for power and
and they're all wicked and the one who's
the most powerful wins
if you have a story where it's saying
but basically saying look it all just
comes down to power
that's called nihilism and that's
basically you have two choices in this
world you either believe in nihilism
which is just power is God or you
believe in Christianity and I think you
know because I think all the other
religions all philosophies can read be
reduced down to power but Christianity
is like the Creator God and so that's
kind of how I see the world but but so
you see my point is that that there's a
danger and there's a subtle lying
difference between tragedy know and
antihero that's good worship yeah it's
just a way in the way it ends right it's
all in the ending what about have you
seen have you seen the the irishman not
yet oh man is that one of those movies
yeah oh yeah for sure for sure kind of
like the movie blow you seen blow yeah
as years ago but yeah again nothing in
well time yeah if it ends in
self-destruction then that that could be
a strong tragic moral message but if in
the process it makes a hero out of these
people then and and you can you root for
them and you're sad when they die rather
than saying oh yeah this is right they
deserved it you know I mean or you have
to watch them to walk in bed know you
know I gave up at Season seven when when
exit when they ended the the first negan
story I know that he went on after that
but when he sort of had that Christ
imagery by the tree with what's his name
Rick Rick had that sort of Christ scene
which is kind of cool actually after
that and then I started watching the
next season and I just it was just dumb
to me so what would you recommend that
it gets better I think so man I think so
I mean what the first time I seen you
know I'm saying Jeffrey Dean Morgan on
on screen as negan I was like you can
kill everybody on this show and he can
carry it by itself like he can do you
know absolutely he's doing it now he's
doing it now really like he's reformed
he's been locked doors and they're
starting to bring him back out and now
he's a everyone thinks he's still that
the same old you know you don't see it
because they remember what he did but
he's really had the transformation and
trying to trust them and it's a really
awesome story yes it's interesting to me
actually so now that's a different
that's different because if he's if he's
transformed and he becomes a new
character but he's got that baggage
that's haunting and that's fine too yeah
absolutely
but then again it kind of goes back if
we're looking at someone like negan or a
lot of these other villains we've only
kind of been following that story The
Walking Dead and many other stories from
the perspective of our people that
started out like if we would have been
following negan in his story and them
trying to survive and doing what they
can like you know they because it kind
of it kind of did that of like blurring
the lines of who is good and who is bad
the only reason we think that he
goodness the bad guy cuz Rick is
probably even killed more people and
done a lot more worse stuff but we kind
of sympathize with him because we know
it's backstory yes no that's a very good
point and and by the way that's why I
loved but I loved walking dead and one
of the reasons why I loved it was and in
the early seasons they brought in a
positive Christian spirituality and it
wasn't perfect but you know there I
remember the old guy the old father he
was the voice of conscience and he was a
biblical Christian and he would quote
the Bible and it's like wow that's
pretty cool you know and then they had
that the black guy you know don't tell
me what happened because I Mason you may
have convinced me to start watching this
series because I did like the negan guy
so um as a villain he was a good villain
and to hear that he might change that
sounds interesting me but but you know
they had the black guy who was a fake
Christian and I'm okay with that because
there were there are fakes you know I'm
Tom I've been restored yeah the piano
you know it wasn't Howard and he
betrayed them but then near the end of
one of those seasons he rose up and
became heroic and I'm like that's that's
cool you know so I loved what Walking
Dead does with the character arcs of
those stories and what you're getting at
is is character arc you know and that's
why if you oh and so so when you have a
hero like Rick one of the one of the
storylines that they started to develop
it which I thought was good was he's the
classical hero he's protecting everyone
but then one by one season is there
they're killing so much that he starts
to kill with with more of a I don't know
what you'd call it a vengeance or you
know he becomes more killing
than saving and he starts to realize
this and starts to go you know what am
maybe he's becoming like them you know
that kind of thing and I think that's a
total fair
moral quandary to explore on in a hero
and sometimes heroes do the wrong thing
so that's true too you know I'm saying
yeah so the question is but do they
elevate the evil guys as being okay
that's the question you know and I don't
think the Walking Dead did that at least
for most of the seasons I watched they
had good villains and a good villain
makes you you love to hate him you know
so yeah let's talk about this right
quick to the the whole when they say to
be successful in like starting off a
franchise or being a good writer that
you have to create a universe right you
got to have characters you got to have
villains you got to have all these
things we look at Marvel the Marvel
Universe is created there's backstories
there's so much characters even new
characters that are being introduced and
things like that The Simpsons like
anything there's there's there's a whole
universe of unique characters and and
there's music that the Insane Clown
Posse they have all of these characters
and villains and spirits and stuff that
they've created and people are just
immersed and you you want to know about
it all you know I want to know all of
the stories but it seems like you're
tapping into a universe that already
exists and you're able to kind of tell
some of these stories from a different
angle and you have all of these
characters that you can kind of pick and
choose from to kind of tell their story
and say oh here he is and this is kind
of pointing to that and that kind of
thing but with the universe have you
done any study on on that whole aspect
yeah no absolutely no Keane and all that
stuff I mean yeah ya know that that's
why I think my series are successful and
the interesting thing is is if you look
at though that the continuity is kind of
the bad guys because it's the bad guys
who are eternal tech now for lack of a
better word they're they're immortal
right so they're the ones that exist
from the beginning of the end
you know the watchers are in all my
series and all the gods and and
sometimes they change identities and
they move back and forth just like a
walking dead or something but you know
BHEL BHEL shows up in several of my
novels including
David try uh David I can't remember what
this full time is I should know that
David ascendant David ascendant my novel
bail shows up in there I think and so um
you know the good but here's the other
thing so the the the connective tissue
of the universe is the spiritual realm
and the spiritual realm is is these
demonic watchers plan I also have the
Archangels and they are characters that
are in all the novels including Jezebel
and the main principle is the Archangels
are like I mentioned earlier Michael is
is biblically speaking Michael is the
Prince of Israel he's the protector of
Israel and so I show him in that in that
capacity in the Jezebel story but I also
have Gabriel and Raphael there's their
the Bible mentions I think three
Archangels if I'm unknown sorry only two
Gabriel and Michael and then you can get
the other names of other Archangels from
the Book of Enoch okay again it's not
Scripture but you know whatever it may
be it's true maybe it isn't but I tend
to I tend to draw from that so I have
Raphael and Gabriel and Uriel and so
these four Archangels are basically
watching over the remnant and who are
the remnant in the Bible there's a
theological thread called the remnant
and what it is is this is that the
nation of Israel was watched over by
Michael and their God allotted to Yahweh
but she kept falling away kept flying
away and God kept judging her for it
every time you do it and you're gonna
punish you even to the point where they
worship these gods so extensively that
God sent them into exile destroyed the
temple destroy the land and put them
into Babylon right for you know hundreds
of years and and so that's part of it's
so important to God that that they not
do this that he punishes them that way
and then of course what happens is they
keep a pasta siding so that he says you
know what one day I'm gonna send Messiah
he's gonna judge he's gonna judge and
but in the Old Testament whenever he
judged he always had a remnant of true
believers what that meant was the whole
nation was gone straight but there's
always a few thousand that still worship
Yahweh alone and in my story I talk
about this because you know there's a
famous pastor says Elijah says ìiíll oh
man left everyone's worshiping bell and
then he gets told no actually there are
7,000 who didn't father need a bail you
know who are those people so I bring
those people out in my story Jezebel
they're called the remnant and the
angels are watching over them while the
other people are being judged to some
degree by these other gods that makes
sense
that's Archangel that's funny you bring
that up that whole the whole seven
thousand thing cuz there's a lot of
people who feel that way they're the
only ones who are following God they're
the only ones who are you know keeping
the scriptures or whatever's a hold on
you crazy yeah you know we then is a lot
more but go ahead no you're right that's
a that I think that's a that is a
perfect lesson it's like sometimes you
think you're the only one well don't be
so arrogant there's always someone you
know I mean and that's another principle
that go throughout my whole stories as
though that remnant and how don't worry
don't worry things may be looking bad
cuz things get really bad and in Jezebel
let me tell you I I'd say it's rated
pg-13 the book but I we've got human
sacrifice we've got war and battles
we've got beheadings and you know every
kind of atrocity you can imagine and
sexual sin going on we've got sacred
prostitution now I don't go into our
rated details but I definitely deal with
the sins and show what how bad this
world may have looked like and what's
going on in the spiritual at the same
time but through it all God is in
control and he has a purpose and what's
that purpose to bring about Messiah and
the whole all my my universe the
Chronicles universe is what I would call
it it's about what I call the war of the
seed what's the war of the seed back in
the garden when God Chris the serpent he
said you know I'm going to put MVP
enmity between your seed in the seed of
Eve she shall crush your head you
sheíll crushes his heel or bite his heel
it's actually the same word crush which
is kind of interesting but nonetheless
so this notion of the the woman crushing
the head of the serpent is a messianic
concept that began in the garden and
projects all the way to Jesus Christ and
that's what's going on throughout all
these stories is that battle between the
people of God and the people of Satan or
whatever you want to call it zette in
with prayer does that in with preterism
or is that Samoan because well that's a
good question tonight that's really good
cuz you're like hey here's the ending
it's it's written it is finished now
it's ending spiritually speaking in the
sense that think about this if the Old
Testament includes the law the Torah to
Israel and all this stuff looking
forward to Messiah but that same Old
Testament covenant included what I
talked about in the very very beginning
which was what the allotment of the
nations to the Watchers when the new
covenant comes when the sigh brings a
new covenant
well what all the Old Covenant is gone
and over with and if you go back to that
Psalm 82 that we were talking about this
might be a good time to do so because I
think it's kind of fascinating Psalm 82
again we're back to those gods and God's
gonna judge them when's he gonna judge
them at the very last verse it says
arise O God judge the earth earth you
shall inherit all the nations now I
realize that some Christians believe
that has to do with the future that
hasn't happened yet but I argue in the
chronicles the apocalypse then it
actually has happened because arise is
the word anest a in Greek in the Greek
Old Covenant Old Testament it's the word
that's used of a resurrection in the New
Testament and the New Testament always
draws from the Old Testament when it
talks about rise it always hints that
that's the resurrection so what it's
saying is when the side comes he's going
to arise his resurrection through the
resurrection he will take back he will
disinherit the nations from the gods so
when Jesus died for our sins rose from
the dead and ascended into heaven and
then judged Israel and brought in the
New Covenant that complex
of events he disinherited the nation's
from the watchers he the Apostle Paul
says he may drag the spectacle the Roman
triumph he dragged them the Watchers
through the streets in in triumph that's
what that word triumph is a reference to
the Roman triumph where the superior the
victorious generals dragged the losing
generals and and his leaders through the
streets of the city to say and and then
they killed them basically that's what
that's what happens so Paul says that
that's what happened when Jesus died
rose from the dead and ascended and then
Jesus so you understand this picture in
the Old Testament all the Gentile
nations are under these authority of
these these Watchers and and there's
only one holy people of God Israel now
when Messiah comes all those watches are
disinherited they're taken down and
destroyed and now people from every
tribe in every nation must currently
come to Messiah without having to come
to the Old Covenant - to Julian chiju
Diaz and they come directly to Messiah
and that's the whole point of the new
covenant is the New Covenant is the
disinheriting of the nations of the
Watchers Messiah Jesus now owns the
allotment to their territories does that
make sense how are you yeah it's really
it's really good the New Testament
that's why I believe the New Testament
is the judgment some Christians a lot of
Christians believe no no that's all in
the future but I believe that happened
in the past and that's why the gospel
can now bring people that's why Satan
cannot hold the nations deceived any
more they can come to the gospel but
before they couldn't they were all in
bondage to these other Watchers yeah but
now that doesn't mean there's no more
evil and there's no demonic spirits you
know of course I I believe that there's
still demonic activity and all this but
that's at a low level at the high level
of the authorities there they're gone
they're wiped out now it's just sort of
like you know the terrorist cells
without leaders you know that's what the
demons are right that's how I pictured I
understand entirely sure I mean I like
that I like that you paint the overview
you know just letting people know that
you know in Genesis we have the
the seed of the woman versus the seed of
the serpent and that's gone out
throughout the entirety of the Bible and
then the end of that was done when
Christ you know he said it's finished
and it's like the end of it in
Revelations just like an overview of
everything that happened let me give you
an overview this war against this woman
and this dragon again these two women
you know these two seeds that are that
are fighting and the whole time and it
comes to a head through Christ and we
are at the Bride of Christ and
revelation talks about the woman and the
dragon and the whole harlot and all that
kind of stuff so it's kind of giving you
the overview of these two women fighting
and who wins and no one know who now who
wins but who won you know yeah exactly
in the spiritual realm it's and and of
course it doesn't mean that we we still
have wars and nations and little great
heinous evil many Christians tell me so
so what you're indicating is The
Chronicle's apocalypse if you want to go
to the end read read my series
chronicles the apocalypse because it
tells that story but if you want to go
through the whole thing you know that's
fine too but whatever but many
Christians will tell me well Weymouth so
if you're saying that happened then then
how can you explain all the great evil
that's going on Islam and world wars or
whatever words and stuff it's like how
can you explain all this evil at which I
say you need to you need to explain this
evil as demons or Watchers it's like no
humanity is evil we deserve hell
you can't blame shift our evil it's
something else sure in the past and sure
there are demons that may influence
people to some degree or haunt you or
whatever but but like no humanity itself
is evil
we don't need Watchers to engage in mass
murder and genocide we do that on our
own okay
and so you know it almost degrades it
almost makes our evil less if you're
saying like all this stuff is from
demons or all this stuff is from
Watchers you know so that's my argument
about okay now tying in you know we
talking about all these gods and a
demanded worship and they demanded child
sacrifice and they were honored with
blood and things like that and it would
send harvest and stuff like that so the
in the conspiracy realm there would be
people to say that that
there's people are still trying to do
that these people who remember the old
way and they remember the old covenant
that they had with these old gods and
people who were in high seats of power
now different governments different
nations of the earth that's still works
yes
the dragons and stuff like that that
they're still creating Wars or creating
catastrophes so that people die and
these man-made catastrophes and wars are
ways that these nations are honoring the
old gods so that they would remain
blessed by offering blood you know the
Mayans would do it yes and you know
ancient but like it's still being
carried out today well how would you
respond to that well I believe look I'm
not a conspiracy theorist type psyched I
tend to not trust conspiracy theories
but the problem is is that conspiracy
theories ruin it for real conspiracies
and there are real conspiracies so but
the way I understand that is this is
that I do believe there are people doing
a lot of that stuff you know worshipping
the old gods and all that kind of stuff
and pagan religion and and trying to
take over the world and all that kind of
stuff I believe there's a lot of that
going on and I'm you know to what extent
they are actually controlling things I
don't know but but I do believe there
are people who are seeking to yeah to
return nostalgia speaking return to the
pagan world of power and the old gods
absolutely does that mean they exist I
don't think they need to again what that
tells me is if you want to believe that
there are real gods behind that real
demons behind that fine but I you don't
need them because all it says is man is
so evil that even after the Watchers
have been defeated man continues on is
evil and the gospel is going forth and
the got you know the gospel doesn't
change the world overnight it takes you
know centuries or millennia who knows
how long but the point is is that man is
still evil and man still go ahead long
for the the past the when oh when we
were under the Watchers so of course
he's gonna go back to those old
religions and try to recreate them and
try to do them absolutely absolutely but
it doesn't mean that they're real or
those beings are anymore there it just
means man is so evil that he will
continue to worship what isn't there any
longer you know that kind of thing
that's how I see it yeah but I look I
have colleagues that whose I'm on their
shows their podcasts who disagree who
think oh no and they make arguments that
you know for example there is a God
there is a one of these demonic Watchers
behind Islam honestly I would have to
say that with a little I like that idea
and I it's a great narrative and a great
story it's tempting to believe it but
here's my point
I keep getting back to this it's like do
we follow the best do we follow the
thing that's most entertaining to us or
do we follow what is the truth and if
you have to realize this this is really
important if you believe there are
territorial powers over nations you are
saying that Messiah has not inherited
the nations and that they are still in
bondage to the old covenant you're
saying the old covenant is still in
effect and the new covenant is not here
Messiah has not won the victory that's
what you're saying because because the
Watchers were part of the old covenant
and it's the old covenant that's been
abolished and the new covenant is here
so so to me the power of the gospel and
the new covenant is far outshine that
narrative far outshines the other
tempting entertaining narratives of
their being Watchers behind nations
today that's how I would yes for that
there's there's a and I'm not the one to
really break this out and explain it but
there's this essence of like the like
whatever a nation is doing the type of
that it creates operational frequency
over that nation like and I feel like
you can cross a border sometimes and
feel it like you has something different
about this place you know something's
different about this state and so Eric
dullard he's a physicist but he talks
about like like they have these uh it
almost
like entities that were like over
Nations because of the sound the
frequency of the vibration that you know
the smog of the city that rises the
coloration the plants and all of this
kind of stuff that almost looks like
something that's even over the people
not from a principality controlling them
yes their vibration and what they're
doing creates a essence if you will
that's over that state not being
controlled from from above but their
vibrational like Cree almost like
creating an entity or something that's a
this is this is one of my more
interesting interviews that I've had
because I appreciate your your unique
stuff that you're bringing up it's
fascinating stuff look I I believe
there's some reality to that what that
really is and what it really looks like
I'm not sure but I like your saying or
the way I like to put it it the the
concrete example that that I that I
always look to is the mob you know like
if you look at look at what's been going
on in America and how there's this mob
spirit mentality and it starts to grow
and grow and people get bolder and
bolder and then when people are in a
group when they group together they Ted
they're something transcendent occurs
that they act in ways that they wouldn't
act alone right and so we've got all
these riots that have been going on with
Anti Fog and stuff that that these these
um and they're so driven by hatred and
violence but they the law obviously you
know they know they don't want to break
the law and go to jail at first but the
more they congregate the more that the
fever pitch rises to the point where
they start they cover themselves up with
masks so they can't be so it'll be
anonymous and then they start engaging
violence and they're in the violence is
increasing so I think that that's an
example what you're saying where the
more people are of one mind in their
evil which is kinda Minds you babble
right them yeah that's the power of
human I'd Cesar hold on yes people doing
I got a yes I got a send an angel down I
have to send a principality and it's
still going and then deal with them
because they talked about our sins being
and and and our prayers and our arms all
of that everything that we do is like an
incense or an aroma yeah that's it's for
the nostrils of God he's I hold on what
is he it has real spiritual
ramifications
of course like I said even though I
believe that the Watchers were were
defeated at the cross that doesn't that
spiritual world still exists and there's
there's still rogue demons and they're
still like we're saying humanity is
essentially spiritual and that hasn't
changed and there's a spirituality about
humanity when we unite and evil or good
I mean you know when good people unite
there's also a victorious thing that
happens that transcends us so I agree
that there is something to that
absolutely and but you know I would
argue it doesn't have to be a watcher
but it certainly is transcendent
spiritual evil yeah yeah that yeah you
don't have to call it a watcher or
principality yeah and some people might
say well see Brian it's yeah well then
you're just saying the same thing but
calling it by a different term I don't
know all I know is I want to be
biblically faithful to the fact that
Jesus had victory over the Watchers
because that's what I know the Bible
says that and I know he says he had
victory over the powers and he defeated
them and that that is why people can
come to the gospel of Jesus Christ
I tell people the gospel knowing that
they're bound in sin I tell them I would
I would hardly have hope if it weren't
for the fact that Christ won that
victory because otherwise they'd still
be in bondage to deception and so I
preached the gospel and God the Holy
Spirit uses that gospel of good news of
Christ to change them because Jesus rose
from the dead it had victory and
ascended to heaven you know defeated him
yeah man it's good stuff um so we're
talking about movies and stuff you know
and in all these television shows you're
looking to have this script turn into a
movie as well right ah yes indeed
actually the origin of Jezebel was I was
hired to write the script years ago
we've been working on it for years it's
an independent production so and they're
still trying to raise money and you know
sometimes it takes a long time to get a
movie made I don't know where it is at I
don't necessarily the producers don't
tell me much until something happens but
I got the rights to write the novel and
that's what I did this year and
hopefully maybe it'll draw some
attention and maybe they'll be more
interested in
I don't know but I will say this though
that I don't have I bring in the
spiritual dimension more in the novel
it's not it's not so much in the movie
in the movie it's more like Braveheart
or you know like a traditional movie and
I have hints at the spiritual world
because look you've only got two hours
and if you're gonna tell the Bible story
and then you're gonna if I added that's
the spiritual dimension it would just be
it would be a it would be a TV series
which by the way I prefer it to be a TV
series with maybe the novel will inspire
that maybe they'll go hey you know what
we have here maybe we have a TV series
so if we have a long enough universe you
know disrupting storylines absolutely it
totally could work man this interview
man you know it's always a pleasure to
talk to you we connect on so many issues
and things and I like the way you can
look at seeing God's hand and everything
in these movies in the scription
allegory and all of that stuff it's
beautiful and I'm on works that way too
brother
go ahead and give the best link man if
people want to purchase the book and
check out more about what you do what
you bring to the table what's the best
place for them to check that stuff out
at yeah all my books are in eBook
paperback and audiobook exclusively at
Amazon you can find out everything you
can't want there you know great book
descriptions all this stuff but if you
wouldn't go into more depth and detail
and really explore this stuff my website
koat.com
I have all my book series there I have
free articles free scholarly articles
artwork all kinds of cool stuff I'm at
it will is worth your while to check out
the website and see what I got going
there but if you only just look into it
into buying it the novel Jezebel or
anything else
everything's exclusively at Amazon and
it's a number one bestseller I oh yeah
that's right biblical fiction number one
bestseller Jezebel absolutely since
they're this it's their number one spot
yeah baby I love it and then don't
forget the companion book the spiritual
world of Jezebel and Elijah which will
help fill out that theological
background too good stuff man well hey I
enjoyed a brother let me know what you
want to do it again we'll make it happen
and when you start a podcast needs you
to have me on I I will I promise you sir
i brother have a good one man thank you
bye-bye all right later
Brian cadaver ladies and gentlemen a
good brother man he's a man the universe
and he's consistency and putting all
that stuff out and he's got he's got a
plethora of work a plethora of books and
and and all of this stuff that he's been
bringing to the table for a while and
always a pleasure to talk to him and
kind of like I say this is one of the
better interviews that he's done I like
to uh you know I don't want to be
traditional you know a lot of times when
you interview people you have a an
outline of questions that they want you
to ask them it's just talking points you
know about the book maybe I didn't read
the whole book or whatever but I know
the outlines and they give it to you
some people send you like they'll tell
you I only want you to ask these
questions I don't really want to
interview those people you know I get
published as to email me only ask the
miss don't deviate they want me to send
them a sheet of questions I'm gonna ask
them so we don't you know go off of
track whatever but now I want to have a
genuine conversation with these people
Branka Dawa man a great mind and uh you
know very artistic and very much into
the story the myth the lessons the
legends and the allegory which if you're
not into that then you're not really
into the scriptures you're missing a
whole bunch so a lot of good stuff and I
end up so make sure your support is
working good good brother I will say
that I'm intrigued and what I kind of
learned out of this was uh painting the
picture of you know going back and
looking at some of the Psalm 82 stuff
and the gods or whatever like looking at
these people because like I said there's
a lot of people who believe that the
gods of Psalm 82 and the gods of the
Bible were these people who are
patriarchs even who were to lord over or
watch over Israel now if they I guess if
they were there was maybe a belief that
they were you know connected to the
Stars or their essence was someone else
like from heaven but that God gave them
the law and they brought it and they
were to keep it and uphold it and in
just in my mind's working just to be
honest it's really interesting to think
about that there's people who believe
that they're regular people though like
these were regular people who they were
called gods and it was just a title like
a lord or so and they were just regular
people
but it's almost like if you was to
believe that narrative that they were
regular that they weren't regular people
that they were immortals that we're here
to watch over the people and when they
sinned
that's when Yahweh cut them off okay you
were your gods we gave you these special
abilities we gave you the universe and
ruling and authority power over the
nations but you started getting taken
worship for yourself and and and
performing wickedness and all of these
kind of things that are noted of in a
lot of other books whether there's a
spirit behind these people but it says
today you'll die like men and we look
back at how long these people were
leaving living I don't know what really
and this is a student of the word and
just I entertaining some of these ideas
the interesting thing for me is to want
to know how long did the average person
live because I know we look at we read
the scriptures and we read about someone
who lives for 500 years 400 years 300
years there's 900 years there's a you
know talk about the air was different
there was less sin the earth was new so
there's a different density and in the
atmosphere so it allowed people not to
age as quickly as we age and there's a
lot of different theories but I wonder
if these in innocence is a theory I
wonder if they were immortal I wonder if
no way if Moses and all these people
were you know I'm saying immortal and
the regular people were the regular
people were they just bound to 100 years
like did they you know I know it's we
talk about after the flood like that's
it that's a thing too because it says
that you will be limited to what is it a
hundred years 130 years I can't remember
right off but after the flood you know
that people would be limited to that and
then but then we see people going past
that again the regular humans or the
other other people outside of Israel if
anybody has any information about when
when they died like regular you know
pagan people or I don't think the Bible
goes into a lot of detail but I'm sure
it's in there somewhere maybe we could
do a word search just under the word
looking up the word years and
Bible search book and to tell you how
many years that they died so let's see
let me just look that up while we here
so I got a sword pulling up for you guys
who are listening I'm just gonna look
this up while we're here just to see and
I'm going to type in years with a an s
so instead of like the year of king
so-and-so but years so many okay for
signs and seasons and days and for years
Adam lived a hundred and thirty just
what Adam lived Seth
eight hundred years see that this I'm
telling you want to study your Bible man
you got to get this Strong's Concordance
and you just type in any word and you
got the Greek in Hebrew and and all of
that stuff let's see lived a hundred and
five years we'll see who they were Enoch
three hundred and sixty-five years now
what about these I don't know how like
if it's going to go into the pagans
thirty years
two and thirty sighs 230 this is uh ray
you Eber live 430 years
Saleh 30 years begat Eber so like you
have to do the genealogy like tracing
these people back just to see like I'd
like again I like these people being of
Israel of this of the seed of the of the
woman versus the seed of the serpent
right
how long was what were the Serpent's
living it almost seems like they had to
commit in justices and fornications and
like and perform these rituals to
continue to live through Christ we have
everlasting life right and that's what
he promises that he that you will come
into ever everlasting life those who
trust in Him who follow righteousness
you will inherit everlasting life but so
there's this understanding of
annihilation that when you die if you're
not in Christ then you don't exist
anymore when you die so forth like the
opposite we live forever spiritually now
there's a whole other realm of people
who were trying to live forever
you know now as a whole movement of
people who were just in this belief
system that they're not gonna die that
they've transcended death and if they're
walking in the newness of God so they're
not gonna age anymore and I don't want
to rain on the parade I do think that's
a form of escapism I do think that were
promised to at least this flesh anyway
to to return back to the mother mother
earth and in our spirits to go and be
with the father and in eternity and what
that looks like but for those who are
trying to find physical immortality like
they're doing it like they're like as
far as the making covenants impacts with
with demonic entities and whether we
won't call them principalities or demons
or Devils or the old gods the pagan gods
they're making blood covenants and
offering sacrifices of children and all
this of kind of like we were talking
about what people and nations believe
were still
I'm saying happening it's still
happening today people believe that for
immortality I mean you got so much weird
occult like stuff that they're doing to
try to escape death why for for one what
happens when you die well there's this
opponent for once for a man to die and
then after that it's the judgment
they're trying to escape the judgment
because they have taught wickedness
they've done so much wickedness they're
scared to face God so they're trying to
trying to live forever whether it's
through technology whether it's through
again taking the blood of young children
and put it in in their blood so they
feel more youthful and and uh you know
vitality and all other stuff and they're
trying to preserve themselves they're
trying to escape judgment and live
forever but true everlasting life is
found through Christ and found through
the gospel so choose life that you might
live choose Christ man repent of your
sins don't do wickedness like there's
deaths and decay that comes with that
but with the goodness of God with the
mercy of Christ comes everlasting life
that he defeated death there's no more
fear and death anymore because Christ
defeated it and it's beautiful that
that's what Brian's bring it to the
table through these stories and through
the allegory is still bringing the
victory it still points to Christ like
everything in the Old Testament points
to the Messiah everything like each book
Jesus is in the book like there's
there's metaphors there's people who
represent him there's Melchizedek who
was you know all of these kind of people
that would show up throughout the
Scriptures whether you want to say it's
the angel of the Lord but there's so
much allegory and and and then pointing
back to Jesus just as they were to just
good statement just like there were two
women as Browns talking about the seed
of the woman and the seed as a serpent
that fought throughout the whole whole
scripture they're fighting and the
revelations is an overview of this woman
that this entity that was a snake in the
beginning it was a snake in a garden
throughout the years now at the end of
the book and revelations and the snake
becomes a dragon that the seed of the
woman has to fight in which is seated
woman is us I believe it's the Bride of
Christ and and that victory is done
through Christ but you have the two
women but now you have the two men who
are the two men is Adam in the second
Adam with which when Adam comes to the
scene the fall of man happens that
through Adam sin enters into the earth
and in that because of that sin going
back to what I said decay and wickedness
and all of that that's the things that
to repent really means to have a change
of heart a change of mind turn from the
things that are killing you turn from
the things that are bringing decay in
your life you don't like the Christian
Bible or without even terminology
listen it's applicable turn from the
things that are hurting you
you know addictions you know traumas
hurts like fine to healing man turn from
that stuff and change the way that you
think change the way you look at it but
through Adam sin entered the earth and
things started to die things started to
wither away but through Christ is called
the second Adam so Christ comes into the
scene to reverse the curse everything
that Adam jacked up everything that Adam
messed up Christ came to restore and
bring back that peace upon the earth so
that's what it's found in Christ the
newness of life that we can walk in in
the spirit and and we have forgiveness
of our sins that we don't have to pay
for the wrong we don't have to pay for
everything that we've done that Christ
already paid for it his blood covers a
multitude of sins
the scripture says cursed is anything
that hang us upon the tree when Christ
took went to the tree who Christ carried
the cross and went today he became a
curse for us he who knew no sin the most
righteous person who ever lived
never sinned he who knew no sin became
sin so that we can be called the
righteousness of God and that's what he
did that's the beauty of it and you
could take that to the bank
believe it put your faith in it try it
your minds trying to rationalize other
things try it try it taste and see that
the Lord is good
ask him to reveal himself to you I
guarantee you he will it's a beautiful
song and dance
and all of these things are part of it
again I go into a lot of detail about
this in my new book spirit realm angels
demons spirits and a sovereignty of God
this whole song and dance but my book as
well ends with Jesus the book points to
Jesus has all of this song and dance of
these demons and spirits and entities
but at the end the Great Spirit the one
who has authority over all of these
principalities and powers and the ones
who defeated death in the grave and so
check it out if you haven't checked out
my book as well so with that I must say
peace and Shalom really enjoyed this
interview I love speaking to Branka Dawa
I don't have a lot of people on the
podcast as a returning guest there's
only been a couple over the years but I
Brian this is his third time and I
really enjoyed it and so I want to have
some more people people on here we're
booked out to shoot going into February
at this point so we're booked out like
two months going into three so really
interesting got some good guests lined
up for you guys if you'd like to become
a guest so you want to advertise on the
podcast we have advertising
opportunities available now go to truth
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our insert into our entire catalog of
episodes which at this point right now
when you're listening to this on
December the 19th we have like right
under 270 and if you're listening in to
this a few years from now we're probably
gonna have a lot more so check out what
we got check out the back episodes and
this like I said this is the third
episode that I did with Brian and
they've all been good they've all been
good I always get scared because I know
I would like to repeat myself and like
but it never happens though like we
still have a good conversation because
when I interview somebody like I've
already got these questions I want to
ask him like that I want to know not
that he sent me but hey I want to know
about this man let me ask you about this
I want to get your take on it and so I
always ask him that so like in the first
interview most of the times I'm like I
don't got nothing else to ask you so I
guess after that it can just kind of
turn
into some more dialogue and coming up
with things on the spot and a lot of
times through like genuine conversation
they'll say one thing that would trigger
a question he'll say this I'm like oh
that ties in to this so that ties in it
do you see a connection or no and I
think that's what we did today as well
but um I love his books love what he's
doing make sure y'all check his stuff
out so I'm gonna jump up here let's see
thanks everybody hanging out in the chat
man everybody hanging out on Facebook
YouTube twitch periscope wherever you're
watching man thank you guys for for
hanging out shout out to everybody
flying penguins been reading your
comments may have some good stuff Kristi
Johnson battle lest shout out to you
everybody else hanging out Tina
everybody Adam star seed self Nam Baba
let's see who else we got teal Empress a
bunch of people Adam star seed Bay
everybody listening love you guys man
we'll do it again
make it happen peace peace have a book
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