Who Are The Rosicrucians? Merchants of Light | Betty J Kovacs | TruthSeekah Podcast

Who Are The Rosicrucians? Merchants of Light | Betty J Kovacs | TruthSeekah Podcast
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKtL86CcFtQ
Transcript source: YouTube captions

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today's discussion ladies and gentlemen
welcome
my guest today my friend betty kovach
betty
welcome to the true secret podcast my
friend how are you
i'm fine and thank you i'm really happy
to be here
uh excited to have you um someone posted
in
in a group the other day asking about
the rosicrucians and
the first thing i saw was a bunch of
like disinfo
you know scary stuff stay away stay away
this kind of stuff so i was like let me
get refreshed up let me do my homework
because i know
these comments i'm reading aren't true
so
started watching some youtube videos and
ran across your work ran across an
interview that you did and
was really well put together and you're
very knowledgeable about
that order and that subject so i wanted
to pick your brain about that and then
we'll get into some other stuff that
that you bring to the table that's
amazing as well so it's going to be
really exciting episode for those who
don't
know who you are they're new to your
work as well just kind of give a brief
overview
who you are what you bring to the table
will start there
oh okay well i taught uh college for
many years
and so i was working with young people
during the 60s
which is time really kind of similar to
this one with a kind of awakening
to a mystical tradition and
just we of course studied mythology
symbolic language
and that is the spiritual traditions
really of of other people
and uh near the end of that uh my son
was killed in an automobile accident
my mother had been killed in a car
accident one year before and then
uh two years after that my husband was
also killed
in a car accident so in all the years
that i talked about death and looked at
other people's understanding of it this
really was a
deep opening to the mystical tradition
in my own experience and and the other
uh dimensions of reality
so i wrote my first book the miracle of
death there's nothing but life
out of that and since i had taught these
ancient traditions
then i retired and i started doing a lot
of research
16 years actually of research before i
finally wrote the merchants of light
well i was writing it during that time
too
and with their the consciousness that is
changing the world
and so this is what i've been focused on
for most of my life
is there has to be more than
what our culture tells us that very
limited western world view that
there's nothing but matter and there's
no meaning
and no purpose and when you're dead
you're dead we're all just a fluke an
accident that's probably the most
destructive world view anyone could
ever come up with or ever did come up
with so i would just
sum it up by saying my life has been a
truth seeker
beyond you know what i was given
yes yes yeah and it's a it's a task it's
a it's a beautiful journey
that the truth seeking um calling
and to to study the spirit world
how it works how it operates this life
and and the next and and where the two
meet which is a beautiful
song and dance i believe in a beautiful
discussion and so
many people have touched on that and
we'll we'll uh explore that a little bit
more too the concerns and worries and
the fear
of death and those kind of things and
we'll touch on that a little bit later
uh let's start off with the rosicrucians
again this order and i can just throw
you some comments out there of what
people were saying that they were
um satanists they were
devil worshipers you hear all of these
strange even though there's a lot of
biblical iconography i've even heard
that
their symbol symbols symbolism even
maybe come from uh
mystical traditions of christianity and
there's a lot of
fear with with an order that which what
i've studied have
seen seem to be so beautiful and so pure
in its in its endeavors and intentions
can you talk a little bit about who the
rosicrucians are and what they aren't
yes and that's startling to me that
that people would say things like that
but
so much is said without a real history
of reality
i think and and that perhaps out of fear
too
there is a modern uh rosicrucianism
which
i don't know that much about although i
did have a former
student i had a student who was in that
and it's very deeply spiritual and
mystical and gnostic
uh but i'll go back to the historical
rosicrucians and
uh which emerged around 1600
and they were scientists and mystics
visionaries and scholars
and they really have their roots deep
in that tradition that
scientist mystical uh tradition
in western culture stemming really uh
from from the cave cultures
and and the depths of the sand people in
africa
and then the continuation with old
european culture and egyptian culture
and the first temple mystical uh
shamanic tradition of judea's
ism and judaism and on so
they here they emerge around 1600
well when they do emerge it's just
out of the italian renaissance and the
high middle ages renaissance so they are
deeply connected to the deepest
spiritual
and scientific and mystical traditions
in the west
what do you what do you think um well
let's see
what what religious affiliation
if if any coming from a scientific
expression but we know that those
kind of were were coupled or married
together early on
before the church really you know
said that you know everything was
spiritual and you couldn't look into
these other
other other realms which were were more
physical i would say
which is coming back you know i want to
get into that as well but
what were these were these christian
mystics were these
uh jewish mystics were these pagans who
were a part of this order
what type of people were were led and
drawn to a fraternity like that
i think that you've said it all that
our deepest spiritual traditions
at the core are the same when you when
you go to the depth of one
true authentic tradition which is the
mystical
inner gnostic tradition you will find
the same
universe of course you'll find that we
are all born
into out of this universal mind or
cosmic consciousness
so they were in the 1600s so of course
christianity
was dominant in europe at that time
but when we look at the underground
traditions and they were only
underground
because the church forced them
underground they could not exist on the
surface
so there were the for instance the
egyptian
mysteries of death and rebirth and
hermeticism
and then there were uh the jude first
temple tradition that were mystics
and then there were later the alchemist
and gnostics this one
all of these people who had had their
own deep inner experience
knew precisely that at the heart
of every religion was that same loving
creative
heart consciousness but so we'd have to
say
the rosicrucians were christians and
they
really uh but they also had
say they really came into being in oh
prague which was
uh under rudolph he was a catholic but
he allowed all of these underground
traditions
that had been suppressed by the church
they
he allowed that activity in prague which
was the old bohemia
so here we have all of these uh
hermeticism
various forms of gnosticism judaism
linked to the first temple tradition all
of these traditions
and that's the beauty of it you know the
individual
traditions they were able to meet and
prague
and actually share and learn from each
other uh so
but basically the culture was christian
and they really wanted to support
protestantism
because the protestants allowed
a little bit more freedom rudolph was an
exception although he was catholic he
was interested in it all and allowed it
all
they knew when rudolph died though they
were going to have to have some kind of
power
to keep that freedom simply so all of
them could work together
and as i said they were also scientists
not only mystics
and they were engineers they were
mathematicians in fact
they developed a mathematical approach
to nature
which later western science inherited
nature seemed to be big to the to the
rosicrucians and definitely for the
early
people and and i want to say that a lot
of things that you're saying i feel like
there's a renaissance of this
there's a renaissance science of let
come together
let us reason let us bring the beautiful
things of our faith
let us bring the beautiful things that
have that have served us and work for us
and and cling to them and they're in
it's from many different
traditions and we're able to see these
these ley lines that kind of
uh correlate and cross throughout the
religions and
those are the beautiful things the love
the we are all
one and some of these timeless truths
that are echoed
throughout every religion which is
something that that
i'm i'm celebrating right now that a lot
of people are are stepping into
but when it when it comes to nature i
want to ask you about the symbol
because the symbol for the rosicrucians
at least the main one that we see is
some type of cross
and a rose in the middle and i've heard
different things about
the cross that has something to do with
with with mankind
and then the the the rose of the flower
would be
divinity others would say that the rose
stood for the rose of sharon which is a
analogy for jesus in the old testament
what are your thoughts on the symbol
for the rosicrucians yes actually
i think within the rosicrucians it was
very clear
that the cross of course is bringing
together
all forms of opposites and it would be
nature
and man kind humankind coming together
but the rose at the center is what
unites and brings all opposites together
and that rose is of the heart and heart
consciousness
and the frequency of heart love in the
universe
that love is what always brings us
together
and celebrates our differences
but sees the creativity of it and how
it all blends into one whole unity
the wholeness so the rose is heart
consciousness
love loving heart consciousness that
brings
all opposites together it's really a
beautiful symbol oh yeah
great and uh you know just like i
mentioned this
renaissance that i'm seeing and many
many mystical traditions and
there's a branch of christian mystics
that are that are getting bigger and
bigger and bigger where they're holding
on to the beaut
the beautiful sides of the christian
tradition but they've they're kicking a
lot of stuff out the door
they're kicking hell out the door
they're kicking the vision they're
kicking that this is the only way it's
so much stuff and it's it's amazing this
renaissance
of christian mysticism where it opens up
doors for people like me to come in and
bring in different
things that i believe were a part of the
christian faith from the beginning a
trance state i want to talk about that
but are you seeing this renaissance as
well is this something where you're
getting more
opportunities to speak and people from
different walks of life and background
are
coming together to share these
experiences yes
and you make me so happy to hear you say
that because in the book
i talk about how these ancient
traditions shaman mystic traditions
were suppressed and repressed or
sometimes just the substitutes of
history
uh wiped them out for a while but
basically it was the roman church that
suppressed them
but in the book i say that these
underground traditions
survived and but they emerged
in five different renaissance periods
one was the high middle ages the second
the italian renaissance the third the
rosicrucian
renaissance that we're talking about and
the fourth was
the german and english romantic uh
writers they really did pick
up this uh rosicrucian tradition as
pietism and so on and then
today as i say in the book the fifth
wave is today
and people like you that's why i said in
the 60s
that was beginning of the awakening and
then it was kind of pushed down
and uh it appeared to die out but it
didn't
uh in fact i'm so delighted that all of
this
knowledge about our ancient shaman
mystic past
different scholars actually brought that
up in the 20th century
we didn't really know that we had this
strong
deep spiritual shaman mystic tradition
until the last century so yes i see this
time right now and we certainly need it
because we're facing the darkness
that has emerged from all of the
suppression
of who we really are and i for instance
i'm so delighted
to be here with you because you are
clearly a part of that renaissance
and other people that i've talked with
other podcasters
i it's like the 60s again i mean those
students were so exciting you know
because we sort of discovered these
things together i was young at that time
and
the students were as interested as i was
and they were finding things i was
finding things
and it was a real renaissance all of
this from the
early stages of our human development in
the west
all of this is within us it's within
our beingness and it's rising to the
surface now
yes it can be an incredibly creative it
is
a creative time that's amazing i'm with
you and it's so beautiful
um let me ask you this so you mentioned
modern-day road secretions may not be
the same thing as the ancient early
orders which i don't know a tradition
that you know has stood the standard
the sands of the the the the test of
time
and it's still the same thing today we
got something very different
than it than it started out as and that
just kind of happens and it's formed
into an order or religion
and over time that happens but with this
awakening right people
are looking into you know they want to
join
the order of the royal secretions
they're looking for an ancient esoteric
order a mystery school if you will
because we read
you know the works of blabotsky or
manley p hall or people read my work and
they're like
i want to get into a group of people who
are studying who are actually doing this
stuff and fellowship and
so they go to the rosicrucians or they
hear about the masons and the masons are
the protectors of this
ancient knowledge and ancient wisdom and
and but
if you you go to just any masonic lodge
you you're probably not getting what
you're looking for you're going to get
into an order that's just you know they
have good good things but as far as
studying the mysteries
and that kind of thing um what do you
think any of that's preserved
uh in in the role secretions or the
masons or how do we move forward
in finding our tribe of people who are
like-minded and want to go deep who are
studied and have given their life
to the mysteries yes that's a very good
question
and but i would like to say
first and foremost that the ancient
tradition that is
um is so vital still
today uh is in mystic christianity
and now with uh the discovery
of the dead sea scrolls here were
mystics there who
uh when the first temple mystic
tradition was destroyed
and there was the exile and then the
second temple
these mystics did not go along with the
second temple
because they weren't carrying that
ancient tradition so they moved out to
the dead sea and they had a
library there much of which was found
after world war ii
and then christianity later had texts
that were also a christian
mystical text which had to be buried
they were buried in egypt because the
church made it very clear they would
destroy them
so in those texts we find a living jesus
and a mystical jesus and when we
look at these texts which we've now
found nagamadi texts were also found
right after the war
and we look at this with the all of the
apocrypha
and then the canon we begin to see a
much bigger picture
and what we do see is that early
christianity
was a shaman mystical tradition
and we are told that there is the hidden
tradition
which jesus taught a hidden tradition
now that was suppressed by the church
but obviously as you know it's continued
underground
and is growing so
i think that if one is is born into that
tradition
it would be good to know those things
you know jesus in the naga mahdi text
said
when you drink from my mouth you and i
are one
and if you bring forth what is within
you
it will heal you but if you do not bring
forth what is within you
it will destroy you and i think we see
or in the world today that there is so
much destruction that
is happening and it is a result of not
bringing forth what is within us
but the real question is where do we
find like-minded people that we can work
with
and i don't know that much about uh the
rosicrucians today
or the masons what i had that same
question
as a young person and i didn't know
where to go either
i didn't know where could i find someone
and i couldn't
and so i couldn't and i didn't
but uh i think that you know this
tradition says
that when you ask the question when you
want to know
then you have entered the labyrinth and
when you
enter the labyrinth you're on your path
and everything that happens to you
is a learning situation a growing
evolving situation
and you keep going around and around and
around sometimes that you think i'm
experiencing the same things what am i
doing repeating
but we're always learning on a different
level until we do get to the center
and at the center a wonderful classical
scholar carl cadeny said
when we get to the center we confront
the divine
the cosmic mind not his other
but his self now i think that once we
ask that question
the old saying when the student is ready
the master will appear
it might be that the master will appear
within
and not in the outer world i think it
will be each
person will find that place
that works for that person and i think
that
in you know it's interesting i was so
excited to hear that you knew manley
paul
i mean uh manly hall when i i before i
even came to los angeles i had read
about him
in all places henry miller who talked so
much about him
and i used to go to his his lectures on
sunday morning it's absolutely amazing
man
and he had brought all of this together
you know and it's just his photographic
mind
uh and so you know i i found as we all
as you have
found these places uh that we
that helps us nourishes us uh
and of course for me that i went
actually to peru twice
uh with uh to study with shamans
and i i did learn
things but i've discovered when i was
there
that i no longer could have that outer
guide
i i remember on the island of the sun we
went to this little tiny cave and we
were like
an individual only could be in it it's
like a curled up like a fetus
and i told myself you have had guides
and i'm grateful to all of them but now
i ask for the guide within me
i have to have that but i think it's
different for everybody
you know but we will find it we will
find it each of us do find it
it's like once you find it then um
you're able to identify the teacher and
other people
right there's there's there's a there's
a similarity and i think that's the
mystic path again these different
traditions who are able to come together
and salute
because that that light in me honors the
light in you that i can see it
and we are similar in our endeavors we
are similar in our pursuits
and our love and even though the names
in in
in symbology and allegory may change the
the uh uh pursuit behind it is the same
and i think you know which is near and
dear to my heart mystical christianity
um this is what's being taught you know
in the book of james
it talks about that uh that you don't
need
any man to teach you but the holy spirit
which is the spirit of truth will lead
you and guide you into all truth
and that then now was that to say that
we're not to learn from people no
but we are we recognize when the creator
is speaking through other individuals
and and
uh has illuminated them and we can honor
that and see that
that's a relative uh uh vitoria
experience for a lot of people
um because we're told that god is only
here
or god is only there but then we read
these texts that god is within you and
outside of you and the kingdom is all
around you you just haven't been able to
see it
and that's a pretty mind-blowing
experience for a lot of people when they
come to
no matter what faith that they're a part
of well this is precisely the secret
teaching
of all the mysteries is that
we don't need to look outside ourselves
i think it's wonderful when we do see
each other
and we we can intensify that flame
within ourselves when we meet
that's so important but what has been
lost in the western tradition
is that precisely that the master is
within you
and that the christ is within you and
that's what the jesus of the nagamati
text or the hidden tradition
was also saying go within and yes he
developed and others have always
developed different
techniques and ways to try to ignite
that knowing
but this is what was left out the church
did not allow that
a one who went within the gnostic was
considered a heretic
so the western tradition lost that most
precious
path to who we are
under the roman church and it still
lingers
that you know in shamanism there's no
doctrine
it's you go within and you learn from
yourself within your own soul your own
heart the master within you
the heart and center of the of the
labyrinth is also called
the master of light or the mistress of
light it's
all in us and that's the mystery that so
many of us have forgotten
and if we go in we will find the
connection without
you know we find each other that light
will guide us to each other
yeah you create neural pathways and
connections that you're able to start
seeing and i talk about the things that
are done in
i'm just echoing jesus the things that
are done in secret are made manifest
uh when you open your eyes right that
inner contemplation that shamanic
journey
that you you travel and you go away or
you hide away within your prayer chamber
as jesus talked about going to pray and
commune
with the spirit uh but then when you
open your eyes and you're out and about
you're seeing things
literally in a different light you're
able to perceive that and that's so
that's so beautiful and something that
that we all have access to
not just the priests jesus says that you
you are all now made priests
all of you you don't have to go to the
priest you are
a high priest now to really understand
what that means
that you are divine that you have access
that was limited or only for us or us
for no more
and so it's very empowering to
understand that
it is as i said it is the heart of the
mysteries
is that we have everything within us
to teach us everything we need to know
so so true so good we have a question
here uh from a super chat on youtube
from gavin mcdonald
and he wants to know what is the veritas
vortex from a rosicrucian perspective
if you're i'm not familiar with that i'm
not sure at the veritas
cortex it's uh or
vortex uh well it sounds like i'm not
really sure what he means
but if it means what is the central
the heart of what emerges then i think
that is what we've been talking about
that uh the very heart of
our beingness is the master we are
all divine and this is one thing
christianity rob
the roman church robbed us of is that
the masters of the past
all of these mystics and shamans wanted
us to know
three important things we are
divine everything in the universe is
divine
and we are immortal there is no death of
consciousness
consciousness creates the universe
and it is still present when the
material world is gone
and we are creative we need to great
claim our own power our own divine power
as creators but only out of the heart of
love
so any uh center of any
spiritual vortex would be that that's
good
that's it i'm with you that's the uh the
love that that fuels
our faith and our compassion for the the
mysteries and
now you can find people who are in this
and they got all the right words and
they say all the right things and it can
blow you away with some of this ancient
mystical knowledge but there's no love
in it
have you ran into that i see it all the
time um
but have you ran into that with
different teachers and scholars and
people who are
speaking from the head rather than the
heart
there should be a a connection there but
there are those people
well there's that's wonderful you say
that there should be a connection
because
our ancestors knew that the
unless we're connected to the heart we
can't really be creative
and we now know that all of the brain
components
are connected to the heart the heart is
a brain component
and what has happened tragically in
western culture
is that we could only develop the
rational mind
so we have that one brain component that
we've developed
it's severed from the symbolic mind
which actually feeds it it develops
first
in us and it feeds the rational brain
but we've severed ourselves from that
and we've also separated ourselves from
the heart so we have a very
uh disfigured worldview
and culture and so it's very easy for
people to
get carried away with just the rational
and even though they're talking about
the heart
they're severed from it and
and it yeah it can cause tremendous
harm and even when you think about it
that distorted development is what we
praise in the university
you know the intellectualism then we're
not looking for heart connection
this is what's really missing in our
education you know the ancient egyptian
mysteries
made it so clear that if we don't
develop
feeling culture cannot unfold
it's feeling we have we can't even
understand certain thoughts unless we
can
feel those thoughts that's so good
the comments that are coming through
people are saying this talk is so rich
they're really enjoying the information
that's coming through thank you so much
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this is a beautiful conversation and so
just
busting through any religious or
traditional lines to open up and make
room for the spirit that's what it's
about tearing down any walls
that was the ministry of jesus you know
embodied to go
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um on one of your lectures
about the merchants of light you
mentioned the name
that i just found out about one of my
students and one of my friends mentioned
somebody
who have has done a personal session
with this individual
and um convinced me to buy a book from
them uh which is a beautiful book i
thought i had it right here but somebody
by the name
of bradford keaney who you mentioned of
in your work that i'm enthralled he's
very close to me
i want to get over there and see him and
but
this heartbeat of the spirit and how it
moves and how we can kind of
tap into it through song and through
dance and
through chanting and again my heart go
to the
the church the tambourines and the
dancings and the spinning and how we're
working up that spirit what does brad
for kinney's work
mean to you and what was expressed to
you through his work
well first of all he knows so much about
the sand people
in south africa and i had read about the
sand
through someone else who had lived in
south africa
and he just paints a picture of them
that is so
joyful and full of wisdom
and the west of course did not know this
about the sand people
but uh you probably heard the story that
i uh that
he tells bradford keaney tells in his
book that
he was playing music and it was through
this music that
this universal consciousness opened up
in his heart
and it was so profound but he didn't
have anyone to talk with about
it either and he didn't know quite what
to do about it he went to the university
he got his degree i think he went to mit
and purdue
and while he was at university teaching
he was invited to south africa
and then two weeks i think about before
he left
he had a dream and it showed a map
exactly of where he was to go
and whom he was to meet so when he got
to south africa he got the team
and they they went and as he was and
they
the dream showed him the map exactly
where he was to go and as he was
crossing the desert
some of the sand people were running
toward him and they were saying
welcome home we have been waiting for
you
so bradford gave us all a gift and that
is a deep
insight into these amazing people
who they say been around 65 000
years maybe more uh anthropologists
archaeologists put them at about 33
000 they have all of this art throughout
south africa
the etchings and stone of their
spiritual journeys
so what was so important to me about
bradford keaney and his wife hillary's
book
is that deep insight into their ability
to trigger
they know how in meditation which is
done
different from the from india to go into
an experience cosmic consciousness
and the west was had no idea you know
because they couldn't perceive reality
to see who these sand people were but
they know how to live in a joyful happy
way
and when bradford told them you know in
india
people meditate they sit alone and
meditate
to go into that and they will oh no they
couldn't imagine being alone
because and dance and the music and
you know the little bells on their
ankles and but they know how to do this
and they do it communally
and they also can help others awaken to
that
and this sounds very strange something
that bradford talks about makes so much
sense is that
they actually could manipulate that
energy
into little arrows and then threw it at
someone
wow and and that kind of ignites it now
it can be painful
because that's a very powerful intense
energy but
it helps to awaken others and you know
there's the
tradition of chakra put in india that
the guru
hit you with a ostrich feather or
touches your third eye whatever
and someone said to me well that the
sand knew the ultimate shock to put
you know by throwing these arrows and i
think they might have known that in the
cave cultures too because you see people
that have arrows in them kind of
floating i don't know but it looks like
that probably existed there too
so bikinis really brought a knowledge
of this beautiful people who knew how to
experience who we
are and how to enjoy life and and see
the beauty in nature they really
followed the laws of nature which we
have not and if we don't follow the laws
of nature in our own nature
we destroy the world as we are trying to
do
and they knew that so i am very grateful
for their work and i'm so glad
that you bought it and that you heard it
and i i think that they've done some
incredible work
yeah we've watched some of his videos on
here of them
um over i believe was in parts of africa
but they went to a couple different
places and
it's amazing how there's this idea of
an aesthetic experience and um how it
could be transferred
or over the internet or watching a video
if that's your intention i was talking
about like watching these videos and
there's two things that that happen you
can either judge it and say oh that's
weird or you can watch it maybe for
information or
to criticize it but there's that's one
path you can take the other path
is i want that i want to go deeper into
that
and so to to experience it and literally
we we did a retreat um
just maybe three months ago and uh
his work was with some of the focal
points because one of my students had
learned under him and we're like we're
gonna do that we're gonna
we're going to cook is what he calls it
cooking the spirit
let it boil up yeah and so get in you
know it's the rocking the shaking the
praying and all of that kind of stuff
and
and see what happens and um one of the
things that sounds familiar of like a
marriage between that of an
order um of sorts that i really can't
vouch for everything that these
any of these people do really but the
shakers and quakers
right when you when you read about some
of their traditions there
there was this really ecstatic exuberant
dance
and praise and spinning and dancing and
they kind of build that spirit up
and that's still kept in many different
traditions today
but there's also the really solemn
prayer getting quiet getting by yourself
so it would it would marry
the two that dance and the exuberant
praise with a quiet more solemn
worship and uh when my personal
experience of of seeing that uh really
took it to
another level of coming from a
charismatic
christianity background is what i come
from but to know that the power
there's power that's worked up in that
right there's a lot of stuff
but that same power can be transferred
in the midst of
prayer meditation in in in being quiet
and it's amazing when you figure that
out yes well
and you know among white people
and protestants and catholics too
but there is that inability to move has
been that inability to move the body
because there's nothing we have rhythm
exactly
and i grew up in that dancing was
forbidden
in the culture when i grew up i think
happens my parents were not
solidified in that culture but the body
didn't move and to dance with music was
forbidden
anything my goodness what happened to
them
so i think that it's been several
cultural changes
that has helped the person to move and
i remember seeing in south africa the
the movement of the bodies
you know whatever it was the body was
moving
you know it seemed like every muscle was
moving
and when i was in peru and we were
mainly out in the country but when we
did go to a restaurant and there was a
peruvian
you know music and singing and i could
see
some of the people who were there as
tourist white people they couldn't move
their bodies
i mean they just they wanted to but they
didn't know how to do it so i think
i think that our protestant
and catholic culture has uh neglected
it's rejected the body
even the jesus of ancient tradition
they cannot accept his deep spiritual
physical relationship with mary
magdalena
because it somehow reduces his value
if he knew how to relate to the feminine
but you know the nagamadi text make it
very clear
he relates to all forms of the feminine
and it's
art which is the very epitome of
christ's
consciousness being born being coming
into being the higher self
we see we see this uh this marriage of
mary
and jesus so it's uh
i think that we're bringing back the
body is my point i think
to bring back the feminine is to bring
back nature
and soul and the body the beauty
of how spirit has manifested itself in
the human body
and how we can love each other through
the body
the children are born through the body
you know to honor that but i absolutely
agree with you
we can experience this uh silently
and we also can experience it in a new
way for most of western culture
uh through that boiling of the spirit as
the sans say until it boils
out of the top of your head and then you
are with the spirit world
in the spirit you know who you are yeah
that's awesome um talking about some of
these
different meditations and things that
that you've mentioned um and a lot of
people are doing
because you're talking about living from
the heart
right living from the heart up i've
heard it called the heart chakra up
um living from a place of love um are
there any any meditations or things that
you you
that that you believe in that we could
that we could do to help help us live
from the heart
that focus on the heart expanding the
the love frequency from the heart or
anything like that have you been taking
place or any
anything like that yeah i think the
frequency from the heart is very strong
the heart gives more frequencies to the
brain than the brain gives to the heart
but i'd like to mention heart math
people can go to that organization
heartmath.com they have done scientific
studies
on the power of heart consciousness and
they
encourage a meditation exercise
of imagining your breathing from the
heart
you take in the universe you take in the
heart
consciousness of the universe and see it
flowing into your heart
and flooding through the entire brain
all of the brain components
back into the heart and sometimes if you
just touch the heart
it helps you to keep the focus there but
allow
yourself to feel everything that comes
into your brain allow yourself what do
you feel like in your heart
and then just keep breathing through the
heart and then you can ask a question to
the heart
ask a question that you'd like answered
and it will come
it might not come right then but later
you'll that will be so clear to you
the answer to that question and so
that's a very simple
exercise but it does work because it's
focusing
on where the center of our consciousness
is which is the heart and if we allow
that energy flow through the heart
then it can flow through the reptilian
brain through all of the mammalian brain
and the prefrontal lobes back into the
heart
when a colon a culture wants to dominate
us
what they do is make us afraid make
everything very fearful
and then the energy in the brain goes
back to the reptilian brain
and we can't think clearly and it's not
flowing through the heart
so it's always we have to think when a
culture tries to make us think we're
involved in some
horrible situation that only they have
the solution for
we need to go to the heart and allow
that energy to flow
forward through the mammalian brains
prefrontal lobes
into the heart so just to keep that
focus that's a major
meditation and and i tried to do that
and to remember to let my brain do that
and then there is another which i think
was
uh an ancient probably an ancient
exercise
is that the megalithic cultures of which
egypt was one but you know all of those
megalithic monuments around the world
that actually knew the equinoxes the
solstices and so on
these were master builders and the
legend is that these people
they knew the cosmos and the earth
because they were initiates into the
mysteries of death and rebirth
and so they saw the human being as a
mediator
and so i think in a in a meditation if
we can see
ourselves as a mediator and allow the
energies of the earth
imagine that earth and those energies
flowing all the way through
us out of the uh the
crown chakra and going up to the net of
light
i talk about the net of light in my book
merchants of light
i had many mystical experiences with
that
as have others all over the world now
that there is and even science now knows
there's a net of light
and there are these centers all the way
around the earth and if we focus on the
center
that's just above us in the net of light
and feel that light
flowing down through cosmos through us
and into the earth
and then we find it meeting in the heart
this i think is a very powerful ancient
ritual which
most of them are simple but when i
really need to be grounded
and i want to connect with that light
energy from the cosmos in me in my heart
and allow it to also we what we're doing
is
honoring the earth energies that are so
powerful and creative
and the energies of the cosmos and when
they meet
in the heart that opens us
that's good um speaking of that right
these
this this higher energy that we're able
to access we're able to bring in
and through a lot of different means
just just by simply focusing on it which
is beautiful
i'm reminded of the early churches that
would have
steeples on top of them and i believe
these steeples were
like a an obelisk if you will that is to
channel and
bring in that heavenly precisely a
higher energy
to the congregation or to the people i
mean the ancient churches were built in
such a way where
sound music frequency and energy was all
throughout those
cathedrals with the music and the harps
and and the
uh organs and everything that they
played to facilitate a spiritual
experience
absolutely i mean every temple temple
wasn't just a building built somewhere
it everything in it was built to in
ignite spirit in the individual and
that's so beautiful that you mentioned
that
it's like the church these ancient
cathedrals
who were evidently built by these master
builders
that we don't know anything about is
that they're rooted deeply in the earth
and they're absorbing the earth energies
i mean it's sharp it's a
very powerful earth energy place
and the steeples yes it's it's the
exercise i was just talking about
it's the energies of the earth coming up
into the temple
bringing down through the spears this
cosmic
light net light energy into the heart of
the cathedral
which is into the heart of the
individual and everything in it vibrates
or is made to vibrate so that we
have an experience within ourselves
in that place yeah this beautiful that
you said it so well
it's wonderful that to know that yeah
it's
amazing and uh there's some beautiful
research and
and being a part of that and some other
people are are kind of capturing some of
it with um
alex alex gray's work and things like
that he just
built cosmetics and that and and
structuring this whole
and even in uh italy you have you have
diamond her
underground this like psychedelic
ancient underground temple that is
immaculate beautiful psychedelic
paintings of fairies and gnomes and
angels and other realms and
when you step into that you are stepping
into
a physical uh spiritual experience if
you will and
and everything's mirrored and that's
something that you talk about as well
like
us mirroring stuff or i'm big on you
know
symbolism and and uh a logo that's
something that you can look at
that would remind you of a spiritual
experience and and i've
i've been writing about this idea that
once we stay out of the spirit realm for
so long that we start getting in
uh infatuated with monuments and with
an outer representation of something
spiritual but those things can very much
be a portal
back to a remembrance of this spiritual
experience right some type of of statue
if you will
a monolith a painting a picture that we
look at and we're drawn
back into the presence of that that
person if you will can you talk a little
bit about
symbols and the power that they carry
well we have a symbolic brain you know
one of the brain components
is that uh area of the brain
that has its own language its first our
first
language is symbolic language and that
the the symbol connects us to spirit
and you know this was understood in the
1700s
by jean battista vico who is one of the
first theorists of language
and he said the our first language is
symbolic language
and it feeds into that's the right brain
and it feeds into the left brain and out
of this feeding in from the symbolic
brain we have
conceptual mind logic but he said you
know what we've done in the west of
course we've just developed the
conceptual
and we just pushed away that's
insignificant to symbolic
but he was saying we if the mind wants
to experience its own
wholeness there must be a an intrica
an integrative and uh dynamic
continuum of movement between the symbol
and the idea
the symbol and the idea and once when i
was teaching i had a dream
that i went to a foreign country whose
language i didn't know
but i was teaching them their first
language their native language
and of course i i knew that that was
symbolic language
and yes we can unders we have to
pay attention to our own symbolic mind
and allow ourself meditatively to know
what those symbols
are communicating to us within its
context
again we can't people outside saying oh
this particular object always means that
no it's dynamic and creative within us
and i would say that if we think of this
continuum of movement
we must include the heart you know that
this then flows through the heart
but it's the symbol opens us as you were
saying
you can contemplate something and it's
as though you're there and
the archaeologist maria gambutas who
discovered old europe
here was a completely different symbolic
system from the west
when the roman church came in it
abolished this
rich symbolic symbol of nature
and the cosmos and it had very few
symbols and if you didn't honor those
symbols you were
you were heretic and she told me that
when she would sometimes have one of
those artifacts perhaps
an image of the of the feminine
pregnant with life she said i could feel
that
in my hand but she said of course i
could never say that among the
archaeologists
so we we have to always protect
ourselves
because the academic world while it
comes up with some brilliant things
it's usually the last to accept reality
in its wholeness and so she struggled
and now they're
really i don't think they're even
teaching her in school but she was
the most famous bronze age
archaeologist and when she discovered
old europe it was a completely other
world
where soul and nature and the inner life
were honored and of course the
patriarchal world didn't know how to
accept that
but i think that uh focusing on these
images can awaken that energy and
frequency within ourselves
that's so so awesome um
we have a question here um from sassy
and frank uh sassy and frost wants to
know
have you studied the runes at all you
know
i i have i know of them i don't in any
way set myself up as knowing much
uh and their beautiful symbolic system
yes and i
i work with the runes uh sometimes i
i i think they're these symbolic systems
like
numbers and
and different different types of animal
symbology and runes
the runes are an ancient uh symbolic
system
born out of an of this natural
uh experience of them of life as a
mystery
so yes i think they're very valuable
awesome great thank you
um so you know we mentioned this kind of
divorce if you will between
uh science and spirituality um i feel
like there
is a reunion uh between the two
looking at the work of maybe joe
dispenza
looking at um there's a lot of people
who were kind of showing the brain and
heart coherence and
yes and even people like i have to say
the name kirby delano
these these people who are showing you
the science of spiritual
science of spirituality which as they
were at odds they seem to be
complementing one another as we're
tapping into the neuroscience
and teaching you how to you know how
these miracles work
within your own life of how your belief
works and how
faith if you speak something in in the
neuroscience behind it and there's so
much
more with the works of these individuals
um would you say that that there is even
a renaissance of that of the science and
spiritual coming back together
when there's a renaissance of spirit
there's always has to be a renaissance
of science
and when there's a renaissance of true
science
it's always connected to spirit the uh
rather tragic thing was that out of the
rosicrucian
work and movement when they really tried
to
get enough power to maintain openness
enough so they could continue their work
they were destroyed they were destroyed
by the church their
texts were destroyed and after that
there was a 30 years war between the
protestants and
catholics in in europe and when the
royal society for science emerged
later in 1660 these scientists
who had been a part of the rosicrucian
movement who had wanted to
to make clear to the world that if you
have a deep spiritual experience the
most natural thing in the world
is to understand it scientifically we
understand it spiritually
we need to understand it scientifically
they are the same
like ancient temples during the
megalithic period there were never
was an observatory or temple it was both
always
it was always merged but when the church
destroyed
these scientists and they they continued
to exist when the royal society opened
and they called themselves the invisible
college because what they wanted to do
is bring
enlightenment of a scientific
intellectual nature
and of a deep spiritual mystical nature
to the whole world
this the rosicrucian period was the root
the deep root of the true enlightenment
and
in the 1700s when what we call the
enlightenment came
it was totally severed from spirit and
the church made it clear
that those scientists in the royal
society
could not do anything with consciousness
or the inner world
so it's strange irony that it was the
church
that actually brought about the material
world view
that there's nothing but matter because
those scientists could study nothing but
matter
and later they forgot that they had
their roots were in
the mystical realm and so out of that
suppression by the church we developed a
scientific but very limited science
scientific view that there's nothing but
matter now
in the renaissance that you're talking
about science has come
full circle and in quantum physics
and many quantum physics are saying i
mean
that consciousness creates the universe
we don't need to fear death
consciousness existed before the
physical universe
we create it every day every moment
every thought
and the kogi i talk about those in
merchants of light too
still in existence trying so hard to
keep the balance in the high sierra
mountains
isolated from the conquest by europe
because they knew they couldn't survive
with them and they've tried to keep the
balance
but they have said our thought well
everything we think every moment
creates the scaffolding for matter
we are creating matter every moment so
everything we
think is what
it expresses itself in matter and they
say
that we are dumbing the world down that
they can hardly hold the balance anymore
so they have given up finally made
contact with us
to tell us you know we don't understand
all of the earth's systems and its
natural laws and so on so even they have
having been hidden for 500 years
they are now coming forward and they are
shamans of the
high high order of shamanism they have
in their culture so i think all of this
is awakening today
that and we have to awaken to the
darkness that we have create
allowed i don't want to stay created
constructed allowed to take place
because of all of this suppression in
europe you know we have
it's breeded an arrogance and a kind of
superiority
of rationality and everything else that
that that we touch
it's very very dangerous and now these
same people are talking about
um artificial intelligence and trance
humanism
when they don't know they have no idea
what the human being is capable of
but they have to go inward for that so i
think this you have put it so
beautifully it is a renaissance
and it is always the true renaissance is
always
fused the spirit and uh science
always views it's just a different way
of expressing the universe
and our place in it awesome that's so
beautifully said
thank you so much death is a an
interesting one you know it's a uh
i talk to a lot of people on here who
have the
the loss of a loved one and then
something happens whether they
uh talk to a medium and they find out
that their loved one is still
visiting them and still around them and
sending messages and
you hear a lot of different stuff but it
sparks this
um this journey or search for the for
the afterlife and what happens
when we cross over um i feel like
you you're mentioning all of these
ancient ancient traditions and
and um first peoples and all of the
orders that started from the beginning
and even what we have today and what
religion does it
it's i feel like a lot of it's mankind
trying to make sense
of of death what happens when we pass
and you have so many different uh things
that people say whether it's religious
or spiritual if you will
and and a lot of those those lines cross
in
and actually intersect and people have
had near-death experiences and
um come into grips with with death and
and we find different ways to do that
one of the biggest ways that that i i
think the majority of people maybe
americans
is just not to think about it right when
when other cultures
embraced it and remembered it but it's
like oh it's i'm gonna be like this
forever this is
me and so there's this this this uh you
know way of
of thinking that you're never gonna die
as far as
this incarnation in this body i mean
it's even
one of the things that that is getting
popular in the christian mystic circles
is actually from
the east through different branches of
hinduism with the light body and those
kind of things
is to transform your body into light so
that you can maintain this
physical vessel forever and there's this
notion of like i'm i'm never going to
die i'm going to be like this forever
i feel like a lot of a lot of that kind
of stuff gets into escapism
um what what has been your studies on on
death in at least that transition
from this form to another that maybe
that light that is within us that
uh breaks out of this cocoon if you will
and is able to go on to
a different experience well you know
that
is the very core of my life
is that when our son
was killed in a car accident
my husband who hadn't been interested so
much in this kind of thing
but he had had a vision of a of his
death before it happened
when i looked back i realized for two
years i had been dreaming but i looked
at it symbolically
of his death he himself at 12 had
a dream of his death of being in a
trauma
center and then crossing to the other
side
and then in the last year of his death
he actually was almost like a practice
run
of going out into the cosmos and coming
back out into the cosmos and coming back
and then finally realizing that physical
body was not his
and then he could go but we both my
husband
uh and i experienced his consciousness
it was about well it was the next day
after his memorial
uh that we began to experience his
presence in a deep and profound way
and it's interesting because the vision
that my husband had
two weeks before he was killed our son
was killed is that he saw pishti our son
uh car at the side of the uh freeway and
his body superimposed on it
and then he felt himself say oh that's
right pishti
it's almost time for you to do this and
that
so startled him but then pishti said to
him that's right dad
i'll be out of the house for a little
while well he didn't know what that
meant until
after his memorial we did experience him
he wanted us to know he's still alive
he's creating he was very much alive
and and he talked about he wanted us to
know that remember that
it wasn't like he was telling he said
remember that like we all know that
within us
that we are immortal but then he talked
about
this difficult period that the earth is
going through
it is a renaissance but it is also
giving us the ability to deal with the
darkness
that we have allowed to be in the world
and destroy so many people and so many
places
and so he said he wanted us to remember
that that's why we had been born you
know and i think many of us have been
born
in this period for that reason so i had
always feared
death before because my mother
both she her mother died young her both
parents had been orphans
and i feared that would happen and in
this experience with pishti
and actually opening to this cosmic
consciousness
i i knew once you experience it you know
you don't need to worry about death we
the body may die
but we are in
the source of our existence the cosmic
mind and we will create a new body if we
want to be reborn
and i think there's definite
reincarnation i mean
we experience that over and over again
so now what about
trying to maintain this body creating a
light body um
i know less about that but i would think
that if we
create if we create with
cosmic consciousness if we remember we
are all born
into this universal mind of who we are
that
uh i think that we can do all kinds of
things
there are stories of people who've lived
for generations and generations
discreetly
you know to do the work i think at one
time
my husband had the vision of sitting on
a hill with pishti and looking out over
the ocean where the sky touched it
there's no limit and pishti said to him
dad do you see that horizon
even that is not the limit and
and at that time i was still too much a
part of the left brain and i kept
thinking of every limit i could ima i
mean
the limit just come into my mind i don't
do that anymore
i know that whatever it is you're
talking about there is no
limit to what we can do we simply need
to be open to it
there's even that the limitless is not a
limit
yeah yep and um you know
the teacher said jesus says that you can
do
you know whatever you believe you can do
anything that you can believe for
that you can you can achieve it uh
nothing is impossible
and who's to say what what what your
nothing is and that's a big one we have
to kind of
keep room for that for us oh yeah all
things are possible except
exactly that was me and that i saw that
in myself
it was boom boom boom every limit
jumping up
i i have released myself from that and
that is such a freedom
but yes i think that we're even learning
in science
that it's not so much our genetics but
it's what we believe
can we actually allow that thought to
exist
and if so it's possible so i just think
we're learning so much about ourselves
you know it just
and but you know we have so many fears i
think
the fear of a different way of life uh
fear of someone looking different from
the way we look
a fear of someone thinking you know
these are these prejudices
are fear-based yes they're fear-based
if we can let go of those things i mean
how wonderful it is that we're all
creating in different ways
you know and we're i mean wouldn't
everybody look like one person
it would be so boring we couldn't sleep
and they couldn't live with it but i
think that is fear
of creativity prejudice is the absence
of creativity and the fear of it i think
yeah i welcome it i champion it i get to
see it
you know and there's so much beauty
there's power in it
um when different people with
differences
you know that are noted uh we put our
differences aside
to come together for a common good and
that's for
for that's to love that's to to learn
that's for
friendship camaraderie regardless of
religious tradition or spiritual
tradition we're seeing a lot more of
that again this this renaissance i
believe
um stepping into allowing people to
co-exist to live together
um even in the scriptures there's
there's there's references where it says
like
if it be possible live peaceably with
all men you know and these some of these
truths hold on we've ignored this these
teachings that have been there the whole
time
it says speak evil of no man
when you guys are speaking evil of
everybody who's not like you
right so some of these elementary
principles that we
we're learning to transcend and how
liberating it is
it is and i i think all my life i wanted
to meet
different people from me because i
wanted to know their differences i want
to know how did they think
and you know i went to work in europe
and i have to say i met my husband who
is
a refugee from hungary he'd been in the
revolution had come to united states and
been drafted into the american army so
he was in germany
and i met him but he was for me what i
needed to cure
me of my limitations i would say
it's like it just it was that feeling
that anything is possible
and uh and dance he would dance he could
dance all night and all day
but it was this kind of craziness to me
at that time
but it was that joy of life and love
and he didn't care what anybody thought
well sometimes i wish he had you know
i'd be with him but he was healing for
me
yeah and and i needed that coming from
this stiff
culture uh that didn't know how to sink
into life
and simply be and i have to give him
credit for helping me do that
that's so awesome and the dancing i
realized if you dance i didn't feel the
same way again you know
yeah yeah it's one of those things where
you know
i'm not the best dancer but when the
spirit moves you or you're dancing with
a purpose you know
uh there's a there's a scripture the
king david danced and his clothes came
off and he just began to dance
before the creator and he didn't care
you know he and he you know the things
that he would do um
you know but they definitely believed in
the dance and the movement and that's
coming and the ecstasy
yeah the ecstasy that i think that's
ecstatic and i think that we just as
jesus said in the naga muddy text
if we don't live this it will destroy us
yes and i think that what we realize is
that if we know how to allow the mind to
experience ecstasy
that is that aspect of its own beingness
if we don't allow that we're going to
have this kind of culture that's
prejudiced and violent
and addictive but if you experience the
ecstasy of all life
those things just fall away yeah i mean
it's like say what i mean
how could it matter you know yeah
because ecstasy heals us
yeah part of that i think is being able
to see the good in in the things
you know that that are different or or
even even if you feel like it's bad fi
train your mind to find the good in it
um because there's all of these things
that come up in in the first thing that
comes up is the negative again i
mentioned you know the road secretions
and
someone in a chat and all these people
are unloading and it seems strange to
you right
but i'm sure same about you know manly p
hall
somebody who's whose work is like really
near and dear to my heart
someone else who's been a little bit
more triggering for myself and for a lot
of people and probably rightfully so
madame blavatsky yeah you know maybe
manly p hall
you know people open up a little bit but
a lot of people the first thing they go
to is okay
manley p hall was a luciferian be
careful
really oh yeah that's a big thing
i've got these books on him i'm teaching
on the mystical christ and it's so
beautiful
and um in the same thing with blavatsky
you know they'll take a quote
on her reference of of of who satan is
the god of this world and things like
that and
people take these things out of context
and
demonize their entire um
you know catalog of works and they it
was said that blavatsky was
giving people writings that were over
six feet tall
of her works and you would demonize and
discount everything that she brought to
the table because
of something that you disagreed with or
it shocked you
when if you read those texts and con in
context
they tend to make a lot more sense than
we thought and that's just so weird
when we say okay yeah rosicrucians are
this
christians are this uh blavatsky was a
satanist stay away it was like hold on
this woman has some amazing
word questions we wouldn't know western
spirituality at
all if it wasn't for the work that she
did and how she brought the
a lot of eastern mysticism here to even
just open up
that conversation to honor her and manly
p
hall even and so there's a new respect
that i have for her
i've always had a family hall but
absolutely
it's an amazing conversation you know
that
whole business of evil and devil
and satan it
began with the roman church and
in order to uh suppress
anyone who would have a different kind
of experience
but jesus did not teach this business of
satan and the devil and the nagamati
texts
i mean it's like it's it's not really in
the world
we have the potential not to bring forth
what is within us and allow ourselves to
destroy the world
and we can certainly call that evil but
that's in our choice it's
it's it's not at all
like you know that there is a devil
somewhere and satan
now there are people who have a lot of
different notions about that but i think
the most important thing is
you know how do we heal ourselves how do
we heal the soul
and uh that would mean how do i
allow the that truly creative
loving energy in me to develop
then i don't have to worry about evil i
mean i do in the sense of how do i
protect myself from some of the things
but if we learn how to love and develop
and evolve
we will learn how to deal with the
negative that is in the world
and then once we can heal our soul we
think of our culture and then our planet
but i i just can't i can't understand
the talking about that they don't read
them they don't know
exactly 100 they've only read those
those uh quotes that they've that
someone shared in a meme or
a quote or somebody who's trying so
dangerous demonizer put them down
um there's a big thing as well like in
in the christian movement
to talk about the kundalini and the
eastern tradition and they're
in even that's a warning stay away from
the kundalini
my research says what is happening in
these charismatic churches
and as as under the name of the holy
spirit and these ecstatic
encounters that they're experiencing in
the east
were happening thousands of years before
they came to
your small church and they are to me it
is the same thing
it brings about the same manifestation
there's crying
there's blissful there's transformation
there's spiritual awakening there is
uh letting go of your past mistakes and
sins and failures
you're being born again and these people
are experiencing the same things
yes and it's interesting that uh
so many christians don't really realize
that
in the heart of ancient judaism the
shaman mystic judaism
and in the traditions before for
instance in sumer
is that the serpent which
in in the let me just say the original
story of the tree of life
is that the serpent twined up the
tree that is the rising of the kundalini
energy
and the feminine is the tree life
consciousness that gives the fruit of
the tree to
anyone who is ready for it and in giving
that fruit
the serpent is allowed to rise
up to the crown chakra they knew that
now when the deuteronomist came in and
destroyed
the ancient shaman mystic judaic
tradition
they changed the story this is not the
true story that we get in deuteronomy
about you shall not eat of the fruit and
the serpent is evil and adam and eve
were evil and they said
this is all a making up
an inversion of the true story so that
it
is made evil so people today talk about
that no
the original story is yes they honored
the kundalini energy which was the
serpent
rising to the top of the tree and the
feminine
nature herself is saying eat
take of the fruit it was never forbidden
and if
you eat the fruit you know you are
immortal
you know you're divine and you begin to
co-create with the universe
this has been so distorted and that is
the birthplace
of all of this demonology and evil and
satan and every that everything that's
something they don't know about
you know it's going to be evil and it's
a shame because those same people could
experience
such a fuller faster life and that's why
it's so important to know what are our
true stories
our true stories are always born out of
the organizing principles of our own
soul
they're not made up like the
deuteronomist did with this
you should be punished business with the
tree that's a made-up story it's not a
true myth
yeah i wonder what what i'm thinking of
now is this almost like this
this in this uh inner versus outer
wisdom
you know that that even the notion of
you know where did it go wrong the idea
of a tree is something
outside of you that you have to grasp
for when all of that is already within
you
right and it seems like that's where we
do fall into pitfalls and this
intellectual
knowledge tree of knowledge versus the
tree of life
in the serpent obviously from the
beginning like
that's the only time it almost seems
like it's some type
something negative within you know the
serpent is a symbol of wisdom jesus says
as the serpent is study the serpent do
you see how
wise and cunning he is you need to be
like that but
be as harmless as a dove and then we
look at moses holding up the staff with
the serpent upon it and everybody who
gazed upon
that serpent on the staff was healed so
in iconography
the serpent was something beautiful was
something that was a symbol of
wisdom um even seeing that you know the
the
egyptian headdresses and the third eye
with the serpent
coming out this this one who was
awakened
to this ancient spiritual name exactly
they were awakened
and this when you were talking about
inner and outer our ancestors knew
that symbolic story symbolic language
was not about the outer they knew that
symbolism was our spiritual language
and even uh in the nagamati texts some
of the disciples speak of
symbolism as our first language and
symbolism
is the language of spirit spirit always
speaks in symbols so when they see a
story about the tree
it's not something outside them they
realize they are it is the psyche that
is
telling them this is what happens within
you you are the tree
of life we are rooted in the earth
reaching to the heavens
and the spiritual energy can rise up
like the serpent
and the fruit is our participating
in cosmic consciousness christ
consciousness
yes it's uh such a much more positive
true you would say life uh meaning
yeah i think so as well uh betty thank
you so much for coming on and hanging
out with me i've really enjoyed this and
the chat is lit up and everybody's
loving
this conversation thank you so much for
hanging out let people know
thank you where they can go to follow
your work to get your books people are
asking if you have a live stream i know
you you produce a lot of
videos and a lot of interviews and and
some of your
your lectures and things like that which
which are amazing that you have online
but
where can people go to find out more
about you and keep up with your work
they can go to the website which is
comlock.com
a k-a-m-l-a-k comlock.com there are
videos there
and then there are other interviews i've
done they can just go to youtube and put
in my name
and they will get several uh different
types of interviews
and the books can also be purchased the
merchants of light the consciousness
that's changing the world and
the miracle of death uh there's nothing
but life
they can also be purchased at comlock or
any place that sells books and ebooks
awesome betty thank you so much i i've
thoroughly enjoyed this conversation
right now we can keep going
anytime you want to come back on i'm
glad i was able to do it so soon too
thank you so much for i am so grateful
to you thank you so much
all right my friend enjoy your day many
blessings
you too and let me know if you do see
bad uh bradford teeny okay
oh i i i emailed them they're on a
sabbatical right now
to to i actually want to go interview
them in person because he's in new
orleans and i'm in
mobile and he's in new orleans now oh i
thought he was
in phoenix but he's in oh i would love
to see that so yes i do want
i want to know about that yeah i i have
i have an idea
to to do a documentary on and call it
spirit or energy and talk about
the energy from all traditions i want to
interview
him and and and shamans healers
christians uh hindus i want to talk to
everybody about
that that oneness that thing that i
refer to as the holy spirit or kundalini
it's the same thing and so i want to put
out a documentary and definitely want to
want to talk to him about it it'd be
beautiful to have him on um
oh yes so it would be and you know in
the ancient
hebrew tradition it was in the holy of
holies
where the priest went and joined in the
sacred marriage
with spirit so there was always that
that that you that energy yet that you
talk about
but i love that i love the idea of
really seeing it as energy and what are
these different energies
yeah well you were just doing amazing
work i'm so impressed with you
and i just wish you all of the best and
i want to keep in touch with
what you're doing so i will see that
documentary sure thing
thank you so much and i'm sure we'll
have this this uh conversation again
because
the chat seems to to to really love you
so thank you so much
thank you so much thank you betty bye
bye bye
betty kovach ladies and gentlemen listen
that was a good talk
thoroughly enjoyed it thoroughly enjoyed
it so good
um covered so much and such a beautiful
spirit such a
a wonderful conversation and again i'm
watching the chat here as we're talking
and
people are asking questions and and uh
conversating with one another chats
within the chat i love it i love it man
this is something that
that i'm excited to see because it's
something that we've had
uh really engaging chats in the in the
back uh
you know back uh probably a year and a
half two years ago or something where
the chat was lit up and
people were getting alerted for the
podcast and it was coming in ready to
talk and see one another and
over the years people come and go and
it's so awesome to see people in the
chat
uh so if you if you're watching this on
youtube facebook wherever you are go
ahead and
say hello if you have any questions let
me know there in the chat too i'd love
to
to answer them or give my take or
opinion on different things as well
while we got a few more minutes left
here on the podcast um
here is one from kimberly
who says um i'd like to hear from true
sega about the current groups of mystic
christians
who are as open as he is to truths that
can heal us
listen that is a great question um
and i will say um everyone's different
so don't think that
people would vouch or agree with
everyone's work
or at least all of it they have things
that may come up as a concern
but there are some people that i feel
confident
about saying their name and i really
enjoy that there's a there's a spirit
of camaraderie behind saying their names
and um
one of them's in chat with us now has
been commenting the whole time i got to
give a shout out to him
the flying penguins martin smith is a
christian mystic i would call a
christian mystic
who um is very inclusive and and very
much uh
moving in the area of love and
acceptance and
love what he's bringing to the table so
um
martin smith with the flying penguins
you can google that he's been on my
podcast
um once or twice and uh good friend
so let me just think of some of the
names that i can name
and i would you know i hate to do this
because i hate to leave someone off
right
but the people that come to mind we got
to talk about john crowder
um we got to mention his name daniel
oskapinsky a good friend of mine called
him a christian mystic
and i'm thinking of some of the lesser
known ones as well
um someone i that i had on here saint
anthony
uh who was on the i am track with me who
is uh
anthony um i can't think of his last
name i get uh
um it's spelled quinotis anthony
quinodis
um had him on here but he's a beautiful
brother love what he's doing
let's see dr o is a beautiful christian
mystic
um kirby delanero i mentioned him
um there's so many people let's see
uh christopher carter i got to say his
name
some would say ian clayton um
big big fans of his work let's see uh
gil hodges and adina with kingdom talks
what what they're doing
um there's so many people and
but but those are some of the ones who
really stand out to me
um there's a bunch and most people who
are affiliated with
us i would say so in and out of us you
learn about other people
different names like you heard about
bradford keaney today
um i would say he started out as a
minister in
in a christian but he doesn't really
hold to that tradition
these days and so what you have to do is
be able to
to identify that light or identify that
truth in other people
in other philosophies if you will to to
get another take
on maybe the things that you believe but
are practiced or
taught because they have been studied
from a different perspective
and that's a huge one so uh many of
these christian mystics again
there'll be things that maybe you would
vouch for other things that you wouldn't
but um but those people that i mentioned
for sure kirby delano
love what he's doing and um christopher
carter the imagination
um because there really is these
you know i've kind of um
uh immersed myself in in this this
circle with these people
and i've been you know invited back to a
lot of the christian conversation from
from these people as i would say
mystical christianity is on a rise
again now as we talk about this
renaissance and so
you know they reach out to people like
me which i i am a christian you know
my my foundation is in is in the cross
of christ and and that's
my my gate my door um you know so
to see them welcoming welcoming me to
their table has been beautiful
but i will say that there's still this
really really aggressive um
side of christianity that is still us
foreign no more that is looking for the
for the uh the differences and uh and
ready to call you out
on the things that they don't agree with
or believe with
believe in and um i have a lot of you
know friends who are still in in those
movements who are friends because we're
we're christians and and a lot of them
roll the dice with me because
of my different beliefs and things that
i that i uh
take a hard liberal stance on as far as
seeing god in everything versus only
seeing god in
in christianity if you will that's
definitely not the way to go
so um martin even says he says gil
hodges justin abraham mike parsons
as well uh karina pataki got to say her
name karina is amazing she's been one
who is um
been a good friend and there's a lot of
them and and it's becoming more and more
um what is this name that kind of talks
real slow somebody help me i want to say
his name
kind of talk slow i had him on the
podcast um
very much a thinker somebody say his
name you guys know who i'm talking about
christian mystic
um where's the glasses i know you know
who i'm talking about martin but there's
a lot of people
um so those are the christians there and
then you get um
then you get people who are outside of
christendom that are still like carrying
that torch of of light love and truth
and i have to be
be you know open to say that that i
think
what i would call christian in my mind
for my studies and my references have
nothing to do with just
toting a bible or using that that
language i would say that
uh those things or those people that are
of christ
are people who have chosen the past of
love which is the narrow
path which is the the teachings of jesus
and have accepted that and have made it
their their goal
to to to stand for truth and to stand
for love whatever that is and that is
christ
in all things and in all people um brian
orm
is who i'm thinking of another christian
mystic um michael basham
uh flying penguins is mentioning him so
these are other people who are
um are friends and um and and i do
believe in their work and what they're
doing so yeah to be able to see god in
everything and in everyone
you know and be able to see the good and
then there's those heresy hunters
as martin says here that that are that
have trained
their eye to find the things that they
don't agree with or the things that
may be negative or maybe a um
stumbling block or is deceptive you know
so there's there's definitely
those people who are still out there and
as i'm stepping and dancing in this
realm of christendom
i just started going back to church you
know and um
and so you know that's that's hard you
know what i'm saying with uh people know
who you are know what you believe and
but they still love you they still
accept you i'm not in there trying to
teach people i'm not trying to speak you
know what i'm saying i'm just
going with my family and uh or my wife
and
just having a beautiful experience and
and that's hard because
christians can can be the first
people to to kill their wounded and they
see you bleeding and they smell blood
and they see a in your arms like
throwing someone to
the piranhas and and it definitely can
be like that and that's a lot of
people's experience and and
that realm still exists you know i
haven't i haven't been
um i don't fellowship in those and
moving those circles too much
anymore i've stepped away from that for
a long time because because it used to
be me
and um but i've had my name mentioned in
some of those circles recently
and um and and yeah they're still out
there and they're still ready to
to to get you and uh you know but it's
part of it it's a rite of passage man
and and that's what knowing that those
people exist
make me love and honor and cherish the
people who are more
inclusive more loving who have chosen
love or say i know we disagree on a lot
listen there's only a little bit that we
agree on but let's double down
on the things that we agree on you know
me and betty we could
we could have went at it and had all of
these things we disagree on there's a
lot of stuff
but i don't care it's out the window we
don't have time for that
we have time on the things to to double
down on what is beautiful
what is lovely what is pure what is
righteous what is of good report
let's think on those things i'm
commanded
through the scriptures as a follower of
christ and one who honors the word
um to do that so um
i found much more peace in my life now
is that to turn a blind
eye to deception to uh people are trying
to weasel their way in with hidden
agendas and hidden motives or
with false doctrine no i think we should
definitely
uh approach that and we should speak on
these things but you have to do it with
grace
you have to be able to do those things
with grace and and you have to know
yourself
and um and and my challenge to those on
both sides
for myself and for the the one who has
made it their point to point out
heresies and the negative because you've
trained yourself
without even knowing it to be able to
see those things and everything the
first thing you see is
the negative you see the pitfall you see
the things that other people don't see
try to point out the opposite try to see
the good in something
or if it's someone like who you're just
accepting of everything listen let's see
there is dangerous stuff
here we got to talk about it it's not
saying that you just take everything
hook line and sinker and not use
discernment
you have to you have to use discernment
you have to know
those that that labor among you and so
um
you know pick your battles wisely you
know but going around demonizing and
calling people out calling them
um evil and and putting them down
it's always what i found steeped in
wanting to lift yourself up let's stay
away from him
so that you will come listen to my
pastor or listen to me and that's
usually the uh the spirit that's behind
it when people
i've been seeing like a lot of people
sneak we call sneak destin they'll do
live streams and i'll mention people's
they'll mention what people are doing
and they'll talk about that person
without saying their name
but everybody knows who they're thinking
of and they're saying hey i'm not
talking about you i never
never mentioned you man it's like come
on like you
you're watching my page you're watching
what i'm doing and you're talking about
it on your live stream and warning your
followers
to stay away from me it's not i'm not
talking about me but i have other
friends in the christian
realm in the christian movement that
that's happening to and uh
and i find it distasteful you know
there's no need to
to sneak this you know if you believe it
speak it call the name out you know if
there's a
time and a reason to do that i don't you
know
i don't there's people i don't like
there's people that i'm
that i think are a threat and and
although i may not go on a rampage and
really
um call them out or make it a campaign
or do videos on those things which you
guys would click
because it would be clickbait stay away
from so and so
seven things wrong with this guy you
know what i'm saying you guys
that people will eat that up but we have
chosen
this middle ground which is the narrow
path i can easily take a hard right or a
hard left
and we get more followers and you know
that that that
the the people who take a contrarian
stance they
you know it it plays to to the ego of of
what you need to you know of of clicks
and likes and
and a lot of times i've been listening
to some of these people and they're
they're dead wrong like their stuff
they're preaching
and they're saying is is super wrong
they're making stuff up
but they speak it with confidence
because they yell it
or they're they look presentable or
looked apart and then people just
believe it
and people can speak things with a sense
of of
you know raising their voice or yelling
and it
seems like they they know it or they're
convinced and they could be
making stuff up like i've been hearing
some weird stuff coming out of some of
these christian
um camps but anyway anybody has any
questions
let me know from myself uh i love you
know to open up and
um you know i get a lot of inbox and
stuff and i and trust me
like if you inbox me like it's hard for
me to dialogue i don't
write a whole bunch i would rather maybe
facetime you or call you or answer your
question on air
because a lot of times people have the
same questions
so if there's anything that they want to
know whether it's
you know people want to know especially
from the christian camp personal beliefs
because they all have
they all have a ledge like i'm with true
seeker until he said
kundalini now that lost me my pastor
told me the kundalini is this and
all of this kind of stuff so everyone
has that that place that they'll walk
with you
until but hey i'm an open book i don't
care um
and i and i'm not married to any of
these um
theories or or beliefs or ideas i'm
married to
christ and because of my faith and what
he's done for me and that's my story
and even that is too far for some people
why do you believe this primitive
stuff like i'm with you on the spiritual
stuff but then you believe the christian
thing which is i don't
see how you can do that and people will
be vocal about that and uh
and make fun of you and feel they need
to comment or lash out
on the things that they disagree with it
ain't just the christians guys
it's the new agers it's the indigenous
followers they have a way of uh of
lashing out as well
so it works both ways and you got to
know that so
putting people in these these box boxes
hurts people um but that's what we do we
all do it and we try to break out of
those boxes
phyllis says can someone tell me what
exactly
is a christian mystic um
i can give you my definition but let's
just go um
let's just go to the definition
just so you would know well i don't know
if there's actually a
christian mystic definition but the
definition of a mystic and you'll find
that um
a mystic is a person who seeks by
contemplation
and self-surrender to obtain unity
with or absorption into the deity or the
absolute as
what i would call god or the all
consciousness
um or who believes in the spiritual
apprehension of truths that are beyond
the intellect
so someone who believes in in in deep
eternal truths that resonate and go far
beyond
what you can see touch taste or really
understand and we come into notions
of that through contemplation that's a
mystic
and so i guess a christian mystic would
be someone who approaches that from
a christian perspective and this is even
from
saint a definition from saint john of
the cross so even that
mystical definition is from a christian
and you'll find out the more study that
you do that the early christians were
all mystics
that they were all christian mystics and
and they they believed in this spiritual
essence
and uh and the the very re this
oneness with with christ or with god
through christ
is a mystical experience listen these
people were talking to angels they were
traveling
back and forth from heaven to earth
through the trance state they were
leaving their body
um they were doing all types of things
and where that ties in for me to be more
inclusive is that we look into the old
testament and we see a lot of
of different practices that they were
doing we see the prophet
prophets were laying on their side you
know and they were commanded to just
to sleep on their side for a certain
amount of days and they were fasting and
they were doing these indigenous
rites and practices that were really
a universal initiation
into the secrets into the mysteries of
heaven
and again we mentioned that today on the
podcast
which order do i get involved with all
of us myself included
starts looking up these orders are they
around me is there an
order of rosicrucians around me can i be
a christian
are they christians what about masonry
there's people who are like
joining masons because they think
they're gonna find a camaraderie of
people who are into the mysteries
and and that they can study and they can
be uh inducted into but i tell you that
we are all inducted into an ancient
order
a a universal order of of the mysteries
and
even i like the term invisible college
we're going through
school this when you understand that
this earth this this realm is a school
well you're learning you're you're
trying things out you're being tested
you're remembering
and you're being quizzed so to
understand that
we are all already in that school
together
and and it has nothing to do with a
physical order or physical
representation
um now there are people who you know
they've given their life over to that to
study in those truths and to embody it
and to teach it
and that's where you get esoteric orders
and stuff from but you'll find just like
betty and just like myself
to to find one group or one
people that you want to learn under or
learn from it's it's hard
it's hard because you because when
you're open and you you see
you start to learn you start to see see
that everybody has a piece of it
you know everybody has a piece true
seeker has a piece of it
so little piece is a piece you know gil
hodges and kingdom talks they have a
piece
john crowder has a piece you know manly
p hall had a piece
huge piece um but everybody has a piece
of that truth and it's
up to you to be able to see what that is
and see
you know what what you know where that
stands in in your life and be able to
honor and acknowledge that life that
that
that peace even the part that that you
disagree with or is not for you
even to honor that to be people of honor
men and women of honor
you know that we can see the good in
that and honor namaste
the light in me bows to the light within
you man
i am another you you another me we're
all reflections of each other
and the things that i don't like about
you are really the things that i don't
like about myself
or you have a little bit too much
freedom
that i haven't been able to give myself
because of my religious upbringing
because of the things that i've i
believe or i
agree with so you have a lot of that
going on too so
god you know nature people everything's
teaching us
we're being taught the holy spirit is
your teacher
it is a a sacred spirit is your teacher
the word holy just take the
let's change the name say the word holy
means sacred
let's start calling it a sacred spirit
i'm led by an
ancient sacred spirit from god
it's holy it is beautiful it is divine
it is separate
and to in that radiation speaks to to
all
creation and it's in all life it is
in the breath it is the spirit it is the
very thing that animates us and gives us
life
but once you become cognitive of that
and conscious of that you understand
that you can honor it
in all things and in in all people
that's my that's my take that's my
experience that's where i come from
um look at some of these comments here
um
phyllis says so basically not having any
limiting beliefs be open to what god has
for you thank you
yep that's exactly it um whatever
those limiting beliefs are to be able to
identify them and understand why they
limit you
and and maybe that maybe it's a safety
mechanism you know maybe it's you've
been hurt you've been abused you've been
lied to
you've been taken advantage of so you
create these limiting beliefs
uh and it's to serve you as your ego
trying to save you so
uh lester sarah says communi uh
communication with the creator
it's in the birds and trees yep
yeah that's what the scripture says that
if you listen to the birds if you listen
to the wind it'll teach you
um the water the spirits the animals
like
everything all things carry that sacred
breath
and are part of that sacred flame and
that's what the mystics understood it
was through contemplation it was through
prayer
and it was through devotion that they
went deeper into that
um martin says
my opinion a christian mystic is someone
who is open to experiencing the universe
across multiple senses but keeps jesus
as the key foundation source
yep i would agree with that jesus is my
my rock and my foundation it is my
initiation my my welcome in into
um to life really um and so
to abandon that or to to leave that
would be silly
um and many people have and many people
do i'll
you know it's i could never abandon that
that would be
that would be silly but understanding
and for and i would say also too
that i would say for the christian
mystic um
is understanding that
jesus is more than is is more and was
more than just a another person
right it's the whether you want some
would say deity of jesus or he was
special there was something different
about
his life uh who he was before he came
here many would say god in the flesh
some would say
uh anointed i would say that the the the
son of god
who was um the first born among many
brethren
right so he just wasn't a person who
attained christ hood but he was
the christ he was the epitome of
christ's consciousness it was him
he was there is no christ without jesus
christ
so there's something special about him
of who we did he was perfect
blameless sinless he kept the law
perfectly and so
he was different we've all messed up
we've everyone else has broke broken the
law but he was
the the spotless lamb of god that took
away the sins of the entire world
and and now that revelation is deep and
and how far does that go and of the
cleansing your mind of
of of of your consciousness and your
conscience cleansing your conscience
so that you can stand in right standing
before god
that you wouldn't have any condemnation
you wouldn't have
anything that would that would stand in
the way between you
and your creator that's the born-again
experience and so
he walked that out and and he be he who
knew no sin
became sin jesus became sin and defeated
death so this notion of of death and
going into the the next life he defeated
it
he took he took the sting of death away
of something that we had to fear
something that that was inevitable he
took it away
so that we could step into eternal life
is what the scripture says
and he he showed us how to do that not
to just do that when you die
but to do that here and now
to do that here now how to step into
life more abundantly
how to how to get he didn't die so that
you can get into heaven
he died so he can get heaven into you at
the holy spirit the teacher would come
after christ
and lead you and teach you and
fellowship with you and lead you into
all
all truth it would be patient with you
it would be loving with you
and it would be personal with you and
that's the holy spirit
um and that's the person of jesus you
know and so this ancient he's still here
he defeated death they they didn't just
kill him so many prophets come and they
die and
he he defeated death and he proved that
by his resurrection on the third day
rose again and he stood they killed him
they literally stuck a
a they crucified him on the cross and he
stuck a spear
between his ribs and pierced his heart
to make sure that he was dead
he died of his asphyxiation on the cross
they killed him
for you he took upon the sins of mankind
that through him there would be no
condemnation
so why not why not believe that why not
apply that
to your life and the way that you see
people in the same grace that
that christ has shown us we show other
people we've made it our duty
we've made it our life's goal to do that
to show that same grace that was shown
to us to other to others
yeah but this yeah but that listen it's
the greatest story ever told there's a
reason why that book and that story is
universal but it stands the test of time
it is still here today and uh and many
of these other traditions are gone yes
because of christianity and because of
this and and there was a war against it
sure
but if you can give me structure if you
can
show me in any of these other religions
like and so my hats are off to them like
if you can find god and listen
but most of the stuff that we try to
look back to it's gone it's lost
it died so we still have the scriptures
we do have texts that were taken out
and we have fellowship we have the
ancient practice you have praying you
have
fasting speaking in tongues camaraderie
things to do letters and
so it's just amazing to to be to still
have that and it has
stood the test of time and it will and
even if it divide
all bibles were destroyed and they got
out of here that story would happen
again
spirit of truth would find a way to to
mention
you and to to reach out to you and um
to change your life it is the hero's
journey and and it's even the heavens
declare the glory of god
this story of what jesus did was written
in the stars
before the foundations of the world
it was written in the stars it was
written in the cosmos
that's why the mystics or the magi were
the first ones to welcome the birth of
the messiah
because they read the stars they
understood the stories that were
happening in the stars
and it was a story of the messiah who
would come here and save his people from
their sins
he would save his people from their
oppression and and that's why
i i preached that and i still believe
that because i was one of those people
so valerie says why do people always
need
labels that's why i like the song i am i
am
everything we are everything people ask
me what i believe and i say everything
exactly i'm with you they said what do
you believe man what necessarily do you
believe i say
my question is about what what do you
believe
about what about jesus
okay let's get specific you got to make
people get specific guys don't let them
just throw
a blanket statement or you're you're a
new ager you're a christian
what is it what do you think a christian
is no i'm not that
i'm not what you just said no no i don't
believe any of that so make people get
get specific when they ask you questions
or they try to generalize you
uh so she says people ask me what i
believe and i say
everything and they look at me like i'm
crazy
and i just wonder why they don't not to
to practice all beliefs but i do believe
that they exist christ happens to be the
god for me and i see him and everything
exactly me too and again with any
tradition
like listen if it's good if it's helping
people like
let's hang on to it even the christian
stuff the stuff that
listen has been detrimental that has
been abusive and abrasive and
and demonic and negative get rid of that
stuff
get ready i don't want it keep it i'm
not touching your disgusting judgments
i'll rise above it
listen get rid of it so yeah we
you know a perfect religion would be
something that would have all of the the
beautiful practices from every religion
but but from what i've studied you don't
even have to go to every religion
you have to go to every religion to to
get a little bit more
context on things that the bible is
saying i'll tell you that because the
bible doesn't specialize in breath work
the bible doesn't specialize in the
trance state they talk about people who
who practice the trance state and
because of their practices
this happened this happened people who
fasted that doesn't tell you how to fast
it doesn't tell you
different types of fast now through
reading we get some ideas
but you have to go talk to a people who
have given their life over the fasting
there's different types there's
different things so the bible doesn't
specialize in any of that
but but i will say that the bible
mentions almost everything almost
everything
in some shape or form when it comes to
the mystical path
the bible stands the test of time and it
is full of
of all of these things of lester sarah
says separation is a lie
i think the bible is full of ideas about
oneness
because yes separation is a lie the
bible is full about
uh you know ideas of of spiritual
ecstasy and again the trance state
leaving your body
communing with angels uh ridding
yourselves of
of demons and even what happens to a
demon when it leaves your body or leaves
your psyche
you know and so they're so so beautiful
and so ancient
at the same time so you don't have to go
out to to know that those things in or
in the bible but
to go deeper you know you you really do
have to um
to venture out because you're going to
get these people who were pra who were
tapped into their
god gift given giftings and abilities
they prophesying speaking in tongues
um you know words of knowledge words of
wisdom being able to see in the spirit
hearing the spirit
smell in the spirit like so many
different things and the bible really
doesn't teach you much now it does give
you some etiquette
but there is there are no practices and
try this and do this and
here's how you get sharper the bible
does say that the spirit of the prophet
is subject unto the prophet so you got
to get with a prophet
or somebody who is operating in those
giftings to teach you
and how you learn not by not even by
reading but by doing
you read you learn by doing and uh
and we you know for many people that's
few and far between
so you may have to look into some
something else
the beautiful thing i will say is that
that there are a lot of christians who
still hold on to that foundation in
christ
who have done the journeys who have gone
here and went there and it can come
back with uh some experiences or some
expressions
and and and really some how to's
on a lot of this stuff that are not
biblical got to tell you
most of them are not they may have been
mentioned somewhat a little bit here but
it was done through something that they
that the spirit showed them
or they learned from eastern mysticism
or a mystery school
or whatever that's just what it is and
um
you know everything else is just kind of
reading into it but uh but even for you
just
you know i would say for the christian
who begins to to look out just
guard your faith man guard your heart
that like
it is the bible says it is impossible
for those who have been touched and
illuminated with that light of christ
who have had that experience to to even
abandon that
i have never abandoned it for me it's
more it gets bigger and it's more
inclusive
it means more to me now and i can see it
in more things than just
here so
the christian walk is the mystical walk
for sure and i think that the
even calling myself a christian mystic
it just opens up for
the things that you don't like or you
don't agree with as me being a christian
well maybe that's the mystic side of me
i didn't
tell you i was a christian i'm a
christian mystic it's a little bit
different
we believe in some other things we're
more open and we see god in more things
than just
this or that
so there's a lot of stuff in there it's
the most magical book on the planet the
most powerful book that ever existed is
is the scriptures i'll tell you that
god will speak to to your heart through
it for sure
teaching training exhortation
you know rebuke all of that in there
and that's where it gets in where the
spirit is teaching you
again you need not any man to teach you
the spirit will teach you
and those lessons and those things
change over time they get more deeper to
get more involved you begin to study and
learn more
life experience you learn more
you know i learned you know
not to gossip not by reading it in
scripture saying don't do it you think
it'd be that easy
but i learned about not gossiping by
having people gossip about me
oh and see how that feels and being in
like even the other day i was at and i
was just reminded because there's
we have some neighbors who did a bible
study and i go over there from time to
time
and um they do a bible study i was over
there last week
and uh and this one guy and you know
god bless his heart but he was saying he
was on the job site and
he met a flat earther who was just
telling them all this stuff the earth is
flat you've been lied to and telling
this and that and this that
and he believes this man can you believe
that he believes this
can you believe that that guy said that
man the stars aren't real man
and he just kept going on i was just
kind of sitting there
and i was like yeah i interview those
people i know what they
i know so i have a grace for them but
then after a moment hit me it's like hey
man that's how christians talk about you
there like those conversations at the
table of people laughing and
mentioning you and true sega posted this
and
you know early on that you know that
effect
affected me and you know but now it's
just i know it comes with the territory
and stuff and i see why like you people
who
don't understand and you have to laugh
it's but that just
it was just a moment of epiphany like
yeah these people were doing that to you
like so you don't join in
on the scoffing and ridicule about that
guy either you know
yeah man's valid flight earth is a weird
dude i interview them on my podcast
they're crazy man
nope i just like yep it was sobering
okay this is what's happened about you
like i'm in in a
i'm in a city i'm in a uh a conversation
where they could have been talking about
me or my podcast or my guest you know
and um so it's it is what it is so
you know there's a couple things that um
that jesus
warns about that are that are he even
talks about you're in danger of hell
fire
uh i'm not thinking that he means
eternal damnation and you're burning
hell for all eternity
but i think that here you're bringing
this fire you're bringing this
condemnation upon yourself when you
when you operate in these sins and one
of the big things that he didn't play
with
was was gossip and backbiting and jesus
was big on that to be careful
man why because your words carry weight
your words are magic you're speaking
blessings and curses out of the same
mouth
so when it comes to scoffing and
backbiting and gossip
be careful because you will give an
account
on every idle word that comes out of
your mouth
i don't think well maybe if in the great
white throne of judgment on the other
side whatever maybe
you do a life review there but i'm
talking about here
today as you speak those things and they
begin to come back you have you ever
back to you have you ever you know
gossiped or said anything about somebody
and you didn't want them to know
and that person says hey man so-and-so
told me that you said this about me is
like dang
i didn't think they was going to tell
you oh my god i got you and you have
you're
confronted with that yeah you're going
to give an account
for every idle word that you've said
in in this life because what you put out
comes back to you
you are creating when you speak
abracadabra i bless what i speak
everything that i say i'm creating
so let's let's create a beautiful let's
create a beautiful life let's create
uh beautiful timelines and bring into
our our existence
so man i hope that that blesses you guys
um
i enjoyed hanging out nobody has any
more questions i'll go ahead and end the
stream
uh really good talk man i really i
really enjoyed speaking with
with betty and uh it was really good so
make sure you guys check out her work
for sure
um i will say if you guys aren't uh
patrons if you're not supporting
you're missing out because there's a
whole bunch of really cool stuff there
listen all the new music that i'm
working on for white magic is there
um where am i at on the album i am
waiting for a couple collabs there's a
couple features that i have out that i'm
waiting to get back i wanted to get some
other names
and some other flavor on the album so
i've been waiting patiently
from some of these people months even so
we'll see what happens hopefully within
the next couple days i just heard back
from illuminati congo who's doing a
couple songs with me that
he's just feat uh he's finished his and
he just gotta bounce them down
export them and get them to me so he'll
be on the album and that's what i'm
waiting on i'm waiting on these features
but
the stuff that is already done it's over
on the patreon
um the thursday night school of the
mystics the hangouts the prayer sessions
that we do
the meditation which is the community
aspect to what we're building here
discord privileges
uh you get access to a lot a little goes
a long way
i will say that um a little goes a long
way so thank you guys for
for believing in my work and all the
support
it really means the world so with that
i'm gonna say peace and shalom man thank
you guys for hanging out see all your
beautiful comments
and we'll do this again uh thursday guys
peace and blessings thanks so much
well that does it for this episode folks
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